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Old 10-14-2009, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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What are Quinn's strengths and weaknesses? I know he has struggled but the Browns are a mess like us. Haven't seen much film on him in the NFL.
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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My thoughts...

Synder is not a man with patience even though he's forced to be. If he's got a shot to take a QB next year, I don't think he'll hesitate to pull the trigger on a Locker, Bradford or Claussen. Anyone outside of those 3 and I think he'll pass. Developing a QB is probably not an option any more. He's got Colt for that. I disagree that Colt is tied to the hip with Zorn. I can see Zorn getting fired but Snyder not wanting to let Colt follow him.

If Holmgren is hired, Zorn will most likely be retained as an OC. ...and Colt will stay. If Holmgren gets hired anywhere and Zorn is fired, then I still see Zorn following him. If Snyder lets Colt go, Colt will definitely find a spot where ever Holmgren ends up at. ...and you could see a Matt Hasselbeck story all over again. If you remember, Hasselbeck was behind Favre in GB and when Holmgren took the Seattle job he made sure he brought Hasselbeck with him.

But like I said.. I don't think Snyder lets go of Colt even if Zorn is fired. I just don't think the 2 are tied to the hip.

But let me just say... I'd rather Colt not start if it meant lining up behind a bad OL.
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Old 10-15-2009, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
My thoughts...

Synder is not a man with patience even though he's forced to be. If he's got a shot to take a QB next year, I don't think he'll hesitate to pull the trigger on a Locker, Bradford or Claussen. Anyone outside of those 3 and I think he'll pass. Developing a QB is probably not an option any more. He's got Colt for that. I disagree that Colt is tied to the hip with Zorn. I can see Zorn getting fired but Snyder not wanting to let Colt follow him.

If Holmgren is hired, Zorn will most likely be retained as an OC. ...and Colt will stay. If Holmgren gets hired anywhere and Zorn is fired, then I still see Zorn following him. If Snyder lets Colt go, Colt will definitely find a spot where ever Holmgren ends up at. ...and you could see a Matt Hasselbeck story all over again. If you remember, Hasselbeck was behind Favre in GB and when Holmgren took the Seattle job he made sure he brought Hasselbeck with him.

But like I said.. I don't think Snyder lets go of Colt even if Zorn is fired. I just don't think the 2 are tied to the hip.

But let me just say... I'd rather Colt not start if it meant lining up behind a bad OL.
D-Unit, you raise some interesting points. I'm not saying this won't happen but I would have my doubts:
1. If Zorn is fired & Holmgren hired I doubt Zorn is retained as OC. Again, could happen but I doubt it. Zorn was never promoted to OC under Holmgren - that speaks volumes to me.
2. Colt could be retained but would just as likley to be cut before training camp, IMO.

If Colt does have a similar career as Hasselback I will be the first to apoligize to you. I feel he is backup caliber talent at best and would be better off in the CFL.
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Old 10-15-2009, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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D-Unit, you raise some interesting points. I'm not saying this won't happen but I would have my doubts:
1. If Zorn is fired & Holmgren hired I doubt Zorn is retained as OC. Again, could happen but I doubt it. Zorn was never promoted to OC under Holmgren - that speaks volumes to me.
2. Colt could be retained but would just as likley to be cut before training camp, IMO.

