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Old 03-12-2007, 02:58 PM    (permalink
one_of_a_kind24
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Originally Posted by toonsterwu View Post
Not really discussing the Bucs in general, but the OL

Davis has been inconsistent at LT because well, he really doesn't have the skillset for it. Now, no one knows how he'd do inside, but the skillset matches up much better, and Petitgout is, while not good, still a decent starting LT in the NFL, and definitely an upgrade from Davis. Not saying it's a great line, but I think it'd be in the mid-tier of the NFL.

Don't forget Dan Buenning. He is a good LG. He will probably miss the first couple of games healing from his ACL injury from last year.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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To everybody who is saying that the Bucs defense is old, the average age is 27.7. I didn't include practice squad players or anything, I just did the average age of the players who played.
Derrick Brooks is entering his 13th year in the league. Simeon Rice is entering his 12th. Shelton Quarles and Ronde Barber? 11th. Brian Kelly, 10th. Kevin Carter, 13th. This is a defense whose key players are all old, there is no denying that, so don't even try.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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The problem is the only really old players were the only really good players on the defense. Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber, Simeon Rice, Kevin Carter, etcetera.

True, but we should draft a couple of defensive lineman early and have them play when Rice, Carter, Etc.. get tired. I think Winborn will get more playing time at WLB to let Brooks stay fresh. At corner, Buchanon and Zemaitis are young. Barber and Kelly are still good.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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Petitgout has played every O-Line position except center. If I were a Bucs fan I would be pulling hard for them to draft Joe Thomas over Calvin Johnson and either place Petitgout at left guard, or have him as the primary backup at every O-Line position.
that would be stupid. having watched luke his whole career hes a solid LT. passing up on calvin would be a huge blunder. reese is stupid for cutting him. i dont care what any giant fan says. he would have restructured his contract for us. instead reese cuts him, now we have a LG as our LT.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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The problem is the only really old players were the only really good players on the defense. Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber, Simeon Rice, Kevin Carter, etcetera.
I think they have some young building blocks for the future, like Barrett Ruud... Ellis Wyms looks like a promising player as well.

but the main core of that Defense, Brooks, Simeon, Barber, Quarles.. are getting up there in years...

I'm concerned with their secondary depth..they have Ronde.. but is anyone really high on Kelly, Bolden, Buchanon? whatever happened to Zemaitis? maybe that group just had a down a year.

either way I'm going to be interested to see how they draft this season.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Derrick Brooks is entering his 13th year in the league. Simeon Rice is entering his 12th. Shelton Quarles and Ronde Barber? 11th. Brian Kelly, 10th. Kevin Carter, 13th. This is a defense whose key players are all old, there is no denying that, so don't even try.

I'm not denying it. It seems like everybody makes it seem like every player on our defense is 35+ when it's not true.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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I remember taking all sorts of flak for predicting the defense's demise. They ranked in the bottom half of the league in yardage and points. Yet, one year later, all their veterans are even older. They are going to get better? I disagree with that assessment. I like the Bucs offense, with Garcia at the helm, an improving O-Line, I have said so before. That said I think they will have to get accustomed to getting into shootouts.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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I think they have some young building blocks for the future, like Barrett Ruud... Ellis Wyms looks like a promising player as well.

but the main core of that Defense, Brooks, Simeon, Barber, Quarles.. are getting up there in years...

I'm concerned with their secondary depth..they have Ronde.. but is anyone really high on Kelly, Bolden, Buchanon? whatever happened to Zemaitis? maybe that group just had a down a year.

either way I'm going to be interested to see how they draft this season.
It doesn't help the secondary when the players don't like the coach they hired. Now that we have Morris back the secondary should improve greatly. Zemaitis had trouble learning and understanding the defense. Buchanon played good after he learned the defense. Kelly doesn't get hardly any repect but he is just as good, if not better than Barber. We have young players that can step in right away and play if they have to. The only area we need to get good, young players is at DE. That should happen in the upcoming draft.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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How is it easy?

We play the Defending Champion Colts, at their house.

We play @ Qwest, and @ Soldier, 2 legit NFC contenders in harsh road enviroments. (Seahawks, Bears)

We draw the Eagles at home again.. this time they'll have McNabb back and it'll be a revenge game for them.

