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Old 01-24-2009, 05:34 PM    (permalink
GET LOOSE
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The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to believe we're going to move around on draft day early. If you look at our big needs right now (S, ILB, WR, to an extent CB, DE, NT, and QB fits in somewhere as well) we could have a hard time finding a good value at 17. Maualuga, Crabtree, Maclin, Malcolm Jenkins, Raji, Stafford, and Sanchez could all very realistically be gone at 17 and odds are we're only going to be focused on a couple of guys. If they are guys like Rashad Johnson, Delmas, maybe Sintim or Laurinaitis, Nicks, Heyward-Bey, any of the tier 2 corners, Tyson Jackson, and Freeman are in all likelihood reaches at 17. So unless one of the first few guys mentioned slips and we get lucky we'll probably have to trade down (and could be in a position to ahead of the Bears if somebody wants to grab an OL or something), and if one of those first few is "our guy" we'll probably have to move up to secure him. For whatever reason I just can't see us sticking at our spot this year.
I dont mind trading down as long its 2 draft a player who is a playmaker and can blow the game open because besides Washington we really dont have a guy like that. Coles is past his prime and Cotch is more of a possesion reciver that will be solid every game.
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Old 01-24-2009, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to believe we're going to move around on draft day early. If you look at our big needs right now (S, ILB, WR, to an extent CB, DE, NT, and QB fits in somewhere as well) we could have a hard time finding a good value at 17. Maualuga, Crabtree, Maclin, Malcolm Jenkins, Raji, Stafford, and Sanchez could all very realistically be gone at 17 and odds are we're only going to be focused on a couple of guys. If they are guys like Rashad Johnson, Delmas, maybe Sintim or Laurinaitis, Nicks, Heyward-Bey, any of the tier 2 corners, Tyson Jackson, and Freeman are in all likelihood reaches at 17. So unless one of the first few guys mentioned slips and we get lucky we'll probably have to trade down (and could be in a position to ahead of the Bears if somebody wants to grab an OL or something), and if one of those first few is "our guy" we'll probably have to move up to secure him. For whatever reason I just can't see us sticking at our spot this year.

I think the Jets are going to move too, but probably not for the same reasons as you.

I do think one of Jeremy Maclin, William Moore, James Laurinitis, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Vontae Davis or Tyson Jackson will be there are the Jets would be inclined to take them (even if I'm not thrilled with Jackson or Davis as the pick).

However, the Jets have been notorious for trading up the past few years to get who they want early on. So the Jets could very well use a third or a fourth to trade up in the first round if there is something they're targeting. Especially since the last time the Jets drafted an impact player in the third round was Kareem McKenzie in 2001.
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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I think the Jets are going to move too, but probably not for the same reasons as you.

I do think one of Jeremy Maclin, William Moore, James Laurinitis, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Vontae Davis or Tyson Jackson will be there are the Jets would be inclined to take them (even if I'm not thrilled with Jackson or Davis as the pick).

However, the Jets have been notorious for trading up the past few years to get who they want early on. So the Jets could very well use a third or a fourth to trade up in the first round if there is something they're targeting. Especially since the last time the Jets drafted an impact player in the third round was Kareem McKenzie in 2001.
I'll be honest I wouldn't be incredibly thrilled with Heyward-Bey or Laurinaitis either (though if the staff thinks JL can do it then I'll be alright with it I guess) because of value and fit, and William Moore I don't think presents the value either. So basically of that list the only guy I'd be really happy with is Maclin, and I'm afraid he's going to be gone.
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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I think considering that there's about 3 or 4 teams ahead of us that seem to have almost the exact same needs as us, I feel like we're going to trade up in the 2nd round since that obviously would be less expensive than going up in the 1st. And we'd have to count on a stud dropping down in the 1st because otherwise, it's really hard to trade down. I don't know. We'll see.
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Old 01-24-2009, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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I think considering that there's about 3 or 4 teams ahead of us that seem to have almost the exact same needs as us, I feel like we're going to trade up in the 2nd round since that obviously would be less expensive than going up in the 1st. And we'd have to count on a stud dropping down in the 1st because otherwise, it's really hard to trade down. I don't know. We'll see.
It should be interesting to see which direction we go in. For the first time in a couple years I have no idea what player or position we will be targeting. We have made good picks in the middle and end of the 1st round, so i'm not anticipating anything differently.

