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Old 10-11-2010, 09:56 PM    (permalink
Notredameleo
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I would much rather see a Boise State/TCU championship game than a LSU/Auburn or Ohio State/LSU championship game. For two reasons, 1: I like both teams, and they have earned their shot. 2: When the NCAA and the conferences start losing money, maybe they will understand that the BCS is garbage!
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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How weak are TCU and Boise State's schedules really?

The Big East gets an automatic BCS bid and the only team in the Top 25 is West Virginia... at 25.

The ACC gets an automatic BCS bid and the only team in the Top 25 is Florida State... at 16.

The Mountain West has #4 TCU, #11 Utah, and #23 Air Force while the WAC has #3 Boise State #19 Nevada and the Broncos and Horned Frogs played better OOC schedules than anyone else in contention for the National Title. I just don't see how you keep them out over a 1-loss team from the SEC or anywhere else. It's just ridiculous.
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
How weak are TCU and Boise State's schedules really?

The Big East gets an automatic BCS bid and the only team in the Top 25 is West Virginia... at 25.

The ACC gets an automatic BCS bid and the only team in the Top 25 is Florida State... at 16.

The Mountain West has #4 TCU, #11 Utah, and #23 Air Force while the WAC has #3 Boise State #19 Nevada and the Broncos and Horned Frogs played better OOC schedules than anyone else in contention for the National Title. I just don't see how you keep them out over a 1-loss team from the SEC or anywhere else. It's just ridiculous.
That's fine, but we aren't talking about BCS. We are talking about national title which Big East/ACC aren't touching. I've never said it is Boise's fault, it is the BCS' fault, but if you aren't in the SEC, Big Ten, or Big 12, you aren't going to sniff the national title unless there is less than two undefeated teams from those conferences.
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Notredameleo View Post
I would much rather see a Boise State/TCU championship game than a LSU/Auburn or Ohio State/LSU championship game. For two reasons, 1: I like both teams, and they have earned their shot. 2: When the NCAA and the conferences start losing money, maybe they will understand that the BCS is garbage!
Boise/TCU's Bowl game last year was one of the lowest rated Bowl games in history. It was down 21 percent from the year before for the Fiesta Bowl. Right near it? The Boise/Oklahoma game. The NCAA makes money by keeping TCU and Boise out of big games. Sad, but true. We all will watch no matter what, the casual fan won't. That won't help change the system.
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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The ignorance in regards to this subject is just mind-boggling.

Do you know how college football scheduling works? YOU CAN'T PUT A TEAM ON YOUR SCHEDULE IF THEY DON'T WANT TO SCHEDULE YOU. So yeah, it kind of is other teams' jobs to get them a tougher schedule.
You do realize that Boise (yes, podunk Boise) demands $1M to play an away game without a return visit. That is insane. What big school is going to do that? Schedule a decent team and pay them so you don't have to play on their podunk blue field?

Former podunk teams didn't pop up over night. FSU took all comers. Virginia Tech as well. Ransoming the big boys isn't the way to do it.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by P-L View Post
The ignorance in regards to this subject is just mind-boggling. I keep hearing excuses, excuses, and more excuses but no solutions to the problem. It's too easy just to keep spouting off "OMG!!! They only play two good teamzz. They suck. LOL!!!" without actually putting any thought into what you're saying.


Do you know how college football scheduling works? YOU CAN'T PUT A TEAM ON YOUR SCHEDULE IF THEY DON'T WANT TO SCHEDULE YOU. So yeah, it kind of is other teams' jobs to get them a tougher schedule. You think Alabama is begging Boise for a game but the Broncos said "Nah, we'll schedule Toledo instead"? In case you missed it Boise State just joined a conference starting next year featuring four other very solid teams just to watch two of those teams get up and leave the conference immediately after. Please explain to me a realistic way for Boise State to strengthen it's schedule. If you know how they can, and it sounds like you do, I would like to know. Gene Bleymaier is dying to know as well.


Win all of your games? Too ******* bad your not going to the National Championship game. We like this team who didn't win all of their games better.

Much better message to send.
Teams in BCS conferences don't schedule Boise because their conference schedules are tough enough that that they don't need an OOC victory over Boise State.

