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Old 03-11-2007, 10:08 AM    (permalink
TNewFan41
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First of all drew bledsoe played, it was romo's first ever serious playing time, so that should end the discussion right there. Second, the most talent doesn't always win, because you won, yet we had more talent. Look at the patriots for instance, they don't have alot of talent, yet they always win.

Plus you have no LBs, no secondary, and you lost tiki, plus strahan is average at best now. The giants are definitly the 4th best team in the East right now.

And I am pretty sure everyone would agree that the Coeboys are the MOST TALENTED, team in the east. That doesn't mean you always win, though.

Our only whole is FS, the least improtant position in football. That is how good our team is.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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Cowboys 10-6
Eagles 8-8
Giants 8-8
Redskins 7-9
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by hugegmenfan View Post
ya giantrutgers fan im not sure if we r an 11-5 team finishing 1st in the nfc east, as a giants fan i cant see it- we are in a rebuilding period and have holes all over our team

i agree with these records- id say the gmen go 8-8 again however
Thank you, and honest giants fan admits it. there you go hugepunch.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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First of all drew bledsoe played, it was romo's first ever serious playing time, so that should end the discussion right there. Second, the most talent doesn't always win, because you won, yet we had more talent. Look at the patriots for instance, they don't have alot of talent, yet they always win.

Plus you have no LBs, no secondary, and you lost tiki, plus strahan is average at best now. The giants are definitly the 4th best team in the East right now.

And I am pretty sure everyone would agree that the Coeboys are the MOST TALENTED, team in the east. That doesn't mean you always win, though.

Our only whole is FS, the least improtant position in football. That is how good our team is.
you over rate your team tremendously tony romo is terrible. you rate the giants talent on what they did the second half of the season when 6-7 key players were out every game.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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The Patriots have ALOT of talent. Bruschi, Vrabel (the most underrated LB in the NFL), Colvin, they had a great LB core. They have the best front 3 in the NFL. They have a shutdown Corner and a great SS when healthy.

They have an underrated oline, a solid RB, they had a great 2 TE set, and the best qb in the NFL.

People underrate the Patriots tremendously. They have much more talent than Bill Bellichick will lead you to believe.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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The Patriots have ALOT of talent. Bruschi, Vrabel (the most underrated LB in the NFL), Colvin, they had a great LB core. They have the best front 3 in the NFL. They have a shutdown Corner and a great SS when healthy.

They have an underrated oline, a solid RB, they had a great 2 TE set, and the best qb in the NFL.

People underrate the Patriots tremendously. They have much more talent than Bill Bellichick will lead you to believe.
yea wilfork is a beast hes so quick for a guy his size. the pats are going to be a very good team next year. was that stallworth signing true or just a rumor?
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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yea wilfork is a beast hes so quick for a guy his size. the pats are going to be a very good team next year. was that stallworth signing true or just a rumor?
It was true.

To be honest, Im actually opposed to the signings NE is doing. They are making desperation moves for one last run, which is out of character.

Their needs are Safety, WR, and LB. They couldve gotten all of them via the draft. This is a great year for safeties and WRs, and they have 2 1st rounders to use on both of those needs.

They couldve gotten a pass rusher DE like Abriamiri in the 2nd and moved Vrabel inside which would fix their "ILB" situation. They didn't need to throw the bank at these FAs. Thomas is old, and Stallworth is injury prone.

They can still do this of course, and get best of both worlds. It will be interesting to see their draft approach now.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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Skins 11-5:Campell has breakout year, Portis and betts combine for most yards. D is improved by having a #3 corner and it remains healthy.
Boys 9-7
G-Men 7-9
Eagles 5-11
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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It was true.

To be honest, Im actually opposed to the signings NE is doing. They are making desperation moves for one last run, which is out of character.

Their needs are Safety, WR, and LB. They couldve gotten all of them via the draft. This is a great year for safeties and WRs, and they have 2 1st rounders to use on both of those needs.

