Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > 2015 NFL Draft Forum

2015 NFL Draft Forum Discuss the 2015 NFL Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-02-2011, 01:51 PM    (permalink
Bosanac01
Team Leader
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,818
Reputation: 1487151
Bosanac01 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bosanac01 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bosanac01 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bosanac01 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bosanac01 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bosanac01 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bosanac01 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bosanac01 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bosanac01 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bosanac01 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bosanac01 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I don't know what the big debate is, but I know Thomas Dimitroff is incapable of making bad moves.


/Thread
__________________

Sig by: BK

02:40 *** Chucky quit #nfldraftcountdown
02:40 <vidae> yay, hes gone
02:40 *** Chucky joined #nfldraftcountdown
02:40 <vidae> aww hes back
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenikz View Post
we all hate you
Bosanac01 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 01:51 PM    (permalink
the_dark_knight
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 677
Reputation: 1
the_dark_knight hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
This argument always baffles me. If Atlanta's roster is so packed with talent, top to bottom that they don't actually have to make draft picks and they're basically obligated to trade away picks... explain to me why teams with better rosters, like New England and Green Bay made 9 and 10 draft picks respectively.

The argument doesn't make sense anyway. How is a team in any way lessened by bringing in guys to compete for the roles of the middle of the roster guys. It's not like Atlanta was incapable of improving at any position other than wide receiver (you have to admit they could use help on defense, too.) Training camp competition makes your team better. You start training camp with 80 guys, no matter how many guys you drafted, and you end up cutting at least 27 of those guys. Personally, I would prefer to end up cutting 27 good players because the rest of my players are even better.
This is a really weak draft, and you're talking about a 13-3 team with a really great core of very young players. There comes a point of diminishing returns, of course you want competition, and you want your team to keep getting better, but in order to step up from a 13-3 team to a big winner in the playoffs you have to have another level of talent. Bringing in late first, 2nd, and 4th rounders weren't going to change that bar at the WR position.

Falcons Roster:
QB: Ryan (star w/ superstar potential), Redman (qualified backup played well when called upon) John Parker Wilson (developmental clipboard guy)
RB: Turner (Pro Bowler), Norwood (crazy injury prone had to be replaced), Snelling (ultra productive backup), Rodgers (just drafted to replace Norwood)
FB: Mughelli (Pro Bowler, best run blocking FB in the NFL) Snelling
TE: Tony (HoFer heading towards the twilight) Peelle(suitable backup, good blocker, solid hands, no big play potential) Nothing else of note.
WR: Roddy (emerging superstar WR), Jenkins (soft, non competitive #2 WR), Douglas (coming back from injury, we'll see if he's 100% this year, not to be relied upon as a #2 for sure) Finneran (retiring), Meirer (showed promise in camp until injured, may not be worth much coming off major knee injury) Weems (Pro Bowl kick return guy, not much of a threat in terms of WR)
OL: Solid across the board, with 2 Pro Bowlers and a 3rd with Pro Bowl potential, LT is still a point of concern

DE: Abe (aging star), Kroy (try hard with super motor, hasn't had great production yet), Anderson (busted #8 overall selection, gives good swing ability) Sidbury (4th round selection with great ability, but unable to see the field other than special teams) Davis (qualified backup) Another area of concern
DT: Babs (one of the most underrated players in the NFL), Jerry (coming back from knee injury, showed great burst towards the end of the season) Peters (stepped in and played great as a 3rd rounder) Walker (had a couple of very nice games, tons of potential)
OLB: Spoon (1st round pick with tons of production before his injuries, looking for big things) Peterson (long in the tooth, yet somehow still a playmaker) Nicolas (great pass rusher, not the best scheme fit, may go in FA) Wire (great depth and ST player)
MLB: Lofton (potential star MLB with Pro Bowl potential, fought through injuries a lot last year) Wire (again great depth here) Dent (3rd round pick for additional depth and ST play)
CB: Robinson (played well but not great, hoping he gets more comfortable this year in his new scheme) Grimes (over achiever to the max) Williams (old, slow, time to go) Franks (flashed against Fitzgerald in the Cardinals game with a pick and pass breakup on the 2 passes thrown his way, should be nickel this year) Owens (showed great potential late in his rookie year, but struggled a bit trying to play nickel last year) Another area that the Falcons could use an upgrade)
S: Decoud (Pro Bowl caliber player) Moore (potential stud SS with tons of playmaking ability) Depth behind is fine


As you can see, there aren't a lot of positions with room for people to just come in.

