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Old 08-25-2009, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Danny Amendola, in his rookie camp with the Cowboys said he could write out the entire Tech playbook on the back of a napkin because it was essentially 4-5 WRs running around trying to get open.
Yeah it's not really that complex. If it was a lot of HS won't be implementing it. I guess when you think of a system that is functional, successful, and easy to master, this one is the system that should come to mind. You can run this at all levels from middle school to d1, like TT does.

The reads and progressions are constant and the pass protections are all big on big, so you can teach a HS kid or middle schooler, block big on big, the guy in front of you. And teach the QB to read the deepest route, down to the least deepest route. That's pretty much it. Then their a bunch of different concepts which you use and it can produce Wrs like Wes Welker, Crabtree, and Qbs like those in T.T.

It's a fun offense though. If I were to coach or be an OC any level I would take a lot of the concepts from this system, and perhaps mix it, but the ease of grasping it and implementing it is a major plus!
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Old 08-25-2009, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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That was interesting what Rivers said to sports illustrated. He makes great points.

Yeah, Rivers pocket presence has greatly improved. I just want to see him more fluid in there. He still looks a little stiff doing it. He's lucky to have a checkdown like LT, it definitely helps when youre in trouble as a qb to have a guy like that to throw it down to and watch the YAC.

I also have noticed his arm strength has improved. He looks like he's getting more power from his feet on those long throws these days. Those out patterns though, it could be an issue in windy conditions. But he plays in SD, theres no worries there unless he gets a tough break on the road.

All in all, I think he's a stud qb. I think all 3 qbs from that class are great.
Strangely enough, he didn't have that great of a connection with LT last year in terms of checkdowns. They always seem to be off in their timing. Either was too early with the ball or LT was a second too late in seeing the ball. Rivers' checkdown was mainly to the FB (Tolbert or Hester) and Sproles (whenever he was in the game)
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Old 08-25-2009, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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Danny Amendola, in his rookie camp with the Cowboys said he could write out the entire Tech playbook on the back of a napkin because it was essentially 4-5 WRs running around trying to get open.
Speaking of...I still cant believe there are so many people still on his jock. Every article I read focusing on him has the phase, "Wes Welker starter kit" in there somewhere. ugh. People need to give that a rest already.
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Old 08-26-2009, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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Speaking of...I still cant believe there are so many people still on his jock. Every article I read focusing on him has the phase, "Wes Welker starter kit" in there somewhere. ugh. People need to give that a rest already.
Who is that guy? A player?
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Old 08-26-2009, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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I don't see Tech's system working in the NFL at all. Its way too pass oriented, and theres way too much space in between linemen. An NFL team will shoot those gaps and get in your qb's face on every throw. You'd need 4 quarterbacks because you'd be on your 4th one by the end of the game.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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I don't see Tech's system working in the NFL at all. Its way too pass oriented, and theres way too much space in between linemen. An NFL team will shoot those gaps and get in your qb's face on every throw. You'd need 4 quarterbacks because you'd be on your 4th one by the end of the game.
I'd have to disagree with that. I don't think the defense would create as much pressure as you think. Remember that there are 4 or 5 set out wide. It'd be a very spread field making it easy for the QB to read the defense, pre-snap. Someone like Peyton Manning would pick a defense apart in that offense, imo.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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I'd have to disagree with that. I don't think the defense would create as much pressure as you think. Remember that there are 4 or 5 set out wide. It'd be a very spread field making it easy for the QB to read the defense, pre-snap. Someone like Peyton Manning would pick a defense apart in that offense, imo.
not really. if you just press these guys at the line, with the way they pass protect, youd be throwing in traffic quite often. mismatches in the NFL aren't as severe as college and high school. you can't just pick on that one duck like you can in the lower levels.

and anything beyond 2 seconds will get that qb killed.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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I don't see Tech's system working in the NFL at all. Its way too pass oriented, and theres way too much space in between linemen. An NFL team will shoot those gaps and get in your qb's face on every throw. You'd need 4 quarterbacks because you'd be on your 4th one by the end of the game.
No, it's big on big blocking.. If they shoot the gap, you can really take adv. of screens by letting them come.. That part of the design is pretty sound. If the system had huge flaws like that, it wouldn't even make it. Plus you have NFL OL as well. It's not like they have NFL DL and you have D1 college line. It equals out BBD.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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not really. if you just press these guys at the line, with the way they pass protect, youd be throwing in traffic quite often. mismatches in the NFL aren't as severe as college and high school. you can't just pick on that one duck like you can in the lower levels.

and anything beyond 2 seconds will get that qb killed.
Go ahead and press, I will use motion to get off it, and you better be 4-5 CB deep, because I will own you if try blitzing me. Mismatches in the NFL aren't as prevelant as in the college level, but they are still there. That's when scheme and the Xs and Os take over, more so. You need a way to bring out the mismatch via Xs and O to strike that competitive edge.

