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Old 03-11-2010, 06:22 PM    (permalink
HindSight
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Default Bobby Carpenter value?

Hey guys....I'm in different mock and the Dallas owner wants to trade up with me (Raiders) in the 2nd round. I couldn't work a deal with just draft picks, so I'm looking for a player from Dallas to throw in. Being a Buckeye fan, and noticing Bobby Carpenter on your list of players on the block.....I was wondering what value you guys would put on Carpenter. 3rd rounder? 4th?
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Old 03-11-2010, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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I'd be thrilled with a 4th rounder, but most Cowboys fans will probably say he's worth a 3rd (homeristic). I think we could find a LB in the 4th round that would give us more than he gives us.
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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To be honest, I think a 4th is too high. I bet he'd be worth a 6th, because he hasn't done much. He is a decent nickel backer, but I don't think his trade value is that high.
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Old 03-12-2010, 05:14 AM    (permalink
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In real terms, I'd say Carpenter is worth more to this team than any other. He knows the scheme, he's developed a role, and he's actually started to mature as a player. I know I'm alone on this, but I don't think Bobby played that poorly this season. Will he ever live up to our pre-draft expectations? Probably not, but that doesn't mean you just get rid of him and hope that a sixth rounder can replace him.

I mean honestly, let's look at guys who we've taken in the sixth round is past drafts. Can we honestly say that its likely that a sixth (or fourth) rounder will be to produce more next season than Carpenter will? Let's take a look at some of our past 4th round and 6th round picks:

4th Round
2004: Bruce Thornton--He definitely did a lot in his first year and is clearly an NFL superstar now.

2005: Marion Barber and Chris Canty--Certainly a successful 4th round, but Barber plays the easiest position to transition to in the NFL and Canty already had experience in a 3-4 scheme at Virginia, in addition to being a steal because of medical risks.

2006: Skylar Green--Whoop dee fricking doo.

2007: Isaiah Stanback and Doug Free--Stanback has done nothing in his NFL career, and Free only began to show promise in his third year in the NFL; Certainly not the immediate production we're looking for.

2008: Tashard Choice--Another excellent pick, but we have to apply the same standard to Choice we did to Barber: running back is the easiest position in which a player can make a transition to the NFL.

2009: Stephen McGee, Victor Butler and Brandon Williams--Butler was barely trusted by coaches as a 3rd OLB, while Williams and McGee never saw the field, albeit for legitimate reasons.

6th Round
2004: No picks

2005: Justin Beriault and Rob Petitti--Beriault looked good in camp, but suffered a career-ending injury shortly afterward. Petitti was forced into a starting job at RT, performed pretty poorly (ugh that line was awful that year--anyone remember Torrin Tucker on the left side?), and was cut the following year.

2006: Montavious Stanley--Accomplished nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Ever.

2007: Nick Folk and Deon Anderson--A relatively successful round, yet both players played minor positions without the importance of an inside/nickel linebacker.

2008: Erik Walden--Cut at end of training camp.

2009: Stephen Hodge and John Phillips--Phillips is certainly a diamond in the rough, but wasn't ready for his big role at the beginning of the year.

So, what's the likelihood that any rookie can really replace Carpenter's production? There's simply too steep a learning curve at the position Carpenter plays, and when you're a win now team, you need to look at the short term. Carpenter can contribute. A rookie probably can't.
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Old 03-12-2010, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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It took Carpenter until late October to "get it" & turn the corner on that ILB learning curve, he was effective in the late season only. Early on it looked like he had trouble with plain old FB 101 fundamentals, remember all those missed tackles?

Dallas fans were screaming for his head on a pole until almost the playoffs, he was lucky he wasn't cut.

I think Carpenter ios a classic case of a Parcells Legacy player, someone he drafted only b/c he knew his father well b/c the elder Carpenter played for him with the Giants. Also sadly a case of an excellent college All American LB who failed to take it to the next level. I think he's out of FB in < 2 yrs. unless he does a dramatic turnaround in his game perfomrance
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Old 03-12-2010, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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I agree with JJJ. I'm not a big fan, but I think his actual value to us is significantly greater than anything he will ever bring in draft value - 6th at best, IMO.

He's decent as a coverage LB and is pretty good in special teams. If we had picked up Carp in the 4th or 5th we wouldn't worry much about him, but he's got that 1st round pick that will hang around his neck forever.
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJ888 View Post
In real terms, I'd say Carpenter is worth more to this team than any other. He knows the scheme, he's developed a role, and he's actually started to mature as a player. I know I'm alone on this, but I don't think Bobby played that poorly this season. Will he ever live up to our pre-draft expectations? Probably not, but that doesn't mean you just get rid of him and hope that a sixth rounder can replace him.

I mean honestly, let's look at guys who we've taken in the sixth round is past drafts. Can we honestly say that its likely that a sixth (or fourth) rounder will be to produce more next season than Carpenter will? Let's take a look at some of our past 4th round and 6th round picks:

4th Round
2004: Bruce Thornton--He definitely did a lot in his first year and is clearly an NFL superstar now.

