Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-14-2009, 10:44 AM    (permalink
scottyboy
Coolio Cat
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Stalking Brian Leonard and Raymell Rice
Posts: 23,870
Reputation: 3831746
scottyboy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scottyboy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scottyboy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scottyboy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scottyboy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scottyboy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scottyboy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scottyboy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scottyboy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scottyboy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.scottyboy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marino13 View Post
While Miami isn't an elite OL, if they can stay healthy a line of Jake Long/Justin Smiley/Jake Grove/Donald Thomas/Vernon Carey could sneak into the top 5 by seasons end.
no, just no. MAYBE they can be near the top 5 in a year or 2, but just no.
__________________
We ALL bleed scarlet
New York Giants Super Bowl 46 Champs
UNITED: I actually attend the college I root for
Quote:
Originally Posted by PalmerToCJ View Post
BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
scottyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 11:22 AM    (permalink
no bare feet
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SAMCRO
Posts: 1,039
Reputation: 81455
no bare feet is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.no bare feet is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.no bare feet is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.no bare feet is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.no bare feet is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.no bare feet is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.no bare feet is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.no bare feet is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.no bare feet is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.no bare feet is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.no bare feet is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marino13 View Post
While Miami isn't an elite OL, if they can stay healthy a line of Jake Long/Justin Smiley/Jake Grove/Donald Thomas/Vernon Carey could sneak into the top 5 by seasons end.
The username you have created makes me suspect that you MAY be a Dolphins fan. Is that something I can assume?
no bare feet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 11:35 AM    (permalink
DeepThreat
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vidae's basement
Posts: 2,079
Reputation: 1267349
DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

No respect for the Browns? Their only weak spot is at RT, and that should be respectable.
__________________


Quote:
<@JBond> And Dg, you'd waste it on corndogs
<@JBond> So you get no 5 dollars
<+DG> how is buy one get one free wasting?
Quote:
<+njx9> i'm pretty sure your people still eat boots in north korea, bantx. they don't know what vegetables are.
DeepThreat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 11:52 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 28,899
Reputation: 3803561
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepThreat View Post
No respect for the Browns? Their only weak spot is at RT, and that should be respectable.
i think a lot of us, including myself, fall for the trap of basing performance from the previous year, and from projections.

2 years ago I said Dallas had arguably the best oline in the league, and if you were to ask me this year, Id say their line is decent in the run, but below average in pass protection.

So much can change, we just don't anticipate it. Its hard to predict with offensive lines.

EDIT: for example, how many of us said the Giants had the "best" oline (which i strongly dispute) in the league before the 09 season? Nobody. But at the end of the season, they were a consensus top 5 line.

You just can't predict it. The only offensive lines that have been consistently in the top 5 for the past 3 years has been the Titans line and the Eagles line.
__________________

Last edited by bigbluedefense : 08-14-2009 at 11:55 AM.
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 12:21 PM    (permalink
Matthew Jones
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: China
Posts: 13,603
Reputation: 1720442
Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Matthew Jones is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

1. Tennessee Titans - Pretty clear #1 for me. Great tackles, Mawae at center, amazing run blocking.

2. Philadelphia Eagles - I love the new additions, and they already had a quality line last year. This should be better.

3. New York Giants - I have some questions about Diehl, but I love the way they're aggressive in run blocking.

4. Carolina Panthers - Jordan Gross anchors this one, then you've also got Otah, etc. They make Delhomme look good.

5. Baltimore Ravens - Not the biggest Oher fan and they lost Brown but the drop off isn't too bad and they have Gaither.
__________________
Matthew Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 08:08 PM    (permalink
LizardState
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Time Warp, CA
Posts: 5,165
Reputation: 138087
LizardState is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LizardState is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LizardState is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LizardState is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LizardState is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LizardState is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LizardState is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LizardState is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LizardState is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LizardState is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LizardState is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenOfProphecy View Post
1. Tennessee Titans - Pretty clear #1 for me. Great tackles, Mawae at center, amazing run blocking.

2. Philadelphia Eagles - I love the new additions, and they already had a quality line last year. This should be better.

agree with nos. 1 & 2 in principal, Eagles have best talent top to bottom in the NFC if not the league. They had the Human Road Grader in Andrews & a Pro Bowler with Runyan for yrs.

3. New York Giants - I have some questions about Diehl, but I love the way they're aggressive in run blocking. An understatement, Brandon Jacobs owes his continued health to them & those huge freakish holes they have given him. With his weird upright running style he's a 270-lb. RB injury waiting to happen.