In a BCS conference teams have to prep every single week like the team they're playing has a legitimate chance to beat them because they usually do. They have to play their starters the entire game. The rigors of the schedule demand that they have depth.

Boise plays opponents that are so bad it can pretty much just show up and win. Most of its games are over with at the half.

I'm sorry that Boise isn't in a BCS conference but the fact is that it is isn't. It is much easier for Boise to go undefeated than it would be for any other BCS conference team. If Boise wants to get in to a NC game, get in a BCS conference. Otherwise, tough luck.

Now of course this is all under the BCS system. If Boise were to get a to a NC game via a playoff system, then they would obviously deserve to be there.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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Id be all for a Boise or tcu team in a national championship, if they deserve it. Them getting in over an undefeated SEC, big 10, or Big 12 team as suggested in this thread is ********.

If they're the only ones left, sure they can play for it. But if not, they definitely shouldn't get in over a team that plays tougher competition.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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Do you know how college football scheduling works? YOU CAN'T PUT A TEAM ON YOUR SCHEDULE IF THEY DON'T WANT TO SCHEDULE YOU. So yeah, it kind of is other teams' jobs to get them a tougher schedule. You think Alabama is begging Boise for a game but the Broncos said "Nah, we'll schedule Toledo instead"? In case you missed it Boise State just joined a conference starting next year featuring four other very solid teams just to watch two of those teams get up and leave the conference immediately after. Please explain to me a realistic way for Boise State to strengthen it's schedule. If you know how they can, and it sounds like you do, I would like to know. Gene Bleymaier is dying to know as well.

I don't have a solution for Boise, but its not my problem, or the other teams in the nations problem to solve. Only Boise is responsible for the schedule they play. They have to find a way to improve it if they want to get in over teams that play much stronger schedules. I've said on here the move to the MWC is a positive step for Boise, but with teams leaving that conference they're still going to have to find a way to schedule a stronger ooc schedule then most teams to make up for weaker conference play.

But I guess you're right since you used all caps.
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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Id be all for a Boise or tcu team in a national championship, if they deserve it. Them getting in over an undefeated SEC, big 10, or Big 12 team as suggested in this thread is ********.

If they're the only ones left, sure they can play for it. But if not, they definitely shouldn't get in over a team that plays tougher competition.
So your fine with them getting in over 1 loss say Bama team? Or undefeated Pac-10 team?
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:14 AM    (permalink
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You are joking, right? An undefeated SEC team doesn't go over Boise? An undefeated Big 12 team? You can say it is overrated, but it sure counts.
All you can ask is do you honestly think Boise would go undefeated in the SEC.. I think the answer is no. If there is an undefeated team in any of the major conferences I think that will be the question at hand... Could Boise or TCU go undefeated in those conferences... Yea they play in these games and get wins but they prepare for them like none other.

I agree with Shane that it counts for a lot.

If anything I just see as them trying to give Boise some love before they break their hearts when they don't get in the NC
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:39 AM    (permalink
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yes, that podunk little #3 overall team. but i bet if you say 'podunk' a few more times, it might actually come true and will sound less, well, childish.
Your arrogance and continuous ranting are, well, childish. But most of us are adults wasting time talking about a game that a bunch of kids play, so I guess we are, well, all, a bit, childish (superfluous commas for extra pomposity).

I do agree that it's about money. Why should the big schools and the big conferences give the little guys everything that they want?

The point stands that it takes many years to develop a brand, many dollars to develop a sports program, and a lot of dedicated people to elevate a program to a national level. When other teams of similar ilk (i.e. FSU and VT) were barnstorming the nation, they weren't making ridiculous demands. They played anyone, anywhere. Now they are a part of the club.

BSU looks to be a team just like those guys. But the ridiculous home/home requirement is too much. The big boys see that as a lose/lose. Tough non-BCS team that wants a home/home in their tiny stadium with a blue field? Either that or pay $1M for the privilege to play them? Not happening very often unless someone like ESPN would make the deal extra sweet for the large school.

WRT the BCS, the system is severely flawed. It's rigged for traditional powers, obviously. A playoff would be the ideal way to determine a champion, and hopefully we all see it before we die.

