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View Poll Results: Jay Cutler Now or Michael Vick Before Jail
Jay Cutler 104 74.82%
Michael Vick 35 25.18%
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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I've always stated that I thought Mike Vick was the single biggest waste of talent the NFL has ever seen. The league had never seen a player like him before, and due to his failure, I think its unlikely that we will ever see a player like him again. Because of his inability to mature as a passer, guys like Vince Young and Pat White wont ever be thought of as what they are: guys with unique skillsets that cant be confined to a stereotypical offense. With those sort of guys, what you see is what you get. I think that because of Vick's failure, teams are wary of drafting players with those sort of tendencies (run first) because they dont want them to bust like Vick.

But here is the catch: it wasnt Vick's fault that he busted.

He was put in an unfair situation. He was asked to win games by himself. He had little talent around him. And, on top of that, they put him in the field and said "Ok, we want you to win games, but we want you to win them our way." Im sorry, you dont draft someone like Vick to be a pocket passer who can escape the pass rush and take of if he has to. You draft him to bring a presence to the field that has to be conistently guarded against every play. Which is what he brings. Vick affected the game in a very X's and O's type manner. And I think he was put in a situation that brought about his demise.

If its me, starting from scratch a team, I take Mike Vick and I put him in a custom offense that doesnt ask him to be a precision passer. Give him the ability to create: if you do that, teams will fear him. If you give him the ability or the option to run on every single play, then see what kind of gameplan the defense comes up with, and see who else on your offense goes unaccounted for when everyone is watching Vick.
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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I'm a huge Mike Vick jock sniffer, but let's be real for a sec.

He was in federal prison because he put up the cash to bankroll that entire dogfighting operation. He dragged his friends along in his hobby, not the other way around.

Still don't think it should be a federal crime.
Are you serious? He dragged his friends in? You don't think it was a mutual thing? Dog fighting is HUGE in the poor black community. Hell, dog fighting is HUGE in many poor communities around the world. He bankrolled it because he could, his friends couldn't. That is the only reason he bankrolled it. Had one of his friends been the NFL star and Vick just a friend, it would have been the other way around.

I agree that it shouldn't be a federal crime. ****-fighting is legal... But I'm not real big on animal rights(although the ways he killed them were disgusting and could be punished for animal cruelty for that, should have just shot them in the head so it was painless.)
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Call Vick what you want, but to suggest he was/is a bust doesn't reflect his record with the Falcons or performance on the field.

Why do you think so many teams starting using the wildcat formation last season? That was a direct acknowledgment by NFL coaches how dangerous it is to have someone under center who can threaten a D with his feet and his arm.

Vick was no where near a failure, but he never developed into the player many expected and hoped he could be.

Stay tuned, the final chapter on the Michael Vick experience has yet to be written.
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Someon44, I'm from Virginia and currently live there.

Word is ol' Mike was into fighting dogs from way back, even before he arrived Va Tech, and once he signed his first NFL contract, it was his dream to go big time with it.

He wanted to run a kennel to match-ring operation, and his friends were included because he trusted them more than anyone he could bring in from the outside to hold it down while he was in Atlanta.

Point blank, if Mike wasn't in it for a dollar, there would have been no Bad Newz Kennels.
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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Someon44, I'm from Virginia and currently live there.

Word is ol' Mike was into fighting dogs from way back, even before he arrived Va Tech, and once he signed his first NFL contract, it was his dream to go big time with it.

He wanted to run a kennel to match-ring operation, and his friends were included because he trusted them more than anyone he could bring in from the outside to hold it down while he was in Atlanta.

Point blank, if Mike wasn't in it for a dollar, there would have been no Bad Newz Kennels.
And where did this word come from?
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Ever heard of something called the INTERNET, yourfavstoner?

Look it up, there's countless articles that have chronicled the Mike Vick saga with dogfighting, it's there to find if you don't wanna believe a local.

If you ever get a chance to talk to some of his teammates who played with him at Va Tech or his brother, they will inform you that Vick was into dogfighting since HS.
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Old 04-23-2009, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Ever heard of something called the INTERNET, yourfavstoner?

Look it up, there's countless articles that have chronicled the Mike Vick saga with dogfighting, it's there to find if you don't wanna believe a local.

If you ever get a chance to talk to some of his teammates who played with him at Va Tech or his brother, they will inform you that Vick was into dogfighting since HS.

