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Old 04-25-2010, 12:44 PM    (permalink
Morton
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Why didn't Reese get Weatherspoon at #15 if McClain was the main target, MLB was the biggest need, and McClain was already gone?

Sure JPP has nice upside but wouldn't Weatherspoon be the much better fit as MLB in Fewell's Tampa-2?
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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So ummm yeah... I was looking up info on the guy we drafted in the 7th round, Sean Lassimore and came across this video.

http://tribeathletics.com/files/fb/2009/video/d.html

While watching it, I said to myself, who is this #97??? Looks like a bad ass DE. Found out his name is Adrian Tracy and you guys drafted him. G'damnit!!! Had to be you guys!!! hah. Definitely looks like an intriguing player.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
So ummm yeah... I was looking up info on the guy we drafted in the 7th round, Sean Lassimore and came across this video.

http://tribeathletics.com/files/fb/2009/video/d.html

While watching it, I said to myself, who is this #97??? Looks like a bad ass DE. Found out his name is Adrian Tracy and you guys drafted him. G'damnit!!! Had to be you guys!!! hah. Definitely looks like an intriguing player.
He is pretty athletic and produced in college, but he's like another Clint Sintim type... I don't understand the pick, unless rumors are true about Sintim to MLB... but that would more or less throw all Cover 2 talk out of the window.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Morton View Post
Why didn't Reese get Weatherspoon at #15 if McClain was the main target, MLB was the biggest need, and McClain was already gone?

Sure JPP has nice upside but wouldn't Weatherspoon be the much better fit as MLB in Fewell's Tampa-2?
A) Fewell doesn't run a Tampa 2, most of the giants fans on this board are just over-reacting because he worked for Lovie and we just had to suffer through Sheridan.
B) MLB isn't that big of a need, Goff is solid with room to grow so while we could use an upgrade it's not nearly as important as a lot of people on here built it up.
C) Spoon's upside isn't even in the same stratosphere as JPP's before acounting for the massive additional positional value of a DE over a LB.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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He is pretty athletic and produced in college, but he's like another Clint Sintim type... I don't understand the pick, unless rumors are true about Sintim to MLB... but that would more or less throw all Cover 2 talk out of the window.
Dude, Adrian Tracy was a 6th round pick, if he can develop into a good special teams player and somebody who can rush the passer and maybe play some linebacker it would be a great pick regardless.

I don't think people realize that picks 4-7 you're mainly trying to find guys you can perhaps develop into a decent starter for cheap and maybe find some good special teams players. There will always be guys who fall and end up great players but those guys are the exception to the rule, mostly.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Dude, Adrian Tracy was a 6th round pick, if he can develop into a good special teams player and somebody who can rush the passer and maybe play some linebacker it would be a great pick regardless.

I don't think people realize that picks 4-7 you're mainly trying to find guys you can perhaps develop into a decent starter for cheap and maybe find some good special teams players. There will always be guys who fall and end up great players but those guys are the exception to the rule, mostly.
Thats not the point I was just questioning where Tracy fits in for us. I am curious too see where our staff puts him it should be interesting. Whether a DE, LB, special teamer or all three, I am wondering where they stick him.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Tracy is a backup of Sintim at SAM. For the love of god idk why I keep reading about Sintim moving to MLB here where its never been talked about.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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Tracy is a backup of Sintim at SAM. For the love of god idk why I keep reading about Sintim moving to MLB here where its never been talked about.
This is the only place I have heard it as well.
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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This is the only place I have heard it as well.
me too, idk who said it.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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I have no idea why you guys are so upset.

We got the best DE in the draft, and he fell to us at 15. This was a very good pick, especially with who was left on the board.

You guys are being way too harsh on JPP. He's extremely raw, of course he's not going to look like a finished product out there. We invested in our future with this pick.

Kiwi is gone, we won't resign him. We want a rotation at DE, and now we'll have 1 for awhile. Osi is still a concern, and Tuck is always hurt. We don't have as many DEs as you think.

This guy is a freak. Like I said before, if anyone can turn him into a monster, its us. Look at our track record with DEs.


Our pass rush was pathetic last year. We needed a pass rusher. He might not do a damn thing for us next year, but 2 years from now, we'll have a monster.

I'm very happy with this pick. And for the record, I wanted him before we drafted him. It's not just me saying this after the fact.


Can he bust? Sure. But I wouldn't bet on it. Not with us. If theres 1 thing we know, its pass rushers. He'll be a monster. We got a monster.