The rest of NFC South has a chance of being much improved, Jacksonville, Tennessee won't be cake walks either..


very far from easy, I'd say it's one of more difficult schedules in the league. The overall number for Strength of Schedule is brought down by the Division opponents.
Yeah, I agree. We have a pretty rough schedule next year, definitely not as "easy" as it appears on paper.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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I remember taking all sorts of flak for predicting the defense's demise. They ranked in the bottom half of the league in yardage and points. Yet, one year later, all their veterans are even older. They are going to get better? I disagree with that assessment. I like the Bucs offense, with Garcia at the helm, an improving O-Line, I have said so before. That said I think they will have to get accustomed to getting into shootouts.

I agree. We have been drafting heavily on offense that past few drafts so we won't have to rely on our defense. This team has the players that can score points.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Tampa 16-0 :)
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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How is it easy?

We play the Defending Champion Colts, at their house.

We play @ Qwest, and @ Soldier, 2 legit NFC contenders in harsh road enviroments. (Seahawks, Bears)

We draw the Eagles at home again.. this time they'll have McNabb back and it'll be a revenge game for them.

The rest of NFC South has a chance of being much improved, Jacksonville, Tennessee won't be cake walks either..


very far from easy, I'd say it's one of more difficult schedules in the league. The overall number for Strength of Schedule is brought down by the Division opponents.
It doesn't matter what brings our strength of schedule down, the bottom line is we have the 6th easiest schedule for 2007 based on SOS. We only play 4 teams that made the playoffs this season. It's an easy schedule.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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The Bucs are not a good team, and the majority of the offseason moves have been designed to win a few extra games this year to help Gruden keep his job, instead of building for the future. I think 7-9 is a reasonable estimate.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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I can't see the Bucs going through the same kind of improvement as the Saints did. The Bucs didn't sign Drew Brees and they aren't going to draft Reggie Bush.

1. Saints 11-5
2. Falcons 9-7
2. Panthers 9-7
4. Bucs 6-10
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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The Bucs are not a good team, and the majority of the offseason moves have been designed to win a few extra games this year to help Gruden keep his job, instead of building for the future. I think 7-9 is a reasonable estimate.

I'm glad we finally have a Bucs fan in here who can take the homer goggles off and be reasonable. 7-9 is reasonable, but I wouldn't go any higher than that. 10-6 makes you a homer.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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that would be stupid. having watched luke his whole career hes a solid LT. passing up on calvin would be a huge blunder. reese is stupid for cutting him. i dont care what any giant fan says. he would have restructured his contract for us. instead reese cuts him, now we have a LG as our LT.
Why is everyone assuming Calvin Johnson is going to fall to Tampa?

He could very well go to one of the 1st 3 teams.

As for Pettigout, There's obviously a reason he was cut.
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Old 03-12-2007, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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I'm glad we finally have a Bucs fan in here who can take the homer goggles off and be reasonable. 7-9 is reasonable, but I wouldn't go any higher than that. 10-6 makes you a homer.
Sometimes the truth hurts. The NFCS has been a roller-coaster with worst-to-first being the norm, but I just can't see it for the Bucs this year.
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Old 03-12-2007, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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Since the creation of the NFC South the team that finishes in last place wins the division the next year. Just letting you guys know that.
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Old 03-12-2007, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Since the creation of the NFC South the team that finishes in last place wins the division the next year. Just letting you guys know that.
You mean all 5 years?
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Old 03-12-2007, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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Here is my break-down. I will do more for Atlanta, because of my familiarity.

New Orleans

  • Strength: Sean Payton's Offense
  • Weakness: Secondary
  • Wildcard: Reggie Bush's development


Comments: The prohibitive favorites. Which doesn't mean a lot in this division, seeing as how it's had different division champs since it's inception. The offense will still be a strength. Unless injuries hit, but that could be said about any team. If Reggie Bush can maintain his end of the season performance, he will be a dangerous weapon. McAllister is very underrated. Hopefully for them Colston doesn't become the next version of Michael Clayton, though.

Not sure the defense can hold up their end though. McKenzie is aging, Thomas is awful. I like their safeties, if Harper comes back from his injury. The front-7 is good, not great, not bad either. All that defense has to do is maintain mid-level performance to keep them at 'favorite' level.

Atlanta
  • Strength: Rushing Attack, Front-7
  • Weakness: Coverage Safeties, Left side of the O-Line
  • Wildcard: Michael Vick meshing with Petrino's offense


Comments: The draft is going to be the focal point of retooling the team. They've already moved into a more physical approach, in contrast to Jim Mora's more finesse style. The rushing attack was based on misdirection, false flow, and cut backs. The new one will focus more on smash mouth football. The O-Lineman that had to slim down for Gibbs' system, Kevin Shaffer for example put 20-lbs back on when he went to Cleveland. The coaches have stated that they will make sure they put on more bulk and strength, and move back into the style of system they were drafted into and originally started in. Current news has it that Quinn Ojinnaka could move to starting LG.

