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Old 01-17-2009, 07:24 AM    (permalink
wicket
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Originally Posted by StaticGator View Post
QB: Drew Brees
RB: Michael Turner
FB: Ovie Mughelli
WR: Roddy White
WR: Steve Smith
TE: none worth mentioning
LT: Jammal Brown
LG: Justin Blalock
C: Jeff Faine
RG: Jahri Evans
RT: Jeff Otah

DE: John Abraham
DT: Jonathan Babineaux
NT: Maake Kemoeatu
DE: Julius Peppers
SLB: Jon Beason
MLB: Barrett Ruud
WLB: Thomas Davis
SS: Jermaine Phillips
FS: Tanard Jackson
CB: Chris Gamble
CB: Chris Houston
Since Jahri Evans imo should be in the pro bowl im really happy finally seeing someone put him in the all nfc south team. Even as a saints fan i'd take gross over brown. I do however think that both vilma and ellis should have a shot at the team, perhaps karney as well if he where fit durng some period in the season.
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by wicket View Post
Since Jahri Evans imo should be in the pro bowl im really happy finally seeing someone put him in the all nfc south team. Even as a saints fan i'd take gross over brown. I do however think that both vilma and ellis should have a shot at the team, perhaps karney as well if he where fit durng some period in the season.
While Gross may or may not have had a better season than Brown, my concern is that Gross has flipped between left and right tackle every year he's been in the league, where Brown has been steady at left tackle and only left tackle for some time now.
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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Jamaal Brown sucks now. Gross was one of the better LTs this season.

And Vilma gets in over which top 5 MLB? Ruud or Beason?
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Old 02-01-2009, 03:09 AM    (permalink
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Williams is like a 10x better RB than Turner, but I'd take Turner on my team every time. Williams is inconsistent, while Turner will always give your team a fighting chance.

In 2 years, gimme Stewart over both.
Weeks 2, 4, 6 and the playoff game disagree

Not going to get in a pissing match there, though. I'd put DeAngelo and Turner on the same pedestal right now. Different styles (and Turner's is preferable I agree), but I think they come out equally valuable in the end. Now, which one is going to hold up better next season is another debate...

other Panther notes: First off, no one cares who the #2 WR behind Stevonne is so just flip a coin because it doesn't matter :D

I'm not going to contest Mughelli at FB but Brad Hoover really stepped up this season as a legit run blocker. Really surprised the hell out of me since he's been more of an oversized RB playing FB his entire career, and in decline the past few seasons, then comes out stoning guys cold last year

Otah should be at RT. The difference in our run game when he was in and out was night and day.

And if Ken Lucas is in consideration for one of the CB slots let's just say Drew Brees and Matt Ryan's stats might be a little overinflated. Also makes you wonder how the hell Jake Delhomme is still hanging onto his job
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Old 05-15-2009, 12:22 AM    (permalink
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Well, guys, it sucks but the All-NFC South team played the All-NFC North team and were creamed. It was the most lopsided vote out of all the matchups.

One thing that I realized is that this division has really weak DT's.
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:10 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by diabsoule View Post
Well, guys, it sucks but the All-NFC South team played the All-NFC North team and were creamed. It was the most lopsided vote out of all the matchups.

One thing that I realized is that this division has really weak DT's.
A lot of other defensive positions too man. OLB is fairly lacking; our 4 best LBs (at least 3) LBs are all MLB. Our best CBs are Richard Marshall and Chris Gamble? Don't get me wrong, they are a great young duo for one team, but for a division? Same goes for safeties (but we have a pretty solid group.

Our offense is most likely the best among divisions though. Drew Brees (Matt Ryan in clutch situations) having the option to throw to Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Antonio Bryant, Roddy White, Tony Gonzalez, Kellen Winslow, Jerious Norwood, Reggie Bush while the runningbacks consist of Michael Turner and DeAngelo Williams. That is so insane
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:20 AM    (permalink
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I know I missed the boat a little on the White vs Bryant debate, but from looking at it now I just had a couple thoughts.

Basically the issue is not production, but ability - Bucs fans are saying Bryant has more ability than White. And it's difficult to really answer that definitively, but what you can do is imagine how Bryant would do in White's place, and I look at it this way:

Arguments over who was triple or double teamed are hard to sort out, because unless both sides sit down with the same tape the information is lopsided - unless you watched as many snaps as the Bucs fans here, you can't just say 'Bryant wasn't double and triple teamed'. Bryant put up 6 100 yard games this year, including a 200 yard game @ Carolina - when there isn't another offensive threat, be it running or passing, anyone that brushes off the idea of double or even triple teaming that player isn't thinking. But like I said, it's hard to prove anything there. So we can rely on stats, which for all their other faults, are at least objective. If someone puts up X yards you cannot say they didn't.

People point to White's production in 2007 with a bad team and several journeyman quarterbacks. He had 83 catches for 1,202 yards @ 14.5 y/c and 6 TDs. Antonio Bryant, with several journeyman QBs this year (with significantly weaker arms - whatever you say about Harrington and Leftwich they can throw a deep ball better than Garcia and Griese. This is by default, since the latter two QBs are unable to do so at all) and without being the primary target until several weeks into the season, racked up 83 catches for 1,248 yards @ 15.0 y/c and 7 TDs. Better in each respect.

If you compare those stats to White's stats this year: 88 catches for 1,382 yards @ 15.7 y/c and 7 TDs. White put those up as the no.1 target right from the start, with the no.2 rushing attack in the NFL, and arguably the greatest rookie QB performance in history from a QB who can make all the throws, something Garcia and Griese could never claim. How did Bryant do? As etk said, 5 less catches, for the same number of TDs.

