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Old 03-12-2010, 07:55 AM    (permalink
gsorace
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Originally Posted by thetedginnshow View Post
I'd say our needs go in the order of:
1. OLB
2. Safety
3. WR
4. RB
5. CB
6. DE
7. OL
8. FB

How the draft looks to be panning out, I'd like to see us draft them loosely in this order:
1. WR/OLB
2. WR/RB/S
3. WR/RB/S/CB/DE/OLB
4. CB/S/RB/DE/OLB/OL
I'm curious as to why you think a third string RB who probably won't see any significant playing time barring an injury is such a big need.

Unless you think Leon is leaving of course.
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Old 03-12-2010, 09:09 AM    (permalink
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I would use the 1st and 2nd round picks to find a slot receiver (Golden Tate?) and an OLB. Then with the 4th round pick I would grab a guy who can get some time at DE and NT since the DL is getting up there in age. With the late round picks, RB and DB can be addressed.
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gsorace View Post
I'm curious as to why you think a third string RB who probably won't see any significant playing time barring an injury is such a big need.

Unless you think Leon is leaving of course.
I think saying "barring an injury" is like saying the Jets are going to play football next year. I will bet everything that Greene gets injured, and he's either going to miss time or his production will suffer because of it. His running style and his body type is just too conducive to getting banged up.

And Leon's really not cut out to be a workhorse. He wasn't even playing that great before the injury anyway, at least IMO. Neither backs can pass protect all too well (Greene really not at all) and only Leon can catch. The issue with having two backs with such a lack of overlapping skills is that it makes it fairly obvious what you're going to do when either is in the game. So, not only is there the fact that they need a third back (or second if Leon leaves) to take at least 30-40% of the snaps, but neither back even has close to a complete skill set.

That's why I have the need "so high". I'll actually go and explain why I have each position where it is.

1. OLB - Getting to the QB is the most important thing to the 3-4 (minus the Belichek 3-4). Some people seem to think that our rush is good enough because how many "pressures" we get, Pace's sack numbers, and so on. But really, I feel like anyone that actually watched a game, most notably the playoff games, would realize that our pressure on QBs of actual good teams is kind of few and far between, and a decent amount of our sacks come from coverage sacks. I think this could also be attributed to some of our defender's lacking ability at disguising what they're doing pre-snap, as well as a lack of innovation in how they line up, but still, there's an issue with the pass rush. Gholston does nothing, Thomas really isn't even in there to generate sacks, and Westerman is up-and-coming. So that leaves Pace who, while decent at getting pressure, really isn't a sack artist. Now I know part of the beauty of Rex's schemes is that pressure can come from anywhere from anyone, but in crunch time, you kind of need a premier pass rusher to count on and I think we're fully capable of acquiring one in the draft.

2. Safety - I left this here since this is where I originally had it, and while I don't know if Pool will definitely be the answer, I think now you can slide this need way down, though I'd like to see us address it still.

3. WR - To me, we really only have one receiver, two if you count Keller. There's no guarantee Braylon will be here beyond this year, and since he's definitely never going to learn to not drop easy catches, I don't see why we should count on him as a premier receiver in the first place. So while a lot of people say we need a slot receiver, I think we should just be looking at a receiver in general. Plus, I think it's kind of stupid to type-cast for a slot receiver, because generally if you're doing that you're negatively limiting your search by looking for a smaller, quicker receiver that can get lost in traffic and stretch the field. And while that's all well and good, I think that stunts any growth the offense could have because that disables them from potentially developing that receiver into a #2 or #1 option. Like look at what the Colts had with Garcon and Collie for example. Both are fully capable of playing the slot position, but they can also profile as flankers or whatever. So anyway, I think we need a WR, and I don't think we should look for specific traits, such as "a slot guy", or a "burner", or any of that, and rather just find the best receiver for our team. It's really a great thing because if they know our team's weaknesses well, this draft happens to be deep at all of those positions.

4. RB - I already explained this earlier, but essentially, I think we need a well-rounded back. I have no problem with a game-breaker, but we need someone versed in more than just one thing.

5. CB - Well still, we only have what, four corners? And one of them's not that good and another one can clearly only play the nickel, so that leaves two capable of starting which isn't that good. Nickel coverages offer up a lot of possibilities for blitz schemes, so I'd like to see us in that formation more often (and they probably would too). Thus, another corner is still a relatively important need. I'd say it'd be someone that's pretty fast and pretty tough (not necessarily physical).

6. DE - You'd actually kind of think that this is like our top need considering Ellis is old and the others aren't really worth that much (though they came on very admirably this season). But, I just don't think it's a terribly high priority in this defense. True, it's important to stopping the run and freeing up the LBs, but I just think it's something where you need some depth and nothing more; certainly not a marquee name.

