MLB Discussion Thread

[prock]

Originally Posted by djp

There's room aboard the Twins bandwagon, Xio, if you're interested.

I second this.

[BigDawg819]

Originally Posted by djp

There's room aboard the Twins bandwagon, Xio, if you're interested.

Jumping abroad a division rival is prohibited by Major League Baseball and its subsidiaries.

[Philliez01]

Originally Posted by Xiomera

The Phillies are ******* stupid. Seriously, they never should have traded Cliff Lee. Their GM deserves to be fired for gutting the system and having nothing to show for it.

Well if you want to count back since the Blanton trade, and this is just from memory, the Phils have traded the following prospects.

Adrian Cardenas
Matt Spencer (throwaway)
Josh Outman
Brian Schlitter (for Eyre)
Jason Knapp
Carlos Carrasco
Lou Marson
Jason Donald
Michael Taylor
Travis d'Arnaud
Kyle Drabek

and received

Cliff Lee (flipped for Phillipe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and JC Ramirez)
Ben Francisco
Scott Eyre
Joe Blanton
Roy Halladay
--------------

The Phillies still have a decent farm system even excluding Dom Brown. With Jarred Cosart, Brody Colvin and Colby Shreve (the latter being a mid-rotation guy), they have some highly projectable arms in Lakewood and while a lot of analysts like Cosart; I'm a fan of Colvin. Anthony Gose has developed a bit as a hitter though while he stole 70+ bases last year, he's been caught nearly 20+ times in Clearwater. Jon Singleton is one of the better infielder prospects in low-A (think him and Cosart got Honorable Mention in midseason 50? Or something like that) and Villar is emerging pretty decently.

Jiwan James and Aaron Altherr are extremely raw but have been solid in Lakewood though still a long away from prospects.
---------------

WHAT A MINUTE **** AMARO. He's (allegedly) trading JA Happ, Scott Mathieson, Anthony Gose and JON SINGLETON?

Ugh. Not worth it. Weren't the Phillies only bidding against themselves? I'm not a fan at all of Happ but seriously not a huge fan at all. Prospects are meant to be traded IMO but Singleton is the only real viable IF prospect the Phillies have (even though Villar and Harold Garcia are OK, just not starter quality I don't think).

This is apparently according to Bob Garber so no confirmation. My source is basically the comments section of Phuture Phillies (top Phillies prospect site). Keppinger and an 8million buyout too?

[tjsunstein]

If that is true, Amaro should be out the door immediately.

[thenewfeature06]

Phils have a deal in place with Roy Oswalt pending his approval..

[comahan]

I highly doubt we'll get Singleton.

[ATLDirtyBirds]

Heyman has the Astros getting bent the **** over.

[thenewfeature06]

I would give up Singleton haha IDC.. that team is struggling for some odd reason right now. As long as they don't go trading doc and Roy theyll be in the hunt for the next 3-4 years.

Other notes in the deal according to Jayson Stark.. JA Happ as the frontier of the package as well as Jeff Keppingger going to the Phils.

[tjsunstein]

Originally Posted by thenewfeature06

I would give up Singleton haha IDC.. that team is struggling for some odd reason right now. As long as they don't go trading doc and Roy theyll be in the hunt for the next 3-4 years.

Other notes in the deal according to Jayson Stark.. JA Happ as the frontier of the package as well as Jeff Keppingger going to the Phils.

The reason we're struggling is because of constant health issues, not some odd reason.

Happ has already peaked. He peaked last year. His value is at an all time high right now. It's not that I'm upset at what we're giving up for Oswalt, although it leans in favor of the Astros, it's just why gut our system for Oswalt after trying to restore it by giving up Lee? Should have kept Lee. This is just Amaro's way of admitting so.

[thenewfeature06]

Originally Posted by tjsunstein

The reason we're struggling is because of constant health issues, not some odd reason.

Happ has already peaked. He peaked last year. His value is at an all time high right now. It's not that I'm upset at what we're giving up for Oswalt, although it leans in favor of the Astros, it's just why gut our system for Oswalt after trying to restore it by giving up Lee? Should have kept Lee. This is just Amaro's way of admitting so.

Well yeah health is a piece of the pie but I mean guys like Raul Ibanez and Victorino haven't played as well they did say last year. Like I said though getting Oswalt is really solid, and I kind of forgot he has pitched in the postseason lol, 4-0 and with Hamels and Roy being that good that 123 will be among the best. If the bats come alive they could potentially get right back to the WS.

