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Old 11-26-2010, 08:48 PM    (permalink
Halsey
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The whole blow up or build up thing is a lot of grey area. Every team in the NFL should try to have a quality coach, quality starting QB, quality lines, etc. Whatever you want to call it, teams need those things and should try to get them if they don't already have them.
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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What are Josh McDaniels' credentials, exactly, anyway? The fact that he was on the staff during the Patriots 2007 season?

Guess who has the #1 offense in the NFL this year? A team called the Patriots. Guess who's not on the Patriots staff right now?

Maybe Boy Genius McDaniels had less to do with the past success of the Patriots offense than um, some guy named Brady and some guy named Belichick?
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
no, he blew it up because he's an egotistical piece of ****, just like every other assistant who's come out of new england. they all want to prove it was really them who was smart, and not just belichick.
OMG! An offensive coordinator takes over a team that was run by an offensive coach with a completely different philosophy on offense, in the lockerroom, and on defense? And he blew everything up to make it how he wants it? Inconceivable!

(I'll just reiterate that I though McDaniels to the Broncos was a bad move. McDaniels should have gone to Detroit with Spags or Schwartz going to Denver. Both teams would be better off right now.)

It's not being "an egotistical piece of ****", it's McDaniels doing what he thinks he has to do in order to build a team that will win in the long-term.

He completely blew up a solid team, brought in character guys to build a lockerroom, made a couple questionable moves on draft day, and ended up with the same record as the year before him. I think that's pretty positive. They're likely to finish with 6 or 7 wins this year, and have a lot to look forward to.

They're having a down year in 2010 because the defense regressed with Nolan gone and with all the injuries that have built up. McDaniels chose to gamble on the defense and try to get the offense set up for long-term success this past off-season (I thought he did well in that regard). He'll get to the defense this coming off-season.

The main thing for me is that it's stupid for you to hate on McDaniels because he's just doing what he was hired to do. They should have gone with Schwartz or Spags, but they've got McDaniels. You should do more embracing and less hating on the guy.
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
The whole blow up or build up thing is a lot of grey area. Every team in the NFL should try to have a quality coach, quality starting QB, quality lines, etc. Whatever you want to call it, teams need those things and should try to get them if they don't already have them.
This is kind of how I feel. I mean, I want a lot of things in Cincinnati to change, but if blowing it up means there will be collateral damage to that defense (and it's coordinator Zimmer) then I don't want it blown up.

Start by not resigning Marvin, and then getting rid of Palmer. From there you build upon your weaker areas (pass rush & offensive line in this case) just like any other team.

There's no right answer here obviously, but I'm not sure "blow it up" is the right term here :)
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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I am surprised that most people seem to think that the 49ers should just start over. IIRC, most people on this board thought before the season that they were only a great QB away from being a great team. What happened?
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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You still don't get it. Yes, the Broncos made a mistake by going with McDaniels over one of the defensive options. That's not on McDaniels, he didn't hire himself. If you thought that he was coming in to run Shanahan's offense, you have mental illnesses beyond healing. So yeah, he blew up a perfectly good offense because it wasn't going to work for him. Every coach does this.

You're overreacting, and acting as if they can just fire McDaniels and instantly be better. Which just isn't the case. They're not going to get someone better than McDaniels because he's really good. They need to fix up the defense now that the offense is mostly where Josh wants it, and they'll be on their way to contending again.

Bring in any coach now, and they'll blow it all up again because the roster is taylor-made for McDaniels' offense, which no one else can run.
Every coach blows up an offense with a 25-year old PBer at QB?
Every coach blows up an offense with a 25-year old top 10 WR?
Every coach blows up an offense with a 2nd year receiver that caught >90 balls in his rookie year?
Every coach blows up an offense that was 2nd in yards per game?

And what evidence is there that McD is any good. There is NONE. I don't care if he's filled the locker room with high character guys, if they aren't fit to hold the ******* jock of the bad character guys they replaced. Just look at the guys he's gotten rid of.

