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Old 03-24-2007, 09:25 AM    (permalink
Schenkel23
 
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I think the NFL is going overboard here in trying to fix their image. As many have already said, wait until he gets convicted of something.
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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"Since then, Jones has become the poster child for players gone wild. His rap sheet features a litany of arrests, outbursts and a strong implication that he frequently uses marijuana.

Jones topped all of that in February.

He was involved in an incident that resulted in the shooting of three people in Las Vegas after the NBA All-Star Game. Exactly what happened leading up to the shootings is unclear, but there were various accounts and reports of Jones being robbed; Jones hitting a stripper; and a member of his entourage firing a gun in the strip club where the madness took place, leaving one of the victims paralyzed.

In the aftermath, it has been uncovered that Jones was involved in two other incidents that the Titans and the league were unaware of and, according to police surveillance recordings, he's an acquaintance of a known drug dealer."

O Ya he is a Saint come on they have to play hard ball with him to open his eyes and the eyes of all the other troubled players in the NFL. The players backing the NFL on this shows a lot it has to stop bad players are giving good players a bad name.
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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You can't suspend a player for making himself look stupid, which is all Jones has done so far. That's absolutely ridiculous. It means the media would play a big role in who gets suspended by their coverage of events. It also means that players could become targets to provoke off the field to try and take them out of games - a little extreme but possible.

If Pacman gets suspended at all without a conviction, then the NFL needs to send out equal suspensions to everyone in the past year or so who's made a negative headline - Chris Henry, Ricky Manning, Porter and Levi Jones etc. Oh and they'd need to double whatever they give Jones and give that to Tank Johnson.

Just because Pacman's recent incidents are likely the straws that broke the camel's back doesn't mean all the stuff in recent times can be excused and he can be used as a scapegoat to send a message - if you're going to be strong, you've got to go the whole way and send a real message.

As far as I'm concerned, "suspension without conviction" is opening a whole can of worms that means players could now be at the mercy of the media. Anything Pacman does now days that isn't in the mold of Mr Good Citizen is going to get reported. Is that his fault? Sure, but the media plays a role too, and where do you draw the line? Is being approached by a psycho with a knife at a family bowling alley and making headlines your fault? Is having your house robbed your fault?

The NFL would be wise to refrain from acting the role of the morality police and just let the real police do their job, and act accordingly once the justice system has made its determination. It isn't happening on their field after all. If they think having a squeaky clean image for the league is possible, they're dreaming, wherever there are professional athletes, there will ALWAYS be the occasional incident - it's a world wide phenomenon. Unfortunately, every so often you're going to get players that take the "occasional incident" to the extreme, but there's just no way a direct fair line can be drawn between when enough is enough.
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Schenkel23 View Post
I think the NFL is going overboard here in trying to fix their image. As many have already said, wait until he gets convicted of something.
I agree completely. Like that opinion column I quoted says..."football is not a game for the well-adjusted." It's a sport that welcomes and encourages aggressiveness and violence, and, for many players, that's a part of their personalities. You're going to have players who break the law. So let the judicial system deal with it.
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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You can't suspend a player for making himself look stupid, which is all Jones has done so far.
That is not all he is done he has made the whole NFL look stupid he has made the Tennessee Titans look stupid for drafting him the guy has no one to blame but his self. If he was a no body everyone on here would want to lock him away and throw away the key but since he plays football he gets a pass and it ain't right.
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:39 AM    (permalink
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That is not all he is done he has made the whole NFL look stupid he has made the Tennessee Titans look stupid for drafting him the guy has no one to blame but his self. If he was a no body everyone on here would want to lock him away and throw away the key but since he plays football he gets a pass and it ain't right.
If he was a nobody, the NFL probably wouldn't want to ban him for a year to make an example of him, since no one would care.
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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I don't think its fair that he gets no punishments for doing alot of stupid things and than all of a sudden gets suspeneded for an entire year. Treat it like steriods, give him a 4 game suspension first.
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:43 AM    (permalink
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Regardless my point remains - if the NFL are going to start handing out suspensions for corrupting their apparently clean image without convictions, they are allowing media exposure and interpretation to dictate when a player violates this policy. It's simply not possible to judge this fairly each time - each and every case would need to be individually judged and that's just a hotbed for favoritism, corruption, and varying opinion from case to case. I think it's opening a can of worms the NFL would regret opening.

