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Old 03-09-2011, 09:37 AM    (permalink
JoeJoeBrown
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
Schlabach (who never misses a chance to take a shot at anything Big 10-related) actually summed up the Buckeye point of view pretty well. As long as Tressel keeps beating Michigan, he's a made man.
Yep. If he wasn't kicking UM's ass every year and in general winning at a rate that very few in the history of major college football have ever achieved, he would have been fired.

The conspiracy side of me says that he is taking one for the AD here possibly. He might have actually forwarded this on and the school sat on it. Either way, someone there sat on the info and it's rotten.

It's a major violation and it stinks.

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Well put. I'm tired about hearing how these kids from the "hood" can't afford anything and are put to work for little to no pay. Like I've said before, I managed to survive in college without a scholarship through loans and all that fun ****. I certainly am not the only one. These guys can survive just fine with their room, board, tuition, books, meals, gym, etc... paid for.
Yep. It's not about not being able to afford life. It's that these kids are getting paid. I have no illusions about amateurism at any big time athletic program. The degrees may vary, but they are professionals.

Professionalize the game.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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o hai thar hard evidence

http://www.610wtvn.com/pages/templat..._march2011.pdf

resignation/hilarious spin attempt in 3...2...1...
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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Well, you knew this was coming.

http://mgoblog.com/content/somewhat-...funny-business

Quote:
2003
That's a nice car/job/wad of money. Maurice Clarett sits out the season after claiming his expensive dealership car was robbed of over 10k in stuff. Questioned by the NCAA, Clarett refuses to give straight answers to questions 17 times because "half the team would've been suspended, and it would've been worse for everybody."

Clarett also claims his grades were total fiction, he got phantom jobs, that coaches would tell him to talk to certain people who just happened to drop thousands of dollars they didn't care about, that he got free cars and free rent. Ohio State fans discount Clarett as mentally unstable, which he is.

That's a nice tutor. Clarett's grad student tutor confirms the total fiction grades bit of Clarett's story to the New York Times. The internal response was lovely: "Goings attacked the teaching assistant's credibility, saying he found it difficult to believe her because she had a history of psychiatric problems and displayed what he called erratic behavior." Goings calls the tutor a liar and fires her after she meets with him about another player.

2004
That's a nice job. Booster Robert Q Baker gives Troy Smith $500 for a fake job, getting Smith suspended a couple games and himself dissociated from the program. A couple years earlier Chris Gamble also worked for Baker's company.

More, but I don't want to copy and paste the whole thing because, well, that's not very nice.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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My personal favorite coming up. The NCAA really had their heads in the sand on this one.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...s.html?sid=101

Quote:
Three times in the past three years, Ohio State quarterback Terrelle Pryor was stopped for traffic violations while driving cars that were owned by a car salesman or a Columbus used-car lot where the salesman worked, according to traffic citations obtained by The Dispatch.

...

In that incident, Pryor was ticketed for speeding in eastern Ohio's Guernsey County, driving a 2004 GMC Denali that belonged to car salesman Aaron Kniffin when he said he worked for the Jack Maxton dealership.

...

This past March, Pryor was stopped for speeding in Licking County with a 2009 Dodge that is registered to Auto Direct of Columbus, a used-car dealership on E. Dublin-Granville Road where Kniffin worked. A week later, Pryor was pulled over in Columbus for a different infraction, driving the same Dodge.

Ohio State knew about Pryor's use of the car while he had the engine in his own car replaced this past spring and was assured that every customer receives a loaner when extended repairs like that are necessary, Archie said.

...

Kniffin said that while working at Maxton he allowed Pryor to drive his SUV to his hometown in Pennsylvania so that his mother could check it out. Pryor did not buy the vehicle. Kniffin also said he arranged for Pryor to use the 2009 Dodge while Pryor's car was being repaired.
I used Mapquest to determine how far OSU is from Pryor's hometown of Jeanette, Pa. 210 miles- just south of four hours' worth of driving. Let me know when anyone else finds a dealer that lets them drive a car eight hours roundtrip so their mom can check it out. For the record, the 2004 Denali sold for anywhere between $36,000 and $50,000.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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Yep. Lot's of shady stuff with those guys.

The sad thing is that this happens everywhere. Even UM. There is little integrity in the game.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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A few thoughts:

- Tressel knew about this and decided not to say anything hoping that it would go away. Don't deny it and don't try and spin it. Every other coach in college football would've probably done the same thing. It's not that big of a deal in my opinion, but he did get caught.

