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Old 11-09-2010, 02:51 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Originally Posted by hockey619 View Post
Ive seen you and YFS point to this. Ive seen the Bill Simmons article, but do you have any legit sources to back that up?

And yes, TO is one tough mofo, that dude wants to win so freaking bad and he tries so hard gotta respect him as a player anyway.
I don't have published sources or evidence, but I do know people who saw Donovan "partying like a champ" in the week leading up to the game, have been watching the guy for most of his career as a division rival and the best QB to come out of the chicagoland area where I live. It's not something I know, but it's something that I find completely believable, especially given friends who claimed to having seen him partying it up in the weeks leading up to the game and people who know his family.

I'm not fully convinced that it was the cause but I wouldn't doubt it at all and would probably put money on it if I had to bet either way. Plus it works really well to emphasize the impact of media spin when you contrast Donovan to TO and public perceptions of the two players.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:59 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Did anyone catch 1st and 10 today? I really wanna hear what excuses lame ass Skip Bayless came up with TO's performance. He's been saying TO should retire, is washed up, a shell of his former self, lost 2 steps, and so many other non observent hating comments about him since his last year in Dallas.


I wanna see how he back tracks now that 3 years later he's still playing like a top 10 WR, and if TO lost a step, the way he's playing, that let's you know how good his prime was.


Anyone have any idea how many more years he has left? Another 3 solid years?
Skip gets too much hate, I don't watch 1st and 10, don't really watch espn at all, but when I have caught moments the guy just seems like he's the guy they always give the losing opinion. They need someone to be the controversy guy and skip does a solid job of being the disagreeable talking head, even though there's clearly some discussions where he's just got nothing, like the Scottie Pippen not a top 50 player debate where he really didn't have anything to say against Scottie even though he had to argue against it.
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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All TO has done this season is keep his mouth shut and play good football. He didn't cause any problems in Buffalo and the problems in Dallas were vastly exaggerated. I think the media was looking to create a problem that wasn't there.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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TO could probably play until he's 90 or so.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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TO could probably play until he's 90 or so.
On pace for 110 catches, 1,540 yards and 14 touchdowns at 14.0 yards per catch. He's incredible.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MidwayMonster31 View Post
All TO has done this season is keep his mouth shut and play good football. He didn't cause any problems in Buffalo and the problems in Dallas were vastly exaggerated. I think the media was looking to create a problem that wasn't there.
Well when you've been selling a guy as a nutjob and team cancer it's kinda rough when he's not playing up to your expectations, so of course you're going to look for any shrivel of news that could help your credibility from being totally tanked.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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Skip gets too much hate, I don't watch 1st and 10, don't really watch espn at all, but when I have caught moments the guy just seems like he's the guy they always give the losing opinion. They need someone to be the controversy guy and skip does a solid job of being the disagreeable talking head, even though there's clearly some discussions where he's just got nothing, like the Scottie Pippen not a top 50 player debate where he really didn't have anything to say against Scottie even though he had to argue against it.


That's the thing, he is a hater. I absolutely HATE when analyst have an obvious bias, or even affection for a player so whenever they come up in a topic they can't put it behind them. There was no reason to say TO was washed up 3 years ago, and every big game TO has had since that point Skip made an excuse for it. He's running out of them at this point though, and he can't ever just eat his crow, bite the bullet and say TO is still dominant and he was wrong because that would make him look bad.


TO for some reason has pissed him off forever now, and he was even saying Roy Williams was gonna be better then him once we got rid of him...Not that Skip was the only one saying that about TO, but Skip hates him for other reasons and I just think it's annoying to have to listen 2 guys who are haters then try and be objective about a topic concerning said player.