Suspending a player because he broke the law is clean, cut and effective. It's a simple black and white process. As far as I care, if law is good enough for me and the general public, it's good enough for NFL players.
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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Why? What crimes has he been convicted of to warrant being suspended for a year?
yeah I dont think the NFL has any real rights to suspend him for a year. He hasnt been convicted of anything. If the Titans should decide to deactive him or something for conduct detrimental to the team then I wouldnt argue b/c even if I wouldnt do the same thing thats their decision to make and they dont have to put him on the field if they dont want. But the NFL cant just go suspending people without the due process of the law going through, it would be unconstitutional.
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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Well obviously SOMEONE does because there are laws regarding weed and alcohol for minors. Now I'm not saying I never did anything because I got into an assload of trouble, but your argument is ridiculous. So it's okay for Chris Henry to keep doing what he is doing, and for thurman to keep doing drugs because hey, it's only drugs and alcohol right? Your argument doesn't hold alot of weight.
Im saying for us as fans...the premise that it taints the image of the whole NFL that some of the guys in it smoke weed is just ridiculous. I mean welcome to the real world. Anyone who thinks all these guys are perfect and none of them use drugs or drink or break the law or have personal problems. Its just a ridiulous premise. And I never said its okay for Henry to keep breaking the law, Im just saying I could personally care less about Henry and the trouble he gets in as long as it is minor stuff like that b/c its not important. And I dont think any other fan should care a whole lot about it either. It shouldnt be headline news when Chris Henry gets pulled over and they find a bag of weed in his car. As far as Im concerned, whatever legal consequences Henry deals with for marijuana charges or whatever is enough penalty in itself. If the NFL also wants to adopt a rule where if you get convicted of a crime you get 1 warning and the next time a 4 game suspension and the next time a 1 year suspension or something along the lines of that, something similar to the drug policy, Id be fine with that too. But the argument we just need to kick all these guys out of the league cuz theyre bad role models and theyre hurting the image of the NFL is just ridiculous. And the idea of suspending people for crimes they didnt get convicted of is flat out unconstitutional.
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Old 03-24-2007, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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And I remind people, don't just approach this as what you think Jones personally deserves - look at it from a standpoint for what it would mean from now on. The new rule would be "If a player or a person with said player is a responsible for conduct detrimental to the NFL's image, he will be handed down a suspension for a length determined by us". See how wide open to interpretation that is? See how easily the judgment panel's opinion of a player could impact the penalty?

And where's the cut off for this new rule if they're going to impose it on a player who did something before it was implemented? the last few weeks? the last year? just Pacman? How is that fair?
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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yeah I dont think the NFL has any real rights to suspend him for a year. He hasnt been convicted of anything. If the Titans should decide to deactive him or something for conduct detrimental to the team then I wouldnt argue b/c even if I wouldnt do the same thing thats their decision to make and they dont have to put him on the field if they dont want. But the NFL cant just go suspending people without the due process of the law going through, it would be unconstitutional.
I do not believe Pacman should be suspended, but your calling of it as "unconstituional" is ridiculous. The NFL is a privately owned business that has the right to regulate how it runs by itself. If what you are suggesting is that the government has the right to interfere with how the NFL is run, then that would be unconstitutional. No law would be broken by the NFL suspended pacman.
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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"Since then, Jones has become the poster child for players gone wild. His rap sheet features a litany of arrests, outbursts and a strong implication that he frequently uses marijuana.

Jones topped all of that in February.

He was involved in an incident that resulted in the shooting of three people in Las Vegas after the NBA All-Star Game. Exactly what happened leading up to the shootings is unclear, but there were various accounts and reports of Jones being robbed; Jones hitting a stripper; and a member of his entourage firing a gun in the strip club where the madness took place, leaving one of the victims paralyzed.

In the aftermath, it has been uncovered that Jones was involved in two other incidents that the Titans and the league were unaware of and, according to police surveillance recordings, he's an acquaintance of a known drug dealer."

