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Old 03-08-2011, 05:37 AM    (permalink
ChiFan24
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I'd like to see these articles in years past from McGinn....see how accurate this scout is (if it's the same guy).
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Wrathman View Post
I think it's pretty cool that some scout shares some of their information like this over the past several years.

It's probably not nearly so cool that a few of the Youtube scouts that post here don't understand that this is not a "black and white" business and that divergent opinions are a good thing. Instead they call the scout dumb, stupid and/or wrong because they have a different opinion, but they can't provide any valid counterpoint to support their argument.

SSDD
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Originally Posted by GaMeTiMe View Post
Exactly. And all of it almost creates a collective groan that basically says "Didn't you see Scott's rankings?!!?"

These guys aren't pulling the trigger on making these picks for the teams. They don't read your mock. They might not even really know what the personnel decisions the team they work for plans to make. Their job is to scout these guys and give an evaluation on the types of players they are. This is professional insight, not the secret tell-all interview of what prospect is going to be drafted where.
You two win.

A lot of people don't understand how little influence scouts have in the drafting process, despite having the most (or best) information about a player.
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brown Leader View Post
Some of the interesting anonymous quotes from scouts, or a scout, per PFW draft mag in their section, "what the scouts are saying"...def the best part of the mag...
So... does this guy like anybody other than Tandon Doss?
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TACKLE View Post
That scout is one Negative Nancy.
Scouts are paid as much to come up with reasons "not to draft this guy" than anything else. Anybody who has watched a college football game in the past year can tell you that Cam Newton is talented, that doesn't take much in the way of critical analysis. It's a symptom of the "draft as entertainment" business that we try to make the best of everybody, since that way we drum up excitement and we can get people to come on our shows if we've been nice to them. Scouts have no reason to be nice, in fact they probably shouldn't be nice since most of the 255 guys drafted anyway won't even manage to be average.
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TACKLE View Post
That scout is one Negative Nancy.
He's totally right about Peterson, though. No one brings it up b/c of his hype and he got away with it in college but the guy freelances more than DeAngelo Hall.

That's one of the big reasons I think he'd better at safety. Not his size
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TACKLE
That scout is one Negative Nancy.
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Originally Posted by SchizophrenicBatman View Post
He's totally right about Peterson, though. No one brings it up b/c of his hype and he got away with it in college but the guy freelances more than DeAngelo Hall.

That's one of the big reasons I think he'd better at safety. Not his size
I was kind of being silly with that comment. Clearly he's not going to hype up prospects his team likes and is interested in drafting.

Also on the topic of Peterson, he is still raw technically, no doubt about that. There are numerous corners in this draft more polished than him. He's been more of an athlete playing cornerback opposed to a cornerback who is an athlete yet he still managed to be the most dominant corners in college football. He should become more technically sound and disciplined with NFL coaching and when he does, there's no reason to believe he can't be an elite cornerback.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post
So... does this guy like anybody other than Tandon Doss?
Quote:
Jake Locker - " has an ascend factor. What you see is what you get. I don't think you can throw him out there day one, but I would take him over all of them. He has so much upside."

Jacquizz Rodgers - " left school so he could help his mom out. That's why his brother was thinking of leaving last year. His brother has been the one who returns kicks, but that's not to say he can't do it. He'll be a factor just like Darren Sproles."

John Moffitt - "could be a helluva center. He's strictly an in line player, but he's smart enough to play both OG and OC. He's a tough 4 year starter."

Will Rackley - "stood out at the East-West shrine game. He was the best lineman there. It wasn't even close. He has such strong hands."

