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Old 03-29-2009, 12:27 PM    (permalink
darthjake16
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Default Pats should get a LB

I think if USC's mathews or cushing is there they should pick one of them. I think those guys could step up and add to the LB core which as gone from old to a new step of guys. And Vrabel being gone leaves the only hole in this team which is looking very strong. Vrabel was a big asset to the team. THoughts on Vrabel? and young LBS they should consider?
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Old 03-29-2009, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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I think if USC's mathews or cushing is there they should pick one of them. I think those guys could step up and add to the LB core which as gone from old to a new step of guys. And Vrabel being gone leaves the only hole in this team which is looking very strong. Vrabel was a big asset to the team. THoughts on Vrabel? and young LBS they should consider?
Not breaking any new ground here for the Pats going after a LB. The thing i'm not sure about is what they really think about some of the younger guys they've drafted recently like Crable and others. With 6 picks in the top 100 they may even take two. My preferance of those realistically who could be available:

Connor Barwin
Clay Matthews
Brian Cushing
Rey Maualuga
James Laurinaitis
Aaron Maybin
Clint Sintim
Scott Mckillop

Give me two of those please.
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Old 03-29-2009, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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I don't think BB will reach for clay matthews with 23 or 34. Clay Matthews has clearly improved his stock but he's not a legit first rounder, definitely round mid-late round 2, early round 2 being a slight reach.

Some LB hungry team (possibly the pats...) might go after him around 34 unfortunately.

Even though Rey has character concerns, I would much rather him inside because I like a Mayo/Rey Adalius/Crable rotation over a Mayo/Bruschi Adalius/Matthews.
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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I don't think BB will reach for clay matthews with 23 or 34. Clay Matthews has clearly improved his stock but he's not a legit first rounder, definitely round mid-late round 2, early round 2 being a slight reach.

Some LB hungry team (possibly the pats...) might go after him around 34 unfortunately.

Even though Rey has character concerns, I would much rather him inside because I like a Mayo/Rey Adalius/Crable rotation over a Mayo/Bruschi Adalius/Matthews.

I'll take a Barwin/Mayo/Adalius/Matthews rotation over all of them. Would probably have to consolodate some of those 2nds and 3rds to do that.
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Adalius was a bust inside if you ask me. Some of his games were somewhat painful to watch. I'd rather keep him outside where he has put some pressure on the QB. My ideal rotation would be:

Jason Taylor - Jerod Mayo - Rey Maualuga - Adalius Thomas

If New England drafted someone like Clay Matthews Jr. or Connor Barwin at #34, they'd have someone to groom for a year or two behind Taylor. Crable would be able to eventually take over for Thomas (when he gets old, move him inside, I guess), and Maualuga could split time with Tedy Bruschi, Gary Guyton subbing in for Jerod Mayo every now and then. Give the team some good depth.
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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I think we will take 2 LBs day 1. If we could get Maualuga in the first I would be thrilled, he and Mayo could be ridiculous together for years. I would not be suprised to see us go LB at 23 and 34, there are a lot of guys who are great fits for our defense in a year where we are starved for LB talent and we have plenty of picks. The time is now to revamp our defense.
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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I'll take a Barwin/Mayo/Adalius/Matthews rotation over all of them. Would probably have to consolodate some of those 2nds and 3rds to do that.
Barwin is projected to be on the Outside though, don't think he could make the transition to inside with such limited experience on defense. If you want to put barwin and matthews on the outside and put Adalius back inside I feel that would be a waste of what Adalius does best, rush the passer.