I hate this pick with a passion! You don't draft A Developmental pick with the 15th pick. However, Ross gave an explaination that we had ranked JPP 6th overall. And he fell to us, so it was an easy choice accordingly to him. So... with that said, I am willing to be patient to see how this works, even though I am very mad, and skeptical of this pick. At least I respect that they stuck to their draft board. Let's see how good Ross is. So far Nicks and KP were good picks, so I trust Ross still.
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Old 04-25-2010, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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We need a 2011 thread. Anyone wanna start it up?
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Old 04-25-2010, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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I hate this pick with a passion! You don't draft A Developmental pick with the 15th pick. However, Ross gave an explaination that we had ranked JPP 6th overall. And he fell to us, so it was an easy choice accordingly to him. So... with that said, I am willing to be patient to see how this works, even though I am very mad, and skeptical of this pick. At least I respect that they stuck to their draft board. Let's see how good Ross is. So far Nicks and KP were good picks, so I trust Ross still.
Mario Williams was in large part a developmental pick and he went first overall and has worked out quite well for the Texans. So I don't see why taking JPP at 15 is so outrageous. JPP is even rawer than Mario, but he was also taken about half a round later.
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Old 04-25-2010, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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Mario Williams was in large part a developmental pick and he went first overall and has worked out quite well for the Texans. So I don't see why taking JPP at 15 is so outrageous. JPP is even rawer than Mario, but he was also taken about half a round later.
Mario Williams was not a developmental pick. That GM and scouting staff did one hell of a job in ignoring that Reggie Bush hype, and examining the player for his potential, production, and what he can bring to the team. In fact I never was a fan of Bush. I wanted the Texans to pick Williams. The guy is a freak who had great potential and production. It was an excellent pick. You don't pick a developmental player first overall.

And yes JPP is way more raw than MW. The guy was a JUCO player, and played 1 season in the a major college program, but in a ok conference, the Big East. He has sick potential, and is a true Boom or Bust pick in the sense of the word. When we were on the clock, Mayock had Clausen, and then JPP as the BPA. The Giants had JPP as the 6th best player, and so for them it was an easy pick. While I am not a fan of this pick, like I said I respect Ross for making this pick and sticking to the board. I just don't think you draft developmental players this early. But there is something about him, and he doesn't have start from day 1 so that's good. So until then, I will be patient and see who this all plays out.
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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Sounds like you guys are way down on your draft. You know your team better than I do. I don't think it was anywhere near your awesome draft last year, but I think you should give this a chance. I dunno if you trust Osi ever coming back or what (I don't). I thought the JPP pick definitely filled a need. Tuck is always hurt and isn't Kiwi a FA after the year? Reminds me of the time you drafted Tuck when you already had Strahan and Osi.

It's not like there were any ILBs worth drafting at that spot. Out of curiosity... WHO is the guy you wanted your team to draft at that spot?
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:44 PM    (permalink
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i wanted spoon, easily. his intensity, speed, athleticism and ability to play any lb spot made him the guy i wanted pretty badly.
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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I would have been much happier with Morgan, Spoon, or even Williams.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:44 AM    (permalink
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Mario Williams was not a developmental pick. That GM and scouting staff did one hell of a job in ignoring that Reggie Bush hype, and examining the player for his potential, production, and what he can bring to the team. In fact I never was a fan of Bush. I wanted the Texans to pick Williams. The guy is a freak who had great potential and production. It was an excellent pick. You don't pick a developmental player first overall.

And yes JPP is way more raw than MW. The guy was a JUCO player, and played 1 season in the a major college program, but in a ok conference, the Big East. He has sick potential, and is a true Boom or Bust pick in the sense of the word. When we were on the clock, Mayock had Clausen, and then JPP as the BPA. The Giants had JPP as the 6th best player, and so for them it was an easy pick. While I am not a fan of this pick, like I said I respect Ross for making this pick and sticking to the board. I just don't think you draft developmental players this early. But there is something about him, and he doesn't have start from day 1 so that's good. So until then, I will be patient and see who this all plays out.
Look I loved Mario and if you go back in the archives I was one of the ones defending the Texans decision, that said he was not very productive, in fact he didn't even become a top 5 lock until the offseason because of how inconsistent and disappointing his play was on a stacked DL. Kid was an insane freak and was a good kid, but despite good numbers, he got most of his production against vastly inferior competition. So when he was picked he wasn't picked for the player he was but the player he would become which is how I define a developmental prospect, I know all players that make it improve and adjust at the NFL level, but Mario was a guy drafted much more based off of what he could become.