Marcell Dareus - " is a slam dunk. I would take him....He's a helluva football player.."
There a bunch more both positive and negative-it makes no indication if it's the same guy or not. Should be noted that it sounds like these are from just after the senior week practices.
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Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
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....ask Brandon Weeden.
Pre-Draft 2014 Mock *FULL DRAFT*
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Old 03-08-2011, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brown Leader View Post
Adrian Clayborn - " I'll take the one armed ass kicker over most of these guys. His arm is scary. It's noticeable in practice. He's still a damn good player but we'll leave it in the hands of the medical people. "
No one talks about this. His arm should be a major talking point. I brought it up months ago, and this is the first time I have heard someone else bring it up. He's a great player, but that arm limits his ability to use his hands / technique.

I fully agree about Justin Houston. I was shocked that he came out early and I'm maybe even more shocked that people are talking about him at the end of round 1. Whenever I saw him, he was pretty much invisible. At the Combine he looked really bad in space, was tight and looks like a 43 DE.

Cam Newton comments were pretty much dead on.


Everything he said about the top 3 CBs (Peterson, Prince, Smith) is true. It's their biggest weaknesses / question marks.
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I honestly believe Reggie Bush has turned into exactly the type of player I envisioned.
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I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
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I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round
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Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.
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Old 03-08-2011, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ChiFan24 View Post
I'd like to see these articles in years past from McGinn....see how accurate this scout is (if it's the same guy).
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Originally Posted by GB12 View Post
Just so you know, the quotes in the original post are from a number of different scouts, not one guy.
.......................
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Old 03-08-2011, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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If anyone wants to look what they said to Mcginn in 2009 here's the link.
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com...&thread=333250
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brown Leader View Post
Some of the interesting anonymous quotes from scouts, or a scout, per PFW draft mag in their section, "what the scouts are saying"...def the best part of the mag...
Yeah, I love the PFW Draft Mag, I pick it up as soon as its released.

I like reading that part as well....very insightful.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:18 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post
So... does this guy like anybody other than Tandon Doss?
Yeah, he liked Marcel Dareus, said he 'was a slam dunk'.

Was kinda wary of Bowers, completely turned off by Will Hill and Marvin Austin.

I have the mag, but not in front of me right now.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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Some of the same criticisms are shared between Locker and Freeman...I think Locker is this year's Josh Freeman

JOSH FREEMAN Kansas State 6-5 1/2 250 4.95 1-2
Became the starter five games into his freshman season and finished 14-18 overall. “He’s not a Donovan McNabb or a Daunte Culpepper, but if you’re looking for a quarterback to groom I would say this is the guy,” St. Louis VP Tony Softli said. “He’s got the size, the arm strength, touch. He can run with the ball. Very articulate and very smart (27 on the Wonderlic).” Operated a spread shotgun offense with marginal effectiveness, finishing with a passer rating of 81.0. Passed for 8,078 yards, breaking Lynn Dickey’s school record of 6,208. “You can’t pull any tape out and say you feel good about how that guy plays,” one scout said. “He’s bad. Raw talent but he has no clue. He has no vision. Very inaccurate. Their offense was one of the most inept I’ve seen. Him trying to run it, it was hard to watch.” His father, Ron, played in the United States Football League. Grew up in Kansas City. “He’s raw with footwork and release points,” another scout said. “Very inconsistent accuracy. He’s got some underachiever in him. Even though he’s smart enough he’s got some laziness about him.”
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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Does anyone know when the McGinn stuff comes out? Is it usually closer to the draft?
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SolidGold View Post
Does anyone know when the McGinn stuff comes out? Is it usually closer to the draft?
Don't quote me on this, but I remember it coming out only a few days before the draft last year.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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J. Baldwin- " Best hands in draft, huge targert, great ball skills. definatley more of an X(split end) than a Z(flanker). not a good route runner. maneuverability in his hips is a little bit of an issue. chip on his shoulder wants to prove hes as good as Green and Jones.
I think this entire thread is awesome but this i just 100% not true. What ball skills? I have watched every game of Jon Baldwin in the Pitt uniform and do not recall one game of him having good, rather than elite ball skills. Most notably his adjustments to the ball in the air that is misthrown. His abillity to high point a ball is extremely weak. when they talk abotu going up and getting it or not waiting for the ball to come to you they should show some of his highlights. If you dont believe me just watch one of his good games against West Virginia (not the game with Tino Sunseri....with the 2nd team all big east bill stull).... Hes all freak athlete and huge production against he mediocre defenses of the Big East. That being said, when the ball hits his hands its usually his. he just doesnt get there often enough for me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sPxeIzAzTo

good player but not a first round pick in my book
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I think I might want to punch you.