If you want barwin and matthews you could probably get matthews at 23 and barwin at 34 but like I said, I don't think we should draft 2 OLB unless it's a severe BPA scenario, we definitely need to get a DE/OLB + ILB + S + BPA with our 4 day 1 picks.
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Another thing is our defense is at its best when we have a lot of LB depth and we can do a lot of rotating, keeping everyone fresh. If we add a guy like Jason Taylor I would still hope we target 2 day LBs. As ROP said, Thomas is best suited outside and we need another starting ILB which I hope could be Maualuga at pick 23. At 34, guys like Barwin and Matthews are too good of ftis for what we do to pass them up if available (we could possibly even take one of them at 23).
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Adalius was a bust inside if you ask me. Some of his games were somewhat painful to watch. I'd rather keep him outside where he has put some pressure on the QB. My ideal rotation would be:

Jason Taylor - Jerod Mayo - Rey Maualuga - Adalius Thomas

If New England drafted someone like Clay Matthews Jr. or Connor Barwin at #34, they'd have someone to groom for a year or two behind Taylor. Crable would be able to eventually take over for Thomas (when he gets old, move him inside, I guess), and Maualuga could split time with Tedy Bruschi, Gary Guyton subbing in for Jerod Mayo every now and then. Give the team some good depth.
I really like this rotation. Apparently Jason Taylor to the Pats is a foregone conclusion so this is definitely a realistic rotation. I like the idea of Crable behind Thomas and Matthews/Barwin behind Taylor.

Do you think we trade up to get Rey if he's available at say, 17, 18? Especially if we think we can get Barwin/Matthews at 34/58 (i.e. package our late 2nd rounder to get a higher 1st rounder, don't think it would take 23+34 to get up to 17/18, probably 23 + 58, although I don't have that draft chart)
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Barwin is projected to be on the Outside though, don't think he could make the transition to inside with such limited experience on defense. If you want to put barwin and matthews on the outside and put Adalius back inside I feel that would be a waste of what Adalius does best, rush the passer.

If you want barwin and matthews you could probably get matthews at 23 and barwin at 34 but like I said, I don't think we should draft 2 OLB unless it's a severe BPA scenario, we definitely need to get a DE/OLB + ILB + S + BPA with our 4 day 1 picks.

I have Barwin on the outside also, not sure the confusion there. Not sure the love of Maualuga by so many, the guy is a 2 down player and he isnt instinctive, will make a highlight reel but isnt going to help your defense. Will concede that Matthews and Barwin wont both be coming out of the draft to N.E.
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Old 03-29-2009, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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Adalius was a bust inside if you ask me. Some of his games were somewhat painful to watch. I'd rather keep him outside where he has put some pressure on the QB. My ideal rotation would be:

Jason Taylor - Jerod Mayo - Rey Maualuga - Adalius Thomas

If New England drafted someone like Clay Matthews Jr. or Connor Barwin at #34, they'd have someone to groom for a year or two behind Taylor. Crable would be able to eventually take over for Thomas (when he gets old, move him inside, I guess), and Maualuga could split time with Tedy Bruschi, Gary Guyton subbing in for Jerod Mayo every now and then. Give the team some good depth.
I couldn't agree more with this post....however i'm not high on either of the 2 OLB's form USC.....i'd take my chances with Barwin over either of then
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Old 03-29-2009, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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If the PATS want Matthews or Barwin they might have to take them at 23. In fact they might have to trade up to get Matthews.

I think Matthews is just a late bloomer. He's going to be a stud.

Barwin might eventually be better than him.

I love Maualuga but not in the PATS style of 3-4. He likes hitting small guys. He doesn't take on guards or shed them well.

Don't be shocked if the PATS take Alex Mack in round one. If their is a run on LB's before we pick they might not wait the next 10 to get the LB they like. They also might target someone and trade up to get him. But is there are a lot of LB's left they might think they can get the one they want at 34 and use 23 for something suprising.

A guy like Mack could start at RG and we could move Neal to tackle. He's played RT for the PATS before. That might be a pretty strong line with depth. The PATS line doesn't get their due. They had a real good rushing team last year, even with all the injuries.

Remember they have 3 second roound picks. If there is a run on LB after we took Mack we could always trade back up to get the LB we wanted. Our draft allows us to target people.

We probably already have an understanding with Taylor. As soon as he was cut I called my brothers from Africa and told them we would sign Taylor.

I like Jasper Brinkley a lot. He will remind you guys of Vincent Brown and Ted Johnson or going further back Sam "Big Backer" Hunt. I think he will be an All Pro. Before his injury he was the best ILB in college and that includes Laurinaitis and Maualuga. I'd take him in round 2 because I bet he will be gone by the time we pick at 89...and we can't trade 97 to sweeten a move up.