It's also a fairly deep draft overall, especially with OTs, so hopefully teams will go with Oline first and have someone we need fall to us.


Additionally, Gholsten is like another first rounder this year, in that I am probably anticipating seeing him play more than anyone we draft.
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Old 01-24-2009, 10:46 PM    (permalink
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXDSP...eature=related

That's just crazy.
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Old 01-25-2009, 12:23 AM    (permalink
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I think considering that there's about 3 or 4 teams ahead of us that seem to have almost the exact same needs as us, I feel like we're going to trade up in the 2nd round since that obviously would be less expensive than going up in the 1st. And we'd have to count on a stud dropping down in the 1st because otherwise, it's really hard to trade down. I don't know. We'll see.
I think the only way we'd have a shot at trading down is if teams ahead of us skip out on other needs to take skill guys that we would want to draft, and a top OL (Oher maybe?) slips down to our spot. In that case I could see some team in the late first (more than a couple there could use a good tackle) try to leapfrog ahead of the Bears. Or perhaps if a good end slips, though I don't see as many late first teams needing one. Wells/Moreno are really the only other candidates I could see, or if some pure 4-3 guy that we won't have an interest in drops down to our spot.
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Old 01-25-2009, 12:39 AM    (permalink
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I would not be incredibly opposed to Laurinaitis. He may be a better fit for the 4-3, but with his intelligence and speed, he could be a good fit next to Harris if he has good coverage skills. I actually don't know how his coverage skills are, if someone could tell me that would be great because all year I've noticed how many times Harris got beaten in coverage.

Also, based on his stock I'm not sure it would be good value to take him at 17.
Hands down, Laurinaitis is the best coverage linebacker in this draft. There's no question about that. His instincts are phenomenal. I've seen him 20-30 yards down field with receivers. Great hands as well, so he can be counted on to make the interception. He'd actually be a very good fit next to Harris. I think though, the issue with him is that he's going to need some upper body strength. A lot of people say he's the most "finished" of all the linebackers, but I really don't think so. I think that he could be the safest pick out of them, but if he was able to add a considerable amount of upper body strength, you'd see a whole hell of a lot more solo tackles by him.
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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I honestly don't know who I want in the first round. I don't even know what position we should address. Arguments can be made for corner, safety, wide receiver, defensive end, running back, and even quarterback if someone falls to us. The only thing I do know is the only QB I want is Sanchez . I think he is a much better prospect than Leinart coming out and taking him would be ok with me.

here's some random thoughts on who I want in the lower rounds.

I love RB Andre Brown, and if we can get him in the third round I would be so pumped. He is very physical runner who did not get as many touches as he should have at North Carolina State, but I think he can be a very productive back after Jones is done with the Jets. I have watched a bunch of NC State games over the years, as I love the ACC (UNC is my favorite team), and I have always liked Brown's running style. He just has a toughness factor to him that would complement Leon perfectly.

DT Ron Brace in the third or fourth, as he would hopefully be able to give Jenkins a break and I think would be an upgrade over Pouha. I hate Pouha I think he is the biggest P***y in the world. He has all the size in the world and I see him get driven downfield every time he is in. He is terrible and I want him gone or at least a replacement so he never has to touch the field.

DE Jarron Gilbert, who is in the video above, is also an intriguing prospect. I don't know if we would invest in another OLB-DE rusher but he ha great physical tools. I saw a thread on him in the 2009 Draft Forum and he looks like the real deal.

WR Brooks Foster in the fourth or fifth. I have followed UNC football for as long as I can remember and this kid has a great athleticism and is also very strong. He would be a developmental guy, as I don't think he could contribute right away, but if we can get him with our second 4th rounder I would be happy.

Another from UNC who I like is WR Brandon Tate. He never did much as a receiver until his senior year when he exploded until a torn ACL ended his season. If he can come back 100%, then I would definitely take him in the fourth. He can stretch the field, has good hands, and is amazing after the catch. This is a guy who was a prolific return man and owns several NCAA return records. He just has a knack for big-plays and is someone to watch on draft day

What other late round (and by that I mean past 1-2 rounds) prospects do you guys like?
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BroadwayJoe10 View Post
It should be interesting to see which direction we go in. For the first time in a couple years I have no idea what player or position we will be targeting. We have made good picks in the middle and end of the 1st round, so i'm not anticipating anything differently.