DE, CB, WR, OLB. Sucks that 3 of the 4 are on defense, but where the Falcons are picking, they don't need more warm bodies, they need difference makers, and if that means getting all the way up to #6 for a WR who can change the face of an offense, so be it.

The issue I'm sure you can see is that it's going to take some big time talents to come in and take positions from the guys even at the question spots, it's going to take a big Free Agent defensive end someone who is polished and understands the game, not another youngster trying to adapt. This team given the schedule is looking like another 11+ win season is on the way, of course barring major injuries.

I know the Falcons aren't a flawless team, but they need to get to that next level, and mid rounders don't get you there, heck, not even many late firsts get you there at skill positions.
the_dark_knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 01:58 PM    (permalink
JBCX
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,118
Reputation: 10781
JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JBCX is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Here's the question you have to ask yourself: How far back will it set the organization if Julio Jones turns out to be nothing more than an average player, or worse yet, busts?

Because no prospect is ever a sure thing. Ever. Julio Jones could easily be a bust, and the consequences for the Falcons would be tremendous in the ensuing years. It'd be like flushing two consecutive years of drafts down the toilet for nothing.
JBCX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 02:18 PM    (permalink
georgiafan
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,583
Reputation: 238030
georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Here's the question you have to ask yourself: How far back will it set the organization if Julio Jones turns out to be nothing more than an average player, or worse yet, busts?

Because no prospect is ever a sure thing. Ever. Julio Jones could easily be a bust, and the consequences for the Falcons would be tremendous in the ensuing years. It'd be like flushing two consecutive years of drafts down the toilet for nothing.
Of course if he is a bust or an average starter it was a terrible move. Thomas D said that this wasnt a move they just thought of 2 days before the draft. He said it was something looked in as much depth as the pick of Ryan at #3. That was when the Ravens offerd a major trade to move up to that spot. Also the front office for me and most fans get the benefit of the doubt after making a bunch of good moves over the past few years.
__________________
georgiafan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 02:57 PM    (permalink
bitonti
DraftBathroom.com
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,051
Reputation: 75432
bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
It'd be like flushing two consecutive years of drafts down the toilet for nothing.
remember Mike Ditka traded his whole draft for Ricky Williams. it was a trade between the Saints and the Redskins

at the time, everyone said what a fool Ditka was... etc.

but now, many years later, look back at those players. the Redskins got no one from the Saints picks. Ricky Williams was in fact the only player of value in the deal.

we all love the draft but we often forget how many of these guys turn out to be completely worthless.
__________________
my shoes hurt

Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

bitonti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 03:32 PM    (permalink
PossibleCabbage
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,094
Reputation: 241113
PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitonti View Post
remember Mike Ditka traded his whole draft for Ricky Williams. it was a trade between the Saints and the Redskins

at the time, everyone said what a fool Ditka was... etc.

but now, many years later, look back at those players. the Redskins got no one from the Saints picks. Ricky Williams was in fact the only player of value in the deal.

we all love the draft but we often forget how many of these guys turn out to be completely worthless.
It's wrong to consider future draft picks as worthless (or worth less), because in the past people have squandered draft picks. The onus on maximizing value for draft picks lies on the team that's making them (that is, the team who receives them in a trade), but just because teams have wasted draft picks in the past doesn't mean we should diminsh the import of acquiring picks.

I mean, sometimes a second round pick gets you Brian Brohm or Pat White, but sometimes a second round pick gets you Anquan Boldin or Maurice Jones-Drew. Sometimes trading back up into the late first gets you Brady Quinn, and sometimes it gets you Clay Matthews. Acquiring a draft pick should simply be judged as "acquiring assets" and if the team in question fails to make good use of the asset, that's on them for drafting poorly, not on them for making the trade.
PossibleCabbage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 03:46 PM    (permalink
bitonti
DraftBathroom.com
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,051
Reputation: 75432
bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bitonti is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
It's wrong to consider future draft picks as worthless (or worth less), because in the past people have squandered draft picks.
true but likewise the Falcons valuation of a blue chip WR over future and later draft picks shouldn't be considered foolish. Quantity over Quality is rarely a sound draft strategy. Quality almost always wins that equation. Another trade up comes to mind the Jets trading up for Darrelle Revis. In retrospect they could have traded all their picks and still came out ahead. In general I like the trade up, I question the trade down. the Browns couldn't use Julio Jones?
__________________
my shoes hurt

Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

bitonti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 04:20 PM    (permalink
CrankthatCrabtree
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 224
Reputation: 19600
CrankthatCrabtree is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrankthatCrabtree is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrankthatCrabtree is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrankthatCrabtree is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrankthatCrabtree is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrankthatCrabtree is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrankthatCrabtree is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrankthatCrabtree is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrankthatCrabtree is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrankthatCrabtree is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrankthatCrabtree is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I love how everyone says how the Falcons are so "close" and such. Sure they had a good regular season, but usually a team needs to at least one playoff game before they get that kind of distinction.
CrankthatCrabtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 04:36 PM    (permalink
PossibleCabbage
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,094
Reputation: 241113
PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Here's something that confuses me about the Julio Jones trade, and I wish a Falcons fan could explain it to me.

If the Falcons were really a young, talented receiver away from being a championship team... why not just wait until free agency starts and sign Sidney Rice. In the worst possible case, Sidney Rice is an RFA and the extent of which it would cost the Falcons to acquire him is a 1 and a 3 next year plus a contract that the Vikings are unwilling to match (possibly by way of poison pill). Jones is only 29 months younger than Rice, barring a rookie wage scale Jones's contract would likely be larger than Rice's, choosing Rice over Jones would net the Falcons between 3 and 5 additional additional (high) draft picks, and Sidney Rice has already learned to play wide receiver effectively in the NFL.

Last edited by PossibleCabbage : 05-02-2011 at 05:03 PM.
PossibleCabbage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 04:47 PM    (permalink
georgiafan
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,583
Reputation: 238030
georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.georgiafan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

That is something that I thought about and I really can't say for sure what the answer is. Maybe the team wasn't as high on Sidney Rice. Of his 4 years in the NFL he has only had one good year and is coming off a injury. Maybe they thought White and another vet like Rice or Fitz could have clashed. I don't see Julio having a problem taking a back seat to guys like Turner, White and Gonzo. I could see someone like Rice having a problem being the #2 WR. We don't know for sure what the money situation would be for the rookie wage scale. If that passes then it would have cost more money for FA like Rice. Either way it's a risky move.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
Here's something that confuses me about the Julio Jones trade, and I wish a Falcons fan could explain it to me.

If the Falcons were really a young, talented receiver away from being a championship team... why not just wait until free agency starts and sign Sidney Rice. In the worst possible case, Sidney Rice is an RFA and the extent of which it would cost the Falcons to acquire him is a 1 and a 3 next year plus a contract that the Vikings are unwilling to match (possibly by way of poison pill). Jones is only 29 months older than Rice, barring a rookie wage scale Jones's contract would likely be larger than Rice's, choosing Rice over Jones would net the Falcons between 3 and 5 additional additional (high) draft picks, and Sidney Rice has already learned to play wide receiver effectively in the NFL.
__________________
georgiafan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 05:36 PM    (permalink
Monomach
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,745
Reputation: 2067101
Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

The cognitive dissonance of the post-draft period and the inevitable method of resolving it never ceases to amaze me.

Best recent examples: first round Tebow, 12th overall Ponder, Austin over Paea, Herschel Walker Julio Jones trade
Monomach is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 05:38 PM    (permalink
the_dark_knight
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 677
Reputation: 1
the_dark_knight hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Here's the question you have to ask yourself: How far back will it set the organization if Julio Jones turns out to be nothing more than an average player, or worse yet, busts?

Because no prospect is ever a sure thing. Ever. Julio Jones could easily be a bust, and the consequences for the Falcons would be tremendous in the ensuing years. It'd be like flushing two consecutive years of drafts down the toilet for nothing.
How far back would it set a team that was 13-3 last year, with the same squad returning, and the ability to bench Julio if he doesn't perform and field the same squad as we did last year?

Answer, none, not even one iota. How far back did Jamaal Anderson set the organization? None.

Just as you say no organization is ever 1 player away, nor is 1 player make or break for any organization.

