Week 9 Chiefs @ Raiders

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by Stash

1st, yes, Grad could probably make that throw.

2nd, no I don't like Grad just because he won. If I only liked a QB when a team won, then I'd be here singing praise for Campbell because the Raiders just won 3 in a row with him behind center. But I'm not doing that because it is clear as day that Bruce is a better QB and the Raiders are winning despite Campbell, not because of him. And no, Campbell did not make more than 3-4 good throws, you obviously just have some kind of man crush on him. Grad can make the tight throws that Campbell throws 10 feet wide or right to a defender, I think you need to give Bruce his due.

The only thing Campbell proved is that he isn't very good at throwing a football. The Raiders won today mostly because of good D, a big ST play, and 3-4 good throws from the QB late in the game. If he was halfway competent, he wouldn't have sucked for 3.5 quarters.

I have a man crush on Campbell?? LMAO!!! And what do you call your infatuation with the little journeyman who caught lighting in a bottle on his 4th team??? At least I just offered some criticism of Campbell. I have yet to see you do the same regarding Bruce Alrighty.

Look, I can't argue with you on this anymore. You are far too willing to abandon logic and ignore certain evidence that is starting you square in the face. Campbell has a better completion %, more wins, he lead the team to three consecutive victories, a record number of points, a record yardage total, he proved he could be clutch and bring the team from behind and yet it's clear to you that Grad is head and shoulders a better QB even though he can't stay healthy and three other teams sent him packing. Have fun being right!

[Stash]

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

Getting sacks and actually scrambling are two different things. Jason needs to throw the damn ball away instead of running out of bound or getting stacked. And guess what? Grad almost died the last two times he scrambled and tried to play Mr. Tough guy. That's why he is out now. He's NOT a starter, he's a good back up.

Oh, and I believe the man threw the ball more than 5 yards tonight....multiple times.....in the most clutch situations. He makes the plays that are there, not the ones that aren't. I am amazing you would argue with three wins in a row....amazed.

PS: I watch every game, every play and I can tell you all about them.

If he was a good scrambler he would be able to avoid more sacks, it's that simple. The only valid point you've made is that Bruce gets hurt a lot, but that's hardly a good reason not to start a guy. Putting the better QB on the bench because you're scared he might get hurt is idiotic.

He did throw the ball more than 5 yards, what's your point? I said he rarely throws beyond 5 yards which he proved again tonight. Maybe you should read a little more carefully before you post.

There are plenty of plays there, and Campbell consistently doesn't make them. I'm amazed you're trying to give Campbell credit for the 3 wins when he was clearly holding us back each and every time.

[Stash]

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

I have a man crush on Campbell?? LMAO!!! And what do you call your infatuation with the little journeyman who caught lighting in a bottle on his 4th team??? At least I just offered some criticism of Campbell. I have yet to see you do the same regarding Bruce Alrighty.

I've critisized Bruce on several occasions in the past when he was playing. I even said he was just an average-above average QB for us. I can't criticize him now because he didn't play; Campbell did and he sucked except for a few plays late.

Look, I can't argue with you on this anymore. You are far too willing to abandon logic and ignore certain evidence that is starting you square in the face. Campbell has a better completion %, more wins, he lead the team to three consecutive victories, a record number of points, a record yardage total, he proved he could be clutch and bring the team from behind and yet it's clear to you that Grad is head and shoulders a better QB even though he can't stay healthy and three other teams sent him packing. Have fun being right!

Me abandon logic? That is absolutely hilarious. In this very paragraph you defy logic left and right. I already told you why Campbell has the better completion % but you're still clinging to it, you're giving him credit for 3 wins and all those points that he had almost nothing to do with. The vast majority of that was DMC + Bush playing like monsters. Campbell just turned and handed them the ball or dumped it to them in the flats. Have fun being wrong!

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by Stash

If he was a good scrambler he would be able to avoid more sacks, it's that simple. The only valid point you've made is that Bruce gets hurt a lot, but that's hardly a good reason not to start a guy. Putting the better QB on the bench because you're scared he might get hurt is idiotic.

He did throw the ball more than 5 yards, what's your point? I said he rarely throws beyond 5 yards which he proved again tonight. Maybe you should read a little more carefully before you post.

There are plenty of plays there, and Campbell consistently doesn't make them. I'm amazed you're trying to give Campbell credit for the 3 wins when he was clearly holding us back each and every time.

Well, this is getting downright silly, but Grad averages 2.6 a rush and Campbell averages 3.6, but I have a feeling you will either explain away or completely ignore this fact as you have the others. You are emotionally attached to Gradkowski because he gave us hope when it appears there was none. His time has passed. We have changed the O-line and some of the young players like Reece and Ford have stepped it up on offense. The defense is playing much better and Jackson has gotten into a Groove. We don't need Grad's wreckless plays anymore. We need boring Jason to run the offense and keep winning and we need Grad to hold on tight to that clipboard and be ready to go. Raider on!