It's also a fairly deep draft overall, especially with OTs, so hopefully teams will go with Oline first and have someone we need fall to us.


Additionally, Gholsten is like another first rounder this year, in that I am probably anticipating seeing him play more than anyone we draft.

Lol same here I predicted Gholston last year and Revis the year before but this year we have a lot of choices and I wouldnt be upset with any of them. trading up is not a bad idea and we can go after a WR, LB, HB, S or CB and they all would make sense.
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by juiceman32 View Post
I honestly don't know who I want in the first round. I don't even know what position we should address. Arguments can be made for corner, safety, wide receiver, defensive end, running back, and even quarterback if someone falls to us. The only thing I do know is the only QB I want is Sanchez . I think he is a much better prospect than Leinart coming out and taking him would be ok with me.

here's some random thoughts on who I want in the lower rounds.

I love RB Andre Brown, and if we can get him in the third round I would be so pumped. He is very physical runner who did not get as many touches as he should have at North Carolina State, but I think he can be a very productive back after Jones is done with the Jets. I have watched a bunch of NC State games over the years, as I love the ACC (UNC is my favorite team), and I have always liked Brown's running style. He just has a toughness factor to him that would complement Leon perfectly.

DT Ron Brace in the third or fourth, as he would hopefully be able to give Jenkins a break and I think would be an upgrade over Pouha. I hate Pouha I think he is the biggest P***y in the world. He has all the size in the world and I see him get driven downfield every time he is in. He is terrible and I want him gone or at least a replacement so he never has to touch the field.

DE Jarron Gilbert, who is in the video above, is also an intriguing prospect. I don't know if we would invest in another OLB-DE rusher but he ha great physical tools. I saw a thread on him in the 2009 Draft Forum and he looks like the real deal.

WR Brooks Foster in the fourth or fifth. I have followed UNC football for as long as I can remember and this kid has a great athleticism and is also very strong. He would be a developmental guy, as I don't think he could contribute right away, but if we can get him with our second 4th rounder I would be happy.

Another from UNC who I like is WR Brandon Tate. He never did much as a receiver until his senior year when he exploded until a torn ACL ended his season. If he can come back 100%, then I would definitely take him in the fourth. He can stretch the field, has good hands, and is amazing after the catch. This is a guy who was a prolific return man and owns several NCAA return records. He just has a knack for big-plays and is someone to watch on draft day

What other late round (and by that I mean past 1-2 rounds) prospects do you guys like?
The only UNC receiver I'd want is Nicks. Haha.

But uh... I like Gilbert, I like Brown, and I like Rashad Jennings. I also like Quinn Johnson and Chip Vaughn, as well as Quan Cosby and Jaison Williams. Victor Butler, Jason Williams, Jarius Byrd, and Worrell Williams are interesting as well. If Mike Mickens or Shonn Greene dropped I'd have interest in them also.
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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possible players I would like to draft

HB) Bennie, Shonn Green, Rashad Jennings and my boy PJ Hill
WR) Crabtree, Maclin, Britt
DE) T.Jackson, Evander Hood and Sen'Derrick Marks could move from DT
Ilb) Rey, Laurinaitis, Jasper Brinkley, Worrell Williams
CB) Jenkins, Vontae Davis, Sean Smith (could move him to safty as well)
S) William Moore, Rashad Johnson, Patrick Chung, Nic Harris

Im not sure of all our draft picks so if someone could tell me all of them that would be great
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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The only UNC receiver I'd want is Nicks. Haha.

