PFW "Clobbers" Cam Newton

[nepg]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown

I didn't realize that a lot of you guys were such wimps. The race card is lame and inexcusable. This is not the Warren Moon era. This is a huge multi-billion dollar business and these athletes are a huge investment for these giant corporations.

They're not billion dollar investments to hack sportswriters. I avoid the race issue as much as I can, especially when it comes to QBs, but the feeling that some of the things being written about Newton are subconsciously (i.e. people aren't thinking about what they're writing or why they're writing it) racially driven is just way too strong this time around. He's getting all of the black QB stereotypes applied to him while a white player coming out of a similar offense who played horrible by comparison against lesser competition is being lauded as the "clear cut best QB in the draft."

But it boils down to this: Would you trust that this guy is going to make the best decisions on and off of the field? He's got a lot of strikes in both areas. Like I said, he's a fantastic athlete, but that doesn't make you an NFL QB. Lots of studying, practice, and the ability to make good decisions under pressure turn a good athlete a great NFL QB.

Newton made much better decisions with the football on the field than Gabbert did. And that one's not even close.

[Complex]

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

And because his receivers and passing offense are horse****.
Where's Dwayne Jarrett anyway?

Yeah because Sam Bradford's WRs were All-Pro before he got to the Rams. Remember most "experts" said Jimmy Clausen was Pro ready.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by nepg

They're not billion dollar investments to hack sportswriters. I avoid the race issue as much as I can, especially when it comes to QBs, but the feeling that some of the things being written about Newton are subconsciously (i.e. people aren't thinking about what they're writing or why they're writing it) racially driven is just way too strong this time around. He's getting all of the black QB stereotypes applied to him while a white player coming out of a similar offense who played horrible by comparison against lesser competition is being lauded as the "clear cut best QB in the draft."

Newton made much better decisions with the football on the field than Gabbert did. And that one's not even close.

you've like, followed the draft before, right? like, even earlier this year, when jake locker was the consensus #1 overall, until he spent a year as the consensus #1 and people actually watched him playing? like how gabbert wasn't even expected to be part of this class, so no one was really paying any attention until after the season was over? it's called, "draft coverage" and the basic idea hasn't changed in like, a decade. guys who the media have been paying attention, and who are leading an undefeated team generate more criticism than guys playing for mediocre teams, who aren't expected to come out.

but yeah, it's just because newton is black. it's the same reason why everyone calls russell lazy, right? because he's black? or why the media and fans in general universally hate vick and called him a garbage, stupid quarterback all season, right?

the race argument remains the lazy way out of actually rebutting any argument about newton.

and to be totally honest, i'm getting a bit sick of being called a racist, simply because i disagree with some of you. if that's the best defense you can come up with you really don't have any business discussing, well, anything where someone might hear you.

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by nepg

They're not billion dollar investments to hack sportswriters. I avoid the race issue as much as I can, especially when it comes to QBs, but the feeling that some of the things being written about Newton are subconsciously (i.e. people aren't thinking about what they're writing or why they're writing it) racially driven is just way too strong this time around. He's getting all of the black QB stereotypes applied to him while a white player coming out of a similar offense who played horrible by comparison against lesser competition is being lauded as the "clear cut best QB in the draft."



Newton made much better decisions with the football on the field than Gabbert did. And that one's not even close.

So you are a psychic? You know what people are subconsciously thinking? That is amazing.

You are way out of line. Completely. People scrambling behind Warren Moon's words are hilariously misguided. Race baiting is a classic diversionary tactic, and is extremely shameful when applied in situations like this.

'm disappointed that you are one of them because I find you to be otherwise rational.

[nepg]

No. You're trying to put thoughts and words into what I'm saying. I didn't say anything about off-the-field stuff nor did I call anyone racist.

I said there definitely seems to be some racial stereotyping with Newton as a player, especially when you look at how people are treating Gabbert as a player.