People in general who act like TO isn't gonna end up in the Hall of Fame need to let go of the hate. He's right on his way to being looked at in the discussion of top 5 WR of all-time. If he finishes the season on the pace he's at, and keeps it up there is no reason he won't. He's nearly top 3 with Rice and Moss on every single receiving record there is and Moss looks like **** in comparison.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:15 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
That's the thing, he is a hater. I absolutely HATE when analyst have an obvious bias, or even affection for a player so whenever they come up in a topic they can't put it behind them. There was no reason to say TO was washed up 3 years ago, and every big game TO has had since that point Skip made an excuse for it. He's running out of them at this point though, and he can't ever just eat his crow, bite the bullet and say TO is still dominant and he was wrong because that would make him look bad.


TO for some reason has pissed him off forever now, and he was even saying Roy Williams was gonna be better then him once we got rid of him...Not that Skip was the only one saying that about TO, but Skip hates him for other reasons and I just think it's annoying to have to listen 2 guys who are haters then try and be objective about a topic concerning said player.


People in general who act like TO isn't gonna end up in the Hall of Fame need to let go of the hate. He's right on his way to being looked at in the discussion of top 5 WR of all-time. If he finishes the season on the pace he's at, and keeps it up there is no reason he won't. He's nearly top 3 with Rice and Moss on every single receiving record there is and Moss looks like **** in comparison.
*shrug* that's his job, he's the controversy guy who's always supposed to argue against the pervading wisdom. You can see it in the Scottie Pippen argument that he just truly doesn't believe what he's arguing but he's trying his hardest to do his job nonetheless and play the role he's been cast for.
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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I'll take him in Chicago if he doesn't want to catch passes from Palmer next year. Dude may be a prick at times but who the **** cares? He does his job and he does it at a very high level.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.

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Old 11-09-2010, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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All TO has done this season is keep his mouth shut and play good football. He didn't cause any problems in Buffalo and the problems in Dallas were vastly exaggerated. I think the media was looking to create a problem that wasn't there.
Remember when the Cowboys won there 1st playoffs in a couple of years last year and all the media said it was T.O. that held them back, that they wouldn't have won with T.O. there because he is cancer. A year later the cowboys have won 1 game and Wade has been fired haha.


Its the media that blows things up, nobody ever says Brett favre is a selfish player, diva,cancer or anything like that because the media likes him.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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I'll take him in Chicago if he doesn't want to catch passes from Palmer next year. Dude may be a prick at times but who the **** cares? He does his job and he does it at a very high level.
Why would he want a worse QB?
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Why would he want a worse QB?
Exactly, there's no way he stays in Cincy if Chicago comes calling.
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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That's the thing, he is a hater. I absolutely HATE when analyst have an obvious bias, or even affection for a player so whenever they come up in a topic they can't put it behind them. There was no reason to say TO was washed up 3 years ago, and every big game TO has had since that point Skip made an excuse for it. He's running out of them at this point though, and he can't ever just eat his crow, bite the bullet and say TO is still dominant and he was wrong because that would make him look bad.


TO for some reason has pissed him off forever now, and he was even saying Roy Williams was gonna be better then him once we got rid of him...Not that Skip was the only one saying that about TO, but Skip hates him for other reasons and I just think it's annoying to have to listen 2 guys who are haters then try and be objective about a topic concerning said player.


People in general who act like TO isn't gonna end up in the Hall of Fame need to let go of the hate. He's right on his way to being looked at in the discussion of top 5 WR of all-time. If he finishes the season on the pace he's at, and keeps it up there is no reason he won't. He's nearly top 3 with Rice and Moss on every single receiving record there is and Moss looks like **** in comparison.

Remember that voting thread over the summer about who you would vote into the HOF between Moss, Owens, and Harrison and you could only pick one?
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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I hope no one picked Harrison.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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Aha! I've found it.

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42119

Moss: 91 votes
Owens: 15 votes
Harrison: 14 votes
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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Why would he want a worse QB?
Are you referring to Palmer or Cutler?
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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Aha! I've found it.