Cutler. Pretty much self-explanatory. He's got his ups and downs, but I guarantee you that if the defense shows up just a little, he'll give you a chance to win the game. Replaced by Orton, who is a solid QB and good enough, but he won't take this team anywhere, and this team won't take him anywhere.

Marshall. One of the best WRs in the game coming off of a career year. And McD gets rid of him after spending the entire season alienating him. Njx and others do correctly say that Marshall had talked about leaving Denver years ago, but based on what I saw when we were winning, I find it hard to believe he'd have felt that way if he were on a team with a competent coach that didn't go 2-8 in the last 10 games.

Peyton Hillis. We're stuck with Knowshon and knowbody else.

Tony Scheffler. Who, by the way, as Detroit's 2nd TE, is MORE PRODUCTIVE THAN ALL 3 TES ON THE ROSTER COMBINED.

The dude is a terrible coach. He loses the locker room constantly, and he's taken this team from bad but promising to worse and futureless. He deserves to be fired. There is ZERO evidence that he's anything but incompetent besides his last draft that may have been kind of okay.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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Every coach blows up an offense with a 25-year old PBer at QB?
Every coach blows up an offense with a 25-year old top 10 WR?
Every coach blows up an offense with a 2nd year receiver that caught >90 balls in his rookie year?
Every coach blows up an offense that was 2nd in yards per game?
Don't forget a pretty good pass catching TE too.....now what do you have there? Blocking TEs? I hate blocking TEs....the concept infuriates me......

That offense was set up to be something special. Big armed franchise QB just coming into his own, true #1 possession WR in Marshall, big play threat in Royal....franchise LT.

All torn apart. The only reasonable thing I can even think of is that ownership thought that McDaniels would take that offense to the next level, but then he came in and stabbed backs and burned bridges and misused the few guys he had left....drafts a RB high in the first round and misuses him too when he's healthy...

A defensive minded coach who would have left that offense be would have been such a better move.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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Other teams that need a blowup: Jags, Skins, Bears. That's right. I say that two first place teams need to be blown up.
So what do you not like about what the Jags have done the last 2 years since they started rebuilding? I think Gene Smith has done a great job.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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Good thread.

The Broncos are fricking mysterious, or quite puzzling.
They came out on fire last year going what, 6-0? They were for real.
But then they weren't. And aren't.

Kyle Orton has been very good, which was gamble #1.
Their 3-4 transition has not worked out like the Packers with Dom Capers.
I never thought No-Shon Moreno was anything that special to take that high.
I don't think they need to blow anything up though, just build around.

On the Vikings, about 5 of my best 8 friends are die-hard Vikings fans, and the smartest and most loyal one thinks they need to trade Jared Allen this off-season.
What would he fetch in a trade? Any guesses?
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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I am surprised that most people seem to think that the 49ers should just start over. IIRC, most people on this board thought before the season that they were only a great QB away from being a great team. What happened?
They started playing.
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Old 11-27-2010, 01:05 AM    (permalink
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Knowshon still reminds me of Tiki Barber. And so I think he's needed some time to adjust more than other runners because he's less of a simple instincts runner and is more of a thinker out there who exceled because of how he adjusted his speed, shifted his weight and where he chose to run. If he does adjust to doing those things against bigger, faster and smarter NFL defenders like I think he can, that's a back worthy of a first rounder, not a top 11 pick, but if he starts to excel he's the type of guy who'll be a positive force in the lockerroom as well, which is what I think sold an ill prepared McDaniels.