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Old 02-26-2012, 12:46 AM    (permalink
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Scout's quotes 2012: Quick quotes on 50+ prospects

Some of the more entertaining ones...

Quote:
Andrew Luck*, QB, Stanford: 6-4, 234. "He's the best I've done (scouted)," said one scout with almost two decades of experience in personnel. "He's got it all and can do it all. He has no flaws. Smart. Winner. Productive. Decisions. Runs the offense. Got nobody playing with him. The receivers were 5-9 and run 4.8. The defense has no athletes on it. He carried that team." Three-year starter with an NFL passer rating of 111.9. "He is a Matt Ryan-type player," another scout said. "He can't carry the team on his shoulders, but he's a really good manager. His arm isn't even close to Aaron Rodgers' and he doesn't have Aaron's feet. He's smart, competitive, tough. His teammates love him. The media has put so much pressure on this kid. It's unbelievable. They've basically anointed him Jesus Christ."
Quote:
Robert Griffin*, QB, Baylor: 6-2˝, 223. "He's phenomenal," one scout said. "He's going to need technique work and fundamentals. I have no problem about that. But you cannot lose the fact that he's got feet, touch downfield with accuracy, a strong arm. He's charismatic and smart as (expletive)." Played and started all four years, but had his '09 season cut short by a knee injury requiring reconstructive surgery. Finished with an NFL passer rating of 110.1. "He cannot play quarterback," another scout said. "He's just running around winging it. He has no idea how to play quarterback. He's got no vision. He's got no accuracy. No touch. Anything you look for in an NFL quarterback, he doesn't have it. You want him to run around and throw the ball and just keep running, he can do that. He's (Michael) Vick, but not as good a thrower."
Quote:
Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina: 6-5˝, 284. Talented and versatile enough to play any D-line position in any scheme. "At the Senior Bowl nobody could (expletive) block him," one scout said. "He's such a smooth, fluid-moving guy. Sometimes it comes so easy to him, maybe he gets bored. He can do anything he wants." Production and effort appeared to wane as a senior. Labeled a "complete underachiever" in 2011 by another scout. "You want to like him, but I don't think he plays the run real well," a third scout said. "He will go in the first, but he scares me. There's a lot of things that I don't trust about those (North Carolina) guys."
Quote:
Morris Claiborne*, CB, Louisiana State: 6-0, 185. Seldom played as a true freshman, then intercepted five passes opposite Patrick Peterson in 2010 and picked six more in '11. "I think he's a good player but, man, I know a lot of top-10 corners that were better than him," one scout said. "I don't think he'll be a flop. He's got excellent ball skills and good speed. He's a solid cornerback in the NFL." Peterson's exceptional work on returns puts him above Claiborne. "He's athletic as hell," another scout said. "Sudden. Fast. Will hit."
Quote:
Dre Kirkpatrick*, CB, Alabama: 6-2˝, 190. Another two-year starter with three interceptions. "He's the toughest of all the corners coming out this year," one scout said. "Looks like he can run." Was arrested for marijuana possession in January, but the charge was dropped. "He's going to (expletive) you off because he's such a freelancer," another scout said. "That's kind of his persona. To do that you'd better be Deion Sanders. Claiborne's upside isn't as big as Kirkpatrick's. Claiborne is more well-rounded."
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Courtney Upshaw, OLB, Alabama: 6-1˝, 272. Projects as an OLB in a 3-4 or a strong-side LB in a 4-3. "The only reason Upshaw could go ahead of Ingram is because Upshaw actually played up and down and Ingram played all over the place," one scout said. "I don't think Upshaw was really outstanding in the Senior Bowl. I thought he was just ordinary. He's very physical, but he gets cut a lot. That's because he's stiff." Two-year starter with 16˝ sacks. "(People) think he's Cornelius Bennett and he's not," another scout said. "He's a good, tough, nasty college football player that I think will get blocked a lot in the NFL." Scored just 9 on the 50-question Wonderlic intelligence test. "He's just a tough (expletive)," a third scout said. "He's really not a burn the edge guy. He is not fast. He's built like a fire hydrant. Maybe a 3-4 team will take him in the first."
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Mike Adams, T, Ohio State: 6-7, 323. Played just nine games his first two seasons because of injuries and then sat out first five games of 2011 on an NCAA suspension. "He has first-round ability, but I don't trust him," one scout said. "He's got talent and is immense, but he really isn't strong." Gargantuan hands (11 inches). "He played left tackle and can be a right tackle," another scout said. "He actually can play guard. He's got upside." Scouts have major reservations about his character.
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Alameda Ta'amu, NT, Washington: 6-2˝, 348. Made himself a lot of money with a terrific week at the Senior Bowl. "You can't single-block him," one scout said. "He's athletic for his size." Started 42 of 50 games, finishing with 7˝ sacks. "He's very much like Paul Soliai of the Dolphins," another scout said. "He is a true space-eater. He didn't play like that (the Senior Bowl) all year. He did have a good Senior Bowl, he really did. He's got a big (expletive) and great big thick thighs on him."
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Stephon Gilmore*, CB, South Carolina: 6-1, 195. Started all 39 games of his three-year career, intercepting eight passes. "He looks good," one scout said. "Wish he was a little better tackler. I got a few questions about him, but I'd take him over Jenkins without even a blink." Mentored by Sheldon Brown, a cornerback for Philadelphia and Cleveland. "Good size, very good athlete and can cover," another scout said. "He didn't have a great year this year, but he's a definite second if not first round."
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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"He cannot play quarterback," another scout said. "He's just running around winging it. He has no idea how to play quarterback. He's got no vision. He's got no accuracy. No touch. Anything you look for in an NFL quarterback, he doesn't have it. You want him to run around and throw the ball and just keep running, he can do that. He's (Michael) Vick, but not as good a thrower."