Look, I too am loathe to draft players as raw as JPP but he's a good kid, he has a very high motor and seems like he cares about becoming a top tier player which IMO are the most important intangibles for a project player because it ensures that he'll try and put the work in. He may never put his tools together completely and become the dominant perennial probowler he's capable of becoming, but I feel very confident that since we're going to be patient with him he'll at least become a quality starting DE. Considering he'll spend much of his career opposite Tuck even if he's just a quality starter he'll get to make plays and be a solid pick. It'll take some time, but I really feel good about our chances of him not busting, of course that's assuming he doesn't have his knees destroyed or some other freak incident to derail his career.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:48 AM    (permalink
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I would have been much happier with Morgan, Spoon, or even Williams.
Why would we draft Morgan when we could just re-sign Kiwi if all we wanted was a solid but unspectacular starter? Spoon I get although being a former DL I don't value LBs nearly as much as I do Lineman. Dan Williams would have been my choice although I do like Linval Joseph a lot as well. If not DW I would've tried really hard to trade down a little for Pouncey.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 04-26-2010, 07:35 AM    (permalink
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Look I loved Mario and if you go back in the archives I was one of the ones defending the Texans decision, that said he was not very productive, in fact he didn't even become a top 5 lock until the offseason because of how inconsistent and disappointing his play was on a stacked DL. Kid was an insane freak and was a good kid, but despite good numbers, he got most of his production against vastly inferior competition. So when he was picked he wasn't picked for the player he was but the player he would become which is how I define a developmental prospect, I know all players that make it improve and adjust at the NFL level, but Mario was a guy drafted much more based off of what he could become.

Look, I too am loathe to draft players as raw as JPP but he's a good kid, he has a very high motor and seems like he cares about becoming a top tier player which IMO are the most important intangibles for a project player because it ensures that he'll try and put the work in. He may never put his tools together completely and become the dominant perennial probowler he's capable of becoming, but I feel very confident that since we're going to be patient with him he'll at least become a quality starting DE. Considering he'll spend much of his career opposite Tuck even if he's just a quality starter he'll get to make plays and be a solid pick. It'll take some time, but I really feel good about our chances of him not busting, of course that's assuming he doesn't have his knees destroyed or some other freak incident to derail his career.

Mario Williams was MUCH more of a sure thing than JPP though. In my opinion it's not accurate comparing the two players. One is the first overall pick, who might have played not good competition, while the other played basically 1 year of major football and got 6.5 sacks. It seems the biggest hype out of this kid is his ability to do back flips. Granted he has other good qualities that translates into potential, but Mario Williams was a stud. Great physical attributes, and let's put it this way, he was that good that he got picked over Bush who had production, competition, and hype. So Williams had a lot of things going for him. Maybe not as much as Bush, but few people, including myself saw Bush was a back who probably won't do so well as a starting back in the NFL, while Williams physical size and abilities could translate to a every down DE.

I think JPP has tons of potential, and the good thing is we don't have to start him already. We can ease him in, which is fine I guess, but for a mid first round pick, I wanted someone with experience, production, and some one who could possibly start from day 1. JPP basically is a true investment for down the road with Kiwi or Osi probably leaving next year. I see him as the DE of the future. But like I said before, I do respect the fact we stuck to the draft board. At least that makes me happy.
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:19 AM    (permalink
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Why didn't Reese get Weatherspoon at #15 if McClain was the main target, MLB was the biggest need, and McClain was already gone?

Sure JPP has nice upside but wouldn't Weatherspoon be the much better fit as MLB in Fewell's Tampa-2?
Spoon would make a solid Tampa 2 MIKE, but would be a horrible fit if we ran our aggressive 46 style defense.

With us passing on Spoon, getting Joseph, and drafting another DE to play SAM, all indications seem to be us not running the tampa 2.

Supposedly some of our scouts felt he was strictly a WILL in our scheme, so we didn't have a need for him.

I love Spoon, but if we are in fact running Spag's scheme, he would be a horrible fit.

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He is pretty athletic and produced in college, but he's like another Clint Sintim type... I don't understand the pick, unless rumors are true about Sintim to MLB... but that would more or less throw all Cover 2 talk out of the window.
He's depth at SAM. We have no depth at SAM, DeOssie sucks. This guy will be a STer who can potentially develop into Sintim's backup. Sintim is our SAM. Like you said, its more indication that we won't run a Tampa 2.

