Joe Flacco/Matt Ryan

[Jvig43]

I feel confident saying Flacco is better then Ryan.

[killxswitch]

I don't know how with the Ravens OL, defense, new receivers, and running game you can not be disappointed in Flacco's performance so far. I am not talking about relative to whatever other QBs are doing. Flacco and Ryan can't control that. I'm talking about what they (and probably specifically Flacco) are doing with their current teams. Flacco had an overrated rookie season, a pretty good 2nd season, and from my point of view he is backsliding this year. What is he doing every week that is impressive? He's not scoring points. He's not completing tons of passes to his receivers. He's not producing. He's throwing INTs. Anyone can stand in the pocket and look poised behind that OL. That wouldn't be enough for me anymore and I'm surprised Ravens fans are fine with it. Maybe he will turn it around this season, but we are more than a 3rd of the way through. Is 7 TDs and 6 INTs really acceptable?

[thefalconer]

flacco without a doubt undoubtedly is better than ryan.

[RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES]

Originally Posted by killxswitch

I don't know how with the Ravens OL, defense, new receivers, and running game you can not be disappointed in Flacco's performance so far. I am not talking about relative to whatever other QBs are doing. Flacco and Ryan can't control that. I'm talking about what they (and probably specifically Flacco) are doing with their current teams. Flacco had an overrated rookie season, a pretty good 2nd season, and from my point of view he is backsliding this year. What is he doing every week that is impressive? He's not scoring points. He's not completing tons of passes to his receivers. He's not producing. He's throwing INTs. Anyone can stand in the pocket and look poised behind that OL. That wouldn't be enough for me anymore and I'm surprised Ravens fans are fine with it. Maybe he will turn it around this season, but we are more than a 3rd of the way through. Is 7 TDs and 6 INTs really acceptable?

7TD's 6INTS but 4 came from the Bengals game and He is like 5 TD's 0 picks since.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Originally Posted by killxswitch

I don't know how with the Ravens OL, defense, new receivers, and running game you can not be disappointed in Flacco's performance so far. I am not talking about relative to whatever other QBs are doing. Flacco and Ryan can't control that. I'm talking about what they (and probably specifically Flacco) are doing with their current teams. Flacco had an overrated rookie season, a pretty good 2nd season, and from my point of view he is backsliding this year. What is he doing every week that is impressive? He's not scoring points. He's not completing tons of passes to his receivers. He's not producing. He's throwing INTs. Anyone can stand in the pocket and look poised behind that OL. That wouldn't be enough for me anymore and I'm surprised Ravens fans are fine with it. Maybe he will turn it around this season, but we are more than a 3rd of the way through. Is 7 TDs and 6 INTs really acceptable?

I agree. I caught the Jets game and the first half of the Pats game and I have not been impressed with him at all. Against the Pats he had a great comp% in that half, but watching it, all I could think about was how incredibly wide open guys were. In the Jets game I saw him be inaccurate, float balls, just being generally awful. Really, really hasn't impressed me.

Although to be fair to his numbers, 4 of those INTs came in one game, so assuming he doesn't have another on-field abortion, that ratio should improve.

[BmoreBlackByrdz]

Originally Posted by killxswitch

I don't know how with the Ravens OL, defense, new receivers, and running game you can not be disappointed in Flacco's performance so far. I am not talking about relative to whatever other QBs are doing. Flacco and Ryan can't control that. I'm talking about what they (and probably specifically Flacco) are doing with their current teams. Flacco had an overrated rookie season, a pretty good 2nd season, and from my point of view he is backsliding this year. What is he doing every week that is impressive? He's not scoring points. He's not completing tons of passes to his receivers. He's not producing. He's throwing INTs. Anyone can stand in the pocket and look poised behind that OL. That wouldn't be enough for me anymore and I'm surprised Ravens fans are fine with it. Maybe he will turn it around this season, but we are more than a 3rd of the way through. Is 7 TDs and 6 INTs really acceptable?

what are you taking about? He not "throwing INTs" every week. Maybe if you paid a little attention, you'd see that he threw 4 in one game, and only throw 1 since then.

Here are his stats since the Bengals game,

6 Touchdowns 1 Interception
999 Passing Yards 87/128
68% Completion Rate
7.8 YPA

103.6 Quarterback Rating

and for your statement that "he's not completeing passes to his WRs"
His leading WR vs. New England was Derrick Mason... a Wide Receiver
He's done nothing but spread the ball around this year.

"He's not scoring points"

Well, he's the QB for one of the most balanced offenses in the game.
Last week vs. Denver, our running game had 47 carries 200+ yards and 4 Touchdowns. When you run the ball that well, he doesn't need to score.
Week before that, he lead the Ravens down the field to throw the game winning TD pass.

my point being -He doesn't need to put up 400+ yards and 3 TD's each game for us to win.

