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Old 04-19-2011, 11:47 AM    (permalink
Halsey
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You can listen to and respect the opinion of others and still form your own opinions. The media doesn't have an agenda every single time they talk about a prospect, except to try to hold your attention.
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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That same guy that said
after signing future HOF Scott Mitchell



I was talking w/ my cousin the other day, and we both agree Billick would still be a good coach in the NFL today if he wasnt such a arrogant **** face.
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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You can listen to and respect the opinion of others and still form your own opinions. The media doesn't have an agenda every single time they talk about a prospect, except to try to hold your attention.
This^^^. Sort of.

More than anything that most of us including myself forget, is that channels like NFLN most of all are trying to attract eyeballs than give a cogent analysis per se of the top draft prospects.

They have in-depth program meetings before they go on the air, and it's not coincidental that on-air hosts seem to always be 'split' about prospects. You rarely see them go on air and have them all agree about a player's pro potential, or have the same exact list of the top prospects at a given position.

Sometimes it's genuine IMO, often I think it's manufactured to produce a better show.

Controversy and divergent opinions generates ratings, always.
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Yahoo Sports article - "Gabbert has near photographic memory.". Missouri coachs call him the smartest player they have had in the program.
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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seriously, you need to add the location "Blaine Gabbert's Nutsack" to your info....
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Thanks jerks, I have an exam tomorrow and reading this lowered my IQ by 14 points. Dicks.
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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Yahoo Sports article - "Gabbert has near photographic memory.". Missouri coachs call him the smartest player they have had in the program.

LOL!!!

He, Fitzpatrick and Alex Smith should 'friend' each other.

IMO you're selling a car that has all the extras except a functioning motor.

And I question seriously if Gabby is 'smarter' than Chase Daniel.
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Actually, reading his interviews and him breaking down stuff, and seeing/hearing what Chase has to say in his time with New Orleans, I would say Gabbert is smarter. He has an extremely high football IQ. The problem is, I don't know if he can put it all together on the field. If he can't there is always room for smart backups, and then there are coaching gigs. The guy has potential, but seriously, how did he jump to being considered in the top? I would put Locker above him at this point, along with several other quarterbacks. Unless you want a guy that can give you a detailed analysis of what he saw and why he messed up.

Then again I haven't watched that much footage.....yet. I have watched several games, right now instead of taking notes in class I have been watching the Illinois game. I thought the "runs from phantom pressure" was overblown, but watching this, seriously, what is he running from? He winds up running towards defenders at times.

The only thing I can guess besides getting scared is that he doesn't trust his arm? Because on the last play I watched, the receiver he was locked onto was on the right side down the field, so Gabbert runs to his right as well?, without any pressure, then the receiver breaks to the left side of the field, and Gabbert follows him, but this time it is needed because by running to the right he has a defender in his face who breaks free after he had ran towards that side. I don't personally know the route the guy was running because you couldn't really see the receiver until the ball was coming his way, you could barely see him at the top of the screen.

I mean, the guy didn't have the best receivers to work with last year so they might not have been getting separation, along with the fact that the playcalling was horrible at times, with numerous screens to a guy that would be covered by a swarm of defenders with no blockers to set it up, but we are talking about a perfectly clean pocket, he is a tall guy so he should be able to see over his blockers. In the past, there would be more 5 and 10 yard passes that would wind up as huge plays. Last year, not so much with T.J. Moe the only guy really getting a big play, I think a 70 yarder against SDSU. I think he was the biggest playmaker, with the two biggest plays, that play and then a 45 yarder against Texas A&M, that it for passes that went over 40 yards. Alexander had 8 games with 50+ yard reception, mostly yac in 2009.

In this type of offense it is really hard to dissect how he will be as an NFL qb. He is fast for a big guy, has a great arm, but was in an offense that told him to throw mostly horizontal routes under 15 yards. It wasn't the smartest gameplanning imo, you dink and dunk to mimic the run game to set up some big passes. It didn't seem like they ever went vertical.

He is very raw as qb prospect at this point. I don't think he deserves to go in the top.
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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LOL!!!

He, Fitzpatrick and Alex Smith should 'friend' each other.

IMO you're selling a car that has all the extras except a functioning motor.

And I question seriously if Gabby is 'smarter' than Chase Daniel.
Fitzpatrick was the last player taken in his draft year, I think, and he is starting in the NFL. Smith is as well. I doubt there is one quarterback taken in the past 10 years who scored lower than 25 on the Wonderlic and is a starter.
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Fitzpatrick was the last player taken in his draft year, I think, and he is starting in the NFL. Smith is as well. I doubt there is one quarterback taken in the past 10 years who scored lower than 25 on the Wonderlic and is a starter.
Mike Vick for a 100, Alex.
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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Mike Vick for a 100, Alex.
Vick was drafted in April, 2000, I believe. That is 11 years ago.