They couldve gotten a pass rusher DE like Abriamiri in the 2nd and moved Vrabel inside which would fix their "ILB" situation. They didn't need to throw the bank at these FAs. Thomas is old, and Stallworth is injury prone.

They can still do this of course, and get best of both worlds. It will be interesting to see their draft approach now.
i really like the thomas signing for them though hes so versatile and bill b knows how to use players like that. dont forget we have justin tuck on the giants, his cousin. i cant wait to see who they draft. maybe they trade up for reggie nelson.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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How do the giants have more talent? we own you in talent. Just because you win doesn't mean you are more talented. Seattle is EVEN CLOSE to our talent level, yet they won. Although we were cursed last year.

And how does Romo suck? because he dropped a snap? that has nothing to do with QB buddy.

Giants lost Tiki, lost arrington, and strahan and toomer won't be half as good as they were before, and we were better than you before that anyway.

Name one position the giants have more talent in. Maybe shockey over witten, and Wilson over watkins, although they both suck, and Eli has more talent than ROmo, but he isn't better.

This is talent wise, not playing wise:

Eli>Romo
Julius and Marion Barber>>>>Jacobs
T.O.>>>Plax
Terry Glenn>>>>Toomer
Shockey> witten (just barely, but shockey is more talented)
Our o-line easily now after our signings, if you don't think leonard davis is talented you should just stop watching football, so our o-line>>>you o-line

Can't really compare d-line or linebackers because we run a 3-4, you run a 4-3, but I would give LBs to the cowboys easily, and d-line is close because Spears and canty are really talented, they just played crappy last year, and your DTs are below average, strahan is a shell of his former self, and Osi had 1 amazing year, so the jury is still out on him.

Newman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Madison
Henry>>>>>>>>Webster or McQuaters
Roy Williams>>>>>>>>Wil Demps
Gibril Wilson>>>Pat watkins.

So as you can see, we easily have more TALENT. Key word, TALENT.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Skins 11-5:Campell has breakout year, Portis and betts combine for most yards. D is improved by having a #3 corner and it remains healthy.
Boys 9-7
G-Men 7-9
Eagles 5-11
This is hilarious, I love it when everyone picks the skins every year because I know it means they will tank again. But seriously, the Redskins are a ways off of becoming the #1 team in the East. I believe the Eagles and Cowboys are very close talent-wise, then the Redskins and then the Giants. I also agree with most everyone that this is way to early to have a serious discussion about the likely records but I will take a stab at it.

Eagles (10-6) - Not much turnaround although thats not always such a bad thing.
Cowboys (9-7) - New staff means transition but their overall talent will keep them afloat.
Giants (7-9) - Very little depth, Big questions in secondary and at OT plus the loss of Tiki is huge.
Redskins (6-10) - This is a team that must start building through the draft and develop chemsitry.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:41 AM    (permalink
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How do the giants have more talent? we own you in talent. Just because you win doesn't mean you are more talented. Seattle is EVEN CLOSE to our talent level, yet they won. Although we were cursed last year.

And how does Romo suck? because he dropped a snap? that has nothing to do with QB buddy.

Giants lost Tiki, lost arrington, and strahan and toomer won't be half as good as they were before, and we were better than you before that anyway.

Name one position the giants have more talent in. Maybe shockey over witten, and Wilson over watkins, although they both suck, and Eli has more talent than ROmo, but he isn't better.

This is talent wise, not playing wise:

Eli>Romo
Julius and Marion Barber>>>>Jacobs
T.O.>>>Plax
Terry Glenn>>>>Toomer
Shockey> witten (just barely, but shockey is more talented)
Our o-line easily now after our signings, if you don't think leonard davis is talented you should just stop watching football, so our o-line>>>you o-line

Can't really compare d-line or linebackers because we run a 3-4, you run a 4-3, but I would give LBs to the cowboys easily, and d-line is close because Spears and canty are really talented, they just played crappy last year, and your DTs are below average, strahan is a shell of his former self, and Osi had 1 amazing year, so the jury is still out on him.

