New York Giants Discussion

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by OSUGiants17

Not saying I want him or we will get him just simply posting an article. If we got him then TT would be pushed to Nickle or traded which I am against. Tuck should be talking to LBs out there not players that we don't truly need or have the money for

I'd want him, we'd be playing a lot of nickel again, but TT is as good of a DB as your going to find to be a pseudo-backer. If there were a stud LB out there I'd be all for it but other than poossible Harris who can we get who'd be a bigger upgrade than Aso? Not that I expect us to actually shell out the money it'd take to get Aso, but if it were an option it would be our best option. With Aso and Webster we could basically play man on the outside all game with just a single safety high for support and not have to worry about teams beating us deep provided we used the extra player those two would free up to fill in the holes down the middle or get pressure to actually get through throughout a game.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Fun note, I just learned the other day that I work with Adrian Tracy's mom. Super nice lady, I'm gonna try to cop some Giants tickets, lol, if he's still on the roster next year that is.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

Fun note, I just learned the other day that I work with Adrian Tracy's mom. Super nice lady, I'm gonna try to cop some Giants tickets, lol, if he's still on the roster next year that is.

I think he would make the team. He was actually pretty impressive during training camp, I was pleasantly surprised.

He looked better than Sintim did quite honestly. Something's gotta give with our LB core, I'm sure we're going to draft a couple more and we have so many JAGs on the roster, I'm sure we'll lose a couple.

I'm sure Wilkinson is toast. And Bulluck is gone. So I guess that opens the door for 1 or 2 more linebackers on the roster.

[Forenci]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I think he would make the team. He was actually pretty impressive during training camp, I was pleasantly surprised.

He looked better than Sintim did quite honestly. Something's gotta give with our LB core, I'm sure we're going to draft a couple more and we have so many JAGs on the roster, I'm sure we'll lose a couple.

I'm sure Wilkinson is toast. And Bulluck is gone. So I guess that opens the door for 1 or 2 more linebackers on the roster.

I'm not so sure about Wilkinson. As much as we may hate to admit, the guy is a very good special teams players, and we all know how Coughlin has a hard on for players who do well on specials.

Speaking of which, we really need to get our entire special teams unit sorted out. We haven't had a dynamic kick/punter returner in what seems like ages, if ever. That and we can't tackle anyone when it matters (Desean).

[SeanTaylorRIP]

I think both Tracy and Sintim are not great fits for your defensive scheme but you can definitely work with them.

[BaLLiN]

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

I think both Tracy and Sintim are not great fits for your defensive scheme but you can definitely work with them.

Sintim is a DE, In Al Groh's system he was essentially used as that if not just floating around. In a 3-4 that is something you might have the option to do, but you can't rush a OLB on all downs, and when he is in coverage, it can't always be zone. He just doesn't have the fluidity to play man well, he is decent at zone.

Tracy i haven't seen much of, but from what i saw in his college tape, i thought of a more stiff version of sintim. I think he'll still be a ST player.

[bigbluedefense]

Sintim did fit Spag's defense. He liked using a DE/OLB hybrid as his SAM in his system.

He doesn't fit Fewell's system at all though.

[Bostonblows91]

This new kickoff rule will probably reduce our fumbles by 25%!

[DOMINATEtheline]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

While I love to ***** about Killdrive I can't agree with the idea that his problem wasn't utilizing Mario Manningham, the kid's extremely explosive, but he's also still so raw as a route runner and we just couldn't trust him with this offense any more than we had to. Now I also disagree with killdrive's need for an excessively complex passing system with as many young receivers as we have, but that's a mistake made in the offseason. One thing, if we keep Killdrive and Steve Smith can stay healthy he could put up HOF numbers catching passes from Eli. SS is probably the perfect receiver for this system out of any young receiver out there simply because of how well he reads the field and how well he and eli can stay on the same page in this stupidly confusing offense. I think Nicks has the instincts to become great in it to, he still clearly has some room to grow.

I guess there's no point to that textual ejaculation other than, the offense is a cool idea that we just were in no position to run given what was happening with our personnel and that is absolutely on Killdrive, which is what infuriates me. If we had a team full of Steve Smith's and strong OL I'd be for it, even though I do agree that Killdrive does a **** job of utilizing some guys, but we don't we had young inexperienced Hakeem Nicks, young inexperienced and possibly ******** Mario Manningham and a young completely inexperienced Ramses Barden to go with our one steve Smith. That's just bad management and planning.

I agree mostly on all your points, Manningham has those deficiencies, I think if he worked on his craft seriously and ran precise routes he could be Chad Johnson before he became a hasbeen. Chad Johnson before his OCHOCINCO persona came along was so explosive, I think Mannigham has the sneaky footspeed he had. More importantly, a consistent offense is like wishing on star.....