The QB will def. take hits, but if the OL is good enough at the NFL level, it may just be like Warner in the Air. C. system getting beat around. If your QB is as tough, then perhaps it could work.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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No, it's big on big blocking.. If they shoot the gap, you can really take adv. of screens by letting them come.. That part of the design is pretty sound. If the system had huge flaws like that, it wouldn't even make it. Plus you have NFL OL as well. It's not like they have NFL DL and you have D1 college line. It equals out BBD.
i just don't see it. fine, in that one instance, it works. but youre not gonna call screen passes all game. the quickness of an NFL dline is just way too fast for those gaps to not be exposed.

youd need Vick like mobility out of your qb with pass protection like that. and that still won't account for throwing it so much in traffic. you can't get away with those kind of throws for an entire drive.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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Go ahead and press, I will use motion to get off it, and you better be 4-5 CB deep, because I will own you if try blitzing me. Mismatches in the NFL aren't as prevelant as in the college level, but they are still there. That's when scheme and the Xs and Os take over, more so. You need a way to bring out the mismatch via Xs and O to strike that competitive edge.

The QB will def. take hits, but if the OL is good enough at the NFL level, it may just be like Warner in the Air. C. system getting beat around. If your QB is as tough, then perhaps it could work.
free release plays....another thing Gilbride doesn't do with our WRs who clearly could benefit from it...*sigh*

that wouldn't matter though, I think zone blitz would work very well against this front. stunting linemen would too.

you don't think the Giants dline would slap around any NFL offensive line who tried spacing out like that? they'd salivate at the chance.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Speaking of...I still cant believe there are so many people still on his jock. Every article I read focusing on him has the phase, "Wes Welker starter kit" in there somewhere. ugh. People need to give that a rest already.
I dont like him, just remembering something he said, is all.

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Yeah it's not really that complex. If it was a lot of HS won't be implementing it.
Well, the reason Graham Harrell was so successful in Lubbock is due to his HS (Ennis) running the exact same offense, so of course he was perfectly suited for it... even if he was almost benched before Crabs came on to the scene.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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I dont like him, just remembering something he said, is all.

Well, the reason Graham Harrell was so successful in Lubbock is due to his HS (Ennis) running the exact same offense, so of course he was perfectly suited for it... even if he was almost benched before Crabs came on to the scene.
That's good that they started running that at the HS level in Texas. Here in NJ, it's still in it's infancy phase. I don't see a lot of teams in NJ picking up on it. That's pretty cool for Leach then to simply work that HS program as a minor league feeder for his D1.

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i just don't see it. fine, in that one instance, it works. but youre not gonna call screen passes all game. the quickness of an NFL dline is just way too fast for those gaps to not be exposed.

youd need Vick like mobility out of your qb with pass protection like that. and that still won't account for throwing it so much in traffic. you can't get away with those kind of throws for an entire drive.

Hey whatever works. As we offensive coaches say, we take what the defense give us. You adjust to us! And we will simply find something that works, and if you keep giving us a certain look, I have no qualms of working the same concept until your D adjusts to me.

Not Vick like mobility, you just need mobile OL players, like the WCO offensive type OL. One major thing is you do realize the Air Raid has a lot of short passes build in. It isn't the run and shoot we are talking here. So all I need is a few seconds to get the ball out. Just because it's in the spread offense family doesn't mean I am throwing 20 yard passes all game long.


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free release plays....another thing Gilbride doesn't do with our WRs who clearly could benefit from it...*sigh*

that wouldn't matter though, I think zone blitz would work very well against this front. stunting linemen would too.

you don't think the Giants dline would slap around any NFL offensive line who tried spacing out like that? they'd salivate at the chance.

Well we probably get off the press easily, because our guys see it with our defense, so he may not think to do it as much. Also, we have a lot of choice routes in our system, so we probably key on the technique of the CB, and coverage being played to dictate the route supposed to being ran.


