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View Poll Results: Is Channing Frye the most influential NBA PLAYER EVER?
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Lebron has always been a hack, i don't know why more people didn't hate him before.
Eh, he tends to be a dominant, "godly" player for the first 47:30 or so of the game, and he was single handedly carrying an otherwise godawful, irrelevant team in Cleveland to being a championship contender.

But he's got no clutch and looked like a total tool with the whole "decision" bull ****.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Eh, he tends to be a dominant, "godly" player for the first 47:30 or so of the game, and he was single handedly carrying an otherwise godawful, irrelevant team in Cleveland to being a championship contender.

But he's got no clutch and looked like a total tool with the whole "decision" bull ****.
That's not what i meant, he has always been an amazing player that isn't very clutch, but his whole persona was just complete ********. It was so forced, and fake.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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That's not what i meant, he has always been an amazing player that isn't very clutch, but his whole persona was just complete ********. It was so forced, and fake.
I know what you meant, I was just saying why there were a lot of people who liked him in Cleveland.

And his persona is killing his team. For most of the season I just assumed this year would be a growing year for the Heat and they'd need to use the offseason to creatively get some role players. But even if they do that, they aren't winning until they get the personality situation figured out. LeBron CAN NOT hit the last second shots. They need to stop giving him those, but I doubt they will. Can't piss him off....
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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Funny thing is, last night the play wasn't designed for Lebron. So even when they tried protecting him from choking away another last second shot, he still got a chance to tie the game and bricked. Just watch the play, he's in such a panic that he doesn't even know that there's plenty of time on the clock for him to set up properly and he just rushes the shot and as a result it falls short. So chances are they hurt his feelings by giving the shot to bosh (again, wtf?!!?!), AND he still managed to choke. lol
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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Funny thing is, last night the play wasn't designed for Lebron. So even when they tried protecting him from choking away another last second shot, he still got a chance to tie the game and bricked. Just watch the play, he's in such a panic that he doesn't even know that there's plenty of time on the clock for him to set up properly and he just rushes the shot and as a result it falls short. So chances are they hurt his feelings by giving the shot to bosh (again, wtf?!!?!), AND he still managed to choke. lol
If they gave it to Bosh, it's a unique original play that shows how "unselfish" they are!

But if they gave it to Wade, LeBrick would get butt hurt.

Get it?

LeBrick's mental weakness will be the downfall of the Heat.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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I've read through the last 10 or so pages of this thread and i thought i would throw in my 2 cents.

What I've learned from this free agency is that Lebron James was not who we thought he was. During his 7 years in Cleveland he realized that he doesn't have the competitiveness and mental toughness to lead a team to a title. I think he's incredibly relieved to not be the guy on his team anymore because he learned that he was never going to be strong enough to shoulder that role.

This is why Miami was able to land Lebron, because Riley and Wade are the only ones that truly understood Lebron's mind. Chicago and NY tried to challenge Lebron to be an all time great and lead their teams to championships. They tried to play to his competitiveness and desire to be great, but obviously Lebron is heavily lacking in both of those areas. He only wanted titles.

I'm not upset that Lebron chose Miami because i understand he is desperate for championships. I'm more so disappointed that when it came time for the most hyped up and talented athlete of our generation to show his true colors, they were as far from a "King" as you can get. No matter how many rings he wins, Lebron will never go down as one of the truly great players this league has seen. This is unfortunate because the idea that he was going to be one of the greats has been shoved down our throats ever since he entered the league. Ever since he was on the map Lebron told us that he wanted to be the next MJ. I don't know if he was lying or if he had a change of heart, but from now on he will never be more than the 2nd coming of Scottie Pippen.

Nothing stood out to me more than when Lebron said "Dwayne is unselfish for allowing me and Chris to come to his team." I can't think of one all-time great player that would ever say that. No one that says that sentence would ever be capable of leading a team to a title on his own.
I still stand by basically everything I said then, dude is a ***** with a capital P
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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I still stand by basically everything I said then, dude is a ***** with a capital P
You were so spot on it's not even funny. You nailed it.

Absolutely nailed it.

