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View Poll Results: Is Channing Frye the most influential NBA PLAYER EVER?
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Old 05-27-2011, 10:25 PM    (permalink
yodabear
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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
2 in the top 5? who's the 2nd?

Deron Williams
Anthony Morrow
Kris Humphries
Hamady N'Diaye
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Oh Big Z, man is a beast. Take Morrow out and put in Mike Miller. Dude is just a studly beast.
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Old 05-27-2011, 10:26 PM    (permalink
scottyboy
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eh, I'll take out DWill and move everyone else up and put up Miller. DWill's the weak link of that group actually.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 05-27-2011, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LTgiants View Post
So Lebron never missed a shot in the clutch. Never failed in the clutch in his NBA career. Come on Complex I know you want to defend Lebron but I will turn this into the Lebron brick thread if I really have to. I don't want to but I will.
Yeah he's missed shots, but who hasn't?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU2N0q6iSHk

Pretty solid.
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Complex View Post
MJ did not need to join a good team because he had a good team with good players around him. Don;'t mention Mo Williams as good player please.
His #2 was Scottie Pippen (a very good player - relative to the greats). Who was his #3?
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:58 AM    (permalink
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Yeah he's missed shots, but who hasn't?
If I were to try to argue that he has been "LeBrick" I would talk about jumpshots he's missed to win games.

That said, he isn't "not clutch". I'm not saying he's the most clutch player in the league, but he has really good games against really good teams in really important games.

If he hadn't had those games, he wouldn't have been in position to even try a jumper to win/tie the game.
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Old 05-28-2011, 03:08 AM    (permalink
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As an Ohio native that's been following LeBron James' career since high school, I feel that this needs to be said and no one else is going to mention it. No, the Cavs did not surround LeBron with a star-studded supporting cast during his time here. But there is no debating that LeBron had a huge hand in building those Cleveland teams. Almost all personnel decisions were presented to LeBron before the front office made their move. During his time here, Cavs management was so paralyzed at the thought of losing LeBron that they never denied him anything. They were handcuffed by their own superstar.

In the summer of '05, after the Cavs lost out on bids to acquire Michael Redd and Ray Allen, LeBron pushed management to bring in Larry Hughes. So, to appease him, Danny Ferry signed an overrated and oft-injured swingman that fit poorly to a hefty contract. In that same summer, LeBron lobbied for free agents Donyell Marshall and Damon Jones, saying he needed shooters in order to compete. So management went out and got them. But paid a decent price in the process. Even the Ben Wallace and Mo Williams trades have his fingerprints on them. The signing of Shaq? LeBron approved.

All throughout his tenure in Cleveland, the Cavs organization bent over backwards to help him. Even mortgaged their cap space on overrated pieces for no other reason than LeBron stated he wanted to play with them. For everyone that wants to criticize his supporting cast, they need to realize that LeBron was an architect of these teams too. He basically handpicked his squad. And, as his well-publicized free agency loomed on the horizon, his noncommittal attitude toward the Cavs didn't help matters. No one wanted to risk coming to Cleveland only to have LeBron pack up and leave town.

He was the most powerful superstar in NBA history when he was with the Cavs. In fact, in hindsight, he was far too powerful.
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Old 05-28-2011, 03:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JeffSamardzijaIRISH View Post
And how did the Mavs win? Come back against the Lakers almost every game, come back against the Thunder almost every game. You think the Mavs will stall the most potent offensive player in the game? Lebron doesn't crumble in these moments.
Yeah, Lebron had a couple clutch games in these playoffs. Those like two games completely erase a career reputation of being unclutch haha. You are so full of ****.

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Originally Posted by Complex View Post
Yeah but Jordan was the better player like LeBron is better than Wade.
You don't get it. Lebron joined Wade's team.

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Originally Posted by Complex View Post
yeah your right those Miami Heat are so lucky right now if the Mavs don't play perfect it was really them losing rather than Miami winning.
You really really don't get it lol.
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Football...it's rocket surgery now, folks.
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Old 05-28-2011, 03:48 AM    (permalink
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Watch the Magic series from 2 years ago? the Boston series in Cleveland when he scored whay 28 straight points? yeah big chocker.
Yeah, he was clutch like three times in his life. I will still side with the trend, you can have your exceptions.

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Originally Posted by Complex View Post
But no one says he is Dwayne side kick besides butt hurt fans aka LeBron did sign with my team and LeBron haters.
I am a Timberwolves fan. I used to like Lebron, up until the last year or two. Lebron earned his way to be hated. Anyone who isn't blinded by basketball ignorance knows Lebron is Wade's sidekick.