[Big_Pete]

I don't think Sintim is a good fit for our system, I think we should look at trading him for and extra pick. I could see teams like New England and Houston being very interested. Alternatively we could consider using Sintim's value to trade up.

As far as overhauling our LBs this offseason, I think we are going to have to do it through free agency and draft for the future. (and this is our top free agency need in my opinion, needing two LBs)

Ideally I would like to see us pick up Barrett Ruud and Rocky McIntosh as free agents and draft a couple of guys who could fit our system like Chris Carter and Colin McCarthy to groom for the future.

That would give us a LB corps something like:

SLB: Rocky McIntosh, Chris Carter

MLB: Barrett Ruud, Jon Goff

WLB: Michael Boley, Colin McCarthy, Phillip Dillard

[Bostonblows91]

Originally Posted by Big_Pete

I don't think Sintim is a good fit for our system, I think we should look at trading him for and extra pick. I could see teams like New England and Houston being very interested. Alternatively we could consider using Sintim's value to trade up.

As far as overhauling our LBs this offseason, I think we are going to have to do it through free agency and draft for the future. (and this is our top free agency need in my opinion, needing two LBs)

Ideally I would like to see us pick up Barrett Ruud and Rocky McIntosh as free agents and draft a couple of guys who could fit our system like Chris Carter and Colin McCarthy to groom for the future.

That would give us a LB corps something like:

SLB: Rocky McIntosh, Chris Carter

MLB: Barrett Ruud, Jon Goff

WLB: Michael Boley, Colin McCarthy, Phillip Dillard

This would be a nice overhaul, i really don't think sintim has ANY trade value anymore. Probably a 6th rounder tops. I'd also like to see martez wilson or greg jones or someone like that.

[BaLLiN]

Originally Posted by Bostonblows91

This would be a nice overhaul, i really don't think sintim has ANY trade value anymore. Probably a 6th rounder tops. I'd also like to see martez wilson or greg jones or someone like that.

what..? why does his value go down soo much? He was once considered a first round pick value, and we got him in the early second with the pick from the saints for shockey. Its not that he hasn't produced, he did show some promise as a rookie, but he was injured last season.

He is worthy of at least a 4th rounder, i could see 3rd easily.

[Big_Pete]

Originally Posted by BaLLiN

what..? why does his value go down soo much? He was once considered a first round pick value, and we got him in the early second with the pick from the saints for shockey. Its not that he hasn't produced, he did show some promise as a rookie, but he was injured last season.

He is worthy of at least a 4th rounder, i could see 3rd easily.

I agree, Sintim has value for a 3-4 team, top of the list would be Houston, Arizona and New England.

I could see any giving a 3rd round pick for him. Sure he hasn't been a good fit in out 4-3, but he is a very good option as a 3-4 OLB.

Both Arizona and Houston badly need help at OLB for their 3-4 and a guy like Sintim is much better than any of the options available in the 3rd round and allows them to consider other needs earlier. The Pats are in a similar position, but they also have close ties with Al Groh and the Pats were reportedly high on Sintim in the draft.

I could see the Cardinals, Houston or New England be willing to give up 69, 73 or 74 to get Sintim.

[Malaka]

A 3rd rounder for Sintim? That's just way too optimistic. Yeah the guy has potential and is still young, but he hasn't produced at all, and couldn't grab the starting spot last year before his injury.

I'd say a 4th rounder at best, but more likely a 5th round pick for Clint. I really like him, but with Spags gone we just don't have a need for the attacking JOKER position.

I think we should trade Sintim, or just end the LB experiment and groom him as a pass rush specialist. We honestly screwed Kiwi's career, I don't wanna see us do that to a guy again.

On a side note, Kiwi could have been an amazing defensive end if we just let him stay there; it's too bad we couldn't do to Kiwi what we have been doing with Pierre-Paul. I think, correct me if I am wrong, Strahan even said Kiwi was better than Tuck and Umenyiora from a pure skill standpoint. I am sad that Kiwi's career is in jeopardy just as he was coming into his own =(

[bigbluedefense]

I feel awful for Kiwi. I love the guy. He's everything you want in a football player. High character, team player, smart, talented, the whole 9.

I really hope he can recover.

[BaLLiN]

any news on Ahmad, Smith, or Kiwi?

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Re-sign Bradshaw! Come on! Please! Do it! Do it!

[bigbluedefense]

Is it too early to talk about FA?

Anybody have any names in mind? I don't want us going after any FA LBs bc I dont want us stuck with another mediocre LB on contract for however many years.