If Colt does have a similar career as Hasselback I will be the first to apoligize to you. I feel he is backup caliber talent at best and would be better off in the CFL.
I'm not saying it would happen either. Just some speculation. Like I said, I don't think he'll think twice before pulling the trigger on a top QB in the draft... but he won't take on a project QB, even if it's another talented project 1st rounder like Campbell was. So Colt McCoy, Jevan Snead, or a later round developmental QB... those types of QBs... my guess is Snyder will pass. He's already got a developmental QB in Colt. There's no reason for him to let Colt walk just because Zorn gets pushed out. I'm not really buying that logic. Everyone says it, but I'm not believing. Say Snyder drafts Jake Locker... I still think Synder keeps Colt. You always need at least 3 QBs on the roster.
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:23 AM    (permalink
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I cooled a little on Pike last night. Not because I dont think he could be a good quarterback but watching him play it was more evident that hes not as far along as I originally thought. Still a good prospect in my eyes but I dont quite see him breaking the first round. I know its a cliche but I have a hard time drafting a franchise quarterback prospect that takes all his snaps from shotgun. Not to say that a college qb of that style cant succeed in the NFL, I just have a hard time drafting one early that does. Its a longer transition than I think most suspect. Like I said, I still like Pike, just as more of a mid 2nd grade.
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Old 10-16-2009, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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I cooled a little on Pike last night. Not because I dont think he could be a good quarterback but watching him play it was more evident that hes not as far along as I originally thought. Still a good prospect in my eyes but I dont quite see him breaking the first round. I know its a cliche but I have a hard time drafting a franchise quarterback prospect that takes all his snaps from shotgun. Not to say that a college qb of that style cant succeed in the NFL, I just have a hard time drafting one early that does. Its a longer transition than I think most suspect. Like I said, I still like Pike, just as more of a mid 2nd grade.
The thing that concerns me the most is his ball velocity and or arm strength I dont know if they are related or that is just the way he throws.
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Old 10-16-2009, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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I cooled a little on Pike last night. Not because I dont think he could be a good quarterback but watching him play it was more evident that hes not as far along as I originally thought. Still a good prospect in my eyes but I dont quite see him breaking the first round. I know its a cliche but I have a hard time drafting a franchise quarterback prospect that takes all his snaps from shotgun. Not to say that a college qb of that style cant succeed in the NFL, I just have a hard time drafting one early that does. Its a longer transition than I think most suspect. Like I said, I still like Pike, just as more of a mid 2nd grade.
Than I guess Bradford and McCoy are out of question then.
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Old 10-16-2009, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Doesn't vinny have a connection with notre dame?

If he stays(sigh) i can see the redskins being very interested in jimmy clausen.
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Old 10-27-2009, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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Doesn't vinny have a connection with notre dame?

If he stays(sigh) i can see the redskins being very interested in jimmy clausen.
I'm not a big Clausen fan but as long as we don't get Bradford or Snead I'll be happy.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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the skins HAVE to take an OT in the first round right? i honestly think that we not only have the worst starting offensive line in football right now but it has to be one of the worst in nfl history.

LT - Heyer (Wouldnt start at lt or rt on 75% or more of NFL teams)
LG - Dockery (only guy on the line playing decent)
C - Rabach (32 years old and is awful. gave up 2nd most sacks in the NFL last year and has to be on the same pace this year if not worse)
RG - Will Montgomery (7th rd draft pick cut by the Panthers. Wouldnt start anywhere else)
RT - Mike Williams (Yes he is seriously starting)

I think OT rankings right now are in flux. Okung is the clear cut #1 at this point but the next 3-4 guys could vary in order completely between now and draft day. At this point I would probably go:

1. Russell Okung, Okl St
2. Trent Williams
3. Brian Bulaga
4. Anthony Davis
5. Bruce Campbell
6. Charles Brown

After Okung I could see any of those other guys rising or falling but I have to believe at least 1 of them will warner a top 10 pick come draft day. Anyway, heres an updated Skins mock that I would want to see, considering we resign McIntosh and let Carlos Rogers and Campbell walk:

RD 1 - Russell Okung, OT, Okl State
RD 2 (trade down to pick up a 3rd) - Noel Devine, RB, WVU
RD 3 - Mike Johnson, OG, Alabama
RD 4 - Perry Riley, OLB, LSU

We'd have to snag a cb in FA, preferably Richard Marshall, Leigh Bodden, or Ellis Hobbs. At QB we have little option. Orton, Cullpepper, and Pennington are the only FAs that can be NFL starters. Itll be interesting to see what Denver does. I doubt they dont resign Orton. I honestly cannot rationalize taking a qb early in this draft without addressing the offensive line first and i dont see a franchise qb in this draft class. Vick is a flyer too that could get some consideration. In an uncapped year we would keep Rogers and Campbell as RFAs for another season unless we straight cut them. Campbell would start the season, and Colt would probably start by week 10.
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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Yes we have to draft OT in the first no matter what basically. Hopefully Okung is there...if not then take the next best. Its unfortunate that Vinny has put the team in this position.

Any young QB is going to get drilled, David Carr style, behind this o-line. We at least need a serviceable O-line before we stick a potential franchise QB behind it.