7. OL - This is actually looking ahead. Honestly, I doubt all the starters stay healthy again and I'd be willing to bet at least two go down with injury at some point. Plus, Faneca and Woody are pretty old, and Woody's really not even that good anymore. This is such a low need though because unlike all of the other positions, you don't see rotations during a game so you're really only looking for depth, not to mention the fact that OL is one of the easiest positions to transition from college to, so we can address the need when it becomes a little more apparent (probably next year).

8. FB - Even if T-Rich comes back he's like 40 years old. The FB is a fairly pivotal position for our offense and there always seems to be one good blocking FB in each draft. We'll need a successor at some point and I'm not so sure Davis is anything more than a stop-gap.

EDIT: In case anyone's coming back and reading this, with what we've done lately, I'd re-arrange things to be...

1. OLB
2. WR
3. CB
4. DE
5. OL
6. S
7. RB
8. FB
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Old 03-14-2010, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Which 3-4 OLB's in this draft does everybody like for us? I'm a big Hughes guy, he would be my preference late round 1 and I kind of like Norwood as well in the second but I'm not sure he's an ideal fit for just getting after the QB though he's obviously very good at it. Also like Schofield and I go back and forth on Hardy for mid-rounds, and Worilds kind of intrigues me but I'm not too sure about him either.
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Old 03-14-2010, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Which 3-4 OLB's in this draft does everybody like for us? I'm a big Hughes guy, he would be my preference late round 1 and I kind of like Norwood as well in the second but I'm not sure he's an ideal fit for just getting after the QB though he's obviously very good at it. Also like Schofield and I go back and forth on Hardy for mid-rounds, and Worilds kind of intrigues me but I'm not too sure about him either.
Obviously a homer pick and not an early guy or really a draftable guy. But getting George Johnson as a 7th rounder or UFA would be a really smart move. He was hampered by injuries his whole career but didn't take games off so his numbers were hampered. He is a really athletic guy who is a good size for the position. His best football may be ahead of him. With Westerman making such a positive impression last year, Johnson may be a possibility.
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Old 03-14-2010, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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Jerry Hughes would be my favorite. Then it's Thaddeus Gibson. Then Kindle? Then Eric Norwood. Then I think I like Worilds. Then probably Daniel T'eo-Nesheim and Junior Galette.
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Old 03-14-2010, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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Jerry Hughes would be my favorite. Then it's Thaddeus Gibson. Then Kindle? Then Eric Norwood. Then I think I like Worilds. Then probably Daniel T'eo-Nesheim and Junior Galette.
Thing I don't like much about Kindle is that he's pretty up and down. Plus he's overvalued IMO if that makes any sense...Hughes for example seems to be a guy who should get picked higher than he will. Kindle seems to be the reverse, to me at least. What's the deal with Gibson? I know you're a bit of a OSU fan, isn't he a bit light? Doesn't look like he's got a massive frame either, and he certainly doesn't have huge pass rushing numbers. I'll be honest I've never watched him play but so I really don't know, but he seems like even less of a pass rusher than Norwood and to me that's the priority in any OLB that would come in, although obviously the ability to cover and make plays is important. I just think taking an all-around guy is a little too cute.

Love the Rutgers info as always Josh, definitely a guy I'll keep my eye on.
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Old 03-14-2010, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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I don't really like Kindle as a person, but he's supremely talented. His problem is that he can really only go forward, but he goes forward faster than any other 3-4 OLB in this draft. He's not the smartest, but as long as he doesn't have off-field troubles, he could post double digit sacks for us every year. I actually think Hughes and Gibson have better coverage abilities and play in space better, which is why I have them ranked higher, but Kindle is dynamic. His explosiveness from a stationary position is unreal. And really, he wasn't that inconsistent. Sometimes people say guys are inconsistent because they're not jumping off the screen, but really, he was just getting consumed by blockers. Moving him to DE, in my mind, was a terrible idea by Texas. He still had a ridiculous number of TFL's, but you saw less of him because just doesn't have much of a pass rush repertoire and his functional strength isn't really impressive enough to overwhelm them. But as a 3-4 OLB he could be pretty special... provided he gets into the right situation (and yeah, I doubt he makes it to our pick).

As for Gibson, his frame is about the same as Hughes. One thing I love about Hughes though is that he's got a thicker base, which Gibson doesn't really have. Really though, it just allows him to be more fluid, because he's very strong (I believe he posted something like 32 reps at the bench as proof). He's said he always felt like a linebacker at heart, so I think Ohio State had just miscast him a bit. It's funny though. Going back to when Gholston was around, he was always someone watching the games in person and on TV where I never really saw him jump off the screen, and I was surprised when I saw his stats and absolutely dumbfounded when I saw where he was projected to go. As for Gibson, I was always surprised that his numbers weren't better, because save for the Rose Bowl (but I think that's because I was at the game), he always jumped out at me. Really, I thought he'd be projected higher than Heyward, though I love him too. Gibson really is great in space though. I don't like his body structure though, it seems a little top heavy and short for my liking, and I think that can kind of affect his rush around the edge, but he's nasty. He's really the exact opposite of Gholston. Not really much of a freak, smart, nasty, great work ethic, never quits, great in space, and would love to stand up. Oh and he was born where I was born.

