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View Poll Results: Who is the best?
Eric Berry, S, Tennessee 15 25.86%
Tim Tebow, QB, Florida 24 41.38%
Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma 1 1.72%
Colt McCoy, QB, Texas 3 5.17%
Gerald McCoy, DT, Oklahoma 4 6.90%
Dez Bryant, WR, Oklahoma State 1 1.72%
Jahvid Best, RB, California 5 8.62%
Taylor Mays, S, USC 1 1.72%
Julio Jones, WR, Alabama 1 1.72%
Other 3 5.17%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-30-2009, 01:10 PM    (permalink
jballa838
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Originally Posted by murdamal86 View Post
Thanks for contributing. If you dont think Jake Locker is just as physically talented as Tim Tebow, you havent seen much Locker. There is a reason he was drafted in the 10th round by the Angels in the MLB draft when he has sparingly played baseball since H.S. He can throw a football just as well too.
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jballa838 View Post
Thanks for contributing. If you dont think Jake Locker is just as physically talented as Tim Tebow, you havent seen much Locker. There is a reason he was drafted in the 10th round by the Angels in the MLB draft when he has sparingly played baseball since H.S. He can throw a football just as well too.
There's plenty of college QBs who are just as or more physically talented than Tim Tebow, but being able to develop and improve into a force at the position is what separates Tebow from the previously mentioned Locker and Pryor.
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
He may be a great player but Tennessee only won 6 games last year, not exactly a player who takes over games and can win.
He doesnt have an offense. Even the best defensive players gas if they're on the field too long.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jballa838 View Post
Thanks for contributing. If you dont think Jake Locker is just as physically talented as Tim Tebow, you havent seen much Locker. There is a reason he was drafted in the 10th round by the Angels in the MLB draft when he has sparingly played baseball since H.S. He can throw a football just as well too.
But Locker ISN'T Tebow. Dude said put him in Eugene or Gainesville and he'll get an invite to Manhattan. I've seen Locker and i don't agree with that. Tebow is different. He has the "it". Just because Locker may be more physically talented than Tebow, that doesn't guarantee he'll be as or more successful if you gave him the same talent. Also he said swap Tebow and Locker and Tebow would be forgotten and that's crazy. I don't mean to bash him but i've seen enough of Tim to know that as far as being a college quarterback...he's special.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by murdamal86 View Post
But Locker ISN'T Tebow. Dude said put him in Eugene or Gainesville and he'll get an invite to Manhattan. I've seen Locker and i don't agree with that. Tebow is different. He has the "it". Just because Locker may be more physically talented than Tebow, that doesn't guarantee he'll be as or more successful if you gave him the same talent. Also he said swap Tebow and Locker and Tebow would be forgotten and that's crazy. I don't mean to bash him but i've seen enough of Tim to know that as far as being a college quarterback...he's special.
Never said Tebow isn't special. In fact I stated otherwise. The guy is a great football player, no question. If you don't think he'd be well off of people's radar on a losing team up in Seattle, you just don't understand college football.

The point I'm making is that Locker is special. He's just as great a talent as Tebow. It's not I who's discounting the talents of Tebow, but rather you and others who discount the talents of so many other players when you say that Tebow is far and away the best player in college football.
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by murdamal86 View Post
But Locker ISN'T Tebow. Dude said put him in Eugene or Gainesville and he'll get an invite to Manhattan. I've seen Locker and i don't agree with that.
I dunno about that man. Locker would be great in Florida's Offense surrounded with so many options, an actual good offensive line, and the top defense coming into the season. He would put up some impressive numbers, maybe just as good as Tebow and probably would garner some heisman spotlight. Not to mention Florida is on TV twice as much as Washington and it's a much more fertile football market. With him, Washington is a very dangerous team, without him.. well this happens

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Old 07-31-2009, 06:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Except position does matter. It matters a lot. One position is a lot more important towards winning football games.

It's like asking who makes a greater contribution towards science, the astro-physicist or the guy who cleans the bathrooms in the lab.
The importance of a position and being the best player are two different things also.
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Old 07-31-2009, 06:36 AM    (permalink
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The importance of a position and being the best player are two different things also.
They are. But I have a very hard time accepting that someone who plays safety, a position generally recognized as one of the least important and easiest to fill in football, is as impactful as a two-time heisman/national championship winner who touches the ball on every single play. I'm not saying Berry is just any safety. But there's only so much he can do to impact the game at his position. What he does at other positions is irrelevant to his evaluation as a player, because he doesn't actually do any of those things.

Or, to put it another way, if this wasn't a draft website, Berry wouldn't have more than 15% of the vote at best.
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Old 07-31-2009, 07:45 AM    (permalink
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They are. But I have a very hard time accepting that someone who plays safety, a position generally recognized as one of the least important and easiest to fill in football, is as impactful as a two-time heisman/national championship winner who touches the ball on every single play. I'm not saying Berry is just any safety. But there's only so much he can do to impact the game at his position. What he does at other positions is irrelevant to his evaluation as a player, because he doesn't actually do any of those things.