O Ya he is a Saint come on they have to play hard ball with him to open his eyes and the eyes of all the other troubled players in the NFL. The players backing the NFL on this shows a lot it has to stop bad players are giving good players a bad name.
The part that I bolded is the only instance you mentioned where Jones himself is even IMPLICATED in doing anything. As far as the shooting - we're still waiting to see how involved he was, or if he was even involved at all.

You also realize that it's not against the law to be the acquaintance of a drug dealer, don't you? When the **** did association become a crime?
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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The NFL is a job not like any other job but a job if you did the stuff that Pac Man has been doing what do you think your boss would do?
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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Well first I'd ask how the hell my boss knew about the incidents as they wouldn't be reported in the paper :)

Oh and you can sure as hell bet there would be a law suit in order if you were fired or suspended without pay for being around trouble but not arrested for it in a normal job too btw.

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Old 03-24-2007, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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I forgot he plays in the NFL which makes him above all of us and the law instead of making him sit a year we should just give him more money for making it in the paper and on the news.
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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Well first I'd ask how the hell my boss knew about the incidents as they wouldn't be reported in the paper :)

Oh and you can sure as hell bet there would be a law suit in order if you were fired or suspended without pay for being around trouble but not arrested for it in a normal job too btw.
And Pacman can't file a lawsuit?
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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And Pacman can't file a lawsuit?
Sure, he could, but this goes back to my "opening a can of worms" thing - this isn't a once off thing, players arguably hurt the NFL's image all the time, why impose a policy if it is open to law suits? Stick to what the law determines is against its rules and act off that. You can't sue against that and I think it's more than enough - as I said, if the law's good enough for me and general society, it should be good enough for the NFL.
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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Sure, he could, but this goes back to my "opening a can of worms" thing - this isn't a once off thing, players arguably hurt the NFL's image all the time, why impose a policy if it is open to law suits? Stick to what the law determines is against its rules and act off that. You can't sue against that and I think it's more than enough - as I said, if the law's good enough for me and general society, it should be good enough for the NFL.
If the league suspends Pacman, Pacman files a lawsuit claiming that the suspension was unfair and unlawful and wins, then the NFL's policy will have been clearly suited as ridiculous and the reputation hit alone will cause them to abandon it. If something like that happens, the NFL will likely lose tons of revenue from some place or another and they would've learned their lesson when it comes to imposing idiotic policies.
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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"Goodell and the league are expected to get the full support of the NFL Players Association, making it difficult for individual players such as Jones to stop such penalties short of a lengthy court battle."

If the NFLPA is backing Goodell that shows how much trouble he has caused I don't see how any one could feel sorry for him.
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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I still think you need to look at this more from what it means for the league than what it means for Pacman. The new policy *has* to use the language "criminal activity" i.e. law breaking activity otherwise it's going to be a mess. There's no need to change what constitutes as conduct open for suspension - they just need to make the suspensions harsher.
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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where does this pull the trigger nonsense come from? If Pac-Man kills someone he's gonna have much bigger problems than the NFL. We have a judicial system for a reason that doesnt allow for people to just get charged with crimes without due course. They dont charge you with a crime for being in a place where a crime occurs. The same thing goes for the NFL. they cant just go suspending players unless they have done their due course and found out if the player actually broke any rules. And honestly, when it comes to the Chris Henrys and Odell Thurmans of the world who smoke weed and buy alcohol for minors and other nonsense like that, you are taking that stuff way too seriously. Honestly, who gives a flying ----- about that kind of stuff. And theyre not getting off b/c theyre athletes, theyre getting off b/c theyre minor crimes, our courts dont usually prosecute people who get caught with a bag of weed on them, they cut em a deal and that goes for everyone. We are seeing Jamal Lewis and Tank Johnson go to jail because their crimes constituted jail time by the letter of the law. I dont know what all this special treatment is all about. Its just the fact that they have so much going for them with them being pro athletes that the fines and classes dont seem like much consequence because their lives are great. I think people like you seem to want athletes to get prosecuted more severely than regular people.
Okay, I don't even know where to start with this...

Honestly, the one major problem with your argument is that, guess what? Smoking marijuana is AGAINST THE LAW! Buying alcohol for minors is AGAINST THE LAW! That's why some people might "give a flying [expletive deleted]"...