They have four glaring holes that need to be addressed. A FS/CB depending on how the coaching staff feels about Jimmy Williams, a LE that can step in rotation with Chauncey Davis, O-Lineman, a power RB to tandem with Jerious Norwood. Matt Schaub will be key, most think he will be dealt, that will allow the team to better address needs and depth in the draft. Fortunately for the team the need areas are deep in the draft, that is OG, DE, are deep.

Obviously what will command attention is how Michael Vick develops under Petrino. If they can coax '02-level production from him, the offense will be dynamite. That is, however, a unknown at this point. He will have more control, more weapons, better schematic fit. The onus is on him to return to the elite echelon and prove his lackluster production was a manifestation of the 'square peg in a round hole' theory.

Carolina
  • Strength: Corner trio, Julius Peppers and Steve Smith are all world
  • Weakness: Safety, Dan Morgan's health, O-Line
  • Wildcard: Jake Delhomme

Comments: This is a team I never count out. That said; this draft they have some work to do. The safeties really struggled in general. Dan Morgan is a crucial piece to that defense, and I don't trust he can stay on the field. Personally as a man, I wish he stepped away. Before he becomes a mental wreck like Ted Johnson or Wayne Chrebet. The O-Line still has some issues, they were not effective last year at opening holes for DeAngelo Williams.

That said, as long as you have the best Defensive player in football in my estimation, and one the NFL's biggest play-makers, they have a shot to win games. They had some bouts of bad luck that led to their missing out on the play-offs.

I do think Jake Delhomme is the wild card. He needs to maintain his composure better, limit his mistakes. I do think at some point on draft day, they will look towards the future. Will Delhomme step up with his future on the line, ala Drew Brees, or shrink like Jake Plummer did last year when the Broncos added Cutler?

Tampa Bay
  • Strength: Up and coming Offense manned by Jeff Garcia
  • Weakness: Defense, with the only good players on the precipice of retirement
  • Wildcard: Cadillac Williams' durability

Comments: I really like the offense. I think Garcia is a perfect fit for what Gruden wants. This was the much better move, as opposed to last year where they wrongfully put trust in Chris Simms. The O-Line will improve a lot, with Joseph, Trueblood adding experience, Petitgout being an upgrade.

The problem with this team is the defense. It's weak, and with Gruden making offense more of a priority, they haven't rebuilt like Monte Kiffin defenses of the past. They were below average across the board, and their former impact players have only aged.

The wild-card on this team is Carnell "Cadillac" Williams. His durability has always been a concern. In college, he never carried the load and had a few injuries. In his first two years in the NFL, he hasn't been healthy. All the O-Line and QB improvements won't help if Williams doesn't shoulder the load and dominate for 16 games.
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Old 03-12-2007, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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You mean all 5 years?
Yes, all five years.
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Old 03-12-2007, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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Yes, all five years.
Wow, well Tampa is definitely winning it this year.....
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Old 03-12-2007, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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1. Saints 12-4
2. Bucs 9-7
3. Falcons 6-10
4. Panthers 5-11
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Old 03-12-2007, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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Why is everyone assuming Calvin Johnson is going to fall to Tampa?

He could very well go to one of the 1st 3 teams.

As for Pettigout, There's obviously a reason he was cut.
name 1 reason. considering our head coach was strongly against the cut. is david diehl
a better LT? not by a long shot.
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Old 03-12-2007, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
This post was humorous to me. It's littered with optimism, and speculative assumptions. If I wanted to post two paragraphs as to why each player on the Falcons would have their 'best individual seasons ever,' and other conjecture about the team, I could do so easily. The post reached new levels of absurdity when you state your opinion that the Falcons "are a lock to finish last in our division." When all the facts led me to believe that the Saints were likewise going to struggle last year. I was wrong about that, and I admitted such. No team in the NFL is a "lock" for anything.
When have anyone's predictions ever come true? I just predict the Falcons to finish last, but I could easily be wrong, just like anyone else. Preseason predictions are the most overrated element of sportswriting, and I can't wait to see all the preseason magazines that say the Bucs will finish last and be 6-10 or something.
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