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Old 03-31-2011, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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My guess is Warren Moon is putting the Titans in the unenviable position of having to be picking 8th and staring at Cam Newton, who i would guess they dont want. Tennessee is probably hoping for someone at the top of the draft to be the ones that pick Newton.
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Old 03-31-2011, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown View Post

You mean, that respect part for McCoy where he dropped into the 3rd round despite being the one of the winningest and most accurate QBs ever, Warren?
Fell? Please; McCoy was short with an average arm. He went where he should have gone; he never had top-end NFL tools.
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Old 03-31-2011, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
they should tell him that this isn't houston and he can go **** himself. seriously. warren moon is an idiot.
The Titans did have pretty much the whole entourage here in Seattle yesterday and it wasnt for our ###### weather.
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Old 03-31-2011, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Warren Moon went though a lot as a black qb in his era, I think he get's a pass.

However as many people have said I think his comments were completely out of hand.
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by billybeejr View Post

However as many people have said I think his comments were completely out of hand.
How were they out of hand? He's talking about the MEDIA btw...he's not suggesting that NFL teams are being racist; he is stating that the media-driven attacks that have persisted for months now are race driven...which they absolutely could be.
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
that's absolute ******* drivel and you know it.
You cant be serious?

The media portrayed UNLV vs. Duke back in the early 90's as "GOOD vs. EVIL"...because UNLV was a team made up of inner-city black kids; all of whom were constantly being reported as being "thugs". Same thing with the Fab5 in Michigan. Yeah; we're a lot further past that in 2011 but you're still talking about a bunch of old white dudes who have convinced themselves that Newton took money (which no one proved) and are now going to use that to attack every aspect of him. He's "fake" because they think he took money. He's "selfish" because they think he took money.

I think it can easily be argued that the reason everyone thinks he took money is because he is black. If this was a clean-cut white guy from the midwest I have a hard time believing that the attacks would have persisted this long.
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by metafour View Post
You cant be serious?

The media portrayed UNLV vs. Duke back in the early 90's as "GOOD vs. EVIL"...because UNLV was a team made up of inner-city black kids; all of whom were constantly being reported as being "thugs". Same thing with the Fab5 in Michigan. Yeah; we're a lot further past that in 2011 but you're still talking about a bunch of old white dudes who have convinced themselves that Newton took money (which no one proved) and are now going to use that to attack every aspect of him. He's "fake" because they think he took money. He's "selfish" because they think he took money.

I think it can easily be argued that the reason everyone thinks he took money is because he is black. If this was a clean-cut white guy from the midwest I have a hard time believing that the attacks would have persisted this long.


Ryan Mallett would probably disagree. The thing with Newton is he's been talked about as a top 5 pick, if he were a second rounder i would guess nobody would really care about any baggage.
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by metafour View Post
Fell? Please; McCoy was short with an average arm. He went where he should have gone; he never had top-end NFL tools.
McCoy fell to the third round in large part because he was short with an average arm. He was never considered to be a top QB prospect, which is why he didn't receive the scrutiny that top QB prospects receive, which is why "Colt McCoy can't adapt from the spread offense" wasn't really anybody's talking point, it was just another thing on the list of hurdles McCoy had to overcome.

The media simply isn't that critical about third round QBs, or about second round QBs who nobody thinks may go in the first round. They care about, because casual NFL fans care about, potential first round QBs.
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Old 03-31-2011, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by metafour View Post
I think it can easily be argued that the reason everyone thinks he took money is because he is black. If this was a clean-cut white guy from the midwest I have a hard time believing that the attacks would have persisted this long.
Yup, I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that it is widely known that many college players have accepted money. It has everything to do with race.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ent/index.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2537332
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souther...otball_scandal
http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2011...ain-about.html
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown View Post
I didn't realize that a lot of you guys were such wimps. The race card is lame and inexcusable. This is not the Warren Moon era. This is a huge multi-billion dollar business and these athletes are a huge investment for these giant corporations.
They're not billion dollar investments to hack sportswriters. I avoid the race issue as much as I can, especially when it comes to QBs, but the feeling that some of the things being written about Newton are subconsciously (i.e. people aren't thinking about what they're writing or why they're writing it) racially driven is just way too strong this time around. He's getting all of the black QB stereotypes applied to him while a white player coming out of a similar offense who played horrible by comparison against lesser competition is being lauded as the "clear cut best QB in the draft."