Again I do agree that McDaniels was clearly a terrible fit for their roster and that's something they should've figured out in the interview process and I don't agree with the whole Cutler-Cassel thing which is the cause of the Marshall trade, the Hillis trade and the Scheffler trade. That said I do think he can be a successful coach and has shown progress, at least at drafting, and he's a smart guy plus they already let him tear that team a part, if you think he can be a success might as well let him finish building this team by boosting that defense this offseason.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

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Old 11-27-2010, 01:29 AM    (permalink
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I really think people are under-rating the potential the broncos have on O. Clady is a great start on the OL, playing next to him would help Beadles become the LG he can develop into. Walton's a rookie C who's not insanely talented enough to be a first rounder, I do however think he's got plenty of room for growth and will become a good C. Kuper can be a good RG if Harris gets back to his best and the leftside develops/gets healthy. That's an OL that could be very good in 2 years. With a smart and mobile OL that's opening good holes I think Knowshon could be a very good and dependable runner, sure adding a home run hitter to spell him or a bulldozer to spell him would be nice, but that's a need that you can address in the midrounds of most drafts.

I'm a big fan of Thomas', I love his story and he's a really talented kid with just as much potential as Dez. Maybe this is my draftnik nerdiness talking, but I believe Bey Bey will become an excellent #1, although admittedly it may take the 3 years that we used to give WRs to make an impact.

That leaves QB. Orton's done more than enough to hold the fort for now and I'm also a Tebow believer. I think they can be patient with him, and if they are I'm not going to bet against Timmy becoming successful. He may not become Steve Young 2.0, but I do believe that he'll become a dangerous Q who with Bey Bey, Knowshon, Royal and that OL form a a very hard working and smart, tebow excluded, core that'll help them hit on more of their prospects moving forward.

That's why I think they should give McDaniels one more year, because I think he's put together an offense that can become very dangerous and effective in a couple of years once all of their rookies and young players have developed. If they can restock the defense in the mean time and turn that into a strength, as I've mentioned they have a good start with Ayers and Doom, which isn't impossible with the veteran leaders they have to teach the youngins right now.

Now this may all be tainted by the fact I haven't seen too much of this years failure and I'm too much of a draftnik homer, but that's my guess as to the state and future of the broncos.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-27-2010, 02:24 AM    (permalink
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I really think people are under-rating the potential the broncos have on O.
I agree with you here. The potential is in place for a solid offense. You can already see flashes of it.

Quote:
I'm a big fan of Thomas', I love his story and he's a really talented kid with just as much potential as Dez. Maybe this is my draftnik nerdiness talking, but I believe Bey Bey will become an excellent #1, although admittedly it may take the 3 years that we used to give WRs to make an impact.
The big knock against him right now is that he seems to get injured every time he hits the ground... which is compounded by the fact that McD had him back there returning kicks. Great talent, no question, but we'll have to see if he can hold up in the NFL.

Quote:
That leaves QB. Orton's done more than enough to hold the fort for now and I'm also a Tebow believer.
Orton is okay when things are going well, but you can't count on him to make plays in the face of adversity. I have hope for Tebow, but we really don't know where he is in terms of development... and McD is not going to start him willingly.

Quote:
That's why I think they should give McDaniels one more year, because I think he's put together an offense that can become very dangerous and effective in a couple of years once all of their rookies and young players have developed. If they can restock the defense in the mean time and turn that into a strength, as I've mentioned they have a good start with Ayers and Doom, which isn't impossible with the veteran leaders they have to teach the youngins right now.
Yes, McD can build an offense. Defense? That's not clear, and since he apparently is unwilling to work with a veteran DC (or OC for that fact), we're left with a relatively inexperienced staff supporting our relatively inexperienced HC.

In terms of defensive players, we apparently have no veteran leaders. Champ hasn't been the same since that contract got pulled off the table, and Dawkins doesn't seem to be contributing much on or off the field anymore. Things are really a mess and there doesn't seem to be much will on the part of the players to fight through the adversity.