Oops....2001. Well, nearly 10 years. I'm not even that confident Vick sticks as the starter in Philly. He is a year to year proposition.

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Old 04-19-2011, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Fitzpatrick was the last player taken in his draft year, I think, and he is starting in the NFL. Smith is as well. I doubt there is one quarterback taken in the past 10 years who scored lower than 25 on the Wonderlic and is a starter.
You've been refuted on this several times yet you still come back with this arguement. Even if you weren't all it takes is a very simple google search to find a list of the wonderlick scores of all the starting NFL QBs.

Here is a list of starting NFL QBs (2010 starters) that had a lower than 25 wonderlic score.

24. Jason Campbell 23

25. Brett Favre 22

25. Tim Tebow 22

25. Chad Henne 22

28. Bruce Gradkowski 19

29. Vince Young 15

30. Donovan McNabb 14

30. David Garrard 14

Big Ben got exactly a 25 BTW

Dan Marino got a 15 what a joke of a QB he turned out to be.
Jim Kelly got a 15 too. That guy will never make it to the hall of fame.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.

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Old 04-19-2011, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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EDIT: Nevermind. Beaten to it.
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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You've been refuted on this several times yet you still come back with this arguement. Even if you weren't all it takes is a very simple google search to find a list of the wonderlick scores of all the starting NFL QBs.

Here is a list of starting NFL QBs (2010 starters) that had a lower than 25 wonderlic score.

24. Jason Campbell 23

25. Brett Favre 22

25. Tim Tebow 22

25. Chad Henne 22

28. Bruce Gradkowski 19

29. Vince Young 15

30. Donovan McNabb 14

30. David Garrard 14

Big Ben got exactly a 25 BTW
That is a pretty crappy list. I wouldn't want one of them on my team. Favre is retired, and I give Tebow a pass because he was homeschooled by a missionary Mom.

STUPID is not an asset at the position, any way you slice it. Getting less so by the year. The oldtimers didn't take the test seriously, so their scores mean nothing. Now the quarterbacks do take the test seriously.

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Old 04-19-2011, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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That is a pretty crappy list. The chances of any of them lasting as a starter are slim.

STUPID is not an asset at the position, any way you slice it. Getting less so by the year.
Dan Marino got a 15
Jim Kelly got a 15
Terry Bradshaw 15

Yeah those guys will never make it to the hall of fame.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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"lasting as a starter" when there's TWO multi-year starters on the list? My GOD, your delusions know no bounds, do they?
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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"lasting as a starter" when there's TWO multi-year starters on the list? My GOD, your delusions know no bounds, do they?
It's a CRAP LIST. You're welcome to them all. Living or dead. Along with TOADS like Newton and Locker. Good luck.
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Old 04-19-2011, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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This^^^. Sort of.

More than anything that most of us including myself forget, is that channels like NFLN most of all are trying to attract eyeballs than give a cogent analysis per se of the top draft prospects.

They have in-depth program meetings before they go on the air, and it's not coincidental that on-air hosts seem to always be 'split' about prospects. You rarely see them go on air and have them all agree about a player's pro potential, or have the same exact list of the top prospects at a given position.

Sometimes it's genuine IMO, often I think it's manufactured to produce a better show.

Controversy and divergent opinions generates ratings, always.
I disagree, all scouts and GM's see different things on prospects, some are good at their assessments, many are weak at it but there is always disagreements. It is always in the eye of the beholder.
I don't think it is rehearsed on NFLN at all, they all come from different backgrounds in pro football, so you would expect to see differing opinions on prospects. This isn't a science, it is very subjective based on past experience.
Mayock clearly says he has his position preferences and being a former DB, he sees things in that position that others may not. Baldsinger, was an OLman, and he has strong opinions on that position. Casserly and Lombardi come from player personnel backgrounds.
I see no sign that they rehearse their observations before coming on the set. These aren't actors and it wouldn't come across as real if it was rehearsed.
I think what you are seeing is what a real war room looks like on draft day with one difference, in a real war room, one man has the final say between all the opinions, while on NFLN they all have an equal say and we fans must sort out from among the differing opinions and choose who we want to agree with.
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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I disagree, all scouts and GM's see different things on prospects, some are good at their assessments, many are weak at it but there is always disagreements. It is always in the eye of the beholder.
I don't think it is rehearsed on NFLN at all, they all come from different backgrounds in pro football, so you would expect to see differing opinions on prospects. This isn't a science, it is very subjective based on past experience.
Mayock clearly says he has his position preferences and being a former DB, he sees things in that position that others may not. Baldsinger, was an OLman, and he has strong opinions on that position. Casserly and Lombardi come from player personnel backgrounds.
I see no sign that they rehearse their observations before coming on the set. These aren't actors and it wouldn't come across as real if it was rehearsed.
I think what you are seeing is what a real war room looks like on draft day with one difference, in a real war room, one man has the final say between all the opinions, while on NFLN they all have an equal say and we fans must sort out from among the differing opinions and choose who we want to agree with.
Not saying really that the commentary on NFLN is rehearsed, but I do believe in programming meetings, they are at times instructed to take pro- and con- positions on a prospect.
Most fair minded analysts can give you both a positive AND a negative opinion about any prospect, so instructing a commentator to say something positive about a prospect, and someone else to give a critical assessment of that same player isn't hard to do.