- The fact that Ohio State self-reports the most violations of any school in the country is NOT evidence that it is one of the cleanest programs out there. You are assuming that every school has a similar number of violations committed. That would be a terrible assumption. Ever think that Ohio State self-reports more violations than any other school because they have more violations than most other schools? Is it so unbelievable that Ohio State would report every minor violation to gain trust from the NCAA, so that larger violations would have a better chance of going unnoticed?

- Most Michigan fans weren't upset that the NCAA enforced their rules. They were upset that we get busted for not counting stretching as practice time and have QC assistants overseeing voluntary practices while the NCAA turns a blind eye to the Auburns and Clemsons of college football.

- I don't hold anything against Ohio State for this. You'd have to be totally ignorant to believe that ANY school follows the NCAA rule book 100%. The ones who follow it the most are probably the ones who aren't very good in sports. It's just ridiculous to suggest this is something it's not. Poor Jim Tressel who runs to the NCAA every time an assistant coach gives a player a ride back to their dorm suddenly was confused about what to do with the information given to him regarding the tattoo shop. That's just ********.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by P-L View Post
A few thoughts:

- Tressel knew about this and decided not to say anything hoping that it would go away. Don't deny it and don't try and spin it. Every other coach in college football would've probably done the same thing. It's not that big of a deal in my opinion, but he did get caught.

- The fact that Ohio State self-reports the most violations of any school in the country is NOT evidence that it is one of the cleanest programs out there. You are assuming that every school has a similar number of violations committed. That would be a terrible assumption. Ever think that Ohio State self-reports more violations than any other school because they have more violations than most other schools? Is it so unbelievable that Ohio State would report every minor violation to gain trust from the NCAA, so that larger violations would have a better chance of going unnoticed?

- Most Michigan fans weren't upset that the NCAA enforced their rules. They were upset that we get busted for not counting stretching as practice time and have QC assistants overseeing voluntary practices while the NCAA turns a blind eye to the Auburns and Clemsons of college football.

- I don't hold anything against Ohio State for this. You'd have to be totally ignorant to believe that ANY school follows the NCAA rule book 100%. The ones who follow it the most are probably the ones who aren't very good in sports. It's just ridiculous to suggest this is something it's not. Poor Jim Tressel who runs to the NCAA every time an assistant coach gives a player a ride back to their dorm suddenly was confused about what to do with the information given to him regarding the tattoo shop. That's just ********.
Pretty much agree.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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I think the larger issue here is the fact that Dan Wetzal seems to be more effective than the entire NCAA when it comes to investigating anything, which is just an indictment of the NCAA's credibility

I eagerly anticipate Wetzal investigating Auburn and Oregon
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock View Post
So if i continually break the law then turn myself into the police makes me a good person?
whatever, every team commits violations. By self-reporting them it means the athletics department is trying to comply with the NCAA as much as they can. Do you think Lane Kiffin would self-report every minor violation he ever commits??? This is common knowledge.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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the 375 violations thing seems like a scary number and it very well could be... I just wish there were other numbers to compare
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
whatever, every team commits violations. By self-reporting them it means the athletics department is trying to comply with the NCAA as much as they can. Do you think Lane Kiffin would self-report every minor violation he ever commits??? This is common knowledge.
Everyone murders people, steals from you, steals from me. Obviously, no team commits violations quite like OSU does.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
I think the larger issue here is the fact that Dan Wetzal seems to be more effective than the entire NCAA when it comes to investigating anything, which is just an indictment of the NCAA's credibility

I eagerly anticipate Wetzal investigating Auburn and Oregon
Wetzel didn't do anything. OSU already self reported in February. Someone leaked the info to him. He merely spurred the public disclosure to be moved to an earlier date.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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Everyone murders people, steals from you, steals from me. Obviously, no team commits violations quite like OSU does.
At least with OSU, the witnesses to $500k payoffs don't mysteriously die of "heart attacks" before testifying.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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At least with OSU, the witnesses to $500k payoffs don't mysteriously die of "heart attacks" before testifying.
That's all well and good, but keylime's attempt at sweeping everything under the rug by saying that, "every team commits violations" is ridiculous when OSU leads the country in secondary violations in the past decade. Obviously, not everyone commits that many.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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That's all well and good, but keylime's attempt at sweeping everything under the rug by saying that, "every team commits violations" is ridiculous when OSU leads the country in secondary violations in the past decade. Obviously, not everyone commits that many.
True, but percentage wise it's probably not crazy. It has the most sports programs of any school, and the number dwarfs many schools outside of Stanford.