I'm down with spending the first 3 picks on O-line. Although I'd like to get a Noel Devine - playmaker type RB on offense.
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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From the outside looking in, im hoping that we finish with a better record than the rams, browns, and bucs and worse than the lions, chiefs, and raiders. i dont foresee the rams, browns, or bucs looking at taking okung but i could see the lions, chiefs, and raiders all being interested. and hopefully either the rams or browns would take qb. im not sure the raiders would go OT either in the first. i am worried about what we would do if okung was taken before our pick and i dont like most scenarios.
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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From the outside looking in, im hoping that we finish with a better record than the rams, browns, and bucs and worse than the lions, chiefs, and raiders. i dont foresee the rams, browns, or bucs looking at taking okung but i could see the lions, chiefs, and raiders all being interested. and hopefully either the rams or browns would take qb. im not sure the raiders would go OT either in the first. i am worried about what we would do if okung was taken before our pick and i dont like most scenarios.
Yea hopefully okung doesnt run a good 40 time if we pick after the raiders.
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Old 11-09-2009, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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Okung is a top 5 pick regardless and very possible #1 overall depending on who picks first. I know we need O-line but tbh if we don't get Okung there isn't a single Tackle I see other than him who is a standout LT. The rest of the guys like Bulaga and Davis can be solid LT's but are more suitable as standout RT's, and tbh I don't want to spend a top 10 and potentially top 5 pick on a RT or serviceable LT. It's only one pick and it can't correct the structural errors we have made the past decade, so tbh I don't mind drafting any position if Okung is not available. I really would have no problem in hell drafting an impact player like Eric Berry and just signing a serviceable tackle instead of wasting a top 10 pick. A top 10 pick is a very valuable thing and you should never compromise talent for need when you have endless holes on our roster like we do. Hell if we want to drafting Suh would give us the nastiest D-line. Also if we are picking in the 8-13 range I would support drafting a replacement for London in Rolando McClain, or drafting Sean Weatherspoon to move Orakpo to DE. Also everyone knows how I think Spiller is top 10 talent.
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Old 11-09-2009, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Okung is a top 5 pick regardless and very possible #1 overall depending on who picks first. I know we need O-line but tbh if we don't get Okung there isn't a single Tackle I see other than him who is a standout LT. The rest of the guys like Bulaga and Davis can be solid LT's but are more suitable as standout RT's, and tbh I don't want to spend a top 10 and potentially top 5 pick on a RT or serviceable LT. It's only one pick and it can't correct the structural errors we have made the past decade, so tbh I don't mind drafting any position if Okung is not available. I really would have no problem in hell drafting an impact player like Eric Berry and just signing a serviceable tackle instead of wasting a top 10 pick. A top 10 pick is a very valuable thing and you should never compromise talent for need when you have endless holes on our roster like we do. Hell if we want to drafting Suh would give us the nastiest D-line. Also if we are picking in the 8-13 range I would support drafting a replacement for London in Rolando McClain, or drafting Sean Weatherspoon to move Orakpo to DE. Also everyone knows how I think Spiller is top 10 talent.
i agree with most of what you are saying here except spiller being a top 10. im all for drafting a playmaker like spiller but i just dont think hes worth top 10 value. id much prefer someone in rd 2-4.

im praying that we can land okung because i agree right now there arent any other LTs worth a top 10 pick and the only way i want one of the other guys projected as first rounder right now would be in a trade down. which wouldnt be bad considering our needs if okung were off the board. and in terms of signing someone serviceable thats what has gotten us where we are now. to be honest i wouldnt be opposed to trading up for okung if thats what it took. hopefully though we are in a place where we can draft him.

im also a big mclain fan and a big weatherspoon fan i just think our need on the oline is way too big to allow luxury picks like lber in the first.
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Old 11-09-2009, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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That will be the day when the Skins trade down for the purpose of acquiring extra picks and building depth. DT you are thinking logically, you however have to think how the skins FO thinks and that is completely different.
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Old 11-09-2009, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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That will be the day when the Skins trade down for the purpose of acquiring extra picks and building depth. DT you are thinking logically, you however have to think how the skins FO thinks and that is completely different.
Well they way this years turning out you have to think there's at least a chance cerrato gets the boot. And maybe jus maybe someone logical takes over.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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Usually I would agree with STRIP, taking talent over need. But the fact is, we need a LT and a RT. I'd rather not draft Spiller top 10. He'd struggle behind an inept O-line and would have no passing game to back him up. Plus with the turnover rate of RB's...I have to pass on that right now.