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I hate this pick with a passion! You don't draft A Developmental pick with the 15th pick. However, Ross gave an explaination that we had ranked JPP 6th overall. And he fell to us, so it was an easy choice accordingly to him. So... with that said, I am willing to be patient to see how this works, even though I am very mad, and skeptical of this pick. At least I respect that they stuck to their draft board. Let's see how good Ross is. So far Nicks and KP were good picks, so I trust Ross still.
Every draft pick is a developmental guy. Some more than others. We almost always redshirt our rookies anyway, so I don't see the problem with it. The guy will come in on 3rd downs and provide depth in our pass rush (which was dismal last year) and a long term replacement for Kiwi. I love the pick.

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We need a 2011 thread. Anyone wanna start it up?
I'll get on that today.

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Sounds like you guys are way down on your draft. You know your team better than I do. I don't think it was anywhere near your awesome draft last year, but I think you should give this a chance. I dunno if you trust Osi ever coming back or what (I don't). I thought the JPP pick definitely filled a need. Tuck is always hurt and isn't Kiwi a FA after the year? Reminds me of the time you drafted Tuck when you already had Strahan and Osi.

It's not like there were any ILBs worth drafting at that spot. Out of curiosity... WHO is the guy you wanted your team to draft at that spot?
I don't think this draft is as good as last years. Last year's draft gave us 3 immediate quality starters in Nicks, Sintim, and Beatty. And potentially high quality depth players who can turn into solid starters in Brown, Barden, and possibly Beckum.

This year's draft is more about projected talent. I can see JPP and Joseph being staples on our dline for years to come, and Chad Jones being a solid contributor in time, but its much more difficult projecting this draft bc we took a bunch of projects.

Realistically, I can see JPP and Joseph being the only major contributors. However, we do have some interesting projects I want to keep an eye on. Petrus interests me. He's a project lineman, but has the measurables to be solid in a year or 2. He needs to strengthen his lower body, and work on technique since he's a project player, but I'm hoping we can turn this guy into O'Hara's replacement with a year of training.

I don't want to sound too homerish (probably too late) but Tracy intrigues me a lot. I like this pick. He may be our new Chase Blackburn, a guy who can just be a solid reliable backup who provides quality snaps for our team.

Overall I like our draft, just not as much as last year's. I do think this is a draft that will require much more patience, bc we drafted pretty much a project player in every round, so we can't throw this class to the wolves after 1 year. I think this class will look bad after 1 year, but 3 years from now, could potentially be amazing, maybe even our best class yet.

It could also be our worst class yet. It all depends on how these guys develop. Quite honestly, I'm glad Reese took some risks in this draft. We need more athleticism throughout our team, particularly on defense, and he went out and drafted athletes.

I'm giving our draft a C+ for now, but it could change easily to an A or an F depending on how these guys develop.
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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Why would we draft Morgan when we could just re-sign Kiwi if all we wanted was a solid but unspectacular starter? Spoon I get although being a former DL I don't value LBs nearly as much as I do Lineman. Dan Williams would have been my choice although I do like Linval Joseph a lot as well. If not DW I would've tried really hard to trade down a little for Pouncey.
Kiwi is going to get more money than Morgan. Also we know what we have in Kiwi while Morgan has the chance to be a better player. I like the Joseph pick a lot also but say we took Dan Williams in Round 1 then maybe we could have picked up Daryl Washington in Round 2.
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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Every draft pick is a developmental guy. Some more than others. We almost always redshirt our rookies anyway, so I don't see the problem with it. The guy will come in on 3rd downs and provide depth in our pass rush (which was dismal last year) and a long term replacement for Kiwi. I love the pick.
Yeah, but it meant it in the "some more than others" kind of way. Clearly every player has to be developed. No prospect is perfect, and so it's up to the coaching staff, and system to help mold and coach up that prospect and help fulfill that potential which was scouted by the scouts.

Yeah I understand how he will be used and how he can be developed slowly with no rush. But still he hasn't played enough football, and I just think with the 15th overall pick, you want someone more proven i guess. It would seem the potential, along with the physical ability is what allowed us to risk this pick. But like I said, we had him graded as the 6th best player, so I trust Ross. Now let's see how JPP does. So far I haven't been upset with Ross and his first round picks of KP, and Nicks.
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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It's Reese not Ross.
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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It's Reese not Ross.
Ross.. as in Marc Ross
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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Ross.. as in Marc Ross
Oh ok. Well I know he's our director of scouting but these are still Reese picks so he desverves the credit or blame.
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