Newman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Madison
Henry>>>>>>>>Webster or McQuaters
Roy Williams>>>>>>>>Wil Demps
Gibril Wilson>>>Pat watkins.

So as you can see, we easily have more TALENT. Key word, TALENT.
im not going to argue with you because it would never end.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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This is hilarious, I love it when everyone picks the skins every year because I know it means they will tank again. But seriously, the Redskins are a ways off of becoming the #1 team in the East. I believe the Eagles and Cowboys are very close talent-wise, then the Redskins and then the Giants. I also agree with most everyone that this is way to early to have a serious discussion about the likely records but I will take a stab at it.

Eagles (10-6) - Not much turnaround although thats not always such a bad thing.
Cowboys (9-7) - New staff means transition but their overall talent will keep them afloat.
Giants (7-9) - Very little depth, Big questions in secondary and at OT plus the loss of Tiki is huge
Redskins (6-10) - This is a team that must start building through the draft and develop chemsitry.
Although I think we will win the division, not the eagles, even an eagles fan agrees with me that we have a ton of talent.

And hugepunch, you just aren't argueing because you knwo I am right. I just posted true rankings, so you can't say anything. I even said Eli was better than Romo, talent wise.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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I do agree that it is way to early for this.

But talent wise, I think we will all agree that the Cowboys have the most talent, by a good amount.
By a good amount? C'mon now. Let's not get ridiculous.

QB - A healthy McNabb gets the nod over Romo for now.

RB - Westbrook probably gets the nod. Overall running game? I'd give it to the Skins, who, on paper have Betts and Portis.

WR - Cowboys get the nod here.

TE - Shockey has the most talent. But the NFC East has such a deep grouping here. I'd rank it Shockey/Cooley/Witten/Smith, but a case could be made for different iterations.

OL - Tough call here. I'd probably take the Redskins grouping, but it does somewhat depend on who they get to replace Derrick Dockery inside.

DL - Not really fair to judge due to differing schemes, but no group in the NFC East is all that good. A healthy Strahan/Umenyiora tandem might still give the Giants a nod, but this is a huge toss up for me.

LB - Eh, not that pretty unit wise in the NFC East either. Maybe a slight edge to the Cowboys, but not as big as you might think, if at all. If the Giants can add another good piece to the cerebral and tough Antonio Pierce, then they could challenge. Washington has a very solid unit, and same with Philadelphia, although neither stand out.

DB - I'll take the Eagles secondary overall, because, despite the signs of a decline, Dawkins still provides good support and Sheppard and Brown are probably the best two tandem.

Sure, this isn't the most effective way to judge overall talent, and I could see a case for the Cowboys ... but to say by a good amount is by a reach, IMO.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
It was true.

To be honest, Im actually opposed to the signings NE is doing. They are making desperation moves for one last run, which is out of character.

Their needs are Safety, WR, and LB. They couldve gotten all of them via the draft. This is a great year for safeties and WRs, and they have 2 1st rounders to use on both of those needs.

They couldve gotten a pass rusher DE like Abriamiri in the 2nd and moved Vrabel inside which would fix their "ILB" situation. They didn't need to throw the bank at these FAs. Thomas is old, and Stallworth is injury prone.

They can still do this of course, and get best of both worlds. It will be interesting to see their draft approach now.
I actually think the moves are quite shrewd. They had the cap room this offseason, they signed guys that fit the system. They, though, didn't blow up their future in that, they still have 2 first rounders, and I would not be the least bit surprised if they ended up dealing down and accumulating future picks like they did a couple years ago. In short, they gear themselves up for a run, and potentially could have extra picks in the future when some of the guys are going to be shown the door.

Of course, we'll have to see what exactly happens.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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I know, I was overrexagerating by saying a good amount, but they do have the most talent.