Even if we take Mack, I think we will take an OLB with our next pick (#34 or higher).

I like Barwin. I think Matthews will be gone and I might like Barwin more than Matthews. I keep going back and forth on that. Matthews Pro Day will make that decision for me. It's hard to fault Barwin, led his conference in sacks with 11. He had a lot of tackles. He runs under 4.5 at olmost 260 lbs and had a vertical leap of over 41 inches...that is amazing. He's a great athlete who played TE so he understands passing routes to some extent and has seen it from the other side, he's bright and has a non stop motor and wants to be great.

Matthews is about 10+ pounds lighter but has a lot of the same attributes. He was a walk on at one of the biggest and best schools in the country and the family plays football for a long time....he will too. If he runs under 4.6 on April 1st I think we would have to trade up to get him. He could go as high as #11.

What do you guys think of this.

We take Mack at 23.
Trade a third and 34 to move back into the first because there is a run on LB and they want to get Barwin. So now they take Barwin.
at #47 we take Patrick Chung
and at #58 we take Jasper Brinkley
and we sign Jason Taylor.

If you look at our depth chart with that day one group, I think we could duplicate 2007. Galloway was the fastest person on Tampa and before he got hurt he had three consecutive 1000 yard seasons. He's like Stallworth (same size) but with talent. He's a great route runner and has real good hands and tremendous speed...add Fred Taylor and a healthy Maroney and Brady. Leigh Bodden will be a stud in this D and so will Springs.

Sorry I'm so long winded but this is my only entertainment and I just took a cold bucket shower so I'm all geared up. I'm flying back for the draft in a week.
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Old 03-29-2009, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Wouldn't surprise me at all to see them take an OL in round 1, though I would suspect they'd be looking for a tackle that high rather than an interior guy.

Just my opinion and I know I'm in the minority but I think 34 is way too early for Barwin. He was tied for the conference lead in sacks with Cody Brown.. so why not just wait until round three and take Brown who also had more tackles and TFL's than Barwin, did it for more than one year, and has actually played LB before. Regardless, if they are signing Taylor then they really have no need to draft an OLB early. Last year they only carried 4 OLB's on the active roster so if they sign Taylor and draft an early OLB, that means only one of Crable, Redd, and Banta-Cain make the roster this year. I wouldn't cry over Banta-Cain getting cut but if they are as high on Redd as what we hear, then they probably don't want to lose him.

I like Chung at 47.

I think 58 is way too early for Brinkley who is a 2 down LB and is coming off a major injury.
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Old 03-29-2009, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Wouldn't surprise me at all to see them take an OL in round 1, though I would suspect they'd be looking for a tackle that high rather than an interior guy.

Just my opinion and I know I'm in the minority but I think 34 is way too early for Barwin. He was tied for the conference lead in sacks with Cody Brown.. so why not just wait until round three and take Brown who also had more tackles and TFL's than Barwin, did it for more than one year, and has actually played LB before. Regardless, if they are signing Taylor then they really have no need to draft an OLB early. Last year they only carried 4 OLB's on the active roster so if they sign Taylor and draft an early OLB, that means only one of Crable, Redd, and Banta-Cain make the roster this year. I wouldn't cry over Banta-Cain getting cut but if they are as high on Redd as what we hear, then they probably don't want to lose him.

I like Chung at 47.

I think 58 is way too early for Brinkley who is a 2 down LB and is coming off a major injury.


We need a 2 down run stopper. We going to have nickel and die coverage and 3 safety alignments A LOT. Our offense has more talent than it did in '07.

Brinkley is the best ILB in this draft. If he hadn't gotten hurt he would be a #1. I think he is going to be a real great player and a much better fit for our D then Laurinaitis or Maualuga.

I like Chung at 47 too.

Here's my take on Barwin. He's an incredible athlete who has a high football IQ. He was productive his senior year and has huge upside. He can learn behind Bruschi, Taylor and Thomas for a year and contribute as much as is needed.