I understand you don't like Flacco's preformance, but atleast critisize it in a logical way instead of saying things that aren't true.

[killxswitch]

How can you guys just throw out a 4 INT game like it doesn't matter? He threw those passes, right? You can twist it however you want but he still threw them. If the offense is so balanced, then I guess you wouldn't need a great QB to win, so in that respect I understand not minding that Flacco isn't that good.

[RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES]

Originally Posted by killxswitch

How can you guys just throw out a 4 INT game like it doesn't matter? He threw those passes, right? You can twist it however you want but he still threw them. If the offense is so balanced, then I guess you wouldn't need a great QB to win, so in that respect I understand not minding that Flacco isn't that good.

Don't act like Flacco is the only QB to throw 4 interceptions in a game. That game is past us and we moved on. He has been more than a good QB since. You can have your opinion but you have no legit arguement that proves he isn't a good QB. You must be comparing him to Manning.

[killxswitch]

I'm very sorry to all the butt-hurt Ravens fans (mainly RWO, thanks for the neg rep buddy) that are upset that their 1st round QB is so average. And if you want to compare him to somebody, I guess your best bet is Shaun Hill. You know, the backup Lions QB with an inferior OL, defense, and running game.

[RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES]

Originally Posted by killxswitch

I'm very sorry to all the butt-hurt Ravens fans (mainly RWO, thanks for the neg rep buddy) that are upset that their 1st round QB is so average. And if you want to compare him to somebody, I guess your best bet is Shaun Hill. You know, the backup Lions QB with an inferior OL, defense, and running game.

The reason you got neg repped was because you make no sense and bring no valid points to your arguement. My 1st round QB is more than I expected. I'm sorry that my team doesn't have to rely on one person to win games for them and we can rely on multiple phases of the game.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Neither are going to be star QB's but if anyone has a chance it's Flacco. I'm tired of Ryan. I hate how announcers still treat him like he's a rookie constantly applauding his intangibles and such. The fact is that he's a completely mediocre QB who doesn't seem to have that much more room for growth. He's kind of hit his peak as a rookie. He'll have flashes but I just don't see him getting any better. Flacco on the otherhand can look like Jason Campbell at times, but at other times he shows a real good ability to put the ball on his receivers quick. His pocket awareness though is poor. He stands way too tall in the pocket and doesn't show a good sense of when to leave the pocket. He's a sitting duck for pass rushers.

[RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES]

I agree Flacco isn't a star QB and he has things he needs to work on but this douche bag is trying to make it like he is a bust.

[ATLDirtyBirds]

Flacco hasn't been overly impressive, but Matt's just been below average.

[bam bam]

Originally Posted by killxswitch

I don't know how with the Ravens OL, defense, new receivers, and running game you can not be disappointed in Flacco's performance so far.

Cam Cameron. (with a splash of Flacco)

[killxswitch]

Originally Posted by RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES

The reason you got neg repped was because you make no sense and bring no valid points to your arguement. My 1st round QB is more than I expected. I'm sorry that my team doesn't have to rely on one person to win games for them and we can rely on multiple phases of the game.

I know, you told me all about it already when you threw your hissy fit. But "I don't like what you say" does not equal "your points are invalid". If Flacco was a good QB he would be doing more every game than what he does, because of that balance you are so proud of. I understand your low expectations but an actual good QB would be doing more with that much talent around him.

edit: I didn't call him a bust. Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, and Alex Smith are busts. I'm saying Flacco is overrated and if I were a Ravens fan I would expect more from a 1st rounder with such a strong team around him.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

Neither are going to be star QB's but if anyone has a chance it's Flacco. I'm tired of Ryan. I hate how announcers still treat him like he's a rookie constantly applauding his intangibles and such. The fact is that he's a completely mediocre QB who doesn't seem to have that much more room for growth. He's kind of hit his peak as a rookie. He'll have flashes but I just don't see him getting any better. Flacco on the otherhand can look like Jason Campbell at times, but at other times he shows a real good ability to put the ball on his receivers quick. His pocket awareness though is poor. He stands way too tall in the pocket and doesn't show a good sense of when to leave the pocket. He's a sitting duck for pass rushers.

Nailed it on the head. I'm afraid Ryan has already peaked, I don't see him getting any better. And his peak seems to be mediocrity.

However, that's not to say he's a qb you can't win with. You can win a SB with Matt Ryan at qb. And at the end of the day, that's all you ask for.

