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Old 06-17-2010, 12:33 PM    (permalink
MaxV
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That's different.

Bay was a Mets' prospect.

Homegrown Talent baby! :)
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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I'm not talking about building through the draft dammit. I'm talking about "we need cost controlled talent like John Niese"

**** John Niese
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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And while we wait for people to Google Jason Bay and see whether or not I'm right about Bay being a Mets prospect at some point.....
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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I'm not talking about building through the draft dammit. I'm talking about "we need cost controlled talent like John Niese"

**** John Niese
I wouldn't say a high revenue team needs it. But it's nice. Pitching gets way overpaid in this league. When you have even a solid number three who you can pay nothing to for four years, it allows you to improve your team elsewhere. Even the high revenue teams have budgets. Cheap good pitching allows you to get better position players. Where I personally think you get a better bang for your buck on the free agent market.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Yeah the Mets farm doesn't produce anything. Wright, Reyes, Pelfrey, Davis, Niese, Mejia, Pagan are all lousy.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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What have you done for me lately in terms of huge impact players? Other teams have better pipelines and better talent, albeit with less financial resources. Can you honestly say you think that the Mets can replenish their current starters with farm guys over time?
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Brodeur I don't think the Oswalt and Haren contracts are that bad at all compared to what Lee is going to want. Haren especially.

Dan haren:

10:$8.25M, 11:$12.75M, 12:$12.75M, 13:$15.5M club option ($3.5M buyout)

Roy Oswalt:

10:$15M, 11:$16M, 12:$16M club option ($2M buyout)
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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What have you done for me lately in terms of huge impact players? Other teams have better pipelines and better talent, albeit with less financial resources. Can you honestly say you think that the Mets can replenish their current starters with farm guys over time?
The one thing I don't defend about the Mets is the way we draft, I hate it. Absolutely hate it. We do well in international area though and still produce good players with our crappy drafts. By next year we should have an all farm grown IF for the long haul. Also, we'll have a backup catcher from the farm and maybe 3/5 of the rotation from the farm. Nothing wrong with that.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Haren is the best option in terms of cost/benefit, but he'll be super pricey to pry away from AZ. I don't know if the Mets can afford to pay that asking price in 2010.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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I think the Phillies and Rays are the best examples of successful homegrown teams from the last decade. I also give huge props to the Red Sox for how they run their farm. Even the Yanks are getting into the act more. I also have huge respect for how Minnesota gets things done. Naturally, the Marlins are also great at running their organization based on the economics of the game.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Haren is the best option in terms of cost/benefit, but he'll be super pricey to pry away from AZ. I don't know if the Mets can afford to pay that asking price in 2010.
If Mets offered Fernando, Mejia, Tejada and another lower level arm like with upside like Allen, Carson, or Familia I think the D'backs would take that.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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I note the Phillies bc they were able to add some key players (Lee, Blanton, Halladay) using their prospects in addition to getting a few guys via FA (like Ibanez) to fill in gaps. They haven't made a huge FA splash bc they haven't had to. They have just locked up their guys to deals that are reasonable.

Obviously, I'm severely anti the Howard deal bc of the length of that contract...
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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If Mets offered Fernando, Mejia, Tejada and another lower level arm like with upside like Allen, Carson, or Familia I think the D'backs would take that.
I don't think the DBacks are going to take that deal. I actually believe they'll hold Haren at least 1 more year. His contract isn't really that bad at all. They'll need a Cliff Lee type prospect package for Haren. I don't believe those 3-4 guys get it done.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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I don't think the DBacks are going to take that deal. I actually believe they'll hold Haren at least 1 more year. His contract isn't really that bad at all. They'll need a Cliff Lee type prospect package for Haren. I don't believe those 3-4 guys get it done.
The prospects that were dealt for Lee in both trades were not good. The Indians got robbed by you guys and I don't think the Mariners did that much better even though it's still early.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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The Lee deal hinges on Jason Knapp. He was the super high upside guy. I agree that the Indians didn't get full value, but it was probably the best deal on the table for them. They had to pare the salary. Sad state of affairs really... I happened to really like Knapp. He could end up haunting the Phils.

The Mariners gave up prospects in the Halladay-Lee deal. The Blue Jays ended up with the prospect haul in Travis D'Aurnaud, Kyle Drabek, and Michael Taylor (flipped for Brett Wallace).
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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The Lee deal hinges on Jason Knapp. He was the super high upside guy. I agree that the Indians didn't get full value, but it was probably the best deal on the table for them. They had to pare the salary. Sad state of affairs really... I happened to really like Knapp. He could end up haunting the Phils.

The Mariners gave up prospects in the Halladay-Lee deal. The Blue Jays ended up with the prospect haul in Travis D'Aurnaud, Kyle Drabek, and Michael Taylor (flipped for Brett Wallace).
I know who they got but I just don't think they are starts in the making. Drabek walks too many batters and Micheal Taylor sucks. He was always old for the league and he's been terrible in AAA. The Jays were smart enough to deal him for Wallace.
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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I kind of wish that the Phillies would have just traded for both Halladay and Lee, made their run at the WS in 2009 and 2010, then seen what happened. Bah!
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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I kind of wish that the Phillies would have just traded for both Halladay and Lee, made their run at the WS in 2009 and 2010, then seen what happened. Bah!
Well I just didn't see how much better they got with Halladay. In the regular season sure. But can you really expect Halladay to pitch any better than Lee did last year in the playoffs? But I guess you can expect Halladay more likely to pitch like that than Lee to do it again.
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Just to catch up since we were on Mets related matters.


Pagan being a 4th OF on a good team is absolutely hilarious. Not sure if you guys have noticed, but there isn't exactly a wealth of amazing players in CF. Around a .350 wOBA with very good defense isn't a 4th OF. Now could he come crashing back down to Earth? Maybe, but he's now got a decent amount of data backing him up as the type of player he is including last year.


Mets suck at drafting, don't think anyone will disagree.

Kirk isn't a bad prospect, and Haren's contract isn't ugly at all Brodeur.

And it's laughable to think the Mets couldn't net a front line pitcher with the young talent they have plus a MLB ready starter in Jon Niese.
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Old 06-17-2010, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Not that I think he can even keep it up but even if he did, wOBA of .350 is like right in the middle for starting CFers this season. On a great team, he'd be a very good bench player.
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Old 06-17-2010, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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Even in the minor leagues, he wasn't doing this well offensively. I second the notion that he cannot do it long term. If I'm wrong, I'm fine to eat crow.
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Old 06-17-2010, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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Zumaya throws a 102 mph heater which Adam Dunn smacks for a single. Entered today with 33 IP 1.91 ERA 32 SO 7BB.
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Old 06-17-2010, 02:27 PM    (permalink
yo123
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Ubaldo isn't fair.
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Old 06-17-2010, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jughead10 View Post
Not that I think he can even keep it up but even if he did, wOBA of .350 is like right in the middle for starting CFers this season. On a great team, he'd be a very good bench player.

It would place him 11th in addition to tremendous defense. I'm not saying he's a star, but you don't have stars at every position even on great teams.
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Old 06-17-2010, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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Ubaldo isn't fair.
Having a star like Jesse Crain isn't fair either.
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