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by Stash

I've critisized Bruce on several occasions in the past when he was playing. I even said he was just an average-above average QB for us. I can't criticize him now because he didn't play; Campbell did and he sucked except for a few plays late.


Me abandon logic? That is absolutely hilarious. In this very paragraph you defy logic left and right. I already told you why Campbell has the better completion % but you're still clinging to it, you're giving him credit for 3 wins and all those points that he had almost nothing to do with. The vast majority of that was DMC + Bush playing like monsters. Campbell just turned and handed them the ball or dumped it to them in the flats. Have fun being wrong!

So what?? Where is it written that the wins are less meaningful if the QB doesn't take over the game single handedly? What's wrong with dumping the ball off to a weapon like McFadden? What's wrong with running up the score and moving the ball to 500+ yards of offense? What's wrong with taking what the defense is serving up on a platter? And if you think Jason had little to do with this win, you are delusional in your lovefest for Gradkowski. JC had everything to do with this win. The last time I checked, he threw all 6 of Ford's receptions including the ones to set up each FG to put the game in overtime and win the game in overtime. Now stop, this is embarassing. You would be happy with the win and the division lead as a Raiders fan.

Campbell just turned and handed them the ball or dumped it to them in the flats.

"Just" win, baby!

[Stash]

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

Well, this is getting downright silly, but Grad averages 2.6 a rush and Campbell averages 3.6, but I have a feeling you will either explain away or completely ignore this fact as you have the others. You are emotionally attached to Gradkowski because he gave us hope when it appears there was none. His time has passed. We have changed the O-line and some of the young players like Reece and Ford have stepped it up on offense. The defense is playing much better and Jackson has gotten into a Groove. We don't need Grad's wreckless plays anymore. We need boring Jason to run the offense and keep winning and we need Grad to hold on tight to that clipboard and be ready to go. Raider on!

Averaging a yard more per run doesn't change the fact that Campbell routinely stands in the pocket holding onto the ball far too long when he should be scrambling. Bruce has been guilty of that at times as well, but Campbell does it much more often. You are emotionally attached to Campbell because the Raiders have won 3 games in a row when he started. The defense is playing better, now we need a better QB who can help us win games instead of being liability and forcing everyone else to pick up the slack.

[Stash]

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

So what?? Where is it written that the wins are less meaningful if the QB doesn't take over the game single handedly? What's wrong with dumping the ball off to a weapon like McFadden? What's wrong with running up the score and moving the ball to 500+ yards of offense? What's wrong with taking what the defense is serving up on a platter? And if you think Jason had little to do with this win, you are delusional in your lovefest for Gradkowski. JC had everything to do with this win. The last time I checked, he threw all 6 of Ford's receptions including the ones to set up each FG to put the game in overtime and win the game in overtime. Now stop, this is embarassing. You would be happy with the win and the division lead as a Raiders fan.

Campbell just turned and handed them the ball or dumped it to them in the flats.

"Just" win, baby!

Nobody has said the wins are less meaningful, I only said Campbell didn't do much to get them. It's a knock on Campbell not the team. Nothing's wrong with dumping the ball to McFaddenn unless it's the only thing you know how to do. Nothing's wrong with 500 yards of offense, I love it, but Campbell didn't have much to do with it. If you think Jason was responsible for this win, you are delusional in your lovefest for him. The fact that the only compliment you have for him is completing 6 passes and 2 field goals says it all. Now stop, this is embarrassing. I am happy with the Raiders win, I just find it silly that you're trying to give the QB credit for it when it was the rest of the team doing most of the work.

It's kind of funny, in most of you're post you basically admitted that Campbell doesn't do much. Thanks for helping me make my point.

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by Stash

Averaging a yard more per run doesn't change the fact that Campbell routinely stands in the pocket holding onto the ball far too long when he should be scrambling. Bruce has been guilty of that at times as well, but Campbell does it much more often. You are emotionally attached to Campbell because the Raiders have won 3 games in a row when he started. The defense is playing better, now we need a better QB who can help us win games instead of being liability and forcing everyone else to pick up the slack.

I actually, I knew Campbell was the better QB years ago. Who didn't know that?

So in your mind, McFadden's career year is a result of "taking up the slack?" Nice. I don't know if you know this or not, but there are 11 men on offense and they are all expected to do their jobs. Maybe not you, but I am estatic to see that the other 10 on offense are doing their jobs.

[619]

RC3, is that you? Nvm, this guy appears to be literate, though egregious at times.

