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Old 03-02-2009, 10:25 AM    (permalink
woodnick
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
Who's to say Cassel is that much safer than Stafford. Maybe Cassel wouldn't play as well with the Lions. If the Lions traded for Cassel they'd have to pay him a large contract and also play someone else #1 overall pick money. You could argue just taking Stafford and paying him #1 overall money is less of a risk because pick 33 won't go to another big contract. Here's are 2 reasonable scenarios

#1: Stafford
#20: Brian Cushing or some other defender
#33 William Beatty

#1: Jason Smith
#20: Brian Cushing or some other defender
#33: Traded for Cassel

I don't see how the second scenario is all that much safer. The idea of taking a LB #1 overall just seems silly to me, so I won't bother with that scenario.
What it would've been was traded for Cassell and then Cassell to Denver for Jay Cutler. As such I'd take scenario B in a heartbeat! Cutler is young and a pro bowler after 3 yrs. He still has 3 yrs under his rookie contract, which is relatively cheap, and then we could get our stud LT to protect his blindside at #1 and we'd have the flexibility to slide Backus over to LG or just cut his a**, take the cap hit and have more money for FA next yr after hopefully a 4-6 win season with Cutler throwing to CJesus. We could go all D other than #1 and 33 and really start a foundation for our team.

IMO, Cutler>>>>Stafford, especially if we got Cutler at #33 compared to Stafford at #1
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:40 AM    (permalink
Halsey
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What it would've been was traded for Cassell and then Cassell to Denver for Jay Cutler. As such I'd take scenario B in a heartbeat! Cutler is young and a pro bowler after 3 yrs. He still has 3 yrs under his rookie contract, which is relatively cheap, and then we could get our stud LT to protect his blindside at #1 and we'd have the flexibility to slide Backus over to LG or just cut his a**, take the cap hit and have more money for FA next yr after hopefully a 4-6 win season with Cutler throwing to CJesus. We could go all D other than #1 and 33 and really start a foundation for our team.

IMO, Cutler>>>>Stafford, especially if we got Cutler at #33 compared to Stafford at #1
You're simply assuming that Cutler will be better than Stafford based off the fact that Cutler has been in the NFL and had a chance to prove himself. Before he was drafted, most felt Cutler wasn't even as good as Vince Young and Matt Leinart. It's a lot easier to judge a QB after he's been in the NFL a few years.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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You're simply assuming that Cutler will be better than Stafford based off the fact that Cutler has been in the NFL and had a chance to prove himself. Before he was drafted, most felt Cutler wasn't even as good as Vince Young and Matt Leinart. It's a lot easier to judge a QB after he's been in the NFL a few years.
It is.
Stafford is riskier than Cutler.
Does this team need to take an unnecessary risk, or improve itself with less of an unknown? There is a remote chance that Stafford is Manning or Brady good... but I think there is a better chance that he is not and therefore I'll take the more known quantity in Cutler because there is also the risk that Stafford busts.

Moot point now though....that is unless Cutler pouts in Denver some more and they really do trade him. I'm betting against that scenario now though.
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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I suspect NE worked out a trade to whatever team Pioli signed with before they franchised him. It took all the risk out of paying him franchise type money if Brady returned to health. Pioli obviously believes in Cassel because he has staked his whole career on him turning out to be a solid NFL starting QB.
I really don't think Detroit really had an opportunity to sign him.
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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It is.
Stafford is riskier than Cutler.
Does this team need to take an unnecessary risk, or improve itself with less of an unknown? There is a remote chance that Stafford is Manning or Brady good... but I think there is a better chance that he is not and therefore I'll take the more known quantity in Cutler because there is also the risk that Stafford busts.

Moot point now though....that is unless Cutler pouts in Denver some more and they really do trade him. I'm betting against that scenario now though.
Risks are unavoidable. The idea that anyone the Lions take is 'safe' is a delusion. Charles Rodgers was supposed to be a sure thing. Like you said, Cutler is probably not available. If they pass on Stafford, there's no guarantee that whoever they take won't bust and that Stafford won't be a star for someone else. Good organizations accept and embrace risk instead of letting fear cloud their thinking.
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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I suspect NE worked out a trade to whatever team Pioli signed with before they franchised him. It took all the risk out of paying him franchise type money if Brady returned to health. Pioli obviously believes in Cassel because he has staked his whole career on him turning out to be a solid NFL starting QB.
I really don't think Detroit really had an opportunity to sign him.
Right. The deal I heard was that there would have been a three way trade between NE-Denver and either Detroit/Tampa Bay where Det and TB would get Culter, our 2nd round pick would go to NE, and Denver (aka Josh McDaniels) would get Cassell. So really the discussion is over Culter more realistically.

I at first rolled my eyes at a Piolo-Belichek agreement to get Cassell for an agreed price. But one of the ESPN Football guys (Mortensen or Clayton) said that there are investigations going on around this deal potentially. So yeah... I guess maybe there was a little bit of Belichek's "Good ol Boys" networking going on and maybe Detroit couldn't have gotten Cassell for a slightly better pick.
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Old 03-02-2009, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Risks are unavoidable. The idea that anyone the Lions take is 'safe' is a delusion. Charles Rodgers was supposed to be a sure thing. Like you said, Cutler is probably not available. If they pass on Stafford, there's no guarantee that whoever they take won't bust and that Stafford won't be a star for someone else. Good organizations accept and embrace risk instead of letting fear cloud their thinking.
Well, IMO, its kind of silly to argue that Cutler has as much risk as Stafford. Cutler has already been successful in the NFL, whereas Stafford has major question marks and hasnt even thrown for nfl scouts. And if we could get a #1 QB and the best LT in the draft then why not?
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Old 03-02-2009, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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Well, IMO, its kind of silly to argue that Cutler has as much risk as Stafford.
Where did I say Cutler had as much risk as Stafford?
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Old 03-02-2009, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Denver trades Cutler for anything other then the 1st pick in the draft. Even if the lions offer #20 and #33, I can't see Denver doing that since they would have no QB.
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Old 03-02-2009, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Denver trades Cutler for anything other then the 1st pick in the draft. Even if the lions offer #20 and #33, I can't see Denver doing that since they would have no QB.
The only way they were going to trade him in the first place is if they got Cassel.

If they trade him now, unless they got a QB back, they are left with Patrick Ramsey. So it would take a major B&M job by Cutler to get Denver to trade him.
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Old 03-02-2009, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Risks are unavoidable. The idea that anyone the Lions take is 'safe' is a delusion. Charles Rodgers was supposed to be a sure thing. Like you said, Cutler is probably not available. If they pass on Stafford, there's no guarantee that whoever they take won't bust and that Stafford won't be a star for someone else. Good organizations accept and embrace risk instead of letting fear cloud their thinking.
you are talikng about risks right there, and by the way chuck was not a sure thing, most people viewed Andre Johnson as the safe choice, especially after CRog failed a drug test at the combine
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Old 03-02-2009, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Denver trades Cutler for anything other then the 1st pick in the draft. Even if the lions offer #20 and #33, I can't see Denver doing that since they would have no QB.
yeah, it seems like a moot point now, the rumor with Tampa, one of them at least, was a 1st and 3rd
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