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Old 04-23-2009, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Give me a break. Cutler has had two full years of starting, you have to give him a chance before you fault him for not making the playoffs. What did Peyton Manning do in his first 2 years? Is Trent Dilfer really better than Dan Marino? I don't think so. The Broncos didn't make the playoffs because they had the 29th ranked defense, not because they had the 2nd ranked offense.
He and the Colts went from 3-13 to 13-3 and division champs in his first 2 years.
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Old 04-23-2009, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Someon44, I'm from Virginia and currently live there.

Word is ol' Mike was into fighting dogs from way back, even before he arrived Va Tech, and once he signed his first NFL contract, it was his dream to go big time with it.

He wanted to run a kennel to match-ring operation, and his friends were included because he trusted them more than anyone he could bring in from the outside to hold it down while he was in Atlanta.

Point blank, if Mike wasn't in it for a dollar, there would have been no Bad Newz Kennels.
That doesn't change a single thing I said. How do you think he got into it? Friends. You don't just start fighting dogs by yourself. You do it because it is a cultural thing. His friends were as into dog fighting as he was. Did he get some of his friends involved? I'm sure, but he also got involved by friends. That entire group was into dogfighting, had any one of them made big money, they would have bankrolled the operation.

To think otherwise is incredibly naive.
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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Someone447, everyone in the 'hood doesn't sling rocks on a corner, carjack, have illegitimate kids, drop out of HS, join gangs, do home invasions, shoot cops, etc. or fight dogs.

Granted, Mike grew up in an environment worlds different from most people, but to get as far as he did in life, he most of all new the importance of making the right decisions.

Getting that deep into dogfighting when you're the #1 pick in the NFL draft and making tens of millions of dollars is a bad choice, and on some level he most have known that.

If you research the story, you'll find out that at various points friends and teammates told Mike he needed to let the whole dogfighting thing ride and focus more on football, but he refused to heed their advise.

The only pass I give Vick on the entire situation is that he probably didn't know dogfighting at the time had been re-classified as a federal offense, I didn't know that either.

Just ignorance and dumb luck, but Vick has served his time, fighting dogs isn't the same as killing folks, Mike is 29 years old and I'm hoping the NFL commissioner will give him the opportunity to resume his NFL career.
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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If you research the story, you'll find out that at various points friends and teammates told Mike he needed to let the whole dogfighting thing ride and focus more on football, but he refused to heed their advise.
And I'm sure there were just as many friends saying the exact opposite.

This is a guy who was literally making hundreds of millions of dollars and is now bankrupt. What does that tell you about his personal decision-making ability and the people around him?
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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Someone447, everyone in the 'hood doesn't sling rocks on a corner, carjack, have illegitimate kids, drop out of HS, join gangs, do home invasions, shoot cops, etc. or fight dogs.

Granted, Mike grew up in an environment worlds different from most people, but to get as far as he did in life, he most of all new the importance of making the right decisions.

Getting that deep into dogfighting when you're the #1 pick in the NFL draft and making tens of millions of dollars is a bad choice, and on some level he most have known that.

If you research the story, you'll find out that at various points friends and teammates told Mike he needed to let the whole dogfighting thing ride and focus more on football, but he refused to heed their advise.

The only pass I give Vick on the entire situation is that he probably didn't know dogfighting at the time had been re-classified as a federal offense, I didn't know that either.

Just ignorance and dumb luck, but Vick has served his time, fighting dogs isn't the same as killing folks, Mike is 29 years old and I'm hoping the NFL commissioner will give him the opportunity to resume his NFL career.
No they don't... But, unfortunately, that is the culture surrounding the inner city. Not everyone follows the culture, I'm not an idiot. You still are not addressing my points. He did not get into this by himself. Friends brought him into it.

I have never once argued that Vick didn't make a stupid choice, that is just a strawman. What he did was incredibly stupid.

Yes, I'm sure his buddies who were in it with him wanted no part of it. I'm sure they were forced to do it. They didn't do it because they enjoyed it. Vick put a gun to their head... Of course some of his friends will tell him to quit being an idiot. But some of his friends were telling him how badass his operation was. You don't do something like that completely on your own.

You aren't even arguing any of my points, nothing you have said has refuted a single thing I've wrote. You have just been setting up straw mans only to knock them down. The problem with that is, I NEVER SAID ANY OF IT!
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Okay, someone447, you're right, I haven't addressed your initial point.

No, Vick didn't drag his cohorts into dogfighting, a misstatement on my part. I'm sure they all had a mutual interest in the sport as young teenagers.

But Vick is the one who had the most to lose by not giving it up when he was drafted by the Falcons, and now it's his career that's on the brink.
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