While he's mediocre, he does have a clutchness to him, and as long as you minimize his role and ask him to make a limited number of plays, he's good enough to win a championship with.

[Shiver]

*cough* Eli Manning *cough*

[Ravens1991]

whats your overall assesment on Flacco BBD?

[bigbluedefense]

I do see similarities, but Ryan isn't in Eli's league when it comes to arm strength or reading defenses.

While Eli was streaky, people underestimate how much Burress and Shockey held him back bc of our choice route offense. Eli even early in his career was a pro at reading defenses and making the right reads, but more often than not his WRs were running wrong routes.

Its no coincidence that once he had WRs who practiced with him and ran the right routes that his numbers improved, and when Shockey left the team we started winning playoff games. Shockey was at fault for many many INTs.

Ryan has had the luxury of building chemistry with his WRs and running a much simpler offense, yet he doesn't make quick decisions sometimes and he doesn't read the defense nearly as well as Eli did at the same stage of his career.

He's still above average in this department, he does a better job at adjustments than many qbs in the league, but Eli was and still is on a different level in that department.

I'll give Ryan more time, but he's looking like he's peaked to me.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Ravens1991

whats your overall assesment on Flacco BBD?

Great arm strength, he can make throws that very few qbs can make, he can throw it on a rope, good overall accuracy, great mobility and can throw on the run.

Buuut, still has a ways to go with reading defenses, making line calls, and improving his pocket presence.

He's really like a skinnier taller version of Ben Roethlisberger.

However, I have more faith in Flacco correcting his flaws than Ryan correcting his. Ryan is often limited by his physical short comings. Improving pocket presence is something Flacco can improve rather easily.

If he wants to improve his ability to adjust plays and read defenses, he needs to study more, or maybe he'll never get it.

But Ben can't read a defense for his life, and he makes it work with his backyard football style. So as long as you have that arm, its no big deal.

[BmoreBlackByrdz]

Originally Posted by killxswitch

How can you guys just throw out a 4 INT game like it doesn't matter? He threw those passes, right? You can twist it however you want but he still threw them. If the offense is so balanced, then I guess you wouldn't need a great QB to win, so in that respect I understand not minding that Flacco isn't that good.

IIRC, your very own Peyton Manning threw 6 INT's vs. the Chargers a while back. Nobody is denying the fact that Flacco threw 4 picks in 1 game. The point I'm making is that Flacco has indeed rebounded.

Also keep in mind, that 66%(4/6) of the Ravens games were road games.
We've played the Bengals, Jets, Steelers, and Patriots defense in the first 6 weeks.

Originally Posted by killxswitch

I know, you told me all about it already when you threw your hissy fit. But "I don't like what you say" does not equal "your points are invalid". If Flacco was a good QB he would be doing more every game than what he does, because of that balance you are so proud of. I understand your low expectations but an actual good QB would be doing more with that much talent around him.

edit: I didn't call him a bust. Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, and Alex Smith are busts. I'm saying Flacco is overrated and if I were a Ravens fan I would expect more from a 1st rounder with such a strong team around him.

Well, as I stated earlier, why exactly does Flacco need to make so many plays? Especially on a day when our run game is averaging 4-5 YPC?

No one Raven fan put Flacco on the same level as Brees, Brady or Manning. Not even on the Rivers, Rodgers, or Roethlisberger level.

Sure we expect more from Flacco but he's the best QB we've ever had in Baltimore and we still believe he's improving...

but people like you, who wanna see QB's throw for 300+ yards and 3 TD's a game are surely to be disappointed.
If you seriously judge a QB by the numbers, then you probably think Kyle Orton is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers....

[Halsey]

If Ryan is below average, who are the 15 or 16 QBs better than him?

[Jvig43]

Originally Posted by Halsey

If Ryan is below average, who are the 15 or 16 QBs better than him?

Oh this will be fun.

Brady
Manning
Manning
Mcnabb
Vick
rapelessburger
Rodgers
Brees
Shaub
Cutler (having a better year despite the Oline play)
Farve
Orton
Rivers
Vince young who just wins games
Flacco


Boom.

[bigbluedefense]

In no order

Peyton
Brady
Brees
Eli
Ben
Rivers
Schaub
Romo
Vick
Rodgers
Flacco

Maaaybe McNabb. And maaaaybe Favre. And maybe even Cutler if he had an oline. But let's exclude those 3 guys, I count about 11 better which would make him somewhere in the 12-15 range. I think thats a fair spot for him. Which makes him slightly above average, which is probably what he is.

[bigbluedefense]

Actually yeah, I'll put Mac5 and Cutler ahead of him. Id say Favre too but he's having ashit year so far. So that makes him 14.

I hate lists though, so ranking him kind of annoys me.