Or, to put it another way, if this wasn't a draft website, Berry wouldn't have more than 15% of the vote at best.
the question is not impact, if that was the question tebow wouldnt win either prolly (I think locker) but certainly not well anything else than a qb or a runningback in a wishbone or option attack.

How i read the question theoretically a fullback could be the best (although unlikely since fb's that great would be asked to either just run the ball or just block) and how you read it it can only be a qb.
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Old 07-31-2009, 07:55 AM    (permalink
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the question is not impact, if that was the question tebow wouldnt win either prolly (I think locker) but certainly not well anything else than a qb or a runningback in a wishbone or option attack.
How else can you judge a player than by what they, ya know, do?
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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How else can you judge a player than by what they, ya know, do?
How can you reserve the term "best" for QB's only?

What you're essentially saying, is that Kerry Collins is a better football player than Troy Polamalu.

The importance of your role on a team has nothing to do with how good a football player you are. Brian Westbrook's role didn't exist until his greatness created it. It's not the fact that he plays a larger role that makes him a better player than Jason Avant. Rather, it's the fact that he's a far superior player that makes his role so much bigger. And it doesn't always add up that way. Often times the role is just bigger regardless of who occupies it. Realizing this, it becomes obvious that the position you play has nothing to do with how good a player you actually are.

If you think Tim Tebow is the best player in the nation, it ought to be just that simple. That he's simply the best in your eyes. When you explain your reasoning by pointing out the obvious fact that QB's are more valuable than safeties, you make the game all about the QB's. It's not just Tebow > Berry, but Canfield > Mays, too.

Aside from all that, the original poster went out of his way to clarify this for us ahead of time by including this within his question-

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...if position/team success/conference affiliation didn't matter?
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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Well, Nick Sheridan IS a better player than Eric Berry, so maybe he's not far off.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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How else can you judge a player than by what they, ya know, do?
I say judge them by what they do and you are saying that how much they do is a very important factor as well, whilst imo if a player plays a position where he doesnt have to do AS much a player can still be a better player
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by duckseason View Post
What you're essentially saying, is that Kerry Collins is a better football player than Troy Polamalu.
That isn't even remotely close to what I'm saying.


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The importance of your role on a team has nothing to do with how good a football player you are.
Ummm....what? So, the better a player is does not at all effect how important he is to his team? Interesting.

Quote:
Brian Westbrook's role didn't exist until his greatness created it. It's not the fact that he plays a larger role that makes him a better player than Jason Avant. Rather, it's the fact that he's a far superior player that makes his role so much bigger.
And the fact that he is a really good football player...gasp....increased his role!!

Quote:
And it doesn't always add up that way.
Oh....

Quote:
Often times the role is just bigger regardless of who occupies it.
Which is why quarterbacks generally tend to have the most value placed upon them. Ya know, assuming they don't suck that is.

Quote:
Realizing this, it becomes obvious that the position you play has nothing to do with how good a player you actually are.
Realizing what? I think I need a diagram.

Quote:
If you think Tim Tebow is the best player in the nation, it ought to be just that simple. That he's simply the best in your eyes. When you explain your reasoning by pointing out the obvious fact that QB's are more valuable than safeties, you make the game all about the QB's. It's not just Tebow > Berry, but Canfield > Mays, too.
Only if you have a completely limited understanding of nuance.

Quote:
Aside from all that, the original poster went out of his way to clarify this for us ahead of time by including this within his question-
Which admittedly I missed the first time, but which I still think is an illogical way of asking the question. It does matter.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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I say judge them by what they do and you are saying that how much they do is a very important factor as well, whilst imo if a player plays a position where he doesnt have to do AS much a player can still be a better player
How could you possibly ever know? What would you even base that on?
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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I'll take Gerald McCoy over Eric Berry by a slight margin.

Both are dominant players, but I will always take a dominant trench guy over a skill position player. It just makes good football sense.
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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I'll take Gerald McCoy over Eric Berry by a slight margin.

Both are dominant players, but I will always take a dominant trench guy over a skill position player. It just makes good football sense.
To me, defensive lineman are more liable to disappear.
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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To me, defensive lineman are more liable to disappear.
I think a safety is more likely to dissapear than a defensive lineman. Safeties can go through stretches were they are barely involved in the play. A D-Lineman is involved in every play. He may not be blowing up every play in the backfield but if he's strong at the point of attack and is having a double team, he is still consistently having a more of an impact than a safety.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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If it means best player in the country for a college team, tehn Tebow is the only option. Now if it means best player talent wise for the NFL, well then i have to say Bradford or Berry.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:20 PM    (permalink
nrk
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I'd take Colt McCoy over Tim Tebow, and that's hard for me to admit.
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