From Russell to Campbell, why do some people continue to think these guys are/were good? Or more laughable, that we are better off with them? Seems nonsensical.

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by Stash

Nobody has said the wins are less meaningful, I only said Campbell didn't do much to get them. It's a knock on Campbell not the team. Nothing's wrong with dumping the ball to McFaddenn unless it's the only thing you know how to do. Nothing's wrong with 500 yards of offense, I love it, but Campbell didn't have much to do with it. If you think Jason was responsible for this win, you are delusional in your lovefest for him. The fact that the only compliment you have for him is completing 6 passes and 2 field goals says it all. Now stop, this is embarrassing. I am happy with the Raiders win, I just find it silly that you're trying to give the QB credit for it when it was the rest of the team doing most of the work.

It's kind of funny, in most of you're post you basically admitted that Campbell doesn't do much. Thanks for helping me make my point.

First off, I never said that Campbell was solely responsible for the win, so you can take back the words you just put in my mouth. Secondly, it's you that is saying that Campbell had little to nothing to do with the wins, and there hasn't been a more idiotic statement made in the history of mankind. You obviously didn't see clutch throw after clutch throw in the fourth quarter of tonight's game......oh wait, you did and you bitched about the first three quarters.

I give credit to Campbell for his play on the field. You give credit to Gradkowski for "moving the ball." Oh yeah, he does that all by his lonesome but Campbell does it some other way. That makes perfect sense to a lunatic.

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by 619

RC3, is that you? Nvm, this guy appears to be literate, though egregious at times.

From Russell to Campbell, why do some people continue to think these guys are/were good? Or more laughable, that we are better off with them? Seems nonsensical.

What exactly is the link between Russell and Campbell as you see it?

[_YL_]

So besides enjoying this win there are people arguing over who is better QB really in a week argue about that but now sit back and enjoy the win.

[619]

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

What exactly is the link between Russell and Campbell as you see it?

Easy. The fact that our team has to continually rally and keep their asses in the game, mostly because of their play, or lack thereof. The exception with Campbell being that he's shown he can take advantage of subpar NFL defenses, thus making him a serviceable option at QB. Bruce has a better pocket presence, is willing to push the ball into the intermediate/deep zones of the field, and knows how to get all receivers involved in the game, not just locking onto one receiver. Did I mention accuracy? No I didn't. Yeah, that too. Pretty underrated aspect of a Hue Jackson offense. Campbell is usually spotty, in that regard.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

Well he should show growth from his first start with a new team starting a rookie C on the road at the Titans, wouldn't ya say? Why are you so convinced the little street ball player is a better STARTER than Jason Campbell?

Because, historically, he's done a whole lot more with a whole lot less as a Raider, he's earned the right to be the starter going into the Pittsburgh game, the team plays at a much higher tempo with him out there, he's the best leader we have, and he makes the pass attack dangerous in a way Campbell hasn't been able to. That enough for you.

You can detract from Bruce's physical abilities by calling him a street player, but that doesn't really mean anything, now does it? Bruce Gradkowski is a better quarterback than Campbell, period. I don't care whether he's starting or coming off the bench. I don't tend to say that a guy should start because the guy behind him sure will be awesome when he replaces my starter.

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck

Because, historically, he's done a whole lot more with a whole lot less as a Raider, he's earned the right to be the starter going into the Pittsburgh game, the team plays at a much higher tempo with him out there, he's the best leader we have, and he makes the pass attack dangerous in a way Campbell hasn't been able to. That enough for you.

You can detract from Bruce's physical abilities by calling him a street player, but that doesn't really mean anything, now does it? Bruce Gradkowski is a better quarterback than Campbell, period. I don't care whether he's starting or coming off the bench. I don't tend to say that a guy should start because the guy behind him sure will be awesome when he replaces my starter.

Yes, it does mean something and that's why I said it. If you would LISTEN, I am giving him credit for what HE does best, and that's improvise and keep plays alive when the line is not good enough to do so the conventional way. You know, like you draw it up.

Now that the line IS blocking, the younger players are gaining experience and Jackson has a better sense of what he has on offense, I believe that Campbell is CLEARLY the better QB to execute a play action, deep passing system. Grad plays a little quicker overall, but he can't stay healthy and he can't throw into tight windows. The line is giving Campbell enough time and with that, he's the better QB.

Grad may have done more with less, but Campbell with do MORE with more.

[619]

Where did you get this imaginitive sense that Gradkowski can't fit the ball into tight windows? We all here have seen him do it routinely while in action. The only issue I have with Gradkowski, aside from his brittleness, is the tipped balls at the LOS. But I can't really blame him there, because for every one of those plays, he more than makes up for it with his knack for moving the ball and keeping the defense fresh on the sidelines. Something we will continue to need as the games get tighter into November and December.