But uh... I like Gilbert, I like Brown, and I like Rashad Jennings. I also like Quinn Johnson and Chip Vaughn, as well as Quan Cosby and Jaison Williams. Victor Butler, Jason Williams, Jarius Byrd, and Worrell Williams are interesting as well. If Mike Mickens or Shonn Greene dropped I'd have interest in them also.
I'm a big fan of Gilbert, Brown, Jennings, Vaughn, and Worrell Williams, and Quan Cosby intrigues me also. Gilbert, Brown, and especially Vaughn are probably my favorites of that group. I also think Roy Miller is an interesting mid-round potential NT although he's a little light but has good technique for it, DeMonte Boldin is interesting as an end in the later rounds, Tiquan Underwood and Mike Wallace at WR, and I wouldn't mind a punter either to solidify the position.
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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to me ramses barden is an interesting prospect to bring in late in the draft...i dont konw much about him, but we still dont have a real great red zone reciever, im hoping keller can be that, but bardens got thr size and leaping ability to be a trheat there...dont get me wrong, hes not the gamebreaking recieer we need, but hes a guy that we could use just as a red zone or short yardagge guy late in the draft
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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I'm a big fan of Gilbert, Brown, Jennings, Vaughn, and Worrell Williams, and Quan Cosby intrigues me also. Gilbert, Brown, and especially Vaughn are probably my favorites of that group. I also think Roy Miller is an interesting mid-round potential NT although he's a little light but has good technique for it, DeMonte Boldin is interesting as an end in the later rounds, Tiquan Underwood and Mike Wallace at WR, and I wouldn't mind a punter either to solidify the position.
I like some of the DL you talked about, but I don't know about the WRs. Neither of those guys are particularly big and we already have Stuckey and Clowney.
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by thetedginnshow View Post
I like some of the DL you talked about, but I don't know about the WRs. Neither of those guys are particularly big and we already have Stuckey and Clowney.
Well Underwood isn't exactly bulky but he is around 6'2, quite fast and he's very good after the catch. Wallace is probably a little too similar to Clowney to make sense but I still think we desperately need speed at the position. Height would be nice too, I guess. Forgot to mention Ramses Barden if the value's right, I'm not nearly sold on him but he really intrigues me. More wideouts I had forgotten but really think are interesting that bring height into play are Robiskie, Demetrius Byrd, Marko Mitchell, and Darius Passmore. Big fan of Dillard as well though I'm not so sure he brings height or speed to the offense, but I think he'll find success at the next level also.
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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As much as I would love to have a Rutgers guy, a guy like Underwood is no what we need. We have 3-4 guys that could potentially be good slot guys and that is exactly what Underwood is. I am of the belief that if we take a WR it should either be a blue chipper or not at all. We have a few guys that show potential, what we need is a straight up Number 1 with size/speed/yac/jump ball ability/etc. I know its tough to find, but we can't be like the Titans and keep trying to take guys late hoping they become a top flight guy down the road.
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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I agree that what we need in our WR core is a top-flight guy. I'm not exactly saying I'd be a proponent of drafting a guy in the mid-rounds, but if we do those are the guys I'd be interested in looking at.
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Yea take a WR 1st or 2nd round if not then we shouldnt draft 1 at all. But if we dont trade up in the 1st or 2nd we wont get anyone that will be a good #1 or 2 in the nfl. Maclin and Crabtree will be gone by 17 and by our 2nd choice DHB should be gone
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GET LOOSE View Post
Yea take a WR 1st or 2nd round if not then we shouldnt draft 1 at all. But if we dont trade up in the 1st or 2nd we wont get anyone that will be a good #1 or 2 in the nfl. Maclin and Crabtree will be gone by 17 and by our 2nd choice DHB should be gone
I think the guys that have the potential to be a #1 are
Crabtree
DHB
Maclin
Britt

Obviously Crabtree is gone and we aren't gonna trade up nor would I want to. DHB worries me because his production isn't nearly as good as his athleticism which worries me. Maclin has the production and definitely has speed. However, he is only a red shirt sophomore which may mean he will need longer to be productive and he always looked a bit frail to me. As for Britt, my concerns are that he is from Rutgers and I am blinded by all the amazing things he did for the school. However, seeing him on a regular basis makes me believe that he could be a #1. He obviously has the size, he has shown the speed and YAC and he has shown toughness on jumpballs. Granted he did it in a less than stellar conference, but he showed that he has all the tools necessary.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by josh07039 View Post
As much as I would love to have a Rutgers guy, a guy like Underwood is no what we need. We have 3-4 guys that could potentially be good slot guys and that is exactly what Underwood is. I am of the belief that if we take a WR it should either be a blue chipper or not at all. We have a few guys that show potential, what we need is a straight up Number 1 with size/speed/yac/jump ball ability/etc. I know its tough to find, but we can't be like the Titans and keep trying to take guys late hoping they become a top flight guy down the road.
i defintely agree about the WR...dont think we need a late round slot guy cuz thats what stuckey and clowney are, unless someone with a lot of potential slips...i think if were filling a guy who we think could be a starting WR soon for us, has to be in the 1st 2 rounds...wouldnt mind taking a redzone guy like ramses barden late though
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Old 01-26-2009, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by josh07039 View Post
I think the guys that have the potential to be a #1 are
Crabtree
DHB
Maclin
Britt

