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Old 09-28-2010, 05:41 PM    (permalink
Babylon
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I havent got to see them yet but i have to be impressed with what they're doing in Tampa, they loaded up on the defensive line and have their QB for the next decade, which should free them up to score some playmakers in the next draft..
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Old 09-28-2010, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by A Perfect Score View Post
Theoretically? Tons of them. It isn't just coaching, it's a combination of things, many of which I posted on the page before. I'm a firm believer that the situation that a prospect goes into has a huge effect on the player that they will become. What's the difference between Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith? Its a capable offensive line, dynamic receivers, and a consistency within a system. I do understand that Rodger's offensive line hasn't been stellar, but it's been better then what Smith suffered through after being thrown to the wolves as a rookie. Whats the difference between David Carr or Tim Couch and Carson Palmer? Its the same thing. Yes, there are undoubtedly players and people who are exceptions to these circumstances, but all in all it has a HUGE effect on the way these guys develop. Thinking otherwise is just ridiculous.
Disagree. If a player has good talent, it'll show through regardless of the coaching or system or even players around them. You don't go from a Couch or a Carr to a Carson Palmer or Romo solely based on the situation.

Jeff Garcia was a pro bowl player in SF then made stops in Clev, Phil, TB and while not at the same level, still a good enough QB to lead his teams to generally winning records.

Matt Cassell was a pb in NE and despite pop opinion has been pretty good in KC with a completely different system/players. Plummer was a better player in the Den system but always showed more than flashes of good play in Ari. I'm drawing a blank on anyone of late absolutely dreadful in one spot, and than a completely different player in another place or vice versa.

The situation certainly can make the difference of going from a good player to a great player (Brees) but it's just not the huge factor in turning a terrible QB into a gem.
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Last edited by Brown Leader : 09-28-2010 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 09-28-2010, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Disagree. If a player has good talent, it'll show through regardless of the coaching or system or even players around them. You don't go from a Couch or a Carr to a Carson Palmer or Romo solely based on the situation.

Jeff Garcia was a pro bowl player in SF then made stops in Clev, Phil, TB and while not at the same level, still a good enough QB to lead his teams to generally winning records.

Matt Cassell was a pb in NE and despite pop opinion has been pretty good in KC with a completely different system/players. Plummer was a better player in the Den system but always showed more than flashes of good play in Ari. I'm drawing a blank on anyone of late absolutely dreadful in one spot, and than a completely different player in another place or vice versa.

The situation certainly can make the difference of going from a good player to a great player (Brees) but it's just not the huge factor in turning a terrible QB into a gem.
You just proved my argument for me. Carr and Couch clearly had immense amounts of talent, thats why they were drafted where they were. Talent was never the missing variable in the equation. You said it yourself. Garcia was a pro bowler when he was surrounded by talent in SF, but floundered elsewhere. Cassell looked great throwing to Moss and Welker behind that oline, but has been subpar in KC. Situation plays a HUGE role in the way a player develops. Enormous.
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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No. You can't turn a piece of **** into a gold nugget. Put a good player into any situation, there still a good player. A bad player is bad no matter what's around him or who coaches him. Garcia looked like a PB player for a time in Philly and Tampa. Cassell's play in KC hasn't matched NE but subpar? I'd say fairly good given the situation.

Eh, many factors go into being a highly touted QB prospect-physical talent vs mental aptitude-level of competition, but it's why the position is so hard to predict. Drafted where they were just sets the expectations.
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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Carr wasn't going to be a good QB anywhere he went, he looked lost and can't sense a rush to save his life, even though he has more experience getting sacked than anyone.
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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Where do you get this from? And while where on the subject, how many Tampa games have you seen beginning to end? Let's be honest about it too. Especially since you want to call a DT a bust before 4 games into his career.


Jesus. It's so hard to take alot of post around here seriously reading some of this stuff.


Initial write-up was good though.

Josh Freeman looked good against a crappy Cleveland and Carolina defense. Lets see what he looks like against Cincy's defense next week. They are going to pick him off left and right. They will make him look like garbage.
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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i dont ******* understand you. Freeman did not look bad versus teh Steelers. Not a single bit.
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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Obviously his talent evaluation is teh rulez.

Players fall on a scale between garbage and good. In the middle being okay or more commonly known as Apple Bee's.
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Old 10-01-2010, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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i dont ******* understand you. Freeman did not look bad versus teh Steelers. Not a single bit.
He looked like garbage. That entire team is garbage.
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Old 10-01-2010, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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He looked like garbage. That entire team is garbage.

You should post more, your insight on things you have no idea what your talking about is what this forum could use more of.
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Old 10-02-2010, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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You should post more, your insight on things you have no idea what your talking about is what this forum could use more of.
Freeman has an 84.5 QB rating which is ranked 17th. Last time I checked that is below average.
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Old 10-02-2010, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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Freeman has an 84.5 QB rating which is ranked 17th. Last time I checked that is below average.
If you purely judge QBs on ******* passer rating then you need to GTFO.
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Old 10-02-2010, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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Leinart put up a 110.3-passer rating during the preseason.

Passer rating loves completions, any completion. It doesn't know the difference between a dump off where the player runs in for a score and an end zone pass.

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Old 10-02-2010, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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You should post more, your insight on things you have no idea what your talking about is what this forum could use more of.
Agree.

I thought Freeman looked bloody good against the Steelers who are arguably the top defense in the NFL. He played admirably considering he is still learning the game and is getting used to a very inexperienced receiving corp.
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Old 10-02-2010, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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Passer rating means so much.
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