If Okung is gone, I guess I can get behind some of the top Defenders in this draft but...we have to address this putrid O-line at some point.
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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interesting kiper quote to discuss.
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/29361

"You take the QB. You don't worry about the line. You develop the line. You don't worry about protecting a QB. You can't not take a QB because your line isn't good enough. St. Louis could have taken a QB. They could have had Mark Sanchez, but they took Jason Smith. Now they'll be looking at QB this year when they would have taken one last year. Remember Miami gambled a few years ago, Quintar. They took Jake Long No. 1, they did not take Matt Ryan and they ended up with Chad Henne late in the second round. People forget that they even took Phil Merling early in the second round before Henne. People are still figuring out if that was a good idea. Matt Ryan has played well and Henne is still developing. I've always believed if there's a QB worthy of being in the top 5, you take the QB. Cleveland did that a few years ago with Joe Thomas. Then they got Brady Quinn later in the first round. You take the highly regarded QB over the highly regarded LT."

For me, I agree with Kiper. You take the franchise qb over the LT if they are both on the board. BUT, in this draft, I just dont know that any of the top qbs are "franchise" qbs. clausen, locker, bradford, they all have legitimate question marks and im not sure any of them are franchise prospects to the liking of matt ryan, cutler, rivers, manning, etc.
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Old 11-12-2009, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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For me, I agree with Kiper. You take the franchise qb over the LT if they are both on the board. BUT, in this draft, I just dont know that any of the top qbs are "franchise" qbs. clausen, locker, bradford, they all have legitimate question marks and im not sure any of them are franchise prospects to the liking of matt ryan, cutler, rivers, manning, etc.

Exactly...franchise QB>than anything else...But just because Clausen/Locker/Bradford are the first round QB's in the draft, that doesn't mean they are franchise QB's or that they are on the level of Ryan/Sanchez/Flacco...

Each draft has a different inventory.

Now, if your scouts think that Clausen is your franchise QB, than so be it. I personally have serious doubts about all of these QB's though.
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Old 11-12-2009, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Exactly...franchise QB>than anything else...But just because Clausen/Locker/Bradford are the first round QB's in the draft, that doesn't mean they are franchise QB's or that they are on the level of Ryan/Sanchez/Flacco...

Each draft has a different inventory.

Now, if your scouts think that Clausen is your franchise QB, than so be it. I personally have serious doubts about all of these QB's though.
thats dead on with my thoughts too. sadly, im not sure next year will be much better if we are still in search but its too early to tell. snead and ponder will lead the senior class if they dont declare this year. with juniors declaring early your looking at guys like mallett, gabbert, and foles. all three are intriguing prospects that could mature and be top picks.

ill take andrew luck in two years over any of the guys previously mentioned.
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Old 11-12-2009, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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I'll be happy with Locker or Claussen. I really love Locker as I see him having ridiculous upside but something in me just tells me he is a complete boom or bust. No in between.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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I'll be happy with Locker or Claussen. I really love Locker as I see him having ridiculous upside but something in me just tells me he is a complete boom or bust. No in between.
i just dont see clausen as an nfl franchise qb. i hate his arrogance. hes got an above average arm and is pretty accurate in the intermediate and long throws but he lacks any athleticism, doesnt have good touch on throws under 15 yards, and has no mobility. with the skins o-line the way it is clausen could get sacked more than carr did in houston when he was drafted. it honestly pains me to have to think about rooting for this guy:


im with you on locker. i like his potential and i love that he is a throw first qb with the ability to make plays with his feet. love his attitude and work ethic a lot more than clausen. at the same time im worried too about his boom or bust potential and where i think he could be really good i think hes still inconsistent and a few years away and im afraid the skins will throw him in the fire too fast before hes ready.

with bradford his injuries are a huge concern to me. and i am not a proponent of drafting a qb in the top 10 from a spread offense. as a project in the mid rounds its fine but i dont like it in the top 10.

all i know is that i am in LOVE with Andrew Luck. Since hes a redshirt freshman he technically can declare next year after his sophmore campaign. i think this kid is going to be special and possibly the best nfl qb prospect in the last 10 years.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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I'm not familiar with this Andrew Luck guy...have you ever even seen him play to be so in love with him?

Not doubting you...just curious
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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I'm not familiar with this Andrew Luck guy...have you ever even seen him play to be so in love with him?

Not doubting you...just curious
did you watch the stanford oregon game last week? he was amazing. i also saw the game earlier this year vs wake forest. im really pumped to see him at USC this weekend. i think he may be not only the best freshman qb in the country but the best college qb in the country.
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