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42119

Moss: 91 votes
Owens: 15 votes
Harrison: 14 votes
If Moss is actually trying he's the best but when he's just loafing around he's by far the worst of the three.

With Owens you know what you're getting every play, a physical receiver with questionable hands that has big play potential every down and isn't afraid to go over the middle.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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I hope teams that want T.O. have incredible QBs. Dude refuses to go after anything he needs to extend his arms to catch. He's an all-world talent with the worst on-the-field work ethic in football. Every ball needs to be thrown perfectly & stuck to his body or Owens doesn't care about it. He'll typically pull his hands away from catchable balls in an attempt to draw pass interference calls. He leads the league in drops, he doesn't give a **** about anyone on the team other than Chad, and he's cost us games with his laziness... Games he played well: Cleveland & Pittsburgh.. games he may have cost us: Miami, Tampa Bay, & Atlanta. I'd rather just not have to deal with it...

I hope a rival AFC North team decides to pick him up.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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If Moss is actually trying he's the best but when he's just loafing around he's by far the worst of the three.

With Owens you know what you're getting every play, a physical receiver with questionable hands that has big play potential every down and isn't afraid to go over the middle.
Agreed. They're essentially 1a and 1b for this generation, and everyone else is an afterthought.

The fact that Harrison was actually ahead of TO in that poll for some time astounds me.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Aha! I've found it.

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42119

Moss: 91 votes
Owens: 15 votes
Harrison: 14 votes
Owen should of gotten 14 more votes or Moss
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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I hope teams that want T.O. have incredible QBs. Dude refuses to go after anything he needs to extend his arms to catch. He's an all-world talent with the worst on-the-field work ethic in football. Every ball needs to be thrown perfectly & stuck to his body or Owens doesn't care about it. He'll typically pull his hands away from catchable balls in an attempt to draw pass interference calls. He leads the league in drops, he doesn't give a **** about anyone on the team other than Chad, and he's cost us games with his laziness... Games he played well: Cleveland & Pittsburgh.. games he may have cost us: Miami, Tampa Bay, & Atlanta. I'd rather just not have to deal with it...

I hope a rival AFC North team decides to pick him up.
Did you not see that catch he made in front of troy?
Palmer cost you most of those games not T.O., Palmer just sucks now
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:02 PM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
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Did you not see that catch he made in front of troy?
Palmer cost you most of those games not T.O., Palmer just sucks now
No, it's TO's fault that he refuses to catch Carson Palmer's hospital balls.
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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Are you referring to Palmer or Cutler?
I was expressing my hatred for Cutler.
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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Did you not see that catch he made in front of troy?
Palmer cost you most of those games not T.O., Palmer just sucks now
I know it's tough to watch the Bengals when they're not on national television, but some people should really look into that. T.O. has cost us games, Palmer's average these days. By no means could anyone make a legitimate argument for Palmer being any less than an average starting Quarterback. One of the reasons you can't make that argument is he's had no running game & his excellent supporting cast leads the league in dropped balls (as well as an alarming amount of misrun routes by mostly Chad & the rookies.)

ESPN tore up T.O. before the game for his mistakes and his lack of effort, guess no one caught that. He wound up having a good one last night, combine that with good statistics and the casual football fan thinks Owens is the only reason the Bengals are even competitive (within 7-10 points every game.) It's laughable at this point. People that have watched one game think they know more than the people that have seen every single one.

Oh well, people are going to be confused why the Bengals make no play at re-signing T.O. or Chad after the season (while keeping Carson as the starting QB and not targeting one in the first round.) The casual fan will ***** & moan while Bengals fans will let you know that that's what was going to happen all along. Carson needs receivers that care about putting the effort in for the teams sake, not for the glorification of their own name.
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Pudge...

Marvin Lewis, Palmer, Ocho, and TO will most likely be gone after this year.

Maybe the Bengals will hire someone who doesn't think the best way to build a team is through a bunch of egos that they can't control.
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