NO great player would ever say that. Not a single one.

I hope Knick fans start chanting "SIDEKICK!" everytime he comes to the line at the Garden.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Completely agree with that, Jets. It seems to me he has the "ends and means" of greatness mixed up. He wants easy championships to validate his greatness, but it works the other way around.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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It's funny listening to ESPN talk about making a coaching change as if that will solve the problem. No matter who they bring in, they're going to be hamstrung by not wanting to piss off Lebron.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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I think Pat Riley would help, clearly a better basketball mind than Spolstra.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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I ******* love LeBron.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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I think Pat Riley would help, clearly a better basketball mind than Spolstra.
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It's funny listening to ESPN talk about making a coaching change as if that will solve the problem. No matter who they bring in, they're going to be hamstrung by not wanting to piss off Lebron.
I think it's funny, too. After all, Spoelstra has been working under Riley since Riley's first year in Miami (1995). He's his hand picked guy. He's been grooming him for years.

Secondly, I think it's foolish to assume that the three amigos even want to play for him. Remember this article, anyone?

Quote:
But from the Be-Careful-What-You-Wish-For Dept: Do they really want Riley?
If they don't like Spoelstra's two-hour practices, they should talk with Dwyane Wade about Riley's four-hour practices.


If LeBron James didn't like being called out by Spoelstra in the privacy of a practice, he should hear the story of Riley challenging Shaquille O'Neal to a fight in practice when Shaq didn't want to work.


If James thinks the "fun" quotient is missing - and who's to say it isn't for him? - no one takes basketball more seriously than Riley. Again, he and Alonzo Mourning are of the same mindset. Not he and Shaq.


Would Riley be an upgrade? Come on. He'd be an upgrade on anyone but Phil Jackson in basketball. Riley is a Hall of Fame coach. He's won everywhere. So you know his X's and O's are there, assuming at 65 he hasn't lost his fastball. And it's possible he has, considering the last time he coached the 15-win team a few years ago he couldn't wait to stop.
But the question to the Heat season isn't Spoelstra's X's and O's. And you have a staff with Ron Rothstein that is as good as you can have from a basketball standpoint.


So if LeBron, Wade and Chris Bosh aren't happy with the coaching, the first place they should like is in the mirror.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Can we just call LeBron the 'Evolutionary Wilt Chamberlain' now?
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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I like coward more. Bc that's what he is...a coward.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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He's afraid of missing his free throws. He's not a great free throw shooter.

The guy is a coward. I didn't realize it until this year, all the signs were there. He's not Jordan, he's not Kobe, he'll never be those guys. He's mentally weak.
This is Knicks fans code for: "I didn't hate him until he decided not to play on the Knicks, because if he came to the Knicks I'd think he was the greatest player ever."

Also, for as much as I may dislike LeBron (have disliked him before he went to the Heat, fwiw) calling him a coward is pretty weak. Maybe it's just me, but calling someone a coward is about the worst thing you can do, and tossing it around in this situation seems unnecessary.

I also think it's funny how people like to make up story lines in their heads about how LeBron has to be the guy to take the last shot, and would be offended if it wasn't him. If anything, he's one of the most unselfish superstars the league has. In fact, I remember when people would use to ***** at him in Cleveland when he would DEFER the last shot to a wide open teammate. Hilarious how things have changed in such a short time span.

Also, maybe the reason Dwyane Wade isn't shooting last second threes is because he's ******* atrocious at shooting threes. Just a thought, though.

And finally, I hate trying to be reasonable when it comes to "defending" LeBron because he's a douche bag, but the amount of stupidity people try to create regarding LeBron because they don't like him is more annoying than LeBron himself is.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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And finally, I hate trying to be reasonable when it comes to "defending" LeBron because he's a douche bag, but the amount of stupidity people try to create regarding LeBron because they don't like him is more annoying than LeBron himself is.
Which is why I'm forced to pretty much like the guy. Even though I hate his bitchy persona.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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They got a little help from the Heat, but yeah, that was the 2nd largest come back win in Orlando history. I'm still giddy. They're actually proving to be a team very capable of making late runs. They did the same thing against the Knicks recently. I like, I like. Gotta love teams that dont get demoralized when in the hole, that def. shows some, dare I say...True Grit.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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This is Knicks fans code for: "I didn't hate him until he decided not to play on the Knicks, because if he came to the Knicks I'd think he was the greatest player ever."