I don't think that waiting on a player and hoping he'll be there when you want to pick him is smart. If you like him go get him and who cares what number you get him...you just get him. Brinkley will give us something we lack and once he's fully back from his injury, and it looks like he's coming around we're actually getting him cheap. If he hadn't been injured he'd have gone in the first. If he's healthy then you get a first round talent in round two...that's a steal not a reach.

I don't set up my draft board like other do I look at what the player does well and what he doesn't and then rank them by position and overall. He is going to be value at a need position. That's a win win to me. Just my opinion
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Old 03-29-2009, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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Don't be shocked if the PATS take Alex Mack in round one. If their is a run on LB's before we pick they might not wait the next 10 to get the LB they like. They also might target someone and trade up to get him. But is there are a lot of LB's left they might think they can get the one they want at 34 and use 23 for something suprising.

A guy like Mack could start at RG and we could move Neal to tackle. He's played RT for the PATS before. That might be a pretty strong line with depth. The PATS line doesn't get their due. They had a real good rushing team last year, even with all the injuries.

Remember they have 3 second roound picks. If there is a run on LB after we took Mack we could always trade back up to get the LB we wanted. Our draft allows us to target people.

We probably already have an understanding with Taylor. As soon as he was cut I called my brothers from Africa and told them we would sign Taylor.

I like Jasper Brinkley a lot. He will remind you guys of Vincent Brown and Ted Johnson or going further back Sam "Big Backer" Hunt. I think he will be an All Pro. Before his injury he was the best ILB in college and that includes Laurinaitis and Maualuga. I'd take him in round 2 because I bet he will be gone by the time we pick at 89...and we can't trade 97 to sweeten a move up.

Even if we take Mack, I think we will take an OLB with our next pick (#34 or higher).

I like Barwin. I think Matthews will be gone and I might like Barwin more than Matthews. I keep going back and forth on that. Matthews Pro Day will make that decision for me. It's hard to fault Barwin, led his conference in sacks with 11. He had a lot of tackles. He runs under 4.5 at olmost 260 lbs and had a vertical leap of over 41 inches...that is amazing. He's a great athlete who played TE so he understands passing routes to some extent and has seen it from the other side, he's bright and has a non stop motor and wants to be great.

Matthews is about 10+ pounds lighter but has a lot of the same attributes. He was a walk on at one of the biggest and best schools in the country and the family plays football for a long time....he will too. If he runs under 4.6 on April 1st I think we
I don't think Neal could play tackle, and he can't stay healthy and is older than Kazcur, who is not as bad as everyone makes him out to be. Could he be upgraded? Oh yea. Does he need to be upgraded at the expense of getting a starter on defense, unless a guy like Oher falls then no. Moving Neal to tackle makes us worse and older at tackle, while getting better and younger at guard. We need defense....bad.
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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I am interested to see what the Pats do with the picks
since I doubt we don't make any trades throughout the draft
Rey Rey in the 1st would be amazing
but I wouldn't be happy if we didn't address OLB and S as well
Also, if we don't get Rey then I don't think we should address MLB until late 2nd/3rd rd
With Brinkley being the guy I'd like for us to pick up.
With Rey Gone- grab a OLB stud, S and after that BPA is something I'd like.
Grabbing a nice WR (Nicks/Britts if they fall) would be nice- an OT(Loadholt, Merideth)- or some DL depth (Moala, Kruger or Gilbert)
I wouldn't be againt drafting a guy like D.Brown from UCONN (RB) @ 47 if he was still available.

As for the J.Taylor move... I think that'd be a nice stop gap for us for our OLBs to learn from.
Also it'd be good for JT so he'd stay fresh with all the young legs behind him.
If he came at the right price- it'd be nice.
Regardless if we grab him or not though- I don't think that should change our gameplan on draft day since he's not a long term solution

That's how I'd like it to play out
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Old 03-30-2009, 05:13 AM    (permalink
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I am interested to see what the Pats do with the picks
since I doubt we don't make any trades throughout the draft
Rey Rey in the 1st would be amazing
but I wouldn't be happy if we didn't address OLB and S as well
Also, if we don't get Rey then I don't think we should address MLB until late 2nd/3rd rd
With Brinkley being the guy I'd like for us to pick up.
With Rey Gone- grab a OLB stud, S and after that BPA is something I'd like.
Grabbing a nice WR (Nicks/Britts if they fall) would be nice- an OT(Loadholt, Merideth)- or some DL depth (Moala, Kruger or Gilbert)
I wouldn't be againt drafting a guy like D.Brown from UCONN (RB) @ 47 if he was still available.