And as a side-note, he only declared for the draft because his mother recently got sick and he wants to pay the medical bills. He said he'd come back to win a NC had Tressel asked him to, but Jim gave him his blessing.

With Norwood, I've always liked him. He has the same birthday as me. I really like his pass rush ability. I think he's destined to be successful. I guess I'm just tempering my interest in him because I don't think we're looking at him.

Worilds I haven't seen enough of to make an educated decision but I'm pretty sure he's just kind of average. I like Galette for some reason and DTN is a pretty bad dude. They were a bad defense though so his numbers might be a bit skewed.
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Old 03-14-2010, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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Oh and I've re-thought what I think about the Safeties. I looked over some things and now I'm down with Earl Thomas. Pretty sure he won't be around for us, but still. Less high about Burnett and Asante now, and I think Kurt Coleman would be a real good late round option.

Also, I've completely changed my stance on the runningbacks. Before I thought it was essential we acquired someone with a plethora of skills, but having signed LDT, we really don't need to anymore. Now I would see a greater emphasis on speed.
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Old 03-15-2010, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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Kris Jenkins cant stay healthy. Ellis is how old? Douglas is gone.

Pouha played very well at DT last year. The other rotational players did too.
Doesnt hide the fact we are old on the d-line.

BPA for the first. Take the best kid you can turn into someone like Ellis at least.
Need to get younger and fast IMO.

A slot WR which is a major need can be found later i think. Or retain Leon and put him in the slot.
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Old 03-22-2010, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Apparently Henry Ellard was at Arrelious Benn's workout recently. Benn supposedly did pretty well. Obviously a physical specimen but not sure he's got the production that the FO seems to look for in drafts...though he was better prior to this year. He does have the cold weather thing going for him and they seem to love Big 10 guys so that could be a perk.

Overall don't think it happens but we'll see, he's an interesting guy late round 1 since he was supposed to be elite prior to this season. Most of the time those guys flamed out for a reason but sometimes teams hit it big. Not sure that's the kind of risk this team likes to take in round 1 but I guess time will tell. Round 2 would obviously be a lot better if he falls, which I think is possible but probably only in a trade down from 29/trade up from 61 scenario.
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Old 03-24-2010, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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Since I'm on break, in the next couple of days I'll post some elaborate draft stuff.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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Im bored so I created some Jets mocks. I would be happy with any 3 of them. I just want to get your thoughts.

#1
1. Jared Odrick DE/Penn State
2. Eric Norwood OLB/South Carolina
4. Dezmon Briscoe WR/Kansas
5. Reggie Stephens G/Iowa State
6. Sam Young OT/Notre Dame
7. Sam Shields CB/Miami

#2
1. Jerry Hughes OLB/TCU
2. Tyson Alualu DE/California
4. Ciron Black OT/LSU
5. Walter McFadden CB/Auburn
6. Corey Peters DE/Kentucky
7. Robert Johnson S/Utah

#3
1. Demaryius Thomas WR/Gerogia Tech
2. Morgan Burnett S/Georgia Tech
4. Brandon Deaderick DE/Alabama
5. George Selvie OLB/South Florida
6. Dace Richardson G/Iowa
7. Dedrick Epps TE/Miami
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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The third one probably addresses our needs the best.
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Old 04-01-2010, 12:21 AM    (permalink
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I'm liking #3 the best but I'd be happy with any of those. I'm starting to like the idea of Demaryius Thomas more and more as the draft nears. He'd be great insurance/motivation for Braylon and his ankle injury just might be enough for him to drop to us.

Hughes would be a great natural pass rusher for us. I'm still trying to figure out where his draft stock is at....I could see him going anywhere in the 20's or possibly dropping into the 2nd round.
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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#1
1. Jared Odrick DE/Penn State
2. Eric Norwood OLB/South Carolina
4. Dezmon Briscoe WR/Kansas
5. Reggie Stephens G/Iowa State
6. Sam Young OT/Notre Dame
7. Sam Shields CB/Miami
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:19 PM    (permalink
thetedginnshow
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Since I'm on break, in the next couple of days I'll post some elaborate draft stuff.
Actually, I've decided to just do this closer to the draft.
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Old 04-08-2010, 03:29 PM    (permalink
derza222
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Lets get some draft discussion going guys, it's just two weeks away!!