Next
the_dark_knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 05:48 PM    (permalink
the_dark_knight
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 677
Reputation: 1
the_dark_knight hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

#1 Money. Rice is going to get PAID, the number 6 overall pick won't be getting that kind of bank, not to mention we don't have to pay a first rounder's salary next year.

#2 One year wonder. No one wants to pay a WR when they're working for a contract, and had never done anything before.

#3 Julio has > potential than Rice

#4 Julio Jones can, and does block, and does so very well.

#5 Julio Jones is not a diva with an attitude that doesn't fit our lockerroom.

#6 We need a Defensive End to come in and make an immigration impact, not another young guy to come in and learn the ropes and take 3 years and maybe develop a little (Jamaal Anderson) We'd much rather spend our cash on a Defensive End like Charles Johnson or Ray Edwards who can come in and contribute from day 1 than risk it all on yet another drafted DE who have yet to pan out for us.

#7 Julio Jones is the best WR in this class for the scheme the Falcons run, and in fact, may have been the best fit of any player in the draft, except possibly Peterson (who in large part would be wasted due to our defensive "scheme")

#8 We now have a dynamic deep threat to force people into different coverages and to not double Roddy, or they will have to pay for it, or they will have to pull the 8th out of the box, and pay for it that way.

#9 Uncertainty of the FA/RFA/UFA situations. It would have cost us this year's and next year's first and likely this year's 2nd as well to try to work out a deal with a team like Arizona for a player like Fitz, who is going to garner a massive contract, and still not sure when / if that sort of thing is going to be available to happen. Obviously that speaks to our defense as well, but people keep pointing to us giving up 40+ to Green Bay in the playoffs, people have to remember not all of those points were scored on the defense, in fact the play that broke our back in that game was the interception going into halftime that was returned for a touchdown, until then the game was well within our reach and we were gaining momentum. But TD said this is what influenced the decision.

Those are the reasons I could come up with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
Here's something that confuses me about the Julio Jones trade, and I wish a Falcons fan could explain it to me.

If the Falcons were really a young, talented receiver away from being a championship team... why not just wait until free agency starts and sign Sidney Rice. In the worst possible case, Sidney Rice is an RFA and the extent of which it would cost the Falcons to acquire him is a 1 and a 3 next year plus a contract that the Vikings are unwilling to match (possibly by way of poison pill). Jones is only 29 months younger than Rice, barring a rookie wage scale Jones's contract would likely be larger than Rice's, choosing Rice over Jones would net the Falcons between 3 and 5 additional additional (high) draft picks, and Sidney Rice has already learned to play wide receiver effectively in the NFL.
the_dark_knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2011, 08:54 PM    (permalink
SativaDominant
Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 113
Reputation: 41942
SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'm sorry, but there is no way that you can convince me that there is a 43 pick difference (even more, when you consider what Atlanta gave up to get him) in terms of talent between Julio Jones and Greg Little. It's asinine.
SativaDominant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 02:15 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,441
Reputation: 348823
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
Here's something that confuses me about the Julio Jones trade, and I wish a Falcons fan could explain it to me.

If the Falcons were really a young, talented receiver away from being a championship team... why not just wait until free agency starts and sign Sidney Rice. In the worst possible case, Sidney Rice is an RFA and the extent of which it would cost the Falcons to acquire him is a 1 and a 3 next year plus a contract that the Vikings are unwilling to match (possibly by way of poison pill). Jones is only 29 months younger than Rice, barring a rookie wage scale Jones's contract would likely be larger than Rice's, choosing Rice over Jones would net the Falcons between 3 and 5 additional additional (high) draft picks, and Sidney Rice has already learned to play wide receiver effectively in the NFL.
First, Jones has the potential to be another Andre Johnson, Rice is just another one year wonder without the talent to spread a defense that a Johnson provides. No one is mistaking Rice for a superstar. If Minny thought for a moment that Rice had real star potential, they would have resigned him long ago or franchised him.

Second, Atlanta isn't being run by a weak GM incapable of judging talent. He, like most solid GM's believe Jones will be a huge star in the NFL especially with a franchise QB throwing him the ball.
I think it is a safe bet to say Atlanta with Jones, will be one of the top 5 offenses in the NFL for the foreseeable future, and in today's NFL, offense is the name of the game with the current rules.
You can add in another factor in the trade, Jones is an excellent blocker for a WR which will only enhance Atlanta's running game making their offense even more efficient.