4. Carolina Panthers - Jordan Gross anchors this one, then you've also got Otah, etc. They make Delhomme look good. S/B higher, the most unsung of the unsung o-lines. Drafting Gross was golden for them.

5. Baltimore Ravens - Not the biggest Oher fan and they lost Brown but the drop off isn't too bad and they have Gaither. Expected RavenOfProphecy to include the Edgar Allen Poe Birds, but Oher has enormous upside, & they turned in a great playoffs performance last yr.
Honorable mention homer pick for Dallas here too, even though their once mighty o-line has clearly slipped, I'll admit it, largely due to Flozell Adams' lack of intelligence & ability to learn how not to blow the snap count, & lack of a true quality center that launches annual auditions for the job that usually goes to a converted guard like Gurode. You have to include the Cowboys b/c of Columbo alone, he's their catalyst that makes it happen for their offense. Talk about an o-lineman find! And an interior lineman star from Boston College, that formula still holds.

Last edited by LizardState : 08-20-2009 at 09:12 AM.
LizardState is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 08:13 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
The Professor (Hall of Famer)
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 36,096
Reputation: 2295780
bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepThreat View Post
No respect for the Browns? Their only weak spot is at RT, and that should be respectable.
There is nothing respectable about John St. Clair.
__________________


Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.
bearsfan_51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 08:26 PM    (permalink
Sniper
Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 31,593
Reputation: 494719
Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Sniper is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Not sure how good the Eagles' OL will be compared to what it can be if Shawn Andrews keeps being hurt. As much as I like Max Jean-Gilles, I'd rather have Andrews and Andrews over St. Andrews and MJG.
Sniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 11:58 AM    (permalink
Jakey
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,353
Reputation: 198285
Jakey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jakey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jakey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jakey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jakey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jakey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jakey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jakey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jakey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jakey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jakey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Steelers!














































...naaaaaaaaaat!
__________________
Jakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 08:44 PM    (permalink
Malaka
Thinking of Juan
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 4,137
Reputation: 352593
Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Malaka is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I personally don't understand all the man love for the Giants offensive line. It is not the best in the league, id rank it #5 at best.

We are probably the best run blocking unit in the league, but as far as pass protection goes, we're easily middle tier. There are tons of lines better in pass protection than the Giants line.

Our OTs are nothing to brag about in pass protection.

To be the best oline, you have to be great in both the run game, and pass protection.

1. Tennessee
2. Philly
3. Carolina
4. Denver
5. Giants
I feel the same way, though I do believe we are top 5, our pass protection is really unimpressive. I'd rank it just a little bit different.

1. Tennessee Titans
2. Philadelphia Eagles
3. Carolina Panthers
4. New York Giants
5. Minnesota Vikings
__________________

Bone Krusher, the best
Malaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 10:26 PM    (permalink
DeepThreat
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vidae's basement
Posts: 2,079
Reputation: 1267349
DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
There is nothing respectable about John St. Clair.
Who is not at all likely to start.
__________________


Quote:
<@JBond> And Dg, you'd waste it on corndogs
<@JBond> So you get no 5 dollars
<+DG> how is buy one get one free wasting?
Quote:
<+njx9> i'm pretty sure your people still eat boots in north korea, bantx. they don't know what vegetables are.
DeepThreat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 10:52 PM    (permalink
djp
Team Leader
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 16,159
Reputation: 525356
djp is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.djp is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.djp is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.djp is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.djp is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.djp is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.djp is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.djp is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.djp is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.djp is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.djp is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

This thread for whatever reason reminded me of that Chiefs offensive line back in the early 2000's. God that line was sick. Shields, Roaf, Waters, etc
__________________
"Compadres, it is imperative that we crush the freedom fighters before the start of the rainy season. And remember, a shiny new donkey for whomever brings me the head of Colonel Montoya."
djp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 11:07 PM    (permalink
Timbathia
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 996
Reputation: 147248
Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d34ng3l021 View Post
The Broncos, Saints, and Patriots success in pass blocking should largely be accredited to the (previous) QBs of those team. On paper, the Broncos and Saints look great in pass blocking because of the low number of sacks given up, but a lot of that has to do with Cutler and Brees getting rid of the ball quickly. Look at what happened to the Patriots and Saints as an example.

In 578 drop backs during 2007, the offensive line gave up 21 sacks to Tom Brady. In 516 drop backs during 2008, the offensive line gave up 47 sacks to Matt Cassel.

In 2005, the Saints gave up 41 sacks. A year later, they gave up 23 sacks. The difference? Drew Brees.

