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Old 03-01-2007, 03:21 PM    (permalink
BehrenMan007
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if the pick is on the 1st day, seems like a lot to get bly. but if its like a 6th, it seems good for both teams
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Old 03-01-2007, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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if the pick is on the 1st day, seems like a lot to get bly. but if its like a 6th, it seems good for both teams
The pick is a 5th round pick.
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Old 03-01-2007, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Taking Thomas would have been expensive for our O-line with Woody's high salary, Backus's big contract and Thomas with number 2 money. It's still possible but our O-line would be making a ton of money and one person would be out of position at guard. Possibly Thomas, then Thomas eventually moving over to LT once Backus is gone.

That being said we still neeed a LG badly. If we take Thomas, we will have a very expensive Left Guard in either Backus or Thomas. Personally, I could see us taking a left guard in Round 2 or Round 3 and I think are line will be in much better shape than last year if they stay healthy.

Backus,Grubbs(if we're lucky),Raiola,Woody,Foster looks a whole lot better than last years

Backus,Verba/DeMulling/another overpaid FA,Raiola,Woody(onIR),Tucker/Scott
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Old 03-01-2007, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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I think that the trade works out for both sides.. Denver gets a cornerback opposite Champ, and Lions get depth at the rb and o-line and fills some needs headed into the offseason.
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Old 03-01-2007, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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the trade is perfect for both teams, the lions got OL depth and a possible starter at RT who didnt fit the zone blocking scheme, but could fit the lions scheme. same with tatum bell, he fit the zone blocking scheme to some extent but the lions didnt trade for bell to be the starter, they want him to be the backup RB behind jones and be a replacement if jones isnt healthy in time, plus they got a 5th rounder. Now the broncos fill a need at the CB position and have one of the top secondarys in the league. Bly is a perfect fit for denver and will get at least 6 ints this season, mark my words. Not being the #1 corner will help him too, hes a perfect compliment to champ bailey.
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Old 03-01-2007, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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Good trade on both sides, it seems. Positives and negatives on both sides kinda cancel out.
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Old 03-01-2007, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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i'm honestly in shock at how many people think detroit got great players. i think they made a great deal getting rid of a guy who didn't want to be there and didn't have a place there, but then, tatum bell has been FAR uglier than his stats would lead you to believe and foster is a back-up linemen for a team that regularly takes 7th round and undrafted players and turns them into a top unit. they may fit better in detroit, but it's utterly ridiculous for ANYONE to believe they've been quality players at any point in their respective careers.

that said, anyone who calls this a top CB tandem because we added dre bly is, imo, a bit misguided right now.

to call this anything other than a trade of convenience for both teams (getting rid of driftwood that would've been cut otherwise) is silly.
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Old 03-01-2007, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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i'm honestly in shock at how many people think detroit got great players. i think they made a great deal getting rid of a guy who didn't want to be there and didn't have a place there, but then, tatum bell has been FAR uglier than his stats would lead you to believe and foster is a back-up linemen for a team that regularly takes 7th round and undrafted players and turns them into a top unit. they may fit better in detroit, but it's utterly ridiculous for ANYONE to believe they've been quality players at any point in their respective careers.

that said, anyone who calls this a top CB tandem because we added dre bly is, imo, a bit misguided right now.

to call this anything other than a trade of convenience for both teams (getting rid of driftwood that would've been cut otherwise) is silly.
Pretty much. This trade is simply a case of one man's trash being another man's treasure for both sides. Both teams should be happy that they got anything for the players they gave up, because, as you said, they weren't really worth anything anyways.
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Old 03-01-2007, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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exactly. i'm a bit more annoyed with it now that we've given up a 5th as well, but to get anything for bell/foster is a good thing, imo. i know (from this thread) that lions fans feel the same way about bly.
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Old 03-01-2007, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Good trades on both parts in my opinion
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Old 03-01-2007, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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I could most definately see Denver trading up for Lynch now much like they did for Cutler.
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Old 03-01-2007, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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one can only hope. i only see it happening if snyder decides to pick up when shanahan calls him, or lynch's times result in him dropping to 15 or so.
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Old 03-01-2007, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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their secondary is one of the tops in the league, along with their LB's, if only their Dline didnt suck so bad.if they traded up for Lynch they would be unstoppable