Newton was quite obviously the better QB in a similar offense, was a great decision-maker with the football, and was obviously the leader of the Auburn Tigers football team. Cam has equal or better mechanics when compared to Gabbert, has a better arm, is a better athlete, and demonstrated better on-field intangibles. Yet Cam is somehow some dum dum project bust and Gabbert is the next coming...? How the **** does that work? Only explanation is that people are giving Cam the stereotypical athletic black QB treatment.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown

So you are a psychic? You know what people are subconsciously thinking? That is amazing.

You are way out of line. Completely. People scrambling behind Warren Moon's words are hilariously misguided. Race baiting is a classic diversionary tactic, and is extremely shameful when applied in situations like this.

'm disappointed that you are one of them because I find you to be otherwise rational.

I say subconciously because I don't believe people are doing it on purpose, but they're doing it. What is being diverted? I'm talking football here, and ****'s not adding up.

[NotRickJames]

Originally Posted by nepg

No. You're trying to put thoughts and words into what I'm saying. I didn't say anything about off-the-field stuff nor did I call anyone racist.

I said there definitely seems to be some racial stereotyping with Newton as a player, especially when you look at how people are treating Gabbert as a player.

Newton was quite obviously the better QB in a similar offense, was a great decision-maker with the football, and was obviously the leader of the Auburn Tigers football team. Cam has equal or better mechanics when compared to Gabbert, has a better arm, is a better athlete, and demonstrated better on-field intangibles. Yet Cam is somehow some dum dum project bust and Gabbert is the next coming...? How the **** does that work? Only explanation is that people are giving Cam the stereotypical athletic black QB treatment.

A lot of people have Gabbert penciled as a bust & a lot of people think Newton is better. There isn't an agenda against Cam.

What do you mean by sterotypical black QB treatment, lol?

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by NotRickJames

A lot of people have Gabbert penciled as a bust & a lot of people think Newton is better. There isn't an agenda against Cam.

What do you mean by sterotypical black QB treatment, lol?

IMO as a Black pro prospect at QB, you can be viewed as 'too athletic', and the more gifted a runner you are, the more some people assume you can't do work from inside the pocket.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by nepg

Only explanation is that people are giving Cam the stereotypical athletic black QB treatment.

yeah, you know, that and the off field stuff that's consumed most of this thread. but sure, it's just because he's black. let me know when there are serious rumors that gabbert was paid to attend missouri.

[GaMeTiMe]

The black QB stuff is true. There's only been one black QB to win a Super Bowl for a reason, I'm sorry to say. It's not racism, it's fact. Newton doesn't exactly come across as someone who's going to study defenses and know what the other team is going to do pre-snap on a consistent basis.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by GaMeTiMe

The black QB stuff is true. There's only been one black QB to win a Super Bowl for a reason, I'm sorry to say. It's not racism, it's fact. Newton doesn't exactly come across as someone who's going to study defenses and know what the other team is going to do pre-snap on a consistent basis.

that's the most baseless thing anyone has ever posted on this board. congratulations, you've just made everyone stupider.

[NotRickJames]

Originally Posted by GaMeTiMe

The black QB stuff is true. There's only been one black QB to win a Super Bowl for a reason, I'm sorry to say. It's not racism, it's fact. Newton doesn't exactly come across as someone who's going to study defenses and know what the other team is going to do pre-snap on a consistent basis.

[GaMeTiMe]

Originally Posted by NotRickJames

That's pretty funny, but I have no idea what it's supposed to mean

[PossibleCabbage]

I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL... but going easy on Cam Newton in the evaluation process isn't going to make that happen. In fact, going easy on him most likely makes that less likely to happen.

Evaluating him harshly, but fairly so that he's going into the NFL with reasonable expectations and reasonable expectations for himself is probably the best way for him to become eventually successful.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by njx9

yeah, you know, that and the off field stuff that's consumed most of this thread. but sure, it's just because he's black. let me know when there are serious rumors that gabbert was paid to attend missouri.