I'm trying to be objective here, and I find it difficult to think that Bryant would not have done better than White if he had been in White's shoes this year. Which is a pretty good measure of talent - 'in the same circumstances, who would do better'.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:08 AM    (permalink
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Lmao.

Ok.

This arguement is far too ridiculous to argue about.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:14 AM    (permalink
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Lmao.

Ok.

This arguement is far too ridiculous to argue about.
Why bother posting such a redundant comment? In what way is the argument ridiculous at all?
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:18 AM    (permalink
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The only fans who believe Bryant is better than White are Bucs fans. The aruement is one sided until Bryant either proves he can produce for more than one year or at least stay on one team for an extended about of time.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:46 AM    (permalink
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The only fans who believe Bryant is better than White are Bucs fans. The aruement is one sided until Bryant either proves he can produce for more than one year or at least stay on one team for an extended about of time.
I have one question. If Bryant put up the same or similar statistics this season what would your opinion be?
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:47 AM    (permalink
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The only fans who believe Bryant is better than White are Bucs fans. The aruement is one sided until Bryant either proves he can produce for more than one year or at least stay on one team for an extended about of time.
Good job addressing how Bryant would not have put up better numbers in White's place this year.
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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And Michael Turner would have put up 2,000 yards with Minnesota's offensive line.

It's all hypothetical.
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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I have one question. If Bryant put up the same or similar statistics this season what would your opinion be?
Then it would be at least a decent arguement (unless Roddy continues his climb).
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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The only fans who believe Bryant is better than White are Bucs fans.
Of course. Bryant bounced around 3 teams and was out of football the year before he joined the Bucs. He wasn't starting early in the season either. He has no media recognition and thus people don't know about his talents and abilities, and the fact that he uses them well. You and I both know that the average fan doesn't have a clue about who's underrated and overrated in the league. Only the fans that actually see most of the action for themselves have a clue. I've seen enough of Roddy White to know that he's a great receiver, but Bryant is better (just slightly).

You keep mentioning that he has to prove himself over more than 1 season. He won the Biletnikoff award as a Sophomore. He's an extremely gifted player, and you know that his earlier struggles in the league were not related to his talent or ability. He's matured since then and there's no reason not to believe that he's one of the best receivers in the conference.


As for the divisional poll thread and debate...there's a reason why I rarely post in the NFL forum. I was just reminded.
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Old 05-17-2009, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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A lot of other defensive positions too man. OLB is fairly lacking; our 4 best LBs (at least 3) LBs are all MLB. Our best CBs are Richard Marshall and Chris Gamble? Don't get me wrong, they are a great young duo for one team, but for a division? Same goes for safeties (but we have a pretty solid group.

Our offense is most likely the best among divisions though. Drew Brees (Matt Ryan in clutch situations) having the option to throw to Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Antonio Bryant, Roddy White, Tony Gonzalez, Kellen Winslow, Jerious Norwood, Reggie Bush while the runningbacks consist of Michael Turner and DeAngelo Williams. That is so insane
I agree. Our defense as a whole was lacking but our offense is insanely explosive.

However, in the current matchup I just don't see the NFC North beating the NFC East in an actual game, but then again, maybe it's just me.
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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QB: Drew Brees
RB: Michael Turner
FB: Heath Evans
WR: Marques Colston
WR: Steve Smith
TE: Jeremy Shockey
TE: Tony Gonzales
LT: Jammal Brown
LG: Justin Blalock
C: Jeff Faine
RG: Jahri Evans
RT: Jeff Otah

DE: John Abraham
DT: Jonathan Babineaux
NT: Maake Kemoeatu
DE: Julius Peppers
SLB: Jon Beason
MLB: Jonathan Vilma
WLB: Thomas Davis
SS: Jermaine Phillips
FS: Darren Sharper
CB: Chris Gamble
CB: Chris Houston
here's mine. i think when's it all said and done Jabari Greer will be on the CB list.
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Old 09-22-2009, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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That's some serious Saints bias...impressive even from you.

Colston over Smith and White?
Shockey over Gonzalez?
Jammal Brown is overrated.
Jahri Evans over Davin Joseph?
Kemoeatu is injured...
Vilma over Ruud?
Phillips sucks...
TJax is better than Sharper.
Chris Houston is still shaky.
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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Jahri Evans over Davin Joseph?
dont act like this is weird. This does not only make sense its the only right way to look at this.
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Old 10-07-2009, 12:59 AM    (permalink
d34ng3l021
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dont act like this is weird. This does not only make sense its the only right way to look at this.
That is the only one I disagree with on etk's list. Jahri Evans is very good.
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Old 10-07-2009, 02:50 AM    (permalink
wicket
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That is the only one I disagree with on etk's list. Jahri Evans is very good.
thats why i only commented on that one.
although I do get vilma over ruud i know it is not what most people think.
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Old 10-07-2009, 04:59 AM    (permalink
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I'm siding with etk on this one. Davin Joseph is probably the best player Tampa Bay has and one of the best guards in the NFL.
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Old 10-07-2009, 04:35 PM    (permalink
wicket
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I'm siding with etk on this one. Davin Joseph is probably the best player Tampa Bay has and one of the best guards in the NFL.
but jahri is easily the best OLineman of the saints. they run behind him on something like 50% of the running games
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:08 AM    (permalink
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but jahri is easily the best OLineman of the saints. they run behind him on something like 50% of the running games
That may be so but it doesn't change the fact that I still consider Davin to be the superior player. Both are great, I just think Joseph has the all-roundedness to give him the nod.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:25 PM    (permalink
d34ng3l021
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That's perfectly fair if you're holding out judgment for another season. I'll give you that chance and say "let's wait another year", because I'm extremely confident that Bryant will continue his improvement.
So much for the whole Antonio Bryant is better than Roddy White argument, huh?
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