And they report things like "recruit was in the same elevator as Cris Carter". Auburn would laugh at such reporting. I think P-L is right that they go overboard in reporting stupid little things in order to get favoritism for the major violations.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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BTW, here are the most corrupt ADs out there.

Quote:
Let’s face it, our favorite college programs cheat. That thoroughbred running back who’s expected to anchor your school’s offense over the next three or four years didn’t come cheap. Sure, your school may not have been caught lately, but that’s probably because the coaches and boosters do it more discreetly than others — and kudos to them, because getting away with it isn’t always easy. According to Insider Higher Ed, almost half of all big-time college sports programs have been punished for major violations by the NCAA during the last decade. These days, even the Ivies aren’t immune to major infractions. The following programs are the most notorious repeat offenders, the blatant cheaters who always seem to have NCAA investigators breathing down their necks. This is where the phrase "lack of institutional control" becomes redundant.

1. Arizona State — Nine Major Infractions: The Sun Devils would be the biggest cheaters, but because they aren’t a consistent football powerhouse, their misdeeds have gone mostly under the radar. Arizona State is primarily known for its baseball program, which has won five national championships and produced legends such as Reggie Jackson and fittingly, Barry Bonds. Last December, it was penalized for major secondary violations, resulting in three years probation and a one-year ban from NCAA postseason. The NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions cited the athletic program for, most notably, improperly recruiting one player and giving improper benefits to multiple players. Arizona State was a repeat offender — in 2005, ASU was given two years probation for a lack of institutional control and impermissibly giving financial aid. The litany of problems led to the forced resignation of coach Pat Murphy, who led the Sun Devils to four College World Series appearances.
2. SMU — Eight Major Infractions: Holding the unfortunate distinction of being just one of five programs in NCAA history to suffer the death penalty, SMU football is still the poster child for corruption in major college athletics. Its capital offense was maintaining a slush fund to pay players from the mid-1970s to the mid-1980s, even when the program was already on probation — from 1974 to 1985, it was penalized on five separate occasions. Because SMU was under such intense scrutiny from the NCAA, the powers that be had little choice but to levy the harshest penalty. As a result, the entire 1987 season was canceled, SMU was forced to cancel the 1988 season, 55 scholarships were docked and the team was permitted to hire just five full-time assistant coaches instead of the regular nine. The program was crippled for almost two decades, but it has finally experienced a resurgence over the last couple of years. In 2009, head coach June Jones guided the programs its first bowl game since the 1984 Aloha Bowl.
3. Auburn — Seven Major Infractions: Seven major infractions for now, anyway. The Cam Newton situation aside, Auburn has had a difficult time playing by the rules over the years. Its most embarrassing incident occurred in 1991, when 60 Minutes aired recordings of head football coach Pat Dye arranging a loan for a player. The series of incriminating tapes were provided by former star defensive back Eric Ramsey and unveiled a player payment scheme involving the coaching staff and prominent booster "Corky" Frost. For its wrongdoing, Auburn received a two-year bowl ban, a one-year television and ban and lost 13 scholarships over a four-year period. Dye was replaced by Terry Bowden, who became the first Division 1 coach to go undefeated in his first season but had nothing to show for it.
4. Minnesota — Seven Major Infractions: During his 13-year stint as Minnesota’s head basketball coach, Clem Haskins oversaw runs to the Elite Eight, Final Four and NIT Championship. Today, however, only the Elite Eight appearance remains in the NCAA record books, as everything Haskins accomplished from 1993-1994 forward was vacated. Prior to the Golden Gophers’ appearance in the 1999 NCAA tournament, a former basketball office manager revealed that she had written more than 400 papers for numerous basketball players over several years. Haskins’ contract was bought out over the summer and he later admitted to paying her $3,000 for her work. As the NCAA investigation unfolded, he was accused of paying players, persuading professors to inflate players’ grades and ignoring sexual harassment concerns. The NCAA administered massive sanctions, notably docking five scholarships over three seasons and instituting recruiting limitations. The entire athletic department suffered, as athletic director, associate athletic director, vice president for student development and athletics and academic counselor were all forced to resign due to the scandal.
5. Oklahoma — Seven Major Infractions: Barry Switzer inherited a program on probation — it forfeited nine games from the 1972 season because of violations that resulted from the alteration of players’ transcripts — and left it on probation in 1988. The Sooners had garnered the reputation of being an outlaw program in the 1980s. During one rough patch, a shooting and rape occurred in an athletic dorm, a player attempted to sell drugs to undercover agent, and a player robbed Switzer’s home. The latter player probably didn’t receive person checks from Switzer, scalped game tickets, free airline tickets, or a boatload of money from a bidding war during his recruitment. All of that happened, and it resulted in a two-year bowl ban, a one-year live television ban and recruiting restrictions. More recently, Oklahoma’s basketball program was penalized when former basketball coach Kelvin Sampson, the same guy who later crippled the Indiana basketball program due to unethical recruiting practices, made 550 illegal calls to 17 different recruits.