P.S. they are now the best madden team
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Old 03-01-2007, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i'm honestly in shock at how many people think detroit got great players. i think they made a great deal getting rid of a guy who didn't want to be there and didn't have a place there, but then, tatum bell has been FAR uglier than his stats would lead you to believe and foster is a back-up linemen for a team that regularly takes 7th round and undrafted players and turns them into a top unit. they may fit better in detroit, but it's utterly ridiculous for ANYONE to believe they've been quality players at any point in their respective careers.

that said, anyone who calls this a top CB tandem because we added dre bly is, imo, a bit misguided right now.

to call this anything other than a trade of convenience for both teams (getting rid of driftwood that would've been cut otherwise) is silly.
I couldn't disagree more.

Can you honestly tell me that George Foster isn't an upgrade over what the Lions currently have at RT? No... you cannot. As much as you may think that Foster is a "back-up linemen" (although he started 45 of a possible 48 games for the Broncos over the last three years... on an offensive line that is known to turn any player into a 1,000+ yard back), Foster is a definate upgrade and will improve the unit GREATLY. That gives the Lions a potential line of Backus-[---]-Raiola-Woody-Foster, which is a solid line... and much improved from last year, when the Lions' offense actually performed well (with names such as Frank Davis, Jon Scott, Stephen Peterman and Rick DeMulling *starting* games for the Lions).

This also changes their focus for the draft. Now that they've filled one hole, they can focus on improving other areas.

Now, onto Bell. With KJones out, Bell was the PERFECT pick-up for the Lions. They could've spent a draft pick on a young back (which would leave them two young, unproven backs), or gotten rid of one of the last "trash" pieces of the old Lions to improve two areas of need. Bell will thrive in Martz' offense... and will give the Lions a powerful 1-2 punch when Jones is healthy.

Bly. When he plays in a system that fits his talents, he is a playmaker. You MIGHT have forgotten his previous seasons... but he had great numbers and deserved his spots in those Pro Bowls. Paired with Bailey, they will form a great CB duo... you won't want to throw to one but will get picked throwing to the other.

You can pretend that this trade was simply a "convenicence", but you will be proven wrong. The Broncos secondary will be much improved with Bly and the Lions offense will be much improved with Bell/Foster.
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Old 03-01-2007, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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ok i get it, i hear foster isnt that good, but trust me, even if he ends up a backup, hes better than any olineman backups we got. including the now cut ross verba. i personally hope he just is a backup with depth and jonathan scott is the starter. this just helps us not have to draft another rookie OLman
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Old 03-01-2007, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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I couldn't disagree more.
yippee... i get to argue with someone who's likely barely seen foster or bell play. this should be fun.

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Can you honestly tell me that George Foster isn't an upgrade over what the Lions currently have at RT? No... you cannot.
which has what, exactly, to do with anything i said? i said that certain people were making it sounds as if the lions were getting a bunch of studs for nothing from denver. which is stupid. regardless...

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As much as you may think that Foster is a "back-up linemen" (although he started 45 of a possible 48 games for the Broncos over the last three years... on an offensive line that is known to turn any player into a 1,000+ yard back)
which he was, for the second half of this season. oh wait, except for when injuries forced him back into the starting line-up. but yeah, shanny just pulled him for fun at mid-season then plugged him back in because he's actually an incredible RT. i must've missed where meadows injury left us with no viable alternative.

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Foster is a definate upgrade and will improve the unit GREATLY.
wonderful. your o-line was a joke. the fact that a guy we would have cut improves it does not make this some incredible swindle by matt millen. it means your o-line was pathetic and likely could've been similarly improved by several guys already on the market.

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That gives the Lions a potential line of Backus-[---]-Raiola-Woody-Foster, which is a solid line... and much improved from last year, when the Lions' offense actually performed well (with names such as Frank Davis, Jon Scott, Stephen Peterman and Rick DeMulling *starting* games for the Lions).
hooray. again, the fact that your o-line sucks does not mean you nabbed a superstar for nothing from denver (the whole point of my comment).