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Originally Posted by 7-11 View Post
Yeah but who did Iverson beat? Not a lot of great teams in the eastern conference in 01. And i'd take the 01 76ers supporting cast over the rabble that Lebron had next to him any day of the week.
And that explains everything you posted in this thread. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. Mo Williams + Big Z + Varejo + Jamison >> Eric Snow and company.
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Old 05-28-2011, 03:54 AM    (permalink
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There is so much stupidity and ignorance in this thread (coughcomplexcough711cough) it makes me sick. Anyone who is even remotely suggesting Lebron is a better player than MJ needs gouge their eyes out as they are not worthy of watching the great sport of basketball. Yes, that includes you Scottie Pippen.
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Football...it's rocket surgery now, folks.
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Old 05-28-2011, 04:04 AM    (permalink
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As an Ohio native that's been following LeBron James' career since high school, I feel that this needs to be said and no one else is going to mention it. No, the Cavs did not surround LeBron with a star-studded supporting cast during his time here. But there is no debating that LeBron had a huge hand in building those Cleveland teams. Almost all personnel decisions were presented to LeBron before the front office made their move. During his time here, Cavs management was so paralyzed at the thought of losing LeBron that they never denied him anything. They were handcuffed by their own superstar.

In the summer of '05, after the Cavs lost out on bids to acquire Michael Redd and Ray Allen, LeBron pushed management to bring in Larry Hughes. So, to appease him, Danny Ferry signed an overrated and oft-injured swingman that fit poorly to a hefty contract. In that same summer, LeBron lobbied for free agents Donyell Marshall and Damon Jones, saying he needed shooters in order to compete. So management went out and got them. But paid a decent price in the process. Even the Ben Wallace and Mo Williams trades have his fingerprints on them. The signing of Shaq? LeBron approved.

All throughout his tenure in Cleveland, the Cavs organization bent over backwards to help him. Even mortgaged their cap space on overrated pieces for no other reason than LeBron stated he wanted to play with them. For everyone that wants to criticize his supporting cast, they need to realize that LeBron was an architect of these teams too. He basically handpicked his squad. And, as his well-publicized free agency loomed on the horizon, his noncommittal attitude toward the Cavs didn't help matters. No one wanted to risk coming to Cleveland only to have LeBron pack up and leave town.

He was the most powerful superstar in NBA history when he was with the Cavs. In fact, in hindsight, he was far too powerful.
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Old 05-28-2011, 04:43 AM    (permalink
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The stupidity in this thread is too much at times. Hate Lebron all you want, hell I hate him too, but he is a better player than Dwayne Wade and it's not debatable. The Heat's success hinges more on Lebron than Wade, and it's 100% completely irrelevant who went to which team. If Wade played in the shithole of a city and Lebron played in the city with hot chicks and no income tax he goes to Lebron's team and everyone has a different opinion.

And also Lebron is not on Jordan's level. Get that **** out of here.
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Old 05-28-2011, 04:52 AM    (permalink
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is LeBron by far the best player in the NBA - yes

is LeBron anywhere near Jordan's level - no
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:10 AM    (permalink
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Well said by Cudders above ^.

Number one, let's be real here and admit that there are 2 sides to the Lebron fiasco...... yep he helped get those supporting pieces in Cleveland, which helped their team get the #1 NBA best record a couple of times but also helped lead them to no titles.
And number two, how many of you all, quite honestly, would choose to take a job up in cleveland when you could get the same job in south beach?

the advantages of going to miami are:
A) no state income taxes
B) hotter chicks
C) pairing up with another great player
D) hot women
E) way cooler city
F) gorgeous women
G) better weather

Lebron is still in his mid 20's.... nobody in their right mind can blame him for that move, despite where his growing-up roots were.
With that amount of money, he can change those roots. He can move them all to Florida, as I would do if I had that amount of money.

Now, I still like the guy less for taking that easy street however.
Dirk could have fled like that and handpicked where he went.
Joe Mauer could have, another hometown hero just like LeBron. Now Joe will probably never win a title because of that loyalty though, so he's making a sacrifice there, which I can respect because of how much it meant to his state.

Lebron is Dan Marino.
Jordan is Brady + Manning + Bradshaw.
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:47 AM    (permalink
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And that explains everything you posted in this thread. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. Mo Williams + Big Z + Varejo + Jamison >> Eric Snow and company.
Haha, nice try but in calling me out you basically shot yourself in the foot. Eric Snow and company? are you ******* kidding me? Don't try to act all high and mighty when you don't actually know what you're talking about. And very cute with your little cough cough things but i actually say a couple of posts ago that i don't think Lebron will ever be on MJ's level.

2000 was actually the first year i really started getting into basketball so i can actually make a decent assessment of that 76ers team.