[Jughead10]

Jeff Keppinger will be useful for the Phils. Getting him back is a nice bonus. Obviously you guys should have held onto Lee, but he made it clear he wanted to get to FA and make 20 million a year. You guys thought you could win the NL without him. Amaro could not have seen these injuries happening. Now while Oswalt isn't nearly as good Lee, You have him for basically a 2 year 32 million dollar contract after this season. Not the 5 year 100 million that Lee will want at minimum.

[tjsunstein]

Originally Posted by thenewfeature06

Well yeah health is a piece of the pie but I mean guys like Raul Ibanez and Victorino haven't played as well they did say last year. Like I said though getting Oswalt is really solid, and I kind of forgot he has pitched in the postseason lol, 4-0 and with Hamels and Roy being that good that 123 will be among the best. If the bats come alive they could potentially get right back to the WS.

Raul is another completely ridiculous signing (Raul>Burrell). Halladay and Oswalt is great for the playoffs, I won't contest that.

Originally Posted by Jughead10

Jeff Keppinger will be useful for the Phils. Getting him back is a nice bonus. Obviously you guys should have held onto Lee, but he made it clear he wanted to get to FA and make 20 million a year. You guys thought you could win the NL without him. Amaro could not have seen these injuries happening. Now while Oswalt isn't nearly as good Lee, You have him for basically a 2 year 32 million dollar contract after this season. Not the 5 year 100 million that Lee will want at minimum.

As much as Lee loved Philly, I believe he would have signed for 16 mil a year. Keppinger is a great addition, I hate seeing what we trot out there in place of Utley every night.

Basically, I'm doing what I hate. I'm comparing this trade to 'what ifs'.

[comahan]

Wheres the Keppinger talk coming from? I cant find any sort of legit source thats even brought him up. It just looks like Oswalt and a lot of his contract for Happ and 2 others.

[thenewfeature06]

On first take this morning they had Jayson Stark and asked him about some of the terms, and he was mentioned so... yea lol of course it isn't official.

[Xiomera]

Originally Posted by djp

There's room aboard the Twins bandwagon, Xio, if you're interested.

I would only join so as to secretly dismantle it and drive it off a pier ... into a volcano.

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Jeremy Hellickson pulled in a start after 3 innings. No hits, 4 k's. Injury or Trade? Either makes me cry.

Edit: No injury.

[comahan]

10:17am: The identities of the other two players going to Houston remain unknown, but ESPN's Jayson Stark says the Astros have pushed hard for minor league first baseman Jonathan Singleton. Stark has an unconfirmed rumor from a strong source that the Astros offered to pay $12MM to the Phillies in the deal.

10:43am: MLB.com's Todd Zolecki tweets that he hears Singleton is in the deal, but Rosenthal tweets that the first baseman is not. Rosenthal believes the Phillies are getting less than $12MM, guessing a few million less.

[Jughead10]

I have to think Singleton is in it. Otherwise the package is completely underwhelming. Especially if the Astros are picking up any of the contract.

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Originally Posted by Jughead10

I have to think Singleton is in it. Otherwise the package is completely underwhelming. Especially if the Astros are picking up any of the contract.

Yeah, it's not like Happ is some exciting wonderkid.

[Notredameleo]

I hate life....Look at the Tigers lineup....6 automatic outs!

[bsaza2358]

I'll say what you're all thinking: If the Phillies had just kept Cliff Lee, this wouldn't even be an issue right now...

[Jughead10]

Originally Posted by Tampa 2 4 life

Yeah, it's not like Happ is some exciting wonderkid.

Neither are any of the other players. The Astros must be really hard up to get rid of a lot of Oswalt's contract if they are willing to pay nearly as much as is being reported. Complete turnaround from how McLane used to act.

[M.O.T.H.]

I still never expected the Phils to move Happ, though. Mildly surprised.

[bsaza2358]

It's a tough pill to swallow, but Happ will probably never be what Oswalt is now. That alone makes it worth it. I like Happ a lot, but he's a #3 at best. Oswalt would be one of the best #2's out there right now and is pretty reasonable for next year as well.

[ATLDirtyBirds]

It's amazing how highly teams value pitchers like Joe Saunders and Happ.