As for the J.Taylor move... I think that'd be a nice stop gap for us for our OLBs to learn from.
Also it'd be good for JT so he'd stay fresh with all the young legs behind him.
If he came at the right price- it'd be nice.
Regardless if we grab him or not though- I don't think that should change our gameplan on draft day since he's not a long term solution

That's how I'd like it to play out

I agree. We need to address OLB, ILB and another S. If someone falls we will either take him with our pick or move up to get him.

Looking at the picks between 23 and 34 a bunch of LB could be taken. I wouldn't be shocked if we took a guy like Mack (and Neal can play tackle well) but it might only mean jumping up from 34 to say 31 to leapfrog Pitt to get Mack, whereas we might have to trade up a lot higher (costing a #2 instead of a #4) to get the LB we want. Therefore I really do think that OLB is what the PATS will take unless something really wierd happens.

And I'm real good with that.

I really like Brinkley and I'm afraid if we wait til round three he'll be gone. I would take him in round two. We need that type of player on our team. We don't have it now. He'd be great in the red zone and in short yardage. That means noone will convert a third and short...and we get the ball back! Those type of things change games. With all the sub packages we use almost nobody is on the field all the time so who cares if he's a 2 down LB. (I personally think he's more than that, but that's just me).
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Old 03-30-2009, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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ok i HIGHLY doubt we draft an offensive lineman in the first two rounds..... Since 2001, we have drafted TWO, yes TWO, offensive lineman in the first two rounds. That was Matt Light and Logan Mankins I believe. I am pretty sure they feel they can find lineman to fit our team in the later rounds. So all of you calling for Mack and Unger, I am willing to put money on the fact we won't select them based on past draft history.
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Old 03-30-2009, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Mack and Unger are highly unlikely. But I wouldn't rule out one of the OT's. I actually think an OT is one of the better routes they can take with one of their first 4 picks. I wouldn't mind anyone up to Eben Britton at #23. Jamon Meredith or Phil Loadholt would be nice in the 2nd round.

And if Duke Robinson falls to their 3rd pick, passing on him would be very questionable.
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Old 03-30-2009, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Mack and Unger are highly unlikely. But I wouldn't rule out one of the OT's. I actually think an OT is one of the better routes they can take with one of their first 4 picks. I wouldn't mind anyone up to Eben Britton at #23. Jamon Meredith or Phil Loadholt would be nice in the 2nd round.

And if Duke Robinson falls to their 3rd pick, passing on him would be very questionable.
I will puke if we draft Meredith. He is pretty versatile and has some athleticism, but he was nothing special in college. He should not be a second round pick. I do like Britton, but we need to focus on defense day 1. Our first 3 picks should be 2 LBs and a safety; with our final second rounder being either CB, WR, OL, DL, or BPA.
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Old 03-30-2009, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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I do agree that itis unlikely we draft an OL in the first round. I really think they will target a bunch of LB (inside and outside) and a S.

The main reason I think they will jump all over a LB is that there are a lot more 3-4 teams so there are more teams looking at the same kind of players we are. We'll lose out if we wait. If we take someone other than a linebacker, I bet with the next pick we trade up to get the LB we just passed on.

I like Mack, but I don't like Unger. At TE I really like James Casey.

At safety I like Chung. I liked Moore but not as much as I used to.

I LOVE Brinkley. In fact if he's all we got I'd be happy...well that's a bit of a stretch.

OLB I like Matthews and Barwin.

I don't think Laurinaitis or Mauluga fit although I think Maualuga fits better than Laurinaitis.