Eric Snow and company...well why don't you go and have a look at that team and how it was built. To start the season they had Theo Ratliff who was a damn good defensive center in those days, when he went down they made a trade for Dikembe Mutumbo and i'm going to assume you know what he was about (defensive player of the year that year). Eric Snow as you mentioned was a very good defensive PG who could also guard a lot of shooting guards which made life much easier for AI. Tyrone Hill was the starting PF, strong defensive player, a double-double sort of guy and former all-star. George Lynch started at SF and was a very good defensive wing. Aaron Mckie was the 6th man of the year that year and provided a bit of scoring and playmaking for a team that didn't have a lot of options in that area. Combine all this with Larry Brown who is one of the greatest defensive coaches of all-time and this roster full of hard-nosed defensive role-players was basically perfectly constructed around an iso volume scorer in AI (i know this is doing AI a disservice but for arguments sake that's what i'm calling him).

And yes, i'm taking that supporting cast over Z, Drew Gooden (yuk), Larry Hughes (yuk-er), Donyell Marshall, Wally, Delonte, Boobie, Mo Williams and Flopajao.

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Old 05-28-2011, 07:49 AM    (permalink
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There is so much stupidity and ignorance in this thread (coughcomplexcough711cough) it makes me sick. Anyone who is even remotely suggesting Lebron is a better player than MJ needs gouge their eyes out as they are not worthy of watching the great sport of basketball. Yes, that includes you Scottie Pippen.
And for ***** sake Scottie never said Lebron was better, and even if he did i'd value his opinion over "prock's" any day of the week.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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Settle down or stop talking about the subject guys. Let's have a fun discussion without getting personal.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, Lebron had a couple clutch games in these playoffs. Those like two games completely erase a career reputation of being unclutch haha. You are so full of ****.



You don't get it. Lebron joined Wade's team.



You really really don't get it lol.
I do get it obviously you don't get it.

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so far a lot of the Heat success in these playoffs have been predicated on Boston and Chicago choking away leads in the fourth quarter and subsequently the Heat taking full advantage (18-3 run to close out the game?!?!?!) - soybean
LeBron joined Wades team and made it his.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, he was clutch like three times in his life. I will still side with the trend, you can have your exceptions.



I am a Timberwolves fan. I used to like Lebron, up until the last year or two. Lebron earned his way to be hated. Anyone who isn't blinded by basketball ignorance knows Lebron is Wade's sidekick.



And that explains everything you posted in this thread. You obviously don't know what you are talking about. Mo Williams + Big Z + Varejo + Jamison >> Eric Snow and company.

I gave a couple examples of him being clutch not all them. I did not know I was suppose to name them all. Yes, I am the one that is blinded.
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Settle down or stop talking about the subject guys. Let's have a fun discussion without getting personal.
we'll get on track when you answer my ******* trade offer
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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His #2 was Scottie Pippen (a very good player - relative to the greats). Who was his #3?
Dennis Rodman? Lets not act like Jordan was playing scrubs. They made the the playoffs and could of beat the Knicks if wasn't for some bogus call.
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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MJ won 3 titles before Rodman was ever a Bull. Horace Grant was the #3 for those first 3 titles, plus beyond MJ, Pip, Grant, and Armstrong, the Bulls roster was horrible. I mean c'mon Scott Williams? Will Purdue? John Paxon? They have names because they played with MJ but they were not good players at all. I don't think any of them ever averaged double figures in a season.
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Luc Longley > Wade and Bosh
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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The stupidity in this thread is too much at times. Hate Lebron all you want, hell I hate him too, but he is a better player than Dwayne Wade and it's not debatable. The Heat's success hinges more on Lebron than Wade, and it's 100% completely irrelevant who went to which team. If Wade played in the shithole of a city and Lebron played in the city with hot chicks and no income tax he goes to Lebron's team and everyone has a different opinion.

And also Lebron is not on Jordan's level. Get that **** out of here.
100% agree.

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LeBron joined Wades team and made it his.
I agree with that too.

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Dennis Rodman? Lets not act like Jordan was playing scrubs. They made the the playoffs and could of beat the Knicks if wasn't for some bogus call.
Yep. People forget how good he was. He was one of the best defenders of all time and is probably the best rebounding foward of all time. The guy had 6 15+ rpg seasons. That's insane.
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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MJ won 3 titles before Rodman was ever a Bull. Horace Grant was the #3 for those first 3 titles, plus beyond MJ, Pip, Grant, and Armstrong, the Bulls roster was horrible. I mean c'mon Scott Williams? Will Purdue? John Paxon? They have names because they played with MJ but they were not good players at all. I don't think any of them ever averaged double figures in a season.
Yeah and they almost made it to the conference finals with that "scrub" roster without Rodman or Jordan if it wasn't for that bogus call. Tell me what have did the Mo Williams aka " Scottie Pippen 2.0" led Cavs do this season? Let me guess it was it Big Z that carried all Cavs teams and he was the missing piece not LeBron.

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Old 05-28-2011, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Luc Longley > Wade and Bosh
By far the best post
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