Now, don't give me any of this "athletes don't get special treatment"... are you serious!? I mean, look at people like Kobe Bryant or Tank Johnson are charged with crimes and are able to play children's games all over the country. You or I gets charged with any crime like them, we'd be thrown in jail faster than you can say "I'm innocent". And you think that we'd be able to be free to go play football or basketball and earn money? Forget it! If I was ever charged with a crime, I'd be lucky to bond out, and then be able to find a second job. Even if I wasn't found guilty, I'd be lucky to find another employer.

And this is what gets me the most, the fact that you think that people want "athletes to be prosecuted harsher than regular citizens". This is hilarious! If anything, I think that athletes more often than not get just a slap on the wrist than "regular" people. Usually, regular people get more jail time than celebrities.

I'm sick, physically sick, that great people like Tiki Barber, Peyton Manning, and Warrick Dunn (and notice I said people, not just athletes...) are always overshadowed by "gangsta" wannabes like Tank Johnson, Chris Henry, and Pacman Jones.
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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Nice post Saint.
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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And Tank Johnson, Jamal Lewis (both convicted and one currently in jail) haven't tainted the NFL's image at all.....

Funny how the commish will choose a team based in Tennesse to do something like this. He will leave the Chicago team alone......I wonder which has the bigger market...hmm...
.

Best point in the whole thread. If they're going to suspend Pacman they should suspend the walking gun locker Tank Johnson.
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Old 03-24-2007, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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The NFL is a job not like any other job but a job if you did the stuff that Pac Man has been doing what do you think your boss would do?
He wouldn't care unless it was directly affecting my work. In Pacman's case its hard to say that him being associated with people causing trouble(which is all he has done so far) is affecting his work performance, especially given he just had the best season of his career.

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Originally Posted by Saints Dome Patrol View Post
Okay, I don't even know where to start with this...

Honestly, the one major problem with your argument is that, guess what? Smoking marijuana is AGAINST THE LAW! Buying alcohol for minors is AGAINST THE LAW! That's why some people might "give a flying [expletive deleted]"...

Now, don't give me any of this "athletes don't get special treatment"... are you serious!? I mean, look at people like Kobe Bryant or Tank Johnson are charged with crimes and are able to play children's games all over the country. You or I gets charged with any crime like them, we'd be thrown in jail faster than you can say "I'm innocent". And you think that we'd be able to be free to go play football or basketball and earn money? Forget it! If I was ever charged with a crime, I'd be lucky to bond out, and then be able to find a second job. Even if I wasn't found guilty, I'd be lucky to find another employer.

And this is what gets me the most, the fact that you think that people want "athletes to be prosecuted harsher than regular citizens". This is hilarious! If anything, I think that athletes more often than not get just a slap on the wrist than "regular" people. Usually, regular people get more jail time than celebrities.

I'm sick, physically sick, that great people like Tiki Barber, Peyton Manning, and Warrick Dunn (and notice I said people, not just athletes...) are always overshadowed by "gangsta" wannabes like Tank Johnson, Chris Henry, and Pacman Jones.
You do realize that the reason they get treated "lightly" is because they hire better lawyers. You hire a lawyer of the quality that represent pro athletes and you get the same treatment as they do, without the media dragging your name through the mud. It's money, not who they are, that puts them somewhat above the law.

The NFL is totally out of line here. If they are giving a years suspension for association, then they have to be consistent and therefore being found guilty must carry at least twice the suspension. In otherwords half of the Bengals should be suspended for at least 2 seasons and a good proportion of several other teams should also get the boot.

On top of that, does the severity of the crime you are associated with determine the length of your suspension. Should Ray Lewis be getting a life suspension for being associated with a murder. Does Culpepper get the same for being associated with sexual assault? It is a very dangerous precedent to be able to suspend a player for being associated with someone, in fact its stupid. Should you suspend an owner if it can be proven that he has ever affiliated with anyone that is a shady character, and nearly every owner has.

If Pacman is guilty, fair enough, but until so, he should be untouchable by the league. If they want to implement a guilty by association policy, then you had better apply it to everyone and you create an even stupider scenario. Vince Young has associated with Pacman, who by the NFL's own judgement becomes shady by association. Are they going to suspend the whole league given that?
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