I'd like to hear what other ILB and OLB you guys like and why they fit our system.
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Old 03-30-2009, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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I really Britton at #23. They need a safety, and then they have a lot of options. There are 3 safeties graded in this range (Moore, Chung, Delmas) that are very attractive to what the Pats do on defense. There are innumerable hybrid pass rushers in this draft. I really think the best spot to get one if they want one is at #34. If there's a high-potential WR that falls to them (Maclin, DHB at #23; Britt, Nicks, Harvin in Round 2) they should probably jump on it. There are a ton of similarly-talented CB's in this draft. There are a bunch of potential 3-4 DE's in this draft, and with Wright re-signed, it's not a 1st/2nd need unless someone falls.

I will say that I really like the idea of Matthews or Barwin. I think those are two special, versatile players who fit what the Pats do as an organization.

So I have 2 options:
23. Eben Britton
34. Matthews/Barwin or Britt/Nicks/Harvin
47. Moore/Chung/Delmas
58. BPA or Cody Brown/Lawrence Sidbury Jr/Henry Melton

or

23. Matthews/Barwin
34. William Moore or (Britt/Nicks/Harvin)
47. Jamon Meredith/Phil Loadholt/Duke Robinson or Chung/Delmas
58. BPA

I'm also a big fan of Lee Robinson in the 3rd or 4th as an ILB. And I do like Jasper Brinkley as a 2-down run stopper (Jeremiah Trotter/Ted Johnson) with Adalius Thomas moving inside on passing downs, but I can't even think of anyone coming into the NFL and playing that role straight out of college... They tried that with Roach and Parham not long ago.
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Old 03-30-2009, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nepg View Post
I really Britton at #23. They need a safety, and then they have a lot of options. There are 3 safeties graded in this range (Moore, Chung, Delmas) that are very attractive to what the Pats do on defense. There are innumerable hybrid pass rushers in this draft. I really think the best spot to get one if they want one is at #34. If there's a high-potential WR that falls to them (Maclin, DHB at #23; Britt, Nicks, Harvin in Round 2) they should probably jump on it. There are a ton of similarly-talented CB's in this draft. There are a bunch of potential 3-4 DE's in this draft, and with Wright re-signed, it's not a 1st/2nd need unless someone falls.

I will say that I really like the idea of Matthews or Barwin. I think those are two special, versatile players who fit what the Pats do as an organization.

So I have 2 options:
23. Eben Britton
34. Matthews/Barwin or Britt/Nicks/Harvin
47. Moore/Chung/Delmas
58. BPA or Cody Brown/Lawrence Sidbury Jr/Henry Melton

or

23. Matthews/Barwin
34. William Moore or (Britt/Nicks/Harvin)
47. Jamon Meredith/Phil Loadholt/Duke Robinson or Chung/Delmas
58. BPA

I'm also a big fan of Lee Robinson in the 3rd or 4th as an ILB. And I do like Jasper Brinkley as a 2-down run stopper (Jeremiah Trotter/Ted Johnson) with Adalius Thomas moving inside on passing downs, but I can't even think of anyone coming into the NFL and playing that role straight out of college... They tried that with Roach and Parham not long ago.

I don't think they will move Thomas inside on third down. They like Guyton who ran a 4.5 He's got speed and played in a third of the defensive snaps as a rookie. I was shocked he wasn't drafted. I thought he was going to go in either the third or fourth round last year. They will keep Thomas on the outside to rush the passer. Another thing they might do is put Tank Williams in at inside LB on obvious passing downs as well. Also they will play a lot of nickel and dime. So Brinkley won't be in as much as a normal starter BUT he wioll end a lot of seudo draves on third and short and stuff people at the goal line.

I'm not high on Robinson (for the PATS). He is a lot like Laurinaitis and I don't think he fits the PATS style of D for their ILB's I think he would be better in a different style.

Does anyone like one of the safeties more than another and why? Chung or Moore or Delmas or Johnson or someone not mentioned.

If there is anyone who wants me to sent them PFW Draft Preview I have it on PDF. Just send an e-mail to me at BHYG@GDGLTD.com
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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If there is anyone who wants me to sent them PFW Draft Preview I have it on PDF. Just send an e-mail to me at BHYG@GDGLTD.com
I'll check out this draft preview...i PM'd you my email address
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Old 03-31-2009, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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I'll check out this draft preview...i PM'd you my email address
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