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But it boils down to this: Would you trust that this guy is going to make the best decisions on and off of the field? He's got a lot of strikes in both areas. Like I said, he's a fantastic athlete, but that doesn't make you an NFL QB. Lots of studying, practice, and the ability to make good decisions under pressure turn a good athlete a great NFL QB.
Newton made much better decisions with the football on the field than Gabbert did. And that one's not even close.
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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And because his receivers and passing offense are horse****.
Where's Dwayne Jarrett anyway?
Yeah because Sam Bradford's WRs were All-Pro before he got to the Rams. Remember most "experts" said Jimmy Clausen was Pro ready.
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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They're not billion dollar investments to hack sportswriters. I avoid the race issue as much as I can, especially when it comes to QBs, but the feeling that some of the things being written about Newton are subconsciously (i.e. people aren't thinking about what they're writing or why they're writing it) racially driven is just way too strong this time around. He's getting all of the black QB stereotypes applied to him while a white player coming out of a similar offense who played horrible by comparison against lesser competition is being lauded as the "clear cut best QB in the draft."



Newton made much better decisions with the football on the field than Gabbert did. And that one's not even close.
So you are a psychic? You know what people are subconsciously thinking? That is amazing.

You are way out of line. Completely. People scrambling behind Warren Moon's words are hilariously misguided. Race baiting is a classic diversionary tactic, and is extremely shameful when applied in situations like this.

'm disappointed that you are one of them because I find you to be otherwise rational.
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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No. You're trying to put thoughts and words into what I'm saying. I didn't say anything about off-the-field stuff nor did I call anyone racist.

I said there definitely seems to be some racial stereotyping with Newton as a player, especially when you look at how people are treating Gabbert as a player.

Newton was quite obviously the better QB in a similar offense, was a great decision-maker with the football, and was obviously the leader of the Auburn Tigers football team. Cam has equal or better mechanics when compared to Gabbert, has a better arm, is a better athlete, and demonstrated better on-field intangibles. Yet Cam is somehow some dum dum project bust and Gabbert is the next coming...? How the **** does that work? Only explanation is that people are giving Cam the stereotypical athletic black QB treatment.
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown View Post
So you are a psychic? You know what people are subconsciously thinking? That is amazing.

You are way out of line. Completely. People scrambling behind Warren Moon's words are hilariously misguided. Race baiting is a classic diversionary tactic, and is extremely shameful when applied in situations like this.

'm disappointed that you are one of them because I find you to be otherwise rational.
I say subconciously because I don't believe people are doing it on purpose, but they're doing it. What is being diverted? I'm talking football here, and ****'s not adding up.
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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No. You're trying to put thoughts and words into what I'm saying. I didn't say anything about off-the-field stuff nor did I call anyone racist.

I said there definitely seems to be some racial stereotyping with Newton as a player, especially when you look at how people are treating Gabbert as a player.

Newton was quite obviously the better QB in a similar offense, was a great decision-maker with the football, and was obviously the leader of the Auburn Tigers football team. Cam has equal or better mechanics when compared to Gabbert, has a better arm, is a better athlete, and demonstrated better on-field intangibles. Yet Cam is somehow some dum dum project bust and Gabbert is the next coming...? How the **** does that work? Only explanation is that people are giving Cam the stereotypical athletic black QB treatment.
A lot of people have Gabbert penciled as a bust & a lot of people think Newton is better. There isn't an agenda against Cam.

What do you mean by sterotypical black QB treatment, lol?
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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A lot of people have Gabbert penciled as a bust & a lot of people think Newton is better. There isn't an agenda against Cam.