What did it really cost them in terms of draft picks? At #27, you are talking about 2nd round talent and next year, with Jones, they could be giving up an even later pick. A next year's 1st round pick only carries the value as a 2nd rounder for this year's draft, and considering how late a pick it will be, Atlanta was in effect giving up 3rd round value to help acquire Jones. Heck, even Cleveland had to give up a 3rd rounder plus the #27 pick to get a decent 1st rounder in Taylor, showing how little the #27 pick was really worth.

This trade was brilliant in my opinion, whenever a team drafting very late in round 1 can acquire a top 10 talent for just picks, an almost impossible feat, you grab it every day of the year if you can and never look back. Say whatever you want about Jones but in the end he was a top 10 talent with the potential of an Andre Johnson, and together with Matt Ryan will be a terror in the NFL for the next decade and will likely include at least a couple of SB rings as a reward. If you think the price was to high for this kind of potential, I really question your thinking.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 02:46 PM    (permalink
Maybe This Year Mayhew
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 582
Reputation: 40906
Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
First, Jones has the potential to be another Andre Johnson, Rice is just another one year wonder without the talent to spread a defense that a Johnson provides. No one is mistaking Rice for a superstar. If Minny thought for a moment that Rice had real star potential, they would have resigned him long ago or franchised him.

Second, Atlanta isn't being run by a weak GM incapable of judging talent. He, like most solid GM's believe Jones will be a huge star in the NFL especially with a franchise QB throwing him the ball.
I think it is a safe bet to say Atlanta with Jones, will be one of the top 5 offenses in the NFL for the foreseeable future, and in today's NFL, offense is the name of the game with the current rules.
You can add in another factor in the trade, Jones is an excellent blocker for a WR which will only enhance Atlanta's running game making their offense even more efficient.

What did it really cost them in terms of draft picks? At #27, you are talking about 2nd round talent and next year, with Jones, they could be giving up an even later pick. A next year's 1st round pick only carries the value as a 2nd rounder for this year's draft, and considering how late a pick it will be, Atlanta was in effect giving up 3rd round value to help acquire Jones. Heck, even Cleveland had to give up a 3rd rounder plus the #27 pick to get a decent 1st rounder in Taylor, showing how little the #27 pick was really worth.

This trade was brilliant in my opinion, whenever a team drafting very late in round 1 can acquire a top 10 talent for just picks, an almost impossible feat, you grab it every day of the year if you can and never look back. Say whatever you want about Jones but in the end he was a top 10 talent with the potential of an Andre Johnson, and together with Matt Ryan will be a terror in the NFL for the next decade and will likely include at least a couple of SB rings as a reward. If you think the price was to high for this kind of potential, I really question your thinking.
Agreed. Losing the late 4ths no big deal and losing a late 1st next year and 2nd this year to acquire a top 10 talent is a good trade for a fairly complete team in Atlanta. Yes they lose the 27th this year also but they still had a 1st round pick turning 27 into pick number 6. So they lost a total of two extra picks I would care about in the late 1st next year and 2nd rounder this year to acquire a top ten talent. Good deal for both teams as the Browns have more holes and Atlanta gets a stud. Of course if Jones busts it doesn't look as great but hindsight is 20/20. Value wise it works for both teams.
Maybe This Year Mayhew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 03:22 PM    (permalink
descendency
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NC State
Posts: 8,303
Reputation: 1025761
descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbuc View Post
I just ask cause wouldn't you want Fitz over a unproven Jones.
Jones is also younger. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but high drafted players are like cars. Once you drive them off the lot (select them in the draft), their value tends to go down. In rare exceptions, they become extremely valuable.
__________________
I was gone for 2 months doing things I can't talk about. It might happen again, but that's just the nature of what I do and who I am.
descendency is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 06:16 PM    (permalink
roscoesdad27
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,557
Reputation: 12482
roscoesdad27 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.roscoesdad27 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.roscoesdad27 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.roscoesdad27 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.roscoesdad27 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.roscoesdad27 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.roscoesdad27 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.roscoesdad27 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.roscoesdad27 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.roscoesdad27 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.roscoesdad27 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I think Jones will be offensive rookie of the year and the falcons will have the best offense in the league next season but that isn't what was needed to get past g.b., the team you have to have in mind when boldly aiming for the superbowl with a trade like this. The pack put up 48 points at your place, Aaron Rodgers embarrassed the defense. There is no impact d.e. in free agency and a lot of competition for what's there + your best d.e. is a year or so away from retirement and better suited at l.e. anyways. Not to mention the w.r. need was for a #2 guy that coulda been had at great value with Greg Little in round 2. This woulda been a good move if the falcons were truly one player away or something but that's not the case here imho. It's not like they have an aging q.b. who's window of opportunity is closing or a defense that can afford to be neglected. It's not like the pack beat yall 14 - 10 either.....this was a desperate move by a delusioned owner, making it a bad trade.

