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Old 11-09-2010, 03:51 PM    (permalink
Paranoidmoonduck
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I don't really believe in the idea of someone being better off the bench. This is pro football, there are no relief quarterbacks. You start the best guy and plan on him finishing a game.

That said, if Campbell can work the ball down-field reliably, I'm more than happy for him to get the start. We need someone who will take risks against that Pitt defense or the running game will get no room at all.
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Old 11-09-2010, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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Cable likes Bruce - so I reckon if Campbell plays poorly this week and we lose, it'll be Grad's job again.
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Old 11-09-2010, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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I don't really believe in the idea of someone being better off the bench. This is pro football, there are no relief quarterbacks. You start the best guy and plan on him finishing a game.

That said, if Campbell can work the ball down-field reliably, I'm more than happy for him to get the start. We need someone who will take risks against that Pitt defense or the running game will get no room at all.
Sure there are, unless you consider Charlie Batch a starting QB. The point you are either missing or ignoring is that Gradkowski cannot stay healthy, and when you can't be relied upon to be on the field, you can't be considered a full time starter.
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Sure there are, unless you consider Charlie Batch a starting QB. The point you are either missing or ignoring is that Gradkowski cannot stay healthy, and when you can't be relied upon to be on the field, you can't be considered a full time starter.
It's good to have a good backup in case, but that's not a "relief" quarterback. If you say Campbell is a better starter and that Bruce is better off the bench, that's a very odd statement. One is the better quarterback when on the field, no matter whether they start the game or come into it mid-way. This isn't baseball, there are no closers.

If Bruce is not healthy for the Pittsburgh game, then it's a no-brainer. It didn't seem that his shoulder was healthy even when he was playing early in the season, so I would support giving him as much time he needs to really be healthy. But there's a difference between saying he cannot be healthy and he has not been healthy. Bruce has not been healthy, but there's no evidence that would be properly sufficient to say that he can never been healthy.
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Sure there are, unless you consider Charlie Batch a starting QB. The point you are either missing or ignoring is that Gradkowski cannot stay healthy, and when you can't be relied upon to be on the field, you can't be considered a full time starter.
Where's that coming from? Gradkowski has only been injured twice, and they probably rushed him back the first time. He does need to learn how to slide though, or he will continue to get injured.
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Old 11-10-2010, 09:23 AM    (permalink
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Where's that coming from? Gradkowski has only been injured twice, and they probably rushed him back the first time. He does need to learn how to slide though, or he will continue to get injured.
He's been injured twice? He was injured and throwing up because he took two big hits when he tried to run the ball. He's too small to hold up to those sort of hits. Every time he gets sacks, he looks like he's going to die because he is TOO SMALL. He tore his pec bench pressing over the summer. He was knocked out of the starting spot last year from a hit. He came back his year and got reinjured. How does this not qualify as injury prone? If he isn't injury prone, then the terms shouldn't exist in the English language. I'm not trying to mean to the guy, but these are the facts. And if he is as good on the field as people claim, the question has to asked, why did three other teams who needed QBs get rid of him? I would bet that part of their thinking was that he could not physically hold up as a starter in the NFL.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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why did three other teams who needed QBs get rid of him? I would bet that part of their thinking was that he could not physically hold up as a starter in the NFL.
I'll be honest, he was pretty bad until he joined the Raiders. I remember seeing the Redskins Bucs game when Gradkowksi was starting (rookie year), dude looked very unimpressive.

I'll just say now - if Campbell leads us to a win against Pittsburgh, I'll be sold, at least for a while. But I'll still be keeping the sig - Grad's still one of my favorite players.
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:21 AM    (permalink
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It's a bit foolish to just talk of tools in comparing the two guys. Just as between Russell and Gradkowski, the biggest difference between Bruce and Campbell is attitude. Jason is many magnitudes more capable than Russell, but he's a laid-back presence who doesn't really get on anyone's ass and doesn't have a very demonstrative personality. A QB with Bruce's personality on the field, no matter how capable a team is (even if they're many times more capable and experienced than the Raider's squad) benefits from having that at quarterback.

It doesn't mean Bruce is definitely the better option, but let's please not limit this to the discussion of who can throw the ball longer. It goes so much deeper than that.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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It's a bit foolish to just talk of tools in comparing the two guys. Just as between Russell and Gradkowski, the biggest difference between Bruce and Campbell is attitude. Jason is many magnitudes more capable than Russell, but he's a laid-back presence who doesn't really get on anyone's ass and doesn't have a very demonstrative personality. A QB with Bruce's personality on the field, no matter how capable a team is (even if they're many times more capable and experienced than the Raider's squad) benefits from having that at quarterback.

It doesn't mean Bruce is definitely the better option, but let's please not limit this to the discussion of who can throw the ball longer. It goes so much deeper than that.
I'm not sure if you are talking to me or not, but if you are.....

Each QB has their strengths are weakness. They are BOTH flawed. The question is who should start between the two of them, weaknesses and all, period. What it comes down to is this IMO.

- Jason is more health and has a better health history. He is MORE likely than Grad to finish games.

- The line is much improved, thereby negating Grads chief advantage, that being improvising and buying time in the pocket.

- Jason fits more of what the offense is built for, and that's play action and deep passing.