I wouldn't mind another DT for depth, some olinemen as well. I rather have DWill than Bradshaw at RB as well.

[Giantsfan1080]

OL depth. I think Williams will be too expensive but we'll see.

[OSUGiants17]

As long as Tulloch and Poz don't have 1st round tenders I say we go after them.

[BaLLiN]

Originally Posted by OSUGiants17

As long as Tulloch and Poz don't have 1st round tenders I say we go after them.

hasn't poz been injured to end the season for 3 straight years?

[Big_Pete]

Here is my latest thinking on what I would like to see the Giants roster shape up.

(Note I am expecting no salary cap this year with 4 years eligibility for UFA)

Offense

• QB: Eli Manning, Sage Rosenfels
• RB: Brandon Jacobs, Michael Bush (Raiders), Danny Ware/ Da'Rel Scott
• FB: Vonta Leach (Texans)
• WR: Hakeem Nicks, Steve Smith, Mario Manningham, Ramsees Barden, Jerrell Jernigan, Domenik Hixon/ Victor Cruz/ Devin Thomas
• TE: Kevin Boss, Travis Beckum, Bear Pascoe
• LT: David Diehl, James Brewer
• LG: Rich Seubert, Mitch Petrus
• C: Shaun O'Hara, Adam Koets/ Tim Barnes (UDFA)
• RG: Chris Snee, Kevin Boothe
• RT: Kareem McKenzie, Will Beatty

Defense

• LDE: Justin Tuck, Matthias Kiwanuka
• UT: Barry Cofield, Marvin Austin
• NT: Chris Canty, Linval Joseph
• RDE: Osi Umenyiora, Jason Pierre-Paul
• SLB: Michael Boley, Clint Sintim/ Adrian Tracy
• MLB: Jon Goff, Greg Jones
• WLB: Thomas Howard (Raiders), Phillip Dillard/ Mark Herzlich (UDFA), Jacquian Williams
• CB1: Corey Webster, Aaron Ross, Bruce Johnson/ Ryan Jones (UDFA)
• CB2: Terrell Thomas, Prince Amukamara
• SS: Kenny Phillips, Tyler Sash
• FS: Antrell Rolle, Dashon Goldson (49ers), Jason Allen (Texans)/ Deunta Williams (UDFA)

Special Teams

• LS: Zak DeOssie
• K: Lawrence Tynes
• P: Matt Dodge

Notes

Shawn Andrews is worth $6.5m this year, this money can be reinvested to resign Cofield. This allows us to cut Bernard (using that money to keep Kiwanuka ie $2.95m + his $1.91m tender).

Howard can play either OLB spot, he is faster and more athletic than Boley (who can also play both OLB spots). Both give us tremendous speed and athleticism outside. This gives Fewell an ideal pair of OLBs for his Tampa 2.

Goff is a solid MLB, particularly on running downs. Howard and Boley are ideal LBs on passing downs and Sintim can be in the mix on running downs at SLB.

[LTgiants]

So you are plans are

Letting Bradshaw go to replace him with Bush

Resigning Cofield

Picking up Herzleich from the UFL

Signing 3 Safeties and another CB

and finally adding nobody else to the Oline for depth

The only things I can say I like are Vonta Leach and Thomas Howard.

Edit:

also I doubt we are going to keep 8 Wr's that seems like a little much

[Big_Pete]

Originally Posted by LTgiants

So you are plans are

Letting Bradshaw go to replace him with Bush

Resigning Cofield

Picking up Herzleich from the UFL

Signing 3 Safeties and another CB

and finally adding nobody else to the Oline for depth

The only things I can say I like are Vonta Leach and Thomas Howard.

Edit:

also I doubt we are going to keep 8 Wr's that seems like a little much

you missed the point of some of the depth positions, multiple players competing for one spot. Total of 6 WRs, 5 CB, 5 safeties.

Bush will be cheaper than Bradshaw and has better ball security

Unless we spring for a stud Oline, the options will not be much better than the guys we currently have. The key will be our guys getting healthy, which seems to be the case. We have good young guys developing who should improve. This group is actually still quite good.

[LTgiants]

Originally Posted by Big_Pete

you missed the point of some of the depth positions, multiple players competing for one spot. Total of 6 WRs, 5 CB, 5 safeties

no matter

You listed 8 WR's. I get it you would cut 2 before the season starts I understood that but I think even still that is to many guys cause not all of them are going to get looks. 5 CB I didn't have much issue taking a chance on the UDFA CB.

Signing 3 safeties and adding Herzlich while pretty much ignoring O Line Depth all together was more of a issue with your roster idea then something like your Bradshaw-Bush swap.