Also, for as much as I may dislike LeBron (have disliked him before he went to the Heat, fwiw) calling him a coward is pretty weak. Maybe it's just me, but calling someone a coward is about the worst thing you can do, and tossing it around in this situation seems unnecessary.

I also think it's funny how people like to make up story lines in their heads about how LeBron has to be the guy to take the last shot, and would be offended if it wasn't him. If anything, he's one of the most unselfish superstars the league has. In fact, I remember when people would use to ***** at him in Cleveland when he would DEFER the last shot to a wide open teammate. Hilarious how things have changed in such a short time span.

Also, maybe the reason Dwyane Wade isn't shooting last second threes is because he's ******* atrocious at shooting threes. Just a thought, though.

And finally, I hate trying to be reasonable when it comes to "defending" LeBron because he's a douche bag, but the amount of stupidity people try to create regarding LeBron because they don't like him is more annoying than LeBron himself is.
Of course I was upset he didn't come here. But that's not the reason why I hate him. I hate him bc he took the easy way out. If he went to Chicago, or stayed in Cleveland, I'd respect him. When he went to Miami, I lost all respect for him.

But I always thought he was the best player in the league. Even when he went to Miami I thought he was. But it's become clear that all the knocks on him are valid. The guy lacks the mentality you need to be a Jordan or a Kobe.

I always thought he just needed good players around him. Well he has that now, and he still can't come through in big moments.

Lebron doesn't pass it up in those big moments bc he's unselfish, Lebron passes it bc he's scared to take the last shot. He can't handle the criticism.

He's passed on wide open shots himself in the clutch to pass it to someone else. He can't handle the moment.

His personality is just cowardly. He's a front runner. He grew up a Bulls fan, a Cowboys fan, and a Yankees fan. Why? Bc they all won. They were the easy team to root for.

Now he takes the easy way out in FA. Why? Bc it's the cowardly thing to do, just like being a front runner.

So yes, I have no problem calling him a coward. It's his personality.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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If they gave it to Bosh, it's a unique original play that shows how "unselfish" they are!

But if they gave it to Wade, LeBrick would get butt hurt.

Get it?

LeBrick's mental weakness will be the downfall of the Heat.
Is it LeBron getting butt hurt or LeBron knowing that if he doesn't take the last shot people will talk about him as Wade's side kick as a way to diminish how incredibly beastly the guy is for the vast majority of the game despite having some terrible basketball fundamentals?

LeBron's not Kobe or Jordan, but that doesn't mean he can't be an absolutely amazing player who's better than either one. He'd just be a different type of dominant force if instead of focusing on becoming that final shot assassin he focused on becoming that guy who'll get Robert Horry open for the buzzer-beater that he can't hit himself.

The problem with Miami is exactly that people are talking about how he can't hit that game winner, it's gotten into his head now. He needs to get over it and start focusing on what he can do to get Wade or Bibby the easiest final shot they can get, he can still be a force in the waning seconds without being the guy taking that final shot, especially on a team that has a guy who has a history of being that clutch, game-winner, but people have been comparing him to Jordan and Kobe for so long that I don't think he can accept that he's a different type of person than they are and so he needs to learn how to finish games differently than they did it. Hopefully in a year or two people will talk about him in a different light and we won't here him compared to Jordan and Kobe as much letting him maybe finally get out from that shadow.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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The Heat should go after Jerry Sloan hard. Seems like an odd matchup, but it would be pretty awesome to see it unfold.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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according to 82games.com Lebron is the most clutch player in the NBA - everyone
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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I see a fair number of Bleacher Report columns concerning Erik Spoelstra and whether or not he needs to be canned.

The people who say he needs to be canned- and summarily blamed for the Heat not performing to expectations- either do not or can not name a coach who could succeed where Spo has failed... or they turn immediately to 65-year old Pat Riley.