If we could cross the two and make a super QB with Jason's physical skills, attributes and durability and his presnap defensive reads along with Grad's fire and quick processing, we'd have ourselves a top 5, maybe top 3 QB. But we can't do that, therefore a compromise is what we faced with.
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Old 11-11-2010, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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The offensive line is much improved in the running game, but Oakland is still the 3rd worst team in the NFL at preventing sacks. There are less hits this year, but that sack ranking is exactly the same as it was last year. To insinuate that Campbell hasn't had to improvise (with middling results) in games that weren't against teams with horrible pass rush units (Denver and Seattle) is false.

I was just making sure that this didn't devolve into a discussion of height and arm strength, because Campbell, being the 1st rounder, wins that competition right out. In fact, Kyle Boller pretty handily beats out Bruce as well. The reason Bruce was, up until a few days ago, talked about as the starter even when his injury problems were completely apparent had to do with a lot more than his tools, just as his being replaced by Campbell isn't a referendum on his tools either. It's a reward for Campbell playing so well.
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Old 11-11-2010, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Bruce is a better QB period. More accurate, much better pocket presence, and is willing to take chances.

If only he learned how to slide....
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Old 11-12-2010, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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The offensive line is much improved in the running game, but Oakland is still the 3rd worst team in the NFL at preventing sacks. There are less hits this year, but that sack ranking is exactly the same as it was last year. To insinuate that Campbell hasn't had to improvise (with middling results) in games that weren't against teams with horrible pass rush units (Denver and Seattle) is false.

I was just making sure that this didn't devolve into a discussion of height and arm strength, because Campbell, being the 1st rounder, wins that competition right out. In fact, Kyle Boller pretty handily beats out Bruce as well. The reason Bruce was, up until a few days ago, talked about as the starter even when his injury problems were completely apparent had to do with a lot more than his tools, just as his being replaced by Campbell isn't a referendum on his tools either. It's a reward for Campbell playing so well.
I understand that Jason and Bruce have had to elude the rush, but it's still not the same jailbreak to the QB that is was last year. The differences are we boast the league's second best rush attack which puts us in less third and longs and lately, the passing game has found it's legs. Teams aren't smelling blood like they did last year when they knew they weren't going to pay a price for blitzing. So we don't NEED Grad to improvise just to mount something resembling an offense like we have in the past. From the pocket, he's not better than Campbell. He no good at presnap reads including recognizing the blitz. One team (Houston?) blitzed relentlessly at the end of the game and Bruce couldn't seem to see it coming even though they were showing it.

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Old 11-12-2010, 08:33 AM    (permalink
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Bruce is a better QB period. More accurate, much better pocket presence, and is willing to take chances.

If only he learned how to slide....
Take chances, like the key 1st and 20 completion to Ford that everyone is faulting Campbell for throwing?
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Old 11-12-2010, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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lol. Campbell refuses to throw the football into tight spaces unless he has no other choice. add into that, he routinely underthrows/overthrows WIDE Open Receivers. He cost DHB a long TD in the Seattle game, and the long one DHb had, WAS HORRIBLY UNDERTHROWN. He is terrible, and when Bruce is healthy, he is much much much better.
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Old 11-12-2010, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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From the pocket, Campbell stares down receivers, doesn't feel the rush, and checks it down relentlessly. He is not a good QB.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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I think the most important thing were missing here is the run game.Notice in the Frisco game when Bush got in that collision we weren't able to run the ball after that, and because of that the offense played horrible and that was the reason we lost the game.Notice that whenever were unable to run the ball effectively Campbell plays atrociously bad and yet when we run the ball well he can be pretty good.Thats the big difference between him and Bruce, Bruce can still make plays when the pressure is on him, Campbell has proven he cant.

When we go up against the Steelers in Pittsburgh we had better be able to run the ball.
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Old 11-12-2010, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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That's sorta been my contention. If Campbell is ready to take risks and make things happen, then let him start against Pitt. That said, Pittsburgh has the best run defense in the NFL right now, so if Campbell can't play like Bruce does, he's going to be destroyed.
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Old 11-12-2010, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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I think the most important thing were missing here is the run game.Notice in the Frisco game when Bush got in that collision we weren't able to run the ball after that, and because of that the offense played horrible and that was the reason we lost the game.Notice that whenever were unable to run the ball effectively Campbell plays atrociously bad and yet when we run the ball well he can be pretty good.Thats the big difference between him and Bruce, Bruce can still make plays when the pressure is on him, Campbell has proven he cant.

When we go up against the Steelers in Pittsburgh we had better be able to run the ball.
Even when we run it well, he's still terribly inaccurate.
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Old 11-13-2010, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Black Bolt is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilNixon View Post
lol. Campbell refuses to throw the football into tight spaces unless he has no other choice. add into that, he routinely underthrows/overthrows WIDE Open Receivers. He cost DHB a long TD in the Seattle game, and the long one DHb had, WAS HORRIBLY UNDERTHROWN. He is terrible, and when Bruce is healthy, he is much much much better.
LOL, so now you are qualifying your statement before you move on to the next criticism of Campbell as if Bruise Gradkowski has been perfect. Funny how the team supposedly only rallys around Bruise, but the team has been rallying for the past 3 games in which Bruise hasn't taken a snap.
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