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This also changes their focus for the draft. Now that they've filled one hole, they can focus on improving other areas.
again, you're arguing irrelevant material.

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Now, onto Bell. With KJones out, Bell was the PERFECT pick-up for the Lions. They could've spent a draft pick on a young back (which would leave them two young, unproven backs), or gotten rid of one of the last "trash" pieces of the old Lions to improve two areas of need. Bell will thrive in Martz' offense... and will give the Lions a powerful 1-2 punch when Jones is healthy.
what tatum bell have you been watching that you think will do anything anywhere near "thrive" in martz's system? he doesn't catch particularly well. he's injury prone. he fumbles every time you give him the ball in a key situation. and none of that had to do with the fact that he has very little vision. regardless.

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Bly. When he plays in a system that fits his talents, he is a playmaker. You MIGHT have forgotten his previous seasons... but he had great numbers and deserved his spots in those Pro Bowls. Paired with Bailey, they will form a great CB duo... you won't want to throw to one but will get picked throwing to the other.
deltha o'neal had great stats, too. and he also got burned twice for every pick he had in his pro bowl season in denver. i've learned to look past the pretty numbers. further, from what i've heard, bly is a similar player. he'll gamble and come up big, or gamble and get burned badly. he's a starting CB in the league, but i think anyone who believes he's made our pass defense astronomically better is drinking some seriously strong kool-aid.

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You can pretend that this trade was simply a "convenicence", but you will be proven wrong. The Broncos secondary will be much improved with Bly and the Lions offense will be much improved with Bell/Foster.
how was it anything but when ALL THREE players were likely cut? again, bly does not, in my mind, represent a massive upgrade over foxworth. tatum bell isn't even an expected starter. and george foster was awful here.

i'm not going to say all three will be worthless players next year, but past history can't lead you to many other conclusions about bell and foster, and past history doesn't show me anything special in bly.
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Old 03-01-2007, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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It's a pretty even trade, which you can tell from both sides thinking they clearly got the better of it.

Denver fans, let me tell you something. Bly will get you a handful of picks and may take a couple to the house, but believe me, when you see him get torched by 4 or 5 yards on a fly pattern for a TD, or let his man catch a ball in front of him and miss the tackle letting him go for a huge gain, or give up 8 catches for 100+ yards to a #2 receiver, then you will know that you didn't get what you thought you were getting. Bly has always done this, even his first year or two here. He will likely be better in a better overall secondary, but he not a shut down corner. Not even close.
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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yippee... i get to argue with someone who's likely barely seen foster or bell play. this should be fun.



which has what, exactly, to do with anything i said? i said that certain people were making it sounds as if the lions were getting a bunch of studs for nothing from denver. which is stupid. regardless...



which he was, for the second half of this season. oh wait, except for when injuries forced him back into the starting line-up. but yeah, shanny just pulled him for fun at mid-season then plugged him back in because he's actually an incredible RT. i must've missed where meadows injury left us with no viable alternative.



wonderful. your o-line was a joke. the fact that a guy we would have cut improves it does not make this some incredible swindle by matt millen. it means your o-line was pathetic and likely could've been similarly improved by several guys already on the market.



hooray. again, the fact that your o-line sucks does not mean you nabbed a superstar for nothing from denver (the whole point of my comment).



again, you're arguing irrelevant material.



what tatum bell have you been watching that you think will do anything anywhere near "thrive" in martz's system? he doesn't catch particularly well. he's injury prone. he fumbles every time you give him the ball in a key situation. and none of that had to do with the fact that he has very little vision. regardless.



deltha o'neal had great stats, too. and he also got burned twice for every pick he had in his pro bowl season in denver. i've learned to look past the pretty numbers. further, from what i've heard, bly is a similar player. he'll gamble and come up big, or gamble and get burned badly. he's a starting CB in the league, but i think anyone who believes he's made our pass defense astronomically better is drinking some seriously strong kool-aid.



how was it anything but when ALL THREE players were likely cut? again, bly does not, in my mind, represent a massive upgrade over foxworth. tatum bell isn't even an expected starter. and george foster was awful here.

i'm not going to say all three will be worthless players next year, but past history can't lead you to many other conclusions about bell and foster, and past history doesn't show me anything special in bly.
I'm not going to waste time arguing opinions or against your ego. Foster WAS a starter for the Broncos for quite some time... and did it when Denver made "anyone a 1,000+ back". He started each game for two years for that OLine... if he played "awful" in Denver, why do I feel he would've been replaced long ago? Interesting...