I'm talking when people are breaking down the players on the field, not the people off it (as I've said...repeatedly).

It's funny to me to see people say Cam Newton won't be able to read a defense or make the right decision under pressure in the NFL...and then use that as a basis to put Gabbert above him... As if there was any shred of evidence that Gabbert can make good decisions under pressure and as if there isn't a stack of 2010-11 film to show that Cam Newton can.

As far as off-field issues... What are you going to do about Cam Newton's past? Every little thing he's done that isn't perfect has been scrutinized. He's been treated like a thug. Was he a prima donna athlete that didn't realize the position he was in and made some stupid decisions? Hell yeah. But he's no thug.

I'd be far more concerned with Gabbert's skiddishness than Newton's off-field life.

The only thing with Newton is if teams think he will continue to mature and work on his craft. On the field, there's not much to dislike.

[Wrathman]

Gabbert did a great job in his chalkboard sessions at the combine while Newton didn't (to be kind) per several people who reported on that. The natural leader among all the quarterbacks at the combine was said to be Gabbert...even though Newton was there as well. We've seen the Wonderlic scores favor Gabbert by 50% more than what Newton scored.

There are pros and cons to each QB. The above reasons could be reasonably used to put together a case that Gabbert is the more intelligent player and we've not touched on the stupidity exhibited off the field. Or this could all be ignored and one could run straight to the race card.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage

I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL... but going easy on Cam Newton in the evaluation process isn't going to make that happen. In fact, going easy on him most likely makes that less likely to happen.

Evaluating him harshly, but fairly so that he's going into the NFL with reasonable expectations and reasonable expectations for himself is probably the best way for him to become eventually successful.

That's the problem. They're not doing it fairly. You look at the film, and you see how Newton handles himself on the field compared to Gabbert... You see the split-second decisions Newton makes under pressure compared to the ones Gabbert makes...and you see the difference between a National Championship and the Insight Bowl loser.

I don't really care if you say you don't think Newton can read defenses and make decisions under pressure in the NFL. But when you turn around and say that Gabbert can. That just doesn't make sense.

[Complex]

Originally Posted by Wrathman

Gabbert did a great job in his chalkboard sessions at the combine while Newton didn't (to be kind) per several people who reported on that. The natural leader among all the quarterbacks at the combine was said to be Gabbert...even though Newton was there as well. We've seen the Wonderlic scores favor Gabbert by 50% more than what Newton scored.

There are pros and cons to each QB. The above reasons could be reasonably used to put together a case that Gabbert is the more intelligent player and we've not touched on the stupidity exhibited off the field. Or this could all be ignored and one could run straight to the race card.

Who said all this? IDK remember hearing any of that besides Gabbert doing well in the chalkboard session.

[Wrathman]

Originally Posted by Complex

Who said all this? IDK remember hearing any of that besides Gabbert doing well in the chalkboard session.

I don't recall. I look at numerous sites every day, so I would not be able to pin this down easily. I would doubt (from memory) that all of what you highlighted came from the same source, but I suppose it's possible.

[Brown Leader]

Originally Posted by GaMeTiMe

That's pretty funny, but I have no idea what it's supposed to mean

[Brothgar]

Originally Posted by Wrathman

I don't recall. I look at numerous sites every day, so I would not be able to pin this down easily. I would doubt (from memory) that all of what you highlighted came from the same source, but I suppose it's possible.

I've not read any source (outside one which I don't find to be reliable) who said that Cam didn't do well in the chalk talk. Although, the feelings were mixed about his interviews some loved him some hated him. Everyone loved Gabbert apparently. But to come to the rest of the Newton vs Gabbert thing.

Is some of the bad talk based on race? On some teams sure. But for the most part no and I would doubt that this is true in the media. But I also believe that most of the personality knocks on cam are extrapolations of the off the field issues. I don't think Cam is being called out by team mates or coaches.