I'm going to try to get a little game-ish thing started, have somebody throw out a name and the next poster reply with how they'd feel about drafting said player and then have them throw out a name that hasn't been said...or something like that. Doesn't have to be too formal, and if you have an opinion on somebody but another poster already gave their opinion please give it anyway! Just trying to get something moving along...

I'll start with a name that's pretty popular with some Jets fans...Golden Tate.
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Old 04-08-2010, 03:54 PM    (permalink
msolimani
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I'll start with a name that's pretty popular with some Jets fans...Golden Tate.
Golden has been attached to us in mock drafts for months now. I personally would love this pick. Dating back to this year's college season I can remember watching him play and thinking how good of a fit he would be for us. He has great speed, is a very polished route runner, and has the best hands in the class. I hope he is around for us to get him but I fear a team like Pittsburgh or New England might grab him. He could start off as a great slot WR/return man in his rookie year and depending on what we do with Braylon could evolve his role from there.
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Old 04-08-2010, 07:57 PM    (permalink
derza222
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Golden has been attached to us in mock drafts for months now. I personally would love this pick. Dating back to this year's college season I can remember watching him play and thinking how good of a fit he would be for us. He has great speed, is a very polished route runner, and has the best hands in the class. I hope he is around for us to get him but I fear a team like Pittsburgh or New England might grab him. He could start off as a great slot WR/return man in his rookie year and depending on what we do with Braylon could evolve his role from there.
I could buy that, though I've got concerns he may not have true #1 potential. Certainly an interesting guy though, I think the pick just got boring after awhile because it was made so much. Throw out another name now maybe and then have somebody else respond to that one?
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Old 04-08-2010, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Not in the first, but how about Mardy Gilyard in the second?
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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I could buy that, though I've got concerns he may not have true #1 potential. Certainly an interesting guy though, I think the pick just got boring after awhile because it was made so much. Throw out another name now maybe and then have somebody else respond to that one?
Yeah I agree there might be a question mark there about Tate being a number 1 guy. Although he did look very good last year when Floyd was out for Notre Dame. I realize that's not the same as doing it in the NFL, but its all we have to go off of.

As for another potential draftee, Everson Griffen has intrigued me. At first I was hoping for Odrick to fall to us (and he still might) but I really think someone in the early 20's will grab him. I was just going over Kiper's latest mock and he has Griffen going to us at 29. What would everyone think about that?
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:21 AM    (permalink
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Tate really reminds me of a miniature-sized Braylon Edwards. He can do just about everything, makes some amazing catches, and drops a lot of easy ones just because the focus isn't completely there. That's why I don't really think we'll take him, but I do definitely think he has impact potential on the next level.

As for Gilyard, I'll say more about him in my rankings, but I think of him as a poor man's Santonio Holmes. He's a little older than some of the prospects so I think what we see there is pretty much what he's going to be, but he can be pretty dynamic with the ball in his hands and he's pretty clutch, which are two big pluses that I wouldn't mind on our team.

Everson I don't imagine is on our board, but I don't really like him at all. He was massively hyped up two years ago and really did nothing except lose his job. This past year, considering how USC plays their defense, his stats were pretty good, but he just isn't an impact player. He'll flash in some plays and people may overrate him if he is able to get some sacks on the board, but he's just not that good.

How about... Jahvid Best.
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Interesting throwing Best out there TTGS. I liked him a lot this past year... Don't think he makes sense unless Leon Washington gets moved for a pick. If so, Best would be a great addition to the backfield and is a versatile and explosive threat which this offense could really use. I'd like the pick, just not sure if I would at #29. Somewhere in the early second I'd like it more.

On the topic of RB's, I've been wondering if CJ Spiller could be a target in a move up. Probably not as likely now with the LT2 signing, but he's a guy who is explosive and can get it done on the ground and in the receiving game, kind of like this draft's Percy Harvin only more running oriented which is why I thought of him. Doubt it happens though. As a continuation of that thought, if we elect to move up for somebody Jacksonville is a team that could be a partner. Seems like they're willing to move down and I'd imagine the price could be a little lower, could be a good spot to target somebody to ensure that we get them. I'd like Gilyard in the second as well, think he really fits what this team could use on offense and special teams.

What about Cody?
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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I'm a fan of taking Gilyard in the 2nd as well. He does a lot of the same things as Tate does but I think Tate does them a little better. Gilyard might be a better pick than Tate because of the 2nd round value he presents, where we would have to take Tate with our first.

As for Best, I wouldn't really love the pick because of the durability problems. He's already too injury prone on the college level which never translates well to the pro level. I could see him as one of those talented prospects who drops because he didn't go out in a great way. I could see us going for him if we do trade Leon and pick up an extra 2nd rounder.

I would like Cody in the 2nd round. His weight issues kind of worry me, but I think Kris Jenkins would be a very good mentor since he also went through weight problems early in his career.
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