6. Texas A&M — Seven Major Infractions: The Southwest Conference is probably the most corrupt entity in the history of college sports. If you competed in the SWC during the 1980s and weren’t cheating, you didn’t have a pulse. Not coincidentally, Texas A&M enjoyed quite a bit of success during the decade, winning three consecutive conference titles under Jackie Sherrill, who Joe Paterno once lumped with Barry Switzer when bemoaning that era of college football. Sherrill resigned in 1988 after the NCAA discovered that assistant coaches and boosters were providing improper benefits to recruits — one was given a sports car and another’s father was offered medical treatment. The Aggies were given two years of probation, banned from the postseason for one season and docked 10 scholarships. Additional violations by the basketball program in 1991 and the football program again in 1994 — a booster employed and overpaid nine players who didn’t really work — almost caused A&M to suffer the same fate as SMU.
7. Wichita State — Seven Major Infractions: Programs from smaller conferences are just as capable of skirting the rules as the big boys. Although Wichita State doesn’t have a football program, its baseball and basketball programs have flourished. The baseball program has been one of the most successful in recent history, winning the 1989 College World Series and finishing second in 1982, 1991, and 1993. The basketball program reached the Final Four in 1965, Elite Eight in 1981 and Sweet Sixteen in 2006. Of the program’s seven infractions, perhaps the most disheartening one occurred in 1982, not long after the team had reached the Elite Eight. Violations involving the promises of cash and airline tickets resulted in the stripping of two basketball scholarships over two seasons and the program’s ban from the NCAA tournament and NIT. At the time the penalties were imposed, Wichita State led the NCAA in major infractions.
8. Wisconsin — Seven Major Infractions: Just months after its basketball program reached the Final Four in 2000, the Wisconsin athletic department was embroiled in controversy. Twenty-six football players were suspended prior to the season opener after the NCAA uncovered that members of the Badgers’ football and basketball teams were given special credit arrangements at a shoe store. A year later, Wisconsin began serving five years of probation, which included scholarship reductions in both football and basketball, for giving recruiting inducements and extra benefits and its overall failure to properly monitor its athletic program. The Badgers have managed to survive the last decade without any other major violations, and the football and basketball programs have enjoyed consistent success.
9. Florida State — Seven Major Infractions: Former rival coach Steve Spurrier once referred to FSU as Free Shoes University, a zinger derived from a 1993 scandal in which nine Florida State players went on an agent-funded shopping spree at Foot Locker. Six years later, also during a national championship run, all-American wide receiver Peter Warrick and Laveranues Coles were charged with felony grand theft for receiving $412.38-worth of clothes from a Dillard’s cashier — they only paid $21.40. Warrick was suspended for two games and Coles from thrown off the team. In 2009, Bobby Bowden was forced to vacate 12 victories because of an academic cheating scandal that also involved the men’s and women’s basketball, baseball, softball and men’s track and field programs — a 2007 men’s track national championship was vacated as well. The penalties ensured Bowden wouldn’t catch Joe Paterno as the FBS’s all-time winningest coach.
10. Memphis — Seven Major Infractions: The good feelings that accompanied Memphis State’s 1985 Final Four run diminished in the ensuing years as karma, tragedy and bad luck befell various member of the team and coaching staff. Head coach Dana Kirk was fired in 1986 after the NCAA uncovered recruiting violations and vacated the 1985 Final Four appearance. He later served a prison term for tax evasion, a crime he committed while he served as the head coach. Star center William Bedford was drafted sixth overall in the 1986 NBA draft, but his career was derailed by drug addiction, and he’s currently serving a 10-year prison sentence. Reserve guard Aaron Price was killed in a carjacking in 1998. Small forward Baskerville Holmes committed a murder-suicide in 1997. Assistant coach Larry Finch suffered a series of strokes that have left him debilitated. All of that was forgotten in 2008, however, when John Calipari had the Tigers positioned to win the national title. But that run was vacated by the NCAA in 2009, as Memphis was given three years of probation for Derrick Rose’s fraudulent SAT score and the $1,700 in free travel and lodging provided to his brother. Before penalties were levied, Calipari bolted to Kentucky, which could soon find its way on this list — the athletic program has six major infractions and the basketball program narrowly escaped the death penalty in 1989.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Schlabach (who never misses a chance to take a shot at anything Big 10-related) actually summed up the Buckeye point of view pretty well. As long as Tressel keeps beating Michigan, he's a made man.
....that, & making boatloads of revenue for the Ohio St. program guarantees his job security. Sweatervest is neither a sleazeball nor the poster boy for a class act BCS program, just an effective fundraiser, & isn't that what actually counts in bigtime college FB? If he deserves congrats for anything IMO it's for getting the monkey of unable to win the big one off his back with recent bowl game performances, fell short of the NC since they beat Miami in OT some yrs back, but that's one title that's very difficult to repeat, as Texas, Bama, Oklahoma, USC, etc. all know too well, & it's one brass ring that is very difficult to grab.