I am very uneasy with the thought of McD heading into the offseason with his job security hanging by a thread (which it will be if he isn't fired at the end of this season). I don't trust him to draft wisely, nor do I trust him to make changes to the coaching staff to bring in more established veterans who could compensate for his shortcomings. IMO, the best thing that could happen to McD would probably be for an experienced GM to come in and put clear limits on his role much like what happened to Mangini in Cleveland. He's just way over his head right now.
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Old 11-27-2010, 03:41 AM    (permalink
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Cowboys - BLOW UP (Have nice pieces but need serious help on OL/DB/DL)
Broncos - BLOW UP (the whole defense + some offense)
49ers - BLOW UP (starts at QB, secondary could use help)
Vikings - BUILD UP (some great pieces in place, need to find a QB)
Cardinals - BLOW UP (I was 50/50 but this team cant run or pass, OL/QB help)
Bengals - BUILD UP (cut losses in T.O. and Chad, replace WRs & coaches)
Bills - BUILD UP (They've already been blown up. Now its just putting pieces together)
Panthers - BLOW UP (Need to add a ton & clean house coaching)
Lions - BUILD UP (see Bills)
Browns - BUILD UP (see Bills & Lions)

I should explain that I think the Bengals coaches should be gone, but I think most of the personnel is still in place for Cincy to have a bounce-back year if they can eliminate their WR woes, get more consistency out of their OL. A solid draft & a wise decision in FA could get the team back into playoff contention.
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Old 11-27-2010, 03:44 AM    (permalink
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This is going to be a long post, so brace for it. Two parts to it though. First, I'm doing the bottom 10 teams according to this (updated after Thursday):
http://espn.go.com/nfl/standings/_/group/1/order/false

1. Carolina - Build Up
It's Build Up mainly because there's nothing to Blow Up. They've got Steve Smith, Jonathan Stewart, DeAngelo WIlliams, and then virtually nothing. Get a franchise QB, improve the trenches, and get a good young WR and call it a day this off-season.

2. Detroit - Build Up
Probably my #1 Build Up team right now. Franchise quarterback in Stafford, elite WR in Johnson, very promising (and apparently injury-prone) RB in Best, and an up and coming TE in Pettigrew. I still believe the Lions made a mistake in passing on Michael Oher for Brandon Pettigrew, but hey, all teams screw up. On defense, they have less long-term answers, but are still good. Suh is a monster, the rest of the d-line is pretty good, LB corps is average, and DB is kind of messy. Delmas has kinda regressed, and just when it appeared Smith would turn his career around, the Patriots happened. In any case, the Lions will very likely take Peterson, which will vastly improve the DB group, and should then improve the O-line. It might sound silly to you, but I firmly believe the Lions are one of those teams that can go from a top 5 pick to a playoff team in consecutive seasons. Not contenders, but a playoff team nonetheless. They just need a couple players here and there and for Stafford to stop injuring his arm.

3. Cincinnati - Blow Up
For starters, fire Lewis. They've got a QB that's starting based off of past accolades, two prima donna WR's on the wrong side of 30 (even though TO has been a beast this year). Basically the only things they've got going offensively are Jordan Shipley, Jermaine Gresham, and a couple o-line guys. Defensively, they're actually in pretty good shape, definitely could use some upgrades, but it's the offense that's completely holding them back. Rivers, Maualuga, Peko, Hall and Joseph, Atkins, Michael Johnson, all these are guys I can see in a Bengals uniform for a while. But on the offense, they've got to start anew. Get a QB, get him weapons, get him an oline, and get him a running game. It might take a while, but that's what needs to happen.

4. Buffalo - Build Up
See: Carolina. Good players here and there, need help everywhere.

5. Dallas - Build Up
I think many people are looking over the Cowboys right now. They don't really as much help as some people believe. With a healthy Romo, they just need to upgrade the O-line and DB, as well as have a mean training camp, and they're ready to go. Witten, Austin, Bryant, and Williams form a formidable receiving corps, Felix and Tashard are a good pair of RB's, Ware is still a monster, and Jenkins is still improving. Give them an Amukamara or a Peterson, with a Carimi or Cannon or Pouncey later on, and this could be a playoff team again.