2005: Marion Barber and Chris Canty--Certainly a successful 4th round, but Barber plays the easiest position to transition to in the NFL and Canty already had experience in a 3-4 scheme at Virginia, in addition to being a steal because of medical risks.

2006: Skylar Green--Whoop dee fricking doo.

2007: Isaiah Stanback and Doug Free--Stanback has done nothing in his NFL career, and Free only began to show promise in his third year in the NFL; Certainly not the immediate production we're looking for.

2008: Tashard Choice--Another excellent pick, but we have to apply the same standard to Choice we did to Barber: running back is the easiest position in which a player can make a transition to the NFL.

2009: Stephen McGee, Victor Butler and Brandon Williams--Butler was barely trusted by coaches as a 3rd OLB, while Williams and McGee never saw the field, albeit for legitimate reasons.

6th Round
2004: No picks

2005: Justin Beriault and Rob Petitti--Beriault looked good in camp, but suffered a career-ending injury shortly afterward. Petitti was forced into a starting job at RT, performed pretty poorly (ugh that line was awful that year--anyone remember Torrin Tucker on the left side?), and was cut the following year.

2006: Montavious Stanley--Accomplished nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Ever.

2007: Nick Folk and Deon Anderson--A relatively successful round, yet both players played minor positions without the importance of an inside/nickel linebacker.

2008: Erik Walden--Cut at end of training camp.

2009: Stephen Hodge and John Phillips--Phillips is certainly a diamond in the rough, but wasn't ready for his big role at the beginning of the year.

So, what's the likelihood that any rookie can really replace Carpenter's production? There's simply too steep a learning curve at the position Carpenter plays, and when you're a win now team, you need to look at the short term. Carpenter can contribute. A rookie probably can't.
This is a nice summary of what Carpenter brings. I think a 6th would be his trade value, but I don't see any point in stockpiling picks. Even if they want to move up, Dallas doesn't have such pressing needs that they just have to move up to get a player.
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Old 03-13-2010, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Carpenter wasnt even all that great in coverage this year, he was adequate. Luckily he's not a major liability anymore but, he's not any good, either. He's worth damn near nothing through trade. At least he finally has a steady role but, this should be it for him in Dallas. Hopefully, Jason Williams can even take some of his playing time this year. It honestly, wouldnt even be worth it trading him because, I think at best...you'd get a 5th/6th round pick. The 5th is probably wishful thinking. The Lions just acquired Chris Houston, who has been starting, for a 6th rounder. And while he hasnt been any good either, he's shown a lot more than Carp has.
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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He isn't worth more then a 4th, and thats mainly because of his lack of playing time and the fact that he is in the last year of his contract. I have always liked him as a player but he is a better fit as an outside LB for a 4-3 team. If the Phins gave us a 5th for him I would love it.
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Old 03-17-2010, 04:37 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
Carpenter wasnt even all that great in coverage this year, he was adequate. Luckily he's not a major liability anymore but, he's not any good, either. He's worth damn near nothing through trade. At least he finally has a steady role but, this should be it for him in Dallas. Hopefully, Jason Williams can even take some of his playing time this year. It honestly, wouldnt even be worth it trading him because, I think at best...you'd get a 5th/6th round pick. The 5th is probably wishful thinking. The Lions just acquired Chris Houston, who has been starting, for a 6th rounder. And while he hasnt been any good either, he's shown a lot more than Carp has.
Perfectly said. I would trade him for Chris Houston straight up any day of the week and twice on sundays. Carpenter is a role player-at best. Would I trade him for a 6th round pick? Probably not. But only because most 6 rounders dont make the team. He is a player at least. But a poor one.

I have hated Boobie Carpenter (aka Barbie Carpenter) since his first year. And I will say that when he was drafted I was okay with the pick. I was wrong about him. Moving on...He has shown only that he can play in situational times only. However, usually a sixth round pick doesnt play. In this aspect he is not worth trading for a 6th.

So in conclusion, I don't trade him for a sixth round pick (which is what he is worth IMO.)

Now-give me a fourth for him and I do it in a heartbeat. He is worth nothing in a trade because he sucks, and is only worth a 6th. But the reality is most sixth rounders never make the team.

In conclusion...trade him in a heartbeat for a fourth. Keep him for a sixth.



Darn it. I hate him. But we have held on to him too long. We are probably stuck with him. This is the truth.
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Old 03-22-2010, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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He is a free agent next year, if and when they get a new CBA done some time during the season, so it really doesn't matter. He'll be gone soon enough.
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Old 03-27-2010, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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I'd take a 5th for Barbie
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:04 AM    (permalink
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2006: Skylar Green--Whoop dee fricking doo.

.

I was so excited about him when drafted. I just knew he would be a pro bowl kick returner and a great slot guy. I am never wrong, obviously.


In all seriousness-can I get a promise from everyone to not ever speak his name again? It really irritates me every time.
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