The press conference was apparently an attempt to minimize & belittle the charges, but the accumulation of the minor infractions seems, as I said, to be overwhelming in the last decade. It has to raise the question of just what degree of self-policing Tressel is doing when you look at that big picture over time.

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Old 03-09-2011, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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That's all well and good, but keylime's attempt at sweeping everything under the rug by saying that, "every team commits violations" is ridiculous when OSU leads the country in secondary violations in the past decade. Obviously, not everyone commits that many.
they lead the country in self-reported violations is what. we have more student athletes than any school except like UCLA or something too which kinda doesn't help that number.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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An article from yahoo

"3. Tressel has a history of high profile players receiving improper benefits on his watch. Before Terrelle Pryor and his classmates, there was Troy Smith; before Troy Smith, there was Maurice Clarett; before Maurice Clarett, there was Tressel's star quarterback at Youngstown State, Ray Isaac. Tressel was able to successful distance himself from each of those cases, but they demonstrate a pattern that undermines any appeal to an honest, one-time lapse of judgment."
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Pryor sold his stuff to a Tattoo Parlor, Clarett lied on a police report. I don't think those are receiving improper benefits. Clarett was a little bit of a crazy person, he didn't break NCAA rules, he thought he could leave for the draft after one season and went to jail. Smith received money from a booster and screwed up, he was really the only one. Love how Yahoo gets the facts so right there. Ira Guilford and Louis Irizarry got arrested for mugging old people too, why not mention them who also got in trouble but didn't receive improper benefits? I don't see what any of this has to do with Tressel, he's not the kids and the kids who screwed up were punished.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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they lead the country in self-reported violations is what. we have more student athletes than any school except like UCLA or something too which kinda doesn't help that number.
How do you have more student athletes on your football team? The scholarship limit is 85 and the overall limit is 110 with walk-ons anywhere you go. It doesn't depend on student body size.

Try again.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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How do you have more student athletes on your football team? The scholarship limit is 85 and the overall limit is 110 with walk-ons anywhere you go. It doesn't depend on student body size.

Try again.
I think his point is that Ohio State is a big deal in a ton of sports and as a result it at least increases the potential for more violations. Texas and Stanford would be in a similar situation.
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An article from yahoo

"3. Tressel has a history of high profile players receiving improper benefits on his watch. Before Terrelle Pryor and his classmates, there was Troy Smith; before Troy Smith, there was Maurice Clarett; before Maurice Clarett, there was Tressel's star quarterback at Youngstown State, Ray Isaac. Tressel was able to successful distance himself from each of those cases, but they demonstrate a pattern that undermines any appeal to an honest, one-time lapse of judgment."
Any mention of Maurice Clarett should enhance Tressel's reputation if it does anything. Despite all of the incredibly dumb **** Clarett has done, Tressel reached out to him, even when he was in jail to get him back in school to finish out his degree.

How many coaches would go that far for a kid? If this is the SEC, they will burn you in a heartbeat if you don't produce.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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How do you have more student athletes on your football team? The scholarship limit is 85 and the overall limit is 110 with walk-ons anywhere you go. It doesn't depend on student body size.

Try again.
i was referring to the the entire atheltics program as a whole, not just the football team....and these "violations" that OSU is self-reporting are things like coaches giving kids rides across campus and things like that that most people don't even realize are violations. If you email a recruit who is a junior in high school, technically that is a violation.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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i was referring to the the entire atheltics program as a whole, not just the football team
Every sport has scholarship limits and walk-on limits. Your argument is invalid.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/117626723.html
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Every sport has scholarship limits and walk-on limits. Your argument is invalid.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/117626723.html
You're much smarter than this.

How many sports does Ohio State offer compared to the average division university?
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