6. Denver - Blow Up
I am not a fan of the McDaniels era. At all. This might have more to do with the fact that I don't really watch the Broncos much, but I just feel this is a team without an identity. Dunno why. Orton is a good journeyman QB, but he won't take you to the playoffs and win. Moreno has been average, the O-line has been sub-par, the defense has regressed with Nolan's departure, Dumervil's injury has really hurt them, Ayers has been a disappointment, and the recent trades have been downright disastrous for Denver. Save the rookie WR's, Clady, Dumervil, Tebow, and a couple others, fire McDaniels, and start again.

7. San Francisco - Build Up
This is another team that I feel can be in the playoffs in little to no time. Fire Singletary and get a franchise QB, and all of a sudden they don't look very bad, at all. Elite TE, good receivers in Crabtree and Morgan, great RB in Gore, young and talented offensive line (sans Rachal), good defensive players, even if old, in Smith, Franklin, and others. Willis is still an animal. Could use help at DB too. Again, a good QB and a good CB and this could be a good team next year.

8. Cleveland - Build Up
Basically Carolina and Buffalo, but in a more advanced stage.

9. Arizona - Blow Up
They've got Larry Fitzgerald, Darnell Dockett, DRC, Wilson, Calais Campbell and...hyphen? Beanie Wells? Dan Williams? Just salvage those guys, the rookies and other young promising ones, and get rid of the old LB's and co. Get a new QB, fix the oline once and for all, and get LB's. Could be a lengthier process than that of other teams on here.

10. Minnesota - Blow Up
Some people say Build Up, I just can't see it. Outside of AP, Greenway, Harvin, Rice, and maybe Loadholt, everyone would be out if it were up to me. The locker room appears to be in shambles, players have quit on the team, there's animosity between players and coaches, players and players, and for a while, players and caterers. It's just a messy situation. So again, salvage the elite players, keep the promising young ones, and get new players. Fortunately for the Vikings, they've got an advantage over other teams that need to rebuild. They've got guys that other teams covet. Jared Allen, Kevin Williams, Antoine Winfield, these are guys that other teams would definitely be interested in acquiring (maybe Winfield not so much). Take advantage of that and get high draft picks. Rebuild the offense around AP and slowly but surely revamp the defense. The team definitely has talent right now, but I just think there's something wrong with their attitude and chemistry, and that usually takes longer to fix.

So that's my two cents on those teams.

Now, regarding McDaniels, the reason I believe he's done a ****** job is because he came in, cleaned house, and then built a team that has sucked it up, all while he goes around believing he's a ******* messiah and a genius (or at least that's what I feel when I see him). A good coach doesn't build a team with "his" guys, he builds a team with good guys, no matter who brought them in, and wins. I'd much rather hear comments like "Well, Tomlin did win a Superbowl, but the majority of those guys were Cowher's guys," to "Well, the Broncos flat out suck, but at least they're McDaniels' guys." Just because you inherited a team with players that another coach brought in doesn't mean you have to get rid of them and bring in new guys to demonstrate you're a good coach. Example: Mike Tomlin. I talk about him because he's the coach I feel I know best, and also because it does apply to the situation we're discussing.

When Tomlin came in, he didn't fire LeBeau, like some speculated he'd do. He didn't switch the defense to a Tampa 2, like many (including myself, at one point) thought he'd do. He didn't bring in "his" guys, like many of these coaches have done, and more importantly, he didn't try to fix that which wasn't broken in the first place. Result? Superbowl in his second year, elite defense in 08, and, for the most part, a smooth transition from Cowher's players to his guys. Nothing seemed forced, and more importantly, he usually makes the needed changes during off-seasons. He fired our O-line coach and Kugler seems to be doing a better job. Our ST's haven't looked this good in a while, after firing our old ST coach too. Sadly, he didn't fire Bruce Arians. He tried to find a replacement for center Jeff Hartings when he retired, and brought in Sean Mahan. It was an utter failure of an experiment, and Tomlin recognized it, and sent Mahan packing after one year. He brought in Justin Hartwig, and while he was better than Mahan, he constantly graded out (statistically) as one of the worst (and in a couple categories as THE worst) center in the league. After two years of him, Tomlin drafts Pouncey in the first round and he's been amazing. I'm pretty sure than given the chance, we'd have taken Mack in 09, but he never got to us. Tomlin is gradually changing the team into his own team, but it doesn't seem forced, and it's worked pretty well. Timmons, Woodley, Mendenhall, Wallace, Pouncey, are all starters and are his players. Add in some key depth guys like Keyaron Fox and some young guys like Emmanuel Sanders and Jason Worilds, and it looks pretty good.