And no way the eagles DBs have more talent than Newman and Roy, they have more talent alone. Plus, Watkins is very talented, as BBD. If you are 6'5'', and ru a 4.42, and your name isn't calvin johnson, your pretty talented.
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Old 03-11-2007, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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If you are talking pure physical talent, sure, maybe you give the Cowboys the secondary edge. But what would be the purpose of pure physical talent in any NFL discussion? I want to know football talent, not pure physical talent, and I'd take Sheppard/Brown over Newman/Henry but a tiny margin, but the difference comes down to that I'd take Dawkins/Considine over ?/Williams in a close margin as well.

Sure, if you are talking pure athleticism, yeah, the Cowboys probably have an edge. Heck, if you are talking about pure athleticism, the Redskins could easily challenge the Cowboys there, with Sean Taylor as a freak of nature, Adam Archuleta (still on the roster ... I mean, we are just talking on individual talent here and not whether or not they'd start ... ) as a workout freak, Carlos Rogers as a very well rounded physical talent, and Shawn Springs, if healthy, still as a quality talent. But it makes little sense, to me, to discuss solely physical talent, irrelevant of football talent. People know that Archuleta is on the outs and will still be a surprise to me if he is on the roster next year (IMO, the reason he's still on is that he's not going to give up all the money he is in line to get by voluntarily agreeing to something, whereas the Skins would probably like a buyout). Sean Taylor struggled last year when he was asked to handle too much and make too many reads ... in short, not letting him trust his instinct. Rogers had an inconsistent year, although part of that was scheme and team oriented, and Springs was injured.

In short, don't see a big need to discuss physical talent. Football talent is what makes the difference, and relative to football talent, I'd take the Eagles secondary still ... although how good Dawkins can be is a fair question as he ages, and something to watch, as any significant decline in Dawkins would shift responsibility to his partner. Of course, if they get better POA play at the line, the entire secondary can "look" better.
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Old 03-11-2007, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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Way too early. I'd wait until the draft, but here it is anyway.

1. Eagles (10-6) - McNabb will be back.
2. Giants (10-6) - Eli will break out. Jacobs will demolish defenses.
3. Cowboys (8-8) - Owens will destroy that team and the new coach won't succeed.
4. Redskins (5-11) - More of the same for the poor Redskins.

Off topic - I'm going to come out right now and say that the Patriots will be the Superbowl Champs next year. They are finally giving a genius coach good talent to work with.
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Old 03-11-2007, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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I really disagree with Toonster on the eagles, it doesn't really matter if Kearse will come back, Juqua Thomas and Trent Cole played great coming in. Kearse might make an impact but more me if he does it's just a bonus.

Okay my non-biased rankings

1. Eagles 12-4
2. Cowboys 11-5
3. Giants 8-8
4. Redskins 6-10

IMO when you have no doubt the best QB in teh division and probably in the conferance you have a very good chance at winning it all. I have us 4 losses because sometimes games don't get decided on QB's. Giants will strugle to run the ball with two power backs. Cowgirls will play well on defense and offense but no superb to take them past the eagles. Redskins will have a better season than last year stats and play wise but they have 3 very good teams that they have to play 2ice each
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Old 03-11-2007, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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It's definitely early. My 3 big concerns with the Eagles right now are:

1. Will they consistently run the ball again? First off, it seems that, with McNabb, they get pass happy. Now, granted, another big change happened with Mornhinweg taking over the playcalling duties, so that is another facet to consider. That said, one small aspect to consider is who eats the carries up behind Westbrook, because he'll need to be spelled. He only had 240 attempts last year, and while he can handle more, someone else will have to step it up. Other small concerns would tie into the OL, as Thomas/Runyan are aging, and while they could beat the odds and both play 16 games again, the risk does increase that they might miss a game or two here, and consistency with the OL is what often keys and determines success.

2. With Stallworth gone, who steps up in the passing game? Sure, the scheme design of Andy Reid will help facilitate the passing game. Sure, Stallworth wasn't much, but in past years, there's been the Stallworth and Pinkston's, both of whom had very big warts, to help stretch the passing game vertically, and open things up underneath. Baskett showed some deep play potentially, but he's more of a downfield physical type than he is a stretch the field type. Even if they ascertain that a stretcher isn't needed, they do need additional WR talent and the record has always been that learning the system takes time, albeit, there are cases of Baskett and Brown, both guys picking it up fairly quickly.