What do you mean by sterotypical black QB treatment, lol?
IMO as a Black pro prospect at QB, you can be viewed as 'too athletic', and the more gifted a runner you are, the more some people assume you can't do work from inside the pocket.
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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The black QB stuff is true. There's only been one black QB to win a Super Bowl for a reason, I'm sorry to say. It's not racism, it's fact. Newton doesn't exactly come across as someone who's going to study defenses and know what the other team is going to do pre-snap on a consistent basis.
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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The black QB stuff is true. There's only been one black QB to win a Super Bowl for a reason, I'm sorry to say. It's not racism, it's fact. Newton doesn't exactly come across as someone who's going to study defenses and know what the other team is going to do pre-snap on a consistent basis.
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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That's pretty funny, but I have no idea what it's supposed to mean
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:21 PM    (permalink
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I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL... but going easy on Cam Newton in the evaluation process isn't going to make that happen. In fact, going easy on him most likely makes that less likely to happen.

Evaluating him harshly, but fairly so that he's going into the NFL with reasonable expectations and reasonable expectations for himself is probably the best way for him to become eventually successful.
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
yeah, you know, that and the off field stuff that's consumed most of this thread. but sure, it's just because he's black. let me know when there are serious rumors that gabbert was paid to attend missouri.
I'm talking when people are breaking down the players on the field, not the people off it (as I've said...repeatedly).

It's funny to me to see people say Cam Newton won't be able to read a defense or make the right decision under pressure in the NFL...and then use that as a basis to put Gabbert above him... As if there was any shred of evidence that Gabbert can make good decisions under pressure and as if there isn't a stack of 2010-11 film to show that Cam Newton can.

As far as off-field issues... What are you going to do about Cam Newton's past? Every little thing he's done that isn't perfect has been scrutinized. He's been treated like a thug. Was he a prima donna athlete that didn't realize the position he was in and made some stupid decisions? Hell yeah. But he's no thug.

I'd be far more concerned with Gabbert's skiddishness than Newton's off-field life.

The only thing with Newton is if teams think he will continue to mature and work on his craft. On the field, there's not much to dislike.
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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Gabbert did a great job in his chalkboard sessions at the combine while Newton didn't (to be kind) per several people who reported on that. The natural leader among all the quarterbacks at the combine was said to be Gabbert...even though Newton was there as well. We've seen the Wonderlic scores favor Gabbert by 50% more than what Newton scored.

There are pros and cons to each QB. The above reasons could be reasonably used to put together a case that Gabbert is the more intelligent player and we've not touched on the stupidity exhibited off the field. Or this could all be ignored and one could run straight to the race card.
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL... but going easy on Cam Newton in the evaluation process isn't going to make that happen. In fact, going easy on him most likely makes that less likely to happen.

Evaluating him harshly, but fairly so that he's going into the NFL with reasonable expectations and reasonable expectations for himself is probably the best way for him to become eventually successful.
That's the problem. They're not doing it fairly. You look at the film, and you see how Newton handles himself on the field compared to Gabbert... You see the split-second decisions Newton makes under pressure compared to the ones Gabbert makes...and you see the difference between a National Championship and the Insight Bowl loser.

I don't really care if you say you don't think Newton can read defenses and make decisions under pressure in the NFL. But when you turn around and say that Gabbert can. That just doesn't make sense.
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:03 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Wrathman View Post
Gabbert did a great job in his chalkboard sessions at the combine while Newton didn't (to be kind) per several people who reported on that. The natural leader among all the quarterbacks at the combine was said to be Gabbert...even though Newton was there as well. We've seen the Wonderlic scores favor Gabbert by 50% more than what Newton scored.

There are pros and cons to each QB. The above reasons could be reasonably used to put together a case that Gabbert is the more intelligent player and we've not touched on the stupidity exhibited off the field. Or this could all be ignored and one could run straight to the race card.
Who said all this? IDK remember hearing any of that besides Gabbert doing well in the chalkboard session.
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:24 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Complex View Post
Who said all this? IDK remember hearing any of that besides Gabbert doing well in the chalkboard session.
I don't recall. I look at numerous sites every day, so I would not be able to pin this down easily. I would doubt (from memory) that all of what you highlighted came from the same source, but I suppose it's possible.
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