When two analysts are asked to give a top 5 list, and both lists are for the most part entirely different, ALL THE TIME, IMO that's not an accident.

ALL sports shows are 'scripted' to a point.
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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in 2011 the vast majority of starting QBs seem to score at least in the mid 20s on the Wonderlic. You go go back to the 70s and 80s to find exceptions, but if you want to talk 2011 Draft you should take notice that players prepare for the Wonderlic nowadays and take it more serious. Players probably didn't even know what a Wonderlic was in the old days.
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Cool. They wil be able to work together on NFL Network after Gabbert leaves the NFL.
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Not saying really that the commentary on NFLN is rehearsed, but I do believe in programming meetings, they are at times instructed to take pro- and con- positions on a prospect.
Most fair minded analysts can give you both a positive AND a negative opinion about any prospect, so instructing a commentator to say something positive about a prospect, and someone else to give a critical assessment of that same player isn't hard to do.

When two analysts are asked to give a top 5 list, and both lists are for the most part entirely different, ALL THE TIME, IMO that's not an accident.

ALL sports shows are 'scripted' to a point.
I completely disagree, with so many commentators on NFLN talking about the draft, it would be extremely difficult to keep it a secret and if word got out they were fixing the commentary, NFLN would be dead in the water and all the money the NFL invested in the show would be for nothing.
Of course the show is scripted, they give each commentator a script for that day about what the discussion will be about so that each is prepared prior to the discussion, but I see no way the tell them what to say or how to say it.
The simple fact is that there are obviously a # of prospects worthy of being in the 1st tier of players and everybody has their preferences. Sometimes they will all agree and sometimes they will disagree on the order, occasionally they will disagree on a prospect near the top like say Newton, they obviously want opinionated people on the show who have the background to know what they are talking about.
People think teams have a draft board where everybody agrees throughout the league on prospects depending on their schemes, if this were true, NE, Pittsburgh and Indy would be dead on draft day, but it isn't and the better assessors of talent prove every draft, that they know how to rank prospects far better than the chronic bottom feeders.
If I was a betting man, I'd bet you that an awful lot of flops by weak drafting teams weren't even on the better drafting team's draft boards to begins with. The better drafting team must get a good chuckle every time a weak drafting team takes a bum none of the better assessors wanted and leaves a better prospect for them down the line.
I'd be far more suspicious if there was constant agreement about every prospect, the fact that a lot of them don't agree but put up facts to support their reasons really opens up the draft process for me.
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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I think his best fit is to sit behind somebody who is sorta proven. Though I could see him starting for Minnesota.
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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I think his best fit is to sit behind somebody who is sorta proven. Though I could see him starting for Minnesota.
Any of the top Qbs are going to look like aces compared to what they have there in Minnesota. Ideally for the Vikes they draft a QB and then also bring in a McNabb or a Hasselbeck for a year and tudor the new guy.
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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Matt Leinart - 35
Charlie Whitehurst - 33
Charlie Frye - 38
Andrew Walter - 31
Dan Orlovsky - 26
Jason White - 26
Craig Krenzel - 38
Drew Henson - 42
Joey Harrington - 32
Jesse Palmer - 32

Should I keep going? While you say you doubt there's been a starter in the last 10 years with under a 25, there's a **** ton of crap QBs in the last 10 years with over a 25. 25 is such an arbitrary number you just pulled out of your ass and means nothing...
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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Any of the top Qbs are going to look like aces compared to what they have there in Minnesota. Ideally for the Vikes they draft a QB and then also bring in a McNabb or a Hasselbeck for a year and tudor the new guy.
The trouble is that nobody has a clue as to where the FA or trade-able QB's will end up. There is zero guarantee for any team desiring a QB.
IMO, it is definitely going to be a strange draft year with QB's getting pushed up by these facts. Mallett and Locker could now go anywhere in round 1, that's how desperate teams are right now with trades and FA shut down.
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