[PossibleCabbage]

Originally Posted by nepg

That's the problem. They're not doing it fairly. You look at the film, and you see how Newton handles himself on the field compared to Gabbert... You see the split-second decisions Newton makes under pressure compared to the ones Gabbert makes...and you see the difference between a National Championship and the Insight Bowl loser.

I don't really care if you say you don't think Newton can read defenses and make decisions under pressure in the NFL. But when you turn around and say that Gabbert can. That just doesn't make sense.

I honestly don't see what Blaine Gabbert has to do with how one evaluated Cam Newton? If you put a gun to my head, I wouldn't bet on either guy to be a successful NFL QB. If you made me pick one, I'd probably go with Gabbert but that has more to do with the off-the-field stuff and Newton's self-inflicted ascension to iconhood than anything Gabbert did or didn't do. One-read spread guys can adapt to the NFL, but it's pretty hard to project whether they can or can't. Everything else being equal I'd rather have QB from a pro-ready offense, but I wouldn't entirely rule out a more talented player just because he's a spread guy.

In my personal opinion, the top QBs in this draft are easily capable of getting more than a handful of coaches and GMs fired. I'm sure glad my team lacks both the position and the need that would convince them to draft one.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage

I honestly don't see what Blaine Gabbert has to do with how one evaluated Cam Newton? If you put a gun to my head, I wouldn't bet on either guy to be a successful NFL QB. If you made me pick one, I'd probably go with Gabbert but that has more to do with the off-the-field stuff and Newton's self-inflicted ascension to iconhood than anything Gabbert did or didn't do. One-read spread guys can adapt to the NFL, but it's pretty hard to project whether they can or can't. Everything else being equal I'd rather have QB from a pro-ready offense, but I wouldn't entirely rule out a more talented player just because he's a spread guy.

???

They're both spread guys. That's the point. Cam Newton was the much better QB in the same style of offense. He made better, quicker decisions, he used the pocket better, and he threw the ball better.

I understand that the off-field stuff is a concern for many, but that shouldn't be affecting the evaluation of the player on film...which it clearly has when you see people gushing about how smart Gabbert is and then questioning whether Cam Newton can transition to the NFL when, on the field and on film, it's very clear that Newton is the more intelligent football player.

And I like Gabbert, and I think this is a great QB class. You've got 4 guys with amazing potential to be franchise QBs and a 5th (CK) who could become one pretty easily.

[Scott Wright]

Originally Posted by nepg

They're both spread guys. That's the point. Cam Newton was the much better QB in the same style of offense.

That might be technically true, but the reason Newton was arguably better was because of his running ability, which isn't going to translate to the NFL. On a 1-10 scale, I'd much rather have a "7" Gabbert in a spread system where he primarily threw the ball than a "9" Newton in one where he primarily ran. Newton looked at one option and if covered he just ran.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage

I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL....

^ Why is that? ^

Would you also like to see more white cornerbacks and running backs in the NFL?

Andre Ware
Akili Smith
Byron Leftwich
Daunte Culpepper
Donovan McNabb
Jamarcus Russell
Jason Campbell
Vince Young
Tarvaris Jackson
Kordell Stewart
Steve McNair
Randall Cunningham
Michael Vick

All these guys were 1st round picks except T-Jack, Cunningham & Kordell who all went in round 2.

Remember, scouts somehow moved the athletic QB Spergon Wynn ahead of Tom Brady in the 2000 draft. Think there was some racism involved there?

Show me the white RBs and CBs taken in the first round since Warren Moon left the league........ So, who should be playing the race card?

Now Tebow ran his offense at Florida more successfully (and longer) than Newton did at Auburn, same conference.
Tebow was ripped to shreds for his throwing motion, and ability to transition to an NFL offense. His character was as good as it gets though, and he was a proven winner and great teammate.
Still, he was drafted lower than Cam Newton will be... yet both guys were disected like a test-subject. That's just how it is... there are negatives said about every single prospect from Aaron Rodgers to Patrick Peterson.
And as far as character and quick release go, Newton offers plenty of reasons for people to red-flag him.