You "look past the pretty numbers"... and right to your worthless opinions. The facts are there: in a system that Bly can play in, he's a Pro Bowl corner; Foster constantly played on an OLine known for its dominance; and Bell is a talented, young back that has a career 4.9 average yards per carry and will complement the Lions' offense... with and without Jones. Each player will improve their new team, which is all that really matters.

So, no... this trade was not just a "trade of convenience"... it was a great move by both teams.
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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As much as I hate Denver I have to give it up they make moves.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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I'm not going to waste time arguing opinions or against your ego. Foster WAS a starter for the Broncos for quite some time... and did it when Denver made "anyone a 1,000+ back". He started each game for two years for that OLine... if he played "awful" in Denver, why do I feel he would've been replaced long ago? Interesting...

You "look past the pretty numbers"... and right to your worthless opinions. The facts are there: in a system that Bly can play in, he's a Pro Bowl corner; Foster constantly played on an OLine known for its dominance; and Bell is a talented, young back that has a career 4.9 average yards per carry and will complement the Lions' offense... with and without Jones. Each player will improve their new team, which is all that really matters.

So, no... this trade was not just a "trade of convenience"... it was a great move by both teams.
arguing with my "ego" because i've actually, you know, watched two of the players? nice cop out. i can't imagine why foster was starting his second and third year in the league. maybe because he was a first round pick and the guy who'd started before him was ephraim salaam? no, i'm wrong. it must've been because he was stellar and i'm just too blind/stupid to see what you clearly saw in him by not watching him play. excellent analysis. maybe sometime you'll stop by the broncos board and tell me all about a team you don't watch and even better, you'll base it off a single statistic.

but then, jake plummer must be an utterly amazing starting quarterback, given that he started all but 5 games he could've started since he got to denver.

you're "argument" essentially boils down to yelling "your opinions suck!!! i have stats!!!! hahahaha!!!! you're opinion is worthless solely because i say it is!!!!"

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Old 03-01-2007, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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Bly's probably going to rack up the interceptions this season now that he's the "weak link" out of the two CB's. He is great at breaking up plays so he'll be interesting to watch this season.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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TacticaLion: Ephraim Salaam was a starter for the Broncos offensive line for a few years, and he's one of the worst offensive linemen I've ever seen. The Broncos keep lineman that they like for awhile (Nalen, Lepsis, etc).
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:44 PM    (permalink
TacticaLion
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
TacticaLion: Ephraim Salaam was a starter for the Broncos offensive line for a few years, and he's one of the worst offensive linemen I've ever seen. The Broncos keep lineman that they like for awhile (Nalen, Lepsis, etc).
I'm just suprised that a team can do what Denver has done (make a 1,000+ yard rusher out of anyone) yet the players on the offensive line aren't credited. He started 45 of 48 games for that unit, yet njx9 refers to him as a "back-up" and that he's not a "quality" player.

Whatever.

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Originally Posted by njx9
you're "argument" essentially boils down to yelling "your opinions suck!!! i have stats!!!! hahahaha!!!! you're opinion is worthless solely because i say it is!!!!"
That may be true, but having stats/a logical reason for something holds more weight than saying "I know more than you about everything, so you're wrong".

njx9 is the Mel Kiper of NFLDC.com (pre-combine)... without the hair and useful information. He just says **** to get attention.
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-01-2007, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Id like a Denver fans opinion. Does this trade open up trading routes for possibly Julius Jones (I dunno if hes on the block or not, but i heard a rumor that he was) or Willis McGahee?
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