It could work out well, but how did the 3 step drop work against us? The Brown and Eagles later on ripped us a new butthole doing that. Why risk holding the ball, when on a 3 step drop the ball is out? It tires the DL, and frustrates them because they can't get those sacks.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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a 3 step drop in that system is much different from a 3 step drop in a WCO. with those spaces between those linemen, the WR won't get open off the press before pressure gets in the qb's face in the Tech system.

thats why i keep saying youre gonna be throwing in traffic a lot. bc you will, no matter how nice your WR core is.

thats gonna get a lot of WRs and qbs hurt. in a 16 game NFL season, I just don't see that system holding up. I can see it work sort of like the wildcat, where you run it a couple of snaps a game, but as a base offense, I can't see it working.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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a 3 step drop in that system is much different from a 3 step drop in a WCO. with those spaces between those linemen, the WR won't get open off the press before pressure gets in the qb's face in the Tech system.

thats why i keep saying youre gonna be throwing in traffic a lot. bc you will, no matter how nice your WR core is.

thats gonna get a lot of WRs and qbs hurt. in a 16 game NFL season, I just don't see that system holding up. I can see it work sort of like the wildcat, where you run it a couple of snaps a game, but as a base offense, I can't see it working.
It's actually better because the QB is already in shotgun. So all he needs is quick 3 steps and the ball is out. Not only that you have roll out protection, Sprint out protection, and the QB can run it himself as well.

You have a lot of WR motion too. No OC will keep his guys stationary if he feels the WRs can't get off the jam. On top of that, not all the teams will keep playing press coverage. You wouldn't run this system like the wildcat, because it's not a gimic formation. It's more of a system and perhaps passing concepts you can use in other systems, but there is nothing available to borrow for a play or two.


I don't think it will become popular because of the concepts being run, unless you add more to it. That's my reason, but the system flaws you are pointing out, aren't a big deal. If it was that bad, this system would get destroyed by elite D 1 teams, instead, this system is one of the best passing systems in the game at the college level. What is attractive about this system is the ease of implementation at all levels.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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this is interesting. im gonna do more hw on this scheme.
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Old 08-26-2009, 10:56 AM    (permalink
Splat
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This thread has gotting all X's and O's. :)
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
this is interesting. im gonna do more hw on this scheme.
PM me or bump my Xs and Os thread up. I have everything from TT's playbook to coaches articles on the system. I did all the stuff on this when I was coaching couple years back.

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This thread has gotting all X's and O's.
In my opinion, that's the fun stuff to talk about. The other stat throwing non sense bores me. This is, of course in my personal opinion, is a lot more fun, and interesting.

Last edited by NY+Giants=NYG : 08-26-2009 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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Who is that guy? A player?
Amendola? He's an undrafted, undersized possession receiver with a little quickness from Texas Tech. Plus he's white, so people instantly thought, the next Wes Welker. But honestly, their skill sets dont compare at all. They just both went to Tech. Even after getting cut by Dallas last year for doing nothing of note in camp, I still here these ludicrous Welker comparisons out of Philly's camp. ugh.
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Old 08-26-2009, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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Amendola? He's an undrafted, undersized possession receiver with a little quickness from Texas Tech. Plus he's white, so people instantly thought, the next Wes Welker. But honestly, their skill sets dont compare at all. They just both went to Tech. Even after getting cut by Dallas last year for doing nothing of note in camp, I still here these ludicrous Welker comparisons out of Philly's camp. ugh.
LOL. He is still on the team? I will have to keep an eye out for him I guess.
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Old 08-27-2009, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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Hate to take this thread on topic but here's an great interview with Rivers

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

Here's a good quote

Cole: Three years ago, the feeling was clear that this was LaDainian Tomlinson’s(notes) team – that he was the leader and one of the biggest athletes in Chargers history. Now it appears that you’re the guy and LT is being phased out. What’s your take on that? Are you careful about that image?

Rivers: I believe that’s a fabricated term. I think that’s a media term about whose team it is. I don’t think it’s anybody’s team. It’s our team. There are a lot of guys in here who have played here a long time that have meant a lot to the organization, so I don’t think that we as players see it that way. You hear it. It gets tagged that way in every city, but I don’t think it’s really like that. I don’t feel that way, anyway. It just doesn’t, from a leadership standpoint, make sense. Your role as a quarterback is to have certain responsibilities anyway, and as you progress through your career that continues to grow. As a player now, do I feel more responsibility as a leader than I did as a three-year player? Yes. But it grows on different guys at different times. But as far as the phrase “whose team,” I’ve never looked at it this way. From LT and my standpoint, it has never been brought up, never discussed. I’ve never felt any tension there.

And another question that pertains to what BBD said earlier:

Cole: It’s funny, but when you were coming out of North Carolina State, the belief was that with your accuracy and perceived lack of arm strength you would have been better suited for a West Cost-type offense that highlighted the shorter game.

Rivers: I think it has allowed me to progress as a passer, and we still mix in some of the shorter stuff. But now I feel like I’m more of a complete passer. Not that I couldn’t throw it deep, but that’s what we did in college with that high-percentage throwing game. We’d dink and dunk all the way down the field, but now I feel like we have the whole deal.

Last edited by Xenos : 08-27-2009 at 05:18 PM.
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