The thing is, most non-BCS schools flat out suck at football and have no business being in the same system. I mean, there are also quite a few BCS schools that flat out suck at football. It's an expensive, difficult sport. Forcing the top schools to play each other more is appealing.

Leaving an avenue for the non-BCS schools in a playoff future is a must as well. I think it will happen.

Also, I'd like to wipe out the Big East. They are almost all playing MAC level football now.
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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yes, just ask the ACC/Big East. or let's stop pretending like "BCS conferences" has anything to do with it.



yes, no doubt nebraska preps all week for that huge game with CU right before the big 12 championship. meanwhile, boise couldn't care less before playing nevada. i know TCU won't prep at all for utah. or air force. total gimmes.



which is, of course, why OSU schedules ohio, marshall and eastern michigan for half of it's season. so it can rest up for big games like illinois, indiana, penn state and minnesota.

oregon? i can only imagine the strain of playing new mexico, and portland state in preparation for a really tough matchup against washington state, UCLA, arizona state, or washington. they must have had nightmares about portland state.



the only relevant points thus far regarding TCU and boise are jbond's. the only reason these teams will never, ever play in the NC is money. i can't imagine the BCS letting them in over two loss teams if they could find any way to avoid it. which is pathetic. football fans should be ashamed of themselves.
First, a general point. The practice of going through and separating a argument in the way that is so popular on this site is a lame one. Arguments should be refuted in their entirety.

You use the exceptions on Boise State and TCU's schedule to argue that it is strong and the exceptions on BCS conference schedules to argue they are weak. This is a poor argument.

Teams in BCS conferences will face more consistent challenges throughout the season, making it harder to go undefeated. This is irrefutable.
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:49 AM    (permalink
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Boise State vs Auburn/Oregon in the NC game

You heard it here first
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:51 AM    (permalink
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First, a general point. The practice of going through and separating a argument in the way that is so popular on this site is a lame one. Arguments should be refuted in their entirety.

You use the exceptions on Boise State and TCU's schedule to argue that it is strong and the exceptions on BCS conference schedules to argue they are weak. This is a poor argument.

Teams in BCS conferences will face more consistent challenges throughout the season, making it harder to go undefeated. This is irrefutable.
Well put.

Especially that last point. The numbers don't lie.
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Old 10-12-2010, 02:22 AM    (permalink
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Just give me a 8 game playoff or something like that. That way if there are a couple of these undefeated teams (like Boise and TCU) from non BCS leagues they have a chance to prove and compare themselves against the BCS conference schools in an actual games. If it is just a bad team that went undefeated against a terrible league, then they probably won't be in that top 8 ranking.


What is the major counter point from a fans perspective on a limited playoff system?

I know for the people who make money that they just don't want to lose all that cash from the individual bowl games.
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Old 10-12-2010, 07:38 AM    (permalink
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my arrogance and ranting?



fully agree with almost all of this. i wouldn't expect, say, alabama to schedule BSU for that cost or out of the goodness of its heart. and i get why they don't want the home/home. though i'd add that, for a lot of these teams, i think there's an element of fear at this point. nothing worse than agreeing to play BSU or TCU then actually losing to them.
Perhaps, but Oregon and Virginia Tech have played Boise. Sure, they aren't OSU, Texas, USC, Oklahoma, Bama, or Florida, but they have been consistent top teams in their conferences. And when given the choice for say Ohio State to go with Miami (FL) or Boise or to go with Oklahoma or Boise, it is an obvious choice. Alabama isn't going to choose to play Boise over Penn State for their big OOC game. The system doesn't really favor big time OOC games, but many of these top teams do it or are trying to do it, Boise included. If the reward was actually there for beating a Top 25 team, any top 25 team, then teams would leap to schedule a TCU or Boise. The fact is, Alabama gets more credit for beating a mediocre Penn State team than had they scheduled Boise and won. That's the system.