McDaniels, on the other hand, came in wanting to bring in his QB while already having a pretty good QB (back then) in Cutler. He tore up the very successful offense the Broncos had and implemented one that is still a work in progress. Had he not ****** things up, the offense could be much more dangerous right now. McDaniels' system is very QB friendly. It made Cassell look good and it's making Orton look good, so one can only imagine how good it could have made Cutler look. Top it off with Brandon Marshall catching the ball and Peyton Hillis running it, and that could have been one very, very dangerous offense. But it never happened. The Moreno pick over Orakpo was mind-boggling as well, and this isn't hindsight analysis at all. Denver needed a pass-rusher and one of the best ones in the draft fell into their laps and they let him slide. Dumervil and Orakpo would be up there as one of the best pair of 3-4 OLB in the league. But again, it never happened. Moreno happened, and he's been pretty mediocre. He can still improve, yes, but Orakpo is a beast while Moreno... :S.

My point is that when McDaniels inherited the Denver team, he had to improve the defense and fine tune the offense. Overall, the team was in above-average shape. He tried to fix something that wasn't broken, and it all backfired on him.
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Old 11-27-2010, 04:10 AM    (permalink
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Can anyone really give a strong example of a team that actually "blew up"? Even on teams with a severe lack in talent, everyone is going to build on what they have.
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:16 AM    (permalink
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Here's my thoughts:

Carolina-Blow Up-In the off season they will lose DeAngelo Williams and should trade Steve Smith. Williams they can let go because Stewart is more than ready to be the #1 guy at RB. Smith is a completely different story though. I always liked him. I thought pound for pound he was the toughest and best WR in the NFL a few years ago. However after a punch-up, multiple outbursts against QBs on the sideline and the fact that he came out and said he didn't want to be the main WR on the team and they should get another star has just put me completely off him. He is still a fantastic WR though and should get probably a third round pick in return. They should also get a 3rd round comp pick for Williams. For a team with no second rounder, three thirds could help tremendously. Realistically, except for Stewart, a few of the offensive line, Beason, Gamble etc they have no players who they can confidently build around. It could be a long few years in Carolina but it would be right for whoever the new coach is to come in and clean house right away.

Detroit-Build Up-In the last three or four years no team has done a better job of adding cornerstones to their team. If he can stay healthy they have a tremendous young franchise QB. They have a soon to be elite WR. They have a game breaking RB. They have two good young TEs. They have a dominant DT surrounded by hard working veterans on the defensive line. But then they have their back seven and offensive line. These two things are killing them. However they are a free agency and draft away from being more than competitive. I think Alphonso Smith will actually be the person the Lions send up with Patrick Peterson or Prince Amukamara's name on the card during the draft. Then if they can reinforce the offensive line in the second they could be in business. This is the shining example of how badly a team can be run for years and how to turn it around. There are no quick fixes, but it can be achieved.

Cincinnati-Blow Up/Build Up-Fire the coach. Get rid of the QB. Get rid of the diva WRs. ***** slap Andre Smith. Promote the defensive coordinator to head coach. Pretty much wipe the current offense clean and start afresh with Zimmer as head coach. Gresham, Shipley, Caldwell etc are guys to build an offense around, but that will not happen with the T-Ocho show in town. If they can get Luck, Locker or Mallett in the draft they should take whichever they choose. Let the rookie QB grow with the young receiving corps and hope Benson gets back to last year's form. On defense it is very much a continuous building job. A true pass rushing threat and a deep playmaking safety makes this unit elite, Im convinced of it. The safety they can get in the second round of the draft. The DE, they can either take Bowers or Quinn in the draft or hope Johnson or Dunlap make the next progression for them.

