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Old 03-13-2009, 10:41 AM    (permalink
Brent
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He ruined him by...picking him?
Seriously. He would have been better off anywhere else.
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Old 03-13-2009, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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Old 03-13-2009, 11:06 AM    (permalink
Maybe Next Year Millen2
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Seriously. He would have been better off anywhere else.
Nope. Joey just stinks. He was sacked the least in 2002, 2003, and 2004 he had a 1,000 yard back and Roy. Sure he could have more pieces, but the guy didn't progress. It's up to the QB to carry the franchise on his back when you are picked 3rd overall and Joey was not a franchise QB. Sometimes you learn that out the hard way. He had Mooch too to teach him so I don't really blame the coaching. Joey is just a flat out bust anywhere he goes. Period.

Word was that Millen wanted Jammer and Old Man Ford stepped in. Mooch never liked Joey once he got here, hence Garcia in 2005.

Last edited by Maybe Next Year Millen2 : 03-13-2009 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 03-13-2009, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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Not to mention the fact that if they had made those picks, they wouldn't have been in the high position to take the next guys anyways.
That as well....
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Happy Birthday Mr. Millen!
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Haha, I got an idea, lets look back on everything and replace every pick in previous drafts with a 'best case scenario and 'knowing what we do now' approach and see how good we can make a team!! Sounds like a reasonable thing to do....

The one pick that i think was absolutely terrible that he made was Mike Williams, I didn't like that one from the get-go. The others i could see some rational for and things just didn't pan out (scheme for Harrington was probably his fault also as he never played to his strengths). Overall, he needed someone at WR to help him out, and didn't get any help from the players. Terrible GM forsure, but lets not play the 'he could have done this and got these players!!'. That is just stupid.
Actually I was talking about making the right pcik roughly around 75% of the time. The made the wrong pick again and again and again. I was also talking about what their needs were at the time and the players that I had them taking filled the needs and were best available player. Harrington was terrible and was a bad pick, at the time they were in need of a elite CB, instead they traded for Dry Bly when they could have had the best CB in the draft in Jammer. They also neglected to really work out Charles Rogers and really dig into his back ground, they would have found out that he was a bit a party guy that had character concerns going into the draft, not to mention that he was a young kid coming out off a great year, more of one or two year wonder, wehn they could have had a player that was a proven leader, producer and proven winner in Andre Johnson, a guy that went right after him.

Also they passed on Clinton Portis, twice, this is the same team that hadn't had a real RB since Barry, yet they passed on a player that was in the same boat as Johnson. A proven winner, producer and leader. Again, they passed on him for players the were square pegs trying to fit them in a round hole. They needed to take best players available instead they picked players that Millen fell in love with for whatever reason.

The Mike Williams pick was the icnig on the cake for Millen. Derrick Johnson, the best LB in the draft, and a player that not only did Millen need, but was also the BPA at their slot still decided to pass, because he thought he knew something that other teams didn't.

This isn't hindsight, this is reality of their misses and how bad they missed. Look at the Rams, they pick Damoine Lewis and the pick directly after is Marcus Stroud. The Rams take Archulata and the pick right after him is Nate CLements. That means they passed on a position they were taking anyway, or a need/BPA. The ****** it up. Its not hindsight, because I still had them taking Backus, Roy, Lehman, Rogers, Bailey, etc. All I'm saying had they done their homework better and used their scouting tools and personal instead of Matt Millens gut feeling, maybe the Lions wouldn't be tied for the worst season in the history of the game and be the laughing stock of the league.
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Happy B-Day Grandpa!
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2 View Post
Nope. Joey just stinks. He was sacked the least in 2002, 2003, and 2004 he had a 1,000 yard back and Roy. Sure he could have more pieces, but the guy didn't progress. It's up to the QB to carry the franchise on his back when you are picked 3rd overall and Joey was not a franchise QB. Sometimes you learn that out the hard way. He had Mooch too to teach him so I don't really blame the coaching. Joey is just a flat out bust anywhere he goes. Period.
That is totally ******** and you know it. You are a Lions fan like myself so you should know that Joey got rid of the ball on little 3 yard slants or dumpoffs constantly to avoid getting sacked because of the stupid system he was being taught that didn't work for him at all. The Lions offensive line was absolutely brutal and he was pressured as much as any non David Carr QB during that time span, and the run blocking was non existent during that time.

In 2002/2003 he literally had absolutely nothing supporting cast wise, and while he finally had Roy in 2004, he was still a rookie and Jones didn't get rolling until midseason. By 2005 it was too late anyway as the first 3 years just absolutely destroyed any chance he really had.
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Old 03-13-2009, 02:28 PM    (permalink
Maybe Next Year Millen2
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That is totally ******** and you know it. You are a Lions fan like myself so you should know that Joey got rid of the ball on little 3 yard slants or dumpoffs constantly to avoid getting sacked because of the stupid system he was being taught that didn't work for him at all. The Lions offensive line was absolutely brutal and he was pressured as much as any non David Carr QB during that time span, and the run blocking was non existent during that time.