B. Reed + G. Little + a first round pick in 2012 > J. Jones

Last edited by roscoesdad27 : 05-27-2011 at 06:20 PM.
roscoesdad27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 06:34 PM    (permalink
SativaDominant
Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 113
Reputation: 41942
SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
First, Jones has the potential to be another Andre Johnson, Rice is just another one year wonder without the talent to spread a defense that a Johnson provides. No one is mistaking Rice for a superstar. If Minny thought for a moment that Rice had real star potential, they would have resigned him long ago or franchised him.

Second, Atlanta isn't being run by a weak GM incapable of judging talent. He, like most solid GM's believe Jones will be a huge star in the NFL especially with a franchise QB throwing him the ball.
I think it is a safe bet to say Atlanta with Jones, will be one of the top 5 offenses in the NFL for the foreseeable future, and in today's NFL, offense is the name of the game with the current rules.
You can add in another factor in the trade, Jones is an excellent blocker for a WR which will only enhance Atlanta's running game making their offense even more efficient.

What did it really cost them in terms of draft picks? At #27, you are talking about 2nd round talent and next year, with Jones, they could be giving up an even later pick. A next year's 1st round pick only carries the value as a 2nd rounder for this year's draft, and considering how late a pick it will be, Atlanta was in effect giving up 3rd round value to help acquire Jones. Heck, even Cleveland had to give up a 3rd rounder plus the #27 pick to get a decent 1st rounder in Taylor, showing how little the #27 pick was really worth.

This trade was brilliant in my opinion, whenever a team drafting very late in round 1 can acquire a top 10 talent for just picks, an almost impossible feat, you grab it every day of the year if you can and never look back. Say whatever you want about Jones but in the end he was a top 10 talent with the potential of an Andre Johnson, and together with Matt Ryan will be a terror in the NFL for the next decade and will likely include at least a couple of SB rings as a reward. If you think the price was to high for this kind of potential, I really question your thinking.
Completely disagree, especially regarding Jones' upside. He's not the next Andre Johnson. 4.39 or not, that 40 speed absolutely doesn't translate onto his game tape. Plus, when you factor in the incredibly volatile success of highly drafted receivers coupled with the fact that they're going to need a massive overhaul defensively soon, I fail to see the upside of giving up multiple picks for someone who is far closer to Reggie Williams than Andre Johnson.

Like Roscoe and I have both stated, there is no way anybody can justify the huge disparity in where Jones and Little were picked, as they're essentially the same guy. It's reminiscent of the huge disparity in perceived value between Crabtree and Nicks.

Last edited by SativaDominant : 05-27-2011 at 06:39 PM.
SativaDominant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 06:39 PM    (permalink
Saints-Tigers
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,924
Reputation: 693643
Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Not so bold prediction. Saints finish ahead of Falcons this season offensively.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.
Saints-Tigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 06:59 PM    (permalink
Halsey
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cookeville,TN
Posts: 5,118
Reputation: 667043
Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

If Greg Little is so close to Jones, why did he only catch 6 TDs his whole time in college? Jones caught more TDs in 2010 than Little did his entire college career.
__________________

^What I just did to your argument
Halsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 07:19 PM    (permalink
SativaDominant
Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 113
Reputation: 41942
SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SativaDominant is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
If Greg Little is so close to Jones, why did he only catch 6 TDs his whole time in college? Jones caught more TDs in 2010 than Little did his entire college career.
Little only starting for one season at UNC may have something to do with that.

NFL scouting is not a statistical or numbers game. It's about projectable NFL traits, and people are way, way, way too generous with Jones' upside. Understandable though, as he's got good production in the SEC, is big, strong, and ran a fast 40.