Buffalo-Blow Up-Honestly what have they got to build around? They finally have another WR to go with Lee Evans. Ok but what else. Their defense is horrendous. Blow it up. Their offensive line is almost non-existent. They need a QB. I would say build it up but what are they building around?

Dallas-Build Up-Now that Wade Phillips is gone and they're actually playing hard they look like the team they should have been all along. They can throw it, they can run it, they can stop the run and they can rush the passer better than most. Get a top quality DB and some O-line help and we'll be back getting the Cowboys for the Superbowl crap rammed down our throats next year.

Denver-Blow Up-Who is a must-keep on this roster? I can think of nobody. Kyle Orton has played nicely but is replaceable. Ryan Clady has regressed from his first two years. Brandon Lloyd has been a nice surprise this year but he is not a franchise saver. On defense outside of Dumervil and Champ who is getting on, is there anyone even worth speaking of? Oh and their coach is a self-absorbed, arrogant "genius".

San Francisco-Build Up-This team is either a QB or decent play calling away from being competitive. Im not sure and depending on who you talk to it could be either or both. They have a powerful offensive line, terrific RB, elite TE and fantastic young WR but can do nothing offensively??? That doesn't sound right. Defensively they have some real good pieces and just need another player or two, like a stud OLB and a CB to be good.

Cleveland-Build Up-If Colt McCoy had bombed and the team hadn't been playing hard for Mangini I would have said blow it up. But he has really surprised and carried this team on his back. They may have found their QB and their RB and IMO have two of the top 10 offensive linemen in the NFL. However they need some playmakers at the WR position. If AJ Green or Julio Jones are available in the draft they have to take them. Defensively they have a good secondary and an ok defensive line. Adding a pass rusher or two would really help this unit.

Arizona-Blow Up-Has any team lost as much top level talent in one year? Kurt Warner, Anquan Boldin, Karlos Dansby, Antrel Rolle. Offensively the only players worth noting are Fitz and Breaston and Fitz had some worrying comments a few weeks ago about tasting success before and not liking being back down the bottom. Defensively, Dockett is awesome and DRC and Wilson give them a nice duo in the secondary but there is nothing else. They need a QB, they need offensive line help in the worst way, they could use a pass catching TE, they need pass rushers, LBers, another CB, another S. Blow it all up. Wis could be close to on his way out.

Minnesota-I don't know!!!-Arguements could be made to blow it up and build around Peterson. But Rice, Harvin, Shiancoe, Loadholt etc are all young good players on offense. Defensively they are having a down year. However Jared Allen and Kevin Williams will never have worse years. Their secondary is very poor outside Winfield IMO but not enough to blow the whole thing up. Hopefully they start playing hard for Frazier now because obviously Chilly wasn't good for this team. Oh and get rid of Favre once and for all!!!
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
Can anyone really give a strong example of a team that actually "blew up"? Even on teams with a severe lack in talent, everyone is going to build on what they have.
The Vikings a couple years ago, maybe? Traded Moss, cut Culpepper, did other moves, and then had to rebuild. They drafted Troy Williamson (fail), Kevin Williams, Chad Greenway, Adrian Peterson, Percy Harvin, Sidney Riceamong others, and acquired Steve Hutchinson, Pat Williams, Visanthe Shiancoe, Jared Allen, Brett Favre, and they had a good year last year.
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mr. Goosemahn View Post
The Vikings a couple years ago, maybe? Traded Moss, cut Culpepper, did other moves, and then had to rebuild. They drafted Troy Williamson (fail), Kevin Williams, Chad Greenway, Adrian Peterson, Percy Harvin, Sidney Riceamong others, and acquired Steve Hutchinson, Pat Williams, Visanthe Shiancoe, Jared Allen, Brett Favre, and they had a good year last year.
KC as well, but it was necessitated by a ridiculously old roster.
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
Can anyone really give a strong example of a team that actually "blew up"? Even on teams with a severe lack in talent, everyone is going to build on what they have.
49ers 2003-2006

Salary Cap Hell and multiple coaching changes lead to the departures of...