It isn't Boise's fault they aren't getting into the National Title, but that doesn't mean they SHOULD compete for the National Title.
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Old 10-12-2010, 07:43 AM    (permalink
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That's fine, but we aren't talking about BCS. We are talking about national title which Big East/ACC aren't touching. I've never said it is Boise's fault, it is the BCS' fault, but if you aren't in the SEC, Big Ten, or Big 12, you aren't going to sniff the national title unless there is less than two undefeated teams from those conferences.
If an ACC or Big East team were undefeated, would they be getting anywhere near the amount of grief about their schedules? The answer is absolutely not. They would be in line behind an SEC, Big XII, or Big 10 team, but there wouldn't be any crap about a 1-loss team going to the National Title over them, which is what this discussion is coming down to.
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Old 10-12-2010, 08:21 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
my arrogance and ranting?
:) I'm facetious dork. Sorry.

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fully agree with almost all of this. i wouldn't expect, say, alabama to schedule BSU for that cost or out of the goodness of its heart. and i get why they don't want the home/home. though i'd add that, for a lot of these teams, i think there's an element of fear at this point. nothing worse than agreeing to play BSU or TCU then actually losing to them.
It's sad that it's come down to this. This is almost solely the cause of the BCS and it's ridiculous formula. W-L record reigns supreme, as do the biased, reactionary voting of coaches.

The system needs to start rewarding difficult schedules more. That is a nice temporary fix.
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Old 10-12-2010, 08:40 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
If an ACC or Big East team were undefeated, would they be getting anywhere near the amount of grief about their schedules? The answer is absolutely not. They would be in line behind an SEC, Big XII, or Big 10 team, but there wouldn't be any crap about a 1-loss team going to the National Title over them, which is what this discussion is coming down to.
I will slightly disagree with that. I think a Big East team would get some grief about their schedule. I don't think and undefeated UConn team would make the national title game TBH. Beating Michigan and Vanderbilt as their OOC and a weak Big East? They would have still been behind Boise.
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Old 10-12-2010, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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The Big East this year would take tons of grief for having an undefeated team sniff the NC game. It's the worst I've seen the Big East ever. Hell even the year where WV, Louisville, and Rutgers were all Top 10 teams they were getting grief and had people saying they shouldnt go to a NC game. All those teams ended up losing at least once but people had their pitchforks ready to go.
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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So your fine with them getting in over 1 loss say Bama team? Or undefeated Pac-10 team?
Over 1 loss bama, I'd accept but prefer Bame. While I think a 1 loss Bama is so much more impressive then an undefeated Boise, Bama could have won all their games. I wouldn't feel too bad for any team with a loss missing the game.

An undefeated PAC 10 team definitely should get in over Boise or TCU.
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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Can you imagine what would have been said had Cincy played for the national title say if Texas lost the Big 12 title game?

People hate the Big Easts weak schedule just as much as Boises. That said, Boises is even worse then a Big East schedule.
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Can you imagine what would have been said had Cincy played for the national title say if Texas lost the Big 12 title game?
Cincy was actually #2 in the computer polls at the end of last season... it wouldn't have been that farfetched to see Cincy over undefeated Texas.
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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So I just read this on Espn.com. Computer rankings takes out all the emotional toll that it has on voters.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/column...pat&id=5675517

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Boise continued to lose ground to Ohio State and Oregon in the USA Today poll. The Broncos slipped from 101 points behind the Buckeyes to 120 behind, and from 24 points behind the Ducks to 53 behind.

TCU suffered the same indignity. It slipped from 190 points behind Ohio State to 242 behind, and from 113 points behind the Ducks to 175 points behind.

Based on what, you ask? Here's what:

Oregon beat Washington State by 20.

Ohio State beat Indiana by 28.

Boise beat Toledo by 43.

TCU beat Wyoming by 45.

Average computer rankings for those four, as of this week: Toledo 57.2, Wyoming 68, Indiana 83.2, Washington State 94.8.
Also another funny thing.

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Oregon State (13). The Beavers have played an incredible schedule to date -- at Boise, at TCU, at Arizona. They lost the first two in respectable fashion, by a combined 22 points. They beat then-No. 9 Arizona on Saturday. Their reward? No ranking, and fewer votes than a Texas team that has been a flaming disappointment so far.
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Can you imagine what would have been said had Cincy played for the national title say if Texas lost the Big 12 title game?

People hate the Big Easts weak schedule just as much as Boises. That said, Boises is even worse then a Big East schedule.
Hey if you loose the title game you loose. Florida lost to Bama in the title game or else Florida could have made the argument that if a 1 loss Texas can play them why can't Florida?
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