Let's see how Clady and the Broncos offensive line does with the departure of Jay Cutler before placing them on a top 5 offensive line list. Here is mine:

1. Tennessee Titans - Dominant. Which team gave up the least sacks last year? Who was the least sacked QB in the NFL last year? If you answered the Titans and Kerry frickin Collins, then you are right. Not only that, but the team was #7 in rushing yards. Not shabby.

2. New York Giants - Chemistry over talent. I don't believe that the Giants have the most talented offensive line (that could go to rival Philadelphia), but the way that this offensive line has gelled together to be a great run blocking team and good in pass protection.

3. Carolina Panthers - Balanced. With Gross holding down the left side against pass rushers and Otah mauling other plays on the right, this is one of the best run blocking lines in the NFL.

4. Philadelphia Eagles - Talented. I need to see them play together before I think they are a top 3 unit. Playing together is important for an offensive line so let's see how they do.

5. Ravens/Jets/Vikings
This is a silly argument, and this post highlights it. You give number 1 to the Titans mainly because they gave up equal least number of sacks in the NFL (along with the Broncos). They are a run first, run second, and generally run third team with an incredibly experienced QB (who never tries to do too much and is savvy enough to get rid of the ball quickly when pressured). They are a good unit, and great in run blocking, but based off play calling they shouldnt give up many sacks.

Yet you downgrade the Broncos (out of the top 8 at least) who also gave up 12 sacks despite throwing the ball many many more times than the Titans (when everyone knew they would be throwing most of the time), and also averaged 4.5 yds per carry on the ground. Yes Cutler is quite elusive, but so is Big Ben and he gets sacked every couple of minutes. To pin it all on Cutler means you never watched a single Broncos game last year. The o-line were dominant, despite a ton or pressure and Cutler holding on to the ball on many occasions looking for a big play. Yes Orton will take a lot more sacks this year than Cutler did, but it will be due to the new offense he is trying to get a grasp on and wont be due to the o-line not doing its job.

you also give the third spot to a team you have said in your post that you havent seen play!!!!!!!! Is everyone in here just guessing at which line is the best based off stats and names or has anyone actually taken any notice whatsoever of how the o-lines play in real life?
Timbathia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 11:15 PM    (permalink
Timbathia
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 996
Reputation: 147248
Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Timbathia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

To clarify I think this debate is silly as very few people appear to have anywhere near enough knowledge and appropriate criteria to assess the o-lines. I dont mean that I think the poster I quoted is silly. There appears to be a ton of homerism in peoples lists.
Timbathia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 11:31 PM    (permalink
Vikes99ej
Icon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sioux Falls
Posts: 16,635
Reputation: 314354
Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Vikes99ej is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

1) Giants
2) Titans
3) Vikings
4) Patriots
5) Eagles
Vikes99ej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2009, 11:42 PM    (permalink
senormysterioso
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,547
Reputation: 330949
senormysterioso is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.senormysterioso is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.senormysterioso is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.senormysterioso is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.senormysterioso is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.senormysterioso is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.senormysterioso is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.senormysterioso is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.senormysterioso is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.senormysterioso is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.senormysterioso is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepThreat View Post
No respect for the Browns? Their only weak spot is at RT, and that should be respectable.
I know it's preseason, but their line got brutalized by the Packers first team even without Raji and Matthews. They looked sad.
senormysterioso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2009, 12:39 AM    (permalink
wogitalia
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 3,777
Reputation: 408368
wogitalia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wogitalia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wogitalia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wogitalia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wogitalia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wogitalia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wogitalia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wogitalia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wogitalia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wogitalia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wogitalia is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Vikings should not be on this list.

Hutch is a superstar.

Effectively a rookie center, rookie RT, journeyman(for good reason) RG and a LT who can't block anyone with above average speed. That is not a top 5 line.
__________________


Props to BK on the sig!
wogitalia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2009, 08:37 AM    (permalink
DeepThreat
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vidae's basement
Posts: 2,079
Reputation: 1267349
DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeepThreat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by senormysterioso View Post
I know it's preseason, but their line got brutalized by the Packers first team even without Raji and Matthews. They looked sad.
I can't argue with this. But, it wasn't the two guys on the left's fault. It was the two on the right, one of whom isn't expected to start.
__________________


Quote:
<@JBond> And Dg, you'd waste it on corndogs
<@JBond> So you get no 5 dollars
<+DG> how is buy one get one free wasting?
Quote:
<+njx9> i'm pretty sure your people still eat boots in north korea, bantx. they don't know what vegetables are.
DeepThreat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.