QB - Jeff Garcia
RB - Garrison Hearst
RB - Kevan Barlow
FB - Fred Beasley
WR - Terrell Owens
WR - Brandon Lloyd
LT - Derrick Deese
DE - Andre Carter
LB - Julian Peterson


Only OT Kwame Harris and DT Bryant Young were regular starters in both 2003 and 2006 (2/24)

The 2004 and 2005 49ers were two of the least talented 53-man rosters in modern history.
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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Some of you have said that the Bengals should blow up and get rid of their QB/WRs/coaching staff. I completely buy Marvin Lewis & Bob Bratkowski out the door. They don't have to fire Marvin, his contract is up, they just don't have to re-sign him. Bratkowski needs to be fired. T.O. is a free agent and more than likely won't be back. The team has the option to retain Chad, but for 6 million I doubt they'd really want to. Neither receiver is earning their salary this year.

Now, what I question is people that think they should blow up the Quarterback position. Palmer is under contract through the next couple years. Does anyone truly believe that he won't be the starting Quarterback for the Bengals next season? I've watched every game this season and while Palmer hasn't been very good, he's gotten hung out to dry by his OL and receiving core. How could a receiving unit with so much talent be so damn awful? The unit is a joke and upon replacing them we can really see how much Palmer has left.

Basically, the bottom-line is, I'm sure it sounds nice for the Bengals to replace their QB/WR/S/DE/coaching but it's not going to happen. Some of those pieces are going to stay in place and the team will more than likely strive for a bounce-back year next season. I can't see the franchise letting Carson go, nor do I see them drafting a replacement in the Top 5. Unless John Harbaugh becomes our new coach and we wind up drafting 1st Overall, I'd say Palmer's job is safe next year... And that's just the way it is, like it or not.

Also, one of the biggest fallacies out there is that our LBs are good. I'm sorry, but none of those guys are impact players. Keith Rivers is average, Rey Maualuga might be a bit below average, and Dhani Jones is still probably our best LB. Rey has yet to become a playmaker at the NFL level, he struggles in space and has to be taken off the field in passing situations. Rivers has just not developed into anything more than a decent starter.
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Old 11-29-2010, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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Vikings are probably more build up than blow up.

We need a QB, badly.

We need an OL more. I would say that Hutch and maybe Loadholt and Sullivan are really NFL starter worthy. McKinnie is worthless as a LT because he literally can't pass block anyone anymore. Herrera is a great depth guy and has been better than expected but still isn't a guy you want as a long term starter. Considering Hutch's age you could make a case that we need 5 new OL. WR is fine if we keep Rice and he is healthy and ditto Harvin. RB we are very set with AP and Gerhart looked solid in his first real game time. I'd like to see Harvin used a bit as a 3rd down back like he was at Florida.

Defense is the bigger worry. Henderson is just about done. Greenway is a stud. KWill is a stud that has had a bad year. PWill is just about done. Allen has had a really poor year, not a huge fan of selling him now, would be the ultimate sell low move.

I'd like to see Winfield moved to safety. He has been getting beaten consistently at CB this year and is still close to the best tackler on the team. Would be worth a shot at the least because he is just about done at CB and we have literally nothing at safety. Basically the defense is a mess. Playcalling and a couple of OL would go a long way to fixing the offense.

I say we are more build up because we do have some excellent young pieces. I actually wouldn't mind Childress in some kind of GM role as he has done a great job with getting us some talent, he just is worthless as a playcaller and seems to have really alienated people.
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