However, he's slow in and out of breaks (despite relatively good route running and good hip flexability), and his acceleration is poor. Like I said, that 4.39 absolutely DOES NOT translate on game tape. He'll be a decent complimentary receiver in the NFL who does dirty work across the middle. Nice player? Sure. Worth his draft slot (plus what they gave up for him)? **** no.
SativaDominant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 07:54 PM    (permalink
Roddoliver
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 292
Reputation: 30476
Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Roddoliver is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Horrible trade by the Falcons. Such move deserves an F. Just awful. If it was for a QB that could eventually become the franchise QB... But for a WR? Even worse, a #2 WR to complement Roddy White? Fail.
Roddoliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2011, 08:00 PM    (permalink
initial_flo
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 213
Reputation: 3597
initial_flo is so money.initial_flo is so money.initial_flo is so money.initial_flo is so money.initial_flo is so money.initial_flo is so money.initial_flo is so money.initial_flo is so money.initial_flo is so money.initial_flo is so money.
Default

The Falcons better be thaaaaat close to being a super bowl contender otherwise this could really hurt them in the intermediate term. They put most of their draft eggs into one basket, at a position that wasn't a glaring need to begin with. I think Jones will be good, but he better turn out to be something really special to make this trade worth it.

IMO the trade wasn't worth it, the Falcons got straight embarrassed by Aaron Rodgers and the boys on defense. The should have addressed that and gone for a Sidney Rice or who ever in FA. There are only some many balls to go around in a balanced offense like the Falcons have anyway.

A boatload of draft picks for a good to great #2 guy in a balanced offense? No thanks.
__________________
initial_flo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2011, 10:19 AM    (permalink
Brown Leader
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sun rises in the East
Posts: 3,334
Reputation: 654774
Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brown Leader is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
First, Jones has the potential to be another Andre Johnson, Rice is just another one year wonder without the talent to spread a defense that a Johnson provides. No one is mistaking Rice for a superstar. If Minny thought for a moment that Rice had real star potential, they would have resigned him long ago or franchised him.

Second, Atlanta isn't being run by a weak GM incapable of judging talent. He, like most solid GM's believe Jones will be a huge star in the NFL especially with a franchise QB throwing him the ball.
I think it is a safe bet to say Atlanta with Jones, will be one of the top 5 offenses in the NFL for the foreseeable future, and in today's NFL, offense is the name of the game with the current rules.
So... something like the Texans the past 3 seasons? (making the enormous presumption that he'll be on par with the best WR in the league or be the league's best in the near future.)
Quote:
You can add in another factor in the trade, Jones is an excellent blocker for a WR which will only enhance Atlanta's running game making their offense even more efficient.
He's overrated in this department-potentially great because of his size & style but he's not dominant.

Quote:
What did it really cost them in terms of draft picks? At #27, you are talking about 2nd round talent and next year, with Jones, they could be giving up an even later pick. A next year's 1st round pick only carries the value as a 2nd rounder for this year's draft, and considering how late a pick it will be, Atlanta was in effect giving up 3rd round value to help acquire Jones. Heck, even Cleveland had to give up a 3rd rounder plus the #27 pick to get a decent 1st rounder in Taylor, showing how little the #27 pick was really worth.
Pretty twisted rationale here. The notion that top ten picks are the cream of the crop and late 1st round or 2nd round talent are not even comparable is just not accurate, when you're judging 3 years down the road.

Quote:
This trade was brilliant in my opinion, whenever a team drafting very late in round 1 can acquire a top 10 talent for just picks, an almost impossible feat, you grab it every day of the year if you can and never look back. Say whatever you want about Jones but in the end he was a top 10 talent with the potential of an Andre Johnson, and together with Matt Ryan will be a terror in the NFL for the next decade and will likely include at least a couple of SB rings as a reward. If you think the price was to high for this kind of potential, I really question your thinking.
Recent history has shown, playoff caliber teams (or hopefuls) reaching or investing big for a WR to put them over the top hasn't worked. Ravens-Boldin, Dolphins-Marshall, Bengals-T.O., Niners-Crabtree. Even when they're successful, Dez, Britt, Nicks, they don't drastically change the team's fortunes. Dimitroff is one of the best and this looks solid for both teams right now but history is not on his side on this one.
__________________

..yes, this sig is a little embarrassing right now
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg9 View Post
Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBess View Post
....ask Brandon Weeden.
Pre-Draft 2014 Mock *FULL DRAFT*
Brown Leader is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.