Obviously Crabtree is gone and we aren't gonna trade up nor would I want to. DHB worries me because his production isn't nearly as good as his athleticism which worries me. Maclin has the production and definitely has speed. However, he is only a red shirt sophomore which may mean he will need longer to be productive and he always looked a bit frail to me. As for Britt, my concerns are that he is from Rutgers and I am blinded by all the amazing things he did for the school. However, seeing him on a regular basis makes me believe that he could be a #1. He obviously has the size, he has shown the speed and YAC and he has shown toughness on jumpballs. Granted he did it in a less than stellar conference, but he showed that he has all the tools necessary.
Your concerns are warranted to an extent. He didn't put up the numbers you would from someone with his talent, but he was quite handicapped. He played in a run-oriented offensive scheme and with a QB that made Reggie Ball look like Mark Sanchez. Yet, he still managed to put up numbers to Calvin Johnson; who was also in a pretty crappy position.


DHB - 138 receptions, 2,089, 13
CJ- 178 Receptions, 2,927 yds and 28 tds


CJ was a 6'5 235 lb freak who ran a 4.3ish 40, but didn't completely dominate the league like someone would expect. What people were going on was his body control, great hands etc. IE. measurables.

DHB is 6'3 205 lbs with blazing speed, possibly sub 4.3 40, and incredible leaping ability. He has shown to not only be a deep threat, but runs good crossing routes, can catch in traffic.


While he is not the prospect that CJ was, he does have decent fairly solid production and the measurables to warrant the pick. I personally believe that he would be a perfect pick for us if we do decide to go that route.
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Old 01-27-2009, 12:48 AM    (permalink
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Saw you made the same post on JN lol. I'm inclined to agree...to an extent. Calvin's basically got DHB's numbers half again in every statistical category. They look a lot more similar than they actually are because the catches are in the 100's and the yards are in the 2000's.

I get the point and do agree production isn't everything and in Heyward-Bey's case the offense and quarterback play really hurt him. But why didn't they manage to get him the ball more? It's not like he was the ONLY weapon on that offense, just the best one. Clemson game for example where he takes that reverse for 76 and gets run down at the 4 by Hamlin. It's the third quarter and that's his first touch of the game. I've got to believe they could have done a better job getting him the ball if it were not for some weaknesses.

His hands for instance are solid but could be a little better IMO, and he's not the kind of guy that really likes contact. He can take good angles running after the catch but really has no shiftiness and basically goes down on contact.

That said his measurables are silly, he's a great fit for what we need for this offense, and he could easily develop into an elite #1 in the right situation. If we start to run the rock and have some guys to take pressure off of him...maybe this could be the right situation. Plus I supposedly worked with his dad this past summer so that'd make it kind of cool to have him on the Jets...anyway I go back and forth on him, could end up being great or not so much he absolutely has some concerns. Not the kind of guy I'm going to be screaming TAKE DHB if he's on the board at 17 come draft day but I also will absolutely find a way to like the pick if we make it.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:45 AM    (permalink
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Well Heyward-Bey doesn't have the hands CJ does, he's obviously not as big, and he can't jump as high, so at that point, it already makes it hard to compare. I mean, just saying he'll be a receiver but not as good as Calvin is kind of an obvious statement to begin with.

But about the QBs... well, Maryland's were much better. They really weren't anymore run-oriented than Ga Tech (who was actually very run-oriented, predicated more on ball control and defense), and at least the Terps QBs completed half of their passes. If you remember Ball, you remember one of the worst QBs to ever play the position.

And a major difference between DHB and CJ is that CJ improved from his Freshman year to his Junior year. Nevermind that he had the lesser QB and he was one of the nation's most highly touted players by his Junior year, but his numbers actually shot up. DHB actually only gained in the rushing department. CJ saw a decent amount of double teams as well, which I don't remember all too much with DHB (but I could be wrong). And he was never much of a big game performer.

I don't know. There's a lot I don't like about DHB, originating from the fact that he went to Maryland.
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Old 01-27-2009, 03:58 AM    (permalink
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Oh and because I'll start to pimp him in full force in about a month or so...

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