In 2002/2003 he literally had absolutely nothing supporting cast wise, and while he finally had Roy in 2004, he was still a rookie and Jones didn't get rolling until midseason. By 2005 it was too late anyway as the first 3 years just absolutely destroyed any chance he really had.
It's the West Coast offense. You get rid of the ball quickly and it works if the QB gets the ball to the right receiver. I have no problem with that system if you get a QB that can run it. Joey just wasn't very good at his decision making, he had a very good teacher in Mooch and just didn't get it. He had weapons in 2004 and 2005. Yes 2002 and 2003, he didn't have any, but that doesn't mean he's a good QB who was just lacking weapons. He was a bad QB with bad weapons. And 2004 once the running game got going, we were losing because of Joey. We started the season like 5-3. How does McNabb run the west coast with Reggie Brown,Kevin Curtis,Avant, Greg Lewis etc. It's not entirely Joey's fault we lost, but he is not a good QB and shouldn't be pitied for coming to the Lions. He would have failed anywhere. Just like David Carr would fail anywhere. Don't give me this its all the Olines fault. Get a quicker release while still making a good decision or have some pocket presence and convert a 3rd down. Thats what it takes in this league.

Sacks are dependent on the Oline's abilities, the QBs release/pocket presence abilities and the system you run.
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Old 03-13-2009, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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It's the West Coast offense. You get rid of the ball quickly and it works if the QB gets the ball to the right receiver. I have no problem with that system if you get a QB that can run it. Joey just wasn't very good at his decision making, he had a very good teacher in Mooch and just didn't get it. He had weapons in 2004 and 2005. Yes 2002 and 2003, he didn't have any, but that doesn't mean he's a good QB who was just lacking weapons. He was a bad QB with bad weapons. And 2004 once the running game got going, we were losing because of Joey. We started the season like 5-3. How does McNabb run the west coast with Reggie Brown,Kevin Curtis,Avant, Greg Lewis etc. It's not entirely Joey's fault we lost, but he is not a good QB and shouldn't be pitied for coming to the Lions. He would have failed anywhere. Just like David Carr would fail anywhere. Don't give me this its all the Olines fault. Get a quicker release while still making a good decision or have some pocket presence and convert a 3rd down. Thats what it takes in this league.

Sacks are dependent on the Oline's abilities, the QBs release/pocket presence abilities and the system you run.
No it was Mooch's/Marty's bastardized West Coast Offense. And in 2002, he was clearly not ready but he was thrown into the wolves on one of the worst offenses I have ever seen and was asked to do something with that. The same thing happened in 2003 except that Charles Rogers was moderately successful for a five game period.

Harrington was clearly not mentally strong enough to handle the devastation of those first two years, not too mention it all being followed by a coach being brought in who clearly never liked him and continued the system that he was never going to succeed in. I think Harrington could have been successful in another situation where he wasn't asked to make do with nothing.
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Old 03-13-2009, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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No it was Mooch's/Marty's bastardized West Coast Offense. And in 2002, he was clearly not ready but he was thrown into the wolves on one of the worst offenses I have ever seen and was asked to do something with that. The same thing happened in 2003 except that Charles Rogers was moderately successful for a five game period.

Harrington was clearly not mentally strong enough to handle the devastation of those first two years, not too mention it all being followed by a coach being brought in who clearly never liked him and continued the system that he was never going to succeed in. I think Harrington could have been successful in another situation where he wasn't asked to make do with nothing.
Another reason he wasn't a good QB, no mental toughness. There was nothing expected out of him in 2002 or 2003 except for his development. We weren't expecting to go the playoffs. By 2004 and 2005, we should have been but Joey didn't progress. Mooch might have hated him, but there is a reason for that, coaches hate terrible QBs. No way he is succesful anywhere else. He's had opportunities to start in 2006 and 2007 and played like crap also and it's not because the Lions ruined him. He should have enough of a grasp of what it takes in this league to do well in Miami and Atlanta. Atlantas Oline was virtually unchanged when Baker was done but Ryan can actually make a good decision, move around in the pocket to by time and convert 3rd downs. Hence he's a franchise and Joey's 3rd string on New Orleans.
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Old 03-13-2009, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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Im going to buy him a car! He did great things for the 3 other North teams by basically making it a 3 team division. I'll take the 33% chance to win the division over 25%. He was a good man.
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Old 03-13-2009, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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Oh god oh god please stop I thought I'd never have to hear another stupid Joey Harrington argument again. The guy sucks, he always did, he proved it beyond a doubt by what he did after he left the Lions.

As for Millen, it was obvious within a year of him taking over the team that he was all talk, and that's still all he is, great at talking and crap at everything else. He never worked hard enough, he never gathered the information he needed, he never committed to the Detroit community, he was just there to be the old man's buddy and make things sound good. F him. I hope he falls out of his plane on the way from Pennsylvania to the NBC studio on opening weekend next season.
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Happy late birthday!!

Great picks on Charles Rogers and Mike Williams!!
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