ZING!!!
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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"He cannot play quarterback," another scout said. "He's just running around winging it. He has no idea how to play quarterback. He's got no vision. He's got no accuracy. No touch. Anything you look for in an NFL quarterback, he doesn't have it. You want him to run around and throw the ball and just keep running, he can do that. He's (Michael) Vick, but not as good a thrower."

ZING!!!

No touch? what?
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:27 AM    (permalink
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No offense, but the scout knocking Grif sounds like a pure idiot. He sounds 13 years old.
'Anything you look for in a quarterback, he doesn't have it'. LOL. Wow.

I don't think I've ever read such a negative assessment of any pro QB prospect expected to go high in the first round. Not even Jamarcus Russell.

I would LOVE to know what team he works for, but he's probably a freelancer.
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:30 AM    (permalink
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No touch? what?
The thing is, to me, with all the stuff Griffin needs to do, it's like he can do it... sometimes. All the time. He's such a fantastic athlete his game film is *full* of him making these amazing plays... but then on some really ordinary ones he doesn't look very good. I'm realizing as I write this that it's the same thing I've written before about Tim Tebow. Griffin's a bit more polished and has better form, but they're in the same boat as guys who have such tremendous athletic ability that their talent allows them to complete spectacular plays, but they don't execute with consistency. The margin of error is so much larger in college, and both of these guys were playing with NFL talent around them. And Tebow never had a receiver like Kendall Wright. I just look at Griffin, and when I see him losing his focus in the pocket, or even just the way he throws... he looks like he's throwing darts... It just doesn't look like an NFL presence to me. I don't know what it is, exactly. The scout's much more specific than I'd be. But ultimately, I kinda do see him like a poor-man's Michael Vick without the character connotations. Spectacular athlete with a big arm, but you kinda get the impression he's at quarterback because while all the other athletes were being converted to wide receivers, coaches saw the arm and the athleticism and thought, "No, it'd be SICK if we kept this guy at quarterback." And it certainly was, in college, but the NFL is so much faster. The reason it worked for Cam Newton last year is because he's decisive. He's so confident, he just makes decisions and that confidence comes from having the athletic ability to play that way. But guys like Griffin and Vick sometimes seem like they're waiting too long for a play to happen. Same with Tebow. He's great in the 4th quarter because the pressure is on - he HAS to throw it quickly. He HAS to make up his mind in a split second whether to run or throw. But that's what I see with Griffin. He just plays like an athlete out there, and I know he looks more like a traditional quarterback than either Tebow or Newton, but I'm just not sold, and I don't think I will be. He's all the way up to #2 overall now. That's reaaaaally high. I'm not really arguing about the value. There's no question a lot of people think really highly of him. But I know there's a fair contingent of others in the draft community, who for some reason or other, look at his game and leave it kinda scratching their neck, saying, "Yeah... that was a great game. But I don't know what it is... Don't quite see it."

Anyways. I am profoundly lukewarm about Griffin. He's a guy I see as a boom-or-bust prospect, and I think maybe people are used to associating that label with prospects who are character concerns, although that's not the case with Griffin. I think there is still plenty of room for a great guy and terrific athlete to find success elusive, and Griffin is the guy who's making me think that way.

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Old 02-26-2012, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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Did a scout bump his head and confuse Griffin with Jordan Jefferson?
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:42 AM    (permalink
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All of Tebow's starting WRs are in the NFL, and how can you forget Percy Harvin??

Baylor's offensive talent wasn't in the same solar system as UF.

I think people are confusing Grif sitting back waiting for plays to open up 40 yards downfield with him being indecisive. RGIII was almost always looking for that home run throw and only looked intermediate when the pocket was collapsing or the WR was blanketed. In the NFL I believe his OC is going to communicate to him the importance of picking up first downs and not always looking to score on every pass.

We have a difference of opinion on Griffin because I see a guy who's going to be this generation's Steve Young. His negatives to me are negligible.
Grif was rarely off target on any pass he threw and his accuracy in general, not just downfield, IMO is uncanny.

I never got the impression he was playing street football when the ball was snapped.
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:55 AM    (permalink
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All of Tebow's starting WRs are in the NFL, and how can you forget Percy Harvin??

Baylor's offensive talent wasn't in the same solar system as UF.
Percy Harvin was half-running back and was drafted to be that kind of player and a return man. He wasn't inflating Tebow's passing stats. Louis Murphy is a solid player who hasn't stood out past his rookie year. Aaron Hernandez is a good TE, but benefits greatly from playing in one the most creative offenses in the NFL, and from being the second TE on a team who already has the best TE in the NFL; he's a matchup receiver who's gets matched up as a second priority. He's going to make a lot of plays in that offense, but he's a guy who's offense makes him far more than he makes his offense.

On the other hand, Griffin is throwing to a wideout who might be picked in the top-10, and unlike Harvin, is going to be drafted on his abilities as a pure wideout. And while we're talking about the players who surrounded them, let's not forget the difference in the quality of defenses they went up against.
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:00 AM    (permalink
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My opinion of RG3 is in no way fully formed, but I can kind of see what that second scout is saying. It's hard to translate what RG3 does on tape to an NFL field. If nothing else, I can say that I liked Cam Newton a lot better. I saw him doing things in college that I could easily envision him doing in the NFL. But maybe that's just me.
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