3. The play of the defensive line. It has to get stronger at the point of attack, because otherwise, the entire team is weakened. This isn't an organization that's likely to change character soon and go with bigger LB's consistently and what not. So the front 4 needs to not only consistently bring pressure, they also need to consistently play strong enough that the back 7 can be aggressive without having to look around. The keyword here is probably consistency.

If you note, though, I predicted the same win range for basically all 4 teams (Cowboys - 7-10, Redskins/Eagles - 6-9, Giants 5-8).
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Old 03-11-2007, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by hugegmenfan View Post
ya giantrutgers fan im not sure if we r an 11-5 team finishing 1st in the nfc east, as a giants fan i cant see it- we are in a rebuilding period and have holes all over our team

i agree with these records- id say the gmen go 8-8 again however
pssshhhh what kind of fan are you? I bet a Mets fan. hahaha


But we got an easy schedule. 3rd place schedule. Plus I think we will be alrite with new coaching of Defense. I hate fans who dont believe in their team btw

8-8 is a joke and not gonna happen.
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Old 03-11-2007, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby View Post
Way too early. I'd wait until the draft, but here it is anyway.

1. Eagles (10-6) - McNabb will be back.
2. Giants (10-6) - Eli will break out. Jacobs will demolish defenses.
3. Cowboys (8-8) - Owens will destroy that team and the new coach won't succeed.
4. Redskins (5-11) - More of the same for the poor Redskins.

Off topic - I'm going to come out right now and say that the Patriots will be the Superbowl Champs next year. They are finally giving a genius coach good talent to work with.
are you serious? first of all, McNabb will be hurt again, second of all, the gianst are gonna be 8-8 at best. Eli and Jacobs? lol.

As for overall Talent, Newman is the most talented DB in the East, very close to him is sean taylor though.
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Old 03-11-2007, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Toonster made a great point about the Eagles. Their fate will depend on their commitment to the run game. Ive also noticed that they abandon the run way too much when McNabb is healthy. For some reason, they only feed the rock to Westbrook and increase his role when McNabb goes down.

Their fate will depend on this factor. If they continue to feed it to Westbrook, they will be great again next year. If they go back to the pass happy nature of Reid, they will suffer a little.

One thing about Philly, their dominance in the trenches. Philly has always been a good team because they win at the point of attack. And they draft so well, that they draft one year ahead. You didn't see much impact by Justice or Bunkley this year, but next year they will make their impact. Thats how Philly drafts, one year ahead of schedule. Thats why they never miss a beat.

Alot of times we evaluate the skill position players and say this team is better than that team because of the matchups. But we always overlook the importance of the line plays on both sides. Disruption up front is the most important phase of the game, and it masks alot of weaknesses in other areas. The teams who consistently play well up front are always contenders. You can't be average on the line of scrimmage and be a good team. No matter what you have at the skill positions.

I said before that the 2 most important keys to winning football games is staying healthy/deep, and good coaching adjustments. Add another to that list, and thats quality play in the trenches.

If you have a solid oline and dline, regardless of what you have at the skill positions, you have a chance to go 8-8 on the season. Throw in some guys around those lines, and with good health and a little luck you can go 10-6. Throw in a top tier qb, and you can win the division. Skill position players are overrated.

Especially wide receivers.
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Old 03-11-2007, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
pssshhhh what kind of fan are you? I bet a Mets fan. hahaha


But we got an easy schedule. 3rd place schedule. Plus I think we will be alrite with new coaching of Defense. I hate fans who dont believe in their team btw

8-8 is a joke and not gonna happen.
8-8 is a joke? yea maybe a good joke. If the giants go over 8-8 it will be a MIRACLE.
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Old 03-11-2007, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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TNewFan can you please go away you have no clue what your talking about

And nice posts Toon and BBD, interesting to see how Philly does with the mixed opinions
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