You'd think 65 Years Old would be a warning sign, even if you're Pat Riley. That's legit 'I lost my fastball and am about to lose my curve too' territory.
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Is he scared, or does he just realize that there are guys better suited for the role and that a contested shot from him is often times a much worse shot than wide open shot from someone else. I do think that it's started to get in his head now, but not because there's a fundamental fear of choking the game away, just that he knows that him forcing that shot isn't what's best for the team but people talk so much about that that he can't ignore it and is effecting his game.
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Old 03-04-2011, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Of course I was upset he didn't come here. But that's not the reason why I hate him. I hate him bc he took the easy way out. If he went to Chicago, or stayed in Cleveland, I'd respect him. When he went to Miami, I lost all respect for him.

But I always thought he was the best player in the league. Even when he went to Miami I thought he was. But it's become clear that all the knocks on him are valid. The guy lacks the mentality you need to be a Jordan or a Kobe.

I always thought he just needed good players around him. Well he has that now, and he still can't come through in big moments.

Lebron doesn't pass it up in those big moments bc he's unselfish, Lebron passes it bc he's scared to take the last shot. He can't handle the criticism.

He's passed on wide open shots himself in the clutch to pass it to someone else. He can't handle the moment.


His personality is just cowardly. He's a front runner. He grew up a Bulls fan, a Cowboys fan, and a Yankees fan. Why? Bc they all won. They were the easy team to root for.

Now he takes the easy way out in FA. Why? Bc it's the cowardly thing to do, just like being a front runner.

So yes, I have no problem calling him a coward. It's his personality.
Like I said, you're just making up story lines in your head. But that is sports these days, people like to believe they know what people are thinking and state it as if they have inside knowledge of the situation.

And how did he take the easy way out? He is a coward because he wanted leave his **** hole Cleveland team with a douche bag owner and play with his friends? Because he wanted to take less money, which is something we claim athletes NEVER do? Do people forget Kobe demanded a trade? I'm sure Kobe would have stayed with the Lakers all these years if they weren't constantly putting superb talent around him, too! Same with Jordan. The difference is the Cavs are ******* moronic and think Antawn Jamison and Mo Williams are somehow difference makers.

Are you really going to consider him a coward because he likes the Yankees, Cowboys, and Bulls? Do you know how many people like those teams because thats what was constantly shoved down their throats in the late 80's and throughout the 90's? I may not like it myself, but that doesn't mean I can't understand it too. When you're a kid and see you teams with legendary players winning it all it tends you leave an imprint on you.
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Old 03-04-2011, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Is it LeBron getting butt hurt or LeBron knowing that if he doesn't take the last shot people will talk about him as Wade's side kick as a way to diminish how incredibly beastly the guy is for the vast majority of the game despite having some terrible basketball fundamentals?

LeBron's not Kobe or Jordan, but that doesn't mean he can't be an absolutely amazing player who's better than either one. He'd just be a different type of dominant force if instead of focusing on becoming that final shot assassin he focused on becoming that guy who'll get Robert Horry open for the buzzer-beater that he can't hit himself.

The problem with Miami is exactly that people are talking about how he can't hit that game winner, it's gotten into his head now. He needs to get over it and start focusing on what he can do to get Wade or Bibby the easiest final shot they can get, he can still be a force in the waning seconds without being the guy taking that final shot, especially on a team that has a guy who has a history of being that clutch, game-winner, but people have been comparing him to Jordan and Kobe for so long that I don't think he can accept that he's a different type of person than they are and so he needs to learn how to finish games differently than they did it. Hopefully in a year or two people will talk about him in a different light and we won't here him compared to Jordan and Kobe as much letting him maybe finally get out from that shadow.
I hate to break this to you... but he'll never escape that shadow. Ever.

More to the point, he'll never truly develop the facilitator role he so desperately needs to elevate his game beyond what it currently is. Best case scenario, it's going to take at least one, maybe several, failed trips through the playoffs to get it through his skull, but even then it's not so likely.

That's why I call him the Evolutionary Wilt Chamberlain- their skills and mental makeup seem eerily similar.
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