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by 619

Where did you get this imaginitive sense that Gradkowski can't fit the ball into tight windows? We all here have seen him do it routinely while in action. The only issue I have with Gradkowski, aside from his brittleness, is the tipped balls at the LOS. But I can't really blame him there, because for every one of those plays, he more than makes up for it with his knack for moving the ball and keeping the defense fresh on the sidelines. Something we will continue to need as the games get tighter into November and December.

Um, brittleness will keep you out of games. Not being able to be counted on does not equate to being a starter. What makes you think he is a starter and why did 3 other teams give him away?

As far as throwing into windows, Cambpell has a stronger arm, a better vantage point because of his height and is just better at it.

By the way, BEFORE thing game, we were leading the NFL in 4th quarter TOP.

[Xonraider]

Originally Posted by Black Bolt

Campbell is capable of a three game win streak. Campbell can read defenses. Campbell is actually the BETTER scrambler. Campbell can make tough sideline throws with precision. Campbell has a far better completion % and Campbell isn't made out of glass. Let's stop making Grad out to be something he isn't, and that's a starting NFL QB.

Come on, how can you seriosuly look at todays game and say Jason played well? He was terrible. He almost threw an interception on the play to set up the game tying field goal, he got lucky. And then on the final drive the long pass to Ford was probably his only good throw, but he missed Heyward-Bey horribly on a crossing route, stood there like an idiot in the pocket, threw one horrible interception and kept throwing into double coverage plenty of times during the game. On 33 attempts he threw 229 yards, I mean really.

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by Xonraider

Come on, how can you seriosuly look at todays game and say Jason played well? He was terrible. He almost threw an interception on the play to set up the game tying field goal, he got lucky. And then on the final drive the long pass to Ford was probably his only good throw, but he missed Heyward-Bey horribly on a crossing route, stood there like an idiot in the pocket, threw one horrible interception and kept throwing into double coverage plenty of times during the game. On 33 attempts he threw 229 yards, I mean really.

I didn't say he played well for the entire game, did I? On the crossing route, he was HIT by the defender when the threw it. And how can you sit there and claim he only has one good throw for the game? What about the sideline comback routes he hit with perfect timing? HE turned it up when everything counted. I am shocked at how many people want to mess with success.

[NotRickJames]

Campbell played OK today...... got away with a few throws, could've been worse. The throw to Ford was nice, but was one that pretty much any NFL quarterback could have made. A couple of his throws on the sideline were nice too, but that was about it.

Consider that the offensive line has been better for JC than for Grad. Grad didn't have Gallery, and Veldheer is now just coming on. He was getting abused when Grad was in the lineup.

I honestly believe we would have won in regulation by a touchdown or two if Grad started.

I hope we go back to him after the bye. He's the leader this team needs right now.

Game ball obviously goes to Jacoby Ford, who made two huge plays.

[Black Bolt]

Originally Posted by NotRickJames

Campbell played OK today...... got away with a few throws, could've been worse. The throw to Ford was nice, but was one that pretty much any NFL quarterback could have made. A couple of his throws on the sideline were nice too, but that was about it.

Consider that the offensive line has been better for JC than for Grad. Grad didn't have Gallery, and Veldheer is now just coming on. He was getting abused when Grad was in the lineup.

I honestly believe we would have won in regulation by a touchdown or two if Grad started.

I hope we go back to him after the bye. He's the leader this team needs right now.

Game ball obviously goes to Jacoby Ford, who made two huge plays.

You and others feel that way, but I don't automatically make that assumption. Grad may or may not have played better- or he might not have finished the game. The thing it, Jason can run the offense more like it's designed to be run. When you consider that and then the durability, he's the bettetr QB NOW as opposed to then. Just MO.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

If that's the case, that he actually fits what Jackson wants to do much better, than I'm sure Campbell will get the start against Pitt. What I do know is that Cable has been pretty clear that it's Bruce's job when he comes back, so I'm not really sure the coaching staff is as convinced as you seem to be.

[RaiderNation]

Its clear to me after this game that we are the best team in the division, no doubt about it. We were with out our franchise CB, pro bowl TE, starting QB, and 1 starting WR and still could win. Campbell is a good back up but Gradkowski should be the starter against Pittsburgh. We are going to get so many good players back healthy its going to be crazy.

All I have to say from here on out, Just Win Baby!!!

[Paranoidmoonduck]

I'd love to believe that, but I'm waiting to see what happens when we face the Chargers without being handed points. That team scares the crap out of me.

[619]

RaiderNation, don't forget the possibility of Schilens returning! That makes two returning starters at receiver, unless you believe that DHB will remain in the starting lineup, which is very probable.