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Old 06-25-2011, 04:10 PM    (permalink
LTgiants
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Maybe him and Isiah both have naked pictures of Dolan somewhere that they're using to blackmail him with.

My disdain for D'Antoni isn't just his lack of defense, it's his management of our roster, his style lives and dies with the 3 which is a low percentage shot, his stubbornness with certain players and playing time, his teams typically lack toughness and can't finish in crunch time, etc.

I just don't like him. His teams are soft. I'm not sure a defensive assistant will change that. A team typically takes the personality of it's HC. Not just in basketball, but in any sport.

I just don't like his cream puff style.
I wouldn't call it a cream puff style. Its a style based on floor spacing and ball movement. Nobody can argue that having floor spacing and ball movement is a bad thing.

My issue with him isn't his offensive philosophy. More with the whole balance of his minutes and his use of only 8 players is the thing that bothers me the most.

I think he should add a defensive coach and have a defensive philosophy other then just a regular man to man street ball type defense. Adding a defensive coach cant hurt it can only help at this point.

How ever I feel if you are a NBA player playing at the highest level you should have a general idea how to play defense and a lot of the players here don't know how to do that. It should not take you this long to figure it out.

I don't think you will see a huge change in defense right away if you fired D'antoni. It doesn't matter who the coach is if you don't have all 5 guys out there wanting to play on that end.
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Old 06-26-2011, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, Stat and Melo are what they are defensively. That won't change with a new coaching staff.

But what can change is the type of players we surround them with. A defensive coach would redo our bench and our supporting cast to focus on guys who play that nasty gritty style to make up for Melo and Stat. We should surround those 2 with defensive minded players, who in a perfect world, can hit a jump shot.

With Melo and Stat, we have enough offensive talent with those 2 alone to get by offensively. Now we need to surround them with those gritty players that will do the dirty work. If Chicago can be good with 1 great offensive player, we should be able to do the same if not more with Stat and Melo if we surround them with defenders.

With D'Antoni as coach, we just won't look for those guys unfortunately. He's more concerned with finding guys who can spread the floor and hit their Js, and if they can D up on top of that, then great. But it's a secondary desire of his, whereas a defensive coach would look for that first and offense second.

It's tough, bc while I hate D'Antoni's style, he's not a terrible coach, and his system does work. But I just don't like it.

I also have the same issues you have with him, with his 8 man rotation etc. That is truly his biggest issue.
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Old 06-26-2011, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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I agree with pretty much everything you said. However Chicago's offense is just a Derrick Rose iso offense. With 4 guys to compliment him. You cant do that with the Knicks it would be horrible. It probably would cause a clash between Melo and Stat cause some nights one guy would dominate the ball more then the other one.
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Old 06-26-2011, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, Stat and Melo are what they are defensively. That won't change with a new coaching staff.

But what can change is the type of players we surround them with. A defensive coach would redo our bench and our supporting cast to focus on guys who play that nasty gritty style to make up for Melo and Stat. We should surround those 2 with defensive minded players, who in a perfect world, can hit a jump shot.

With Melo and Stat, we have enough offensive talent with those 2 alone to get by offensively. Now we need to surround them with those gritty players that will do the dirty work. If Chicago can be good with 1 great offensive player, we should be able to do the same if not more with Stat and Melo if we surround them with defenders.

With D'Antoni as coach, we just won't look for those guys unfortunately. He's more concerned with finding guys who can spread the floor and hit their Js, and if they can D up on top of that, then great. But it's a secondary desire of his, whereas a defensive coach would look for that first and offense second.

It's tough, bc while I hate D'Antoni's style, he's not a terrible coach, and his system does work. But I just don't like it.

I also have the same issues you have with him, with his 8 man rotation etc. That is truly his biggest issue.
Because Jared Jeffries, Ronny Turiaf, Iman Shumpert and Raja Bell are such offensive dynamo's? Yeah, mike won't play guys who disrupt our own offense, but all a defender needs to do to satisfy mike is not chuck up stupid shots, not try too do too much and pass the ball to someone who's not offensively useless. He's a smart coach, he knows how he wants to play, and given who our stars are it's not a bad call, but the people who ***** about him not caring about D are stupid, he does, he's just not as adept at coaching it as he is offense. Then again that'll probably change once he wins his first ring because Rick Carlisle's defenses where a joke with Detroit just 7 years ago and now he's getting credit as one of the best coaches in the league.
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Old 06-26-2011, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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So how exactly do you plan for Mike to get his version of Dwayne Casey?
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Old 06-26-2011, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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So how exactly do you plan for Mike to get his version of Dwayne Casey?
Wish I knew enough about NBA coaches to be able to say who we should get to be his defensive assistant.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-26-2011, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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Wish I knew enough about NBA coaches to be able to say who we should get to be his defensive assistant.
I was just saying since you were talking about D'antoni's reputation rebounding if he wins. I was just trying to say Dwayne Casey had more to do with the Mavs D then Rick and people respecting the Mavs D. Which is why Casey is now coach of the Raptors.
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Old 06-26-2011, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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I was just saying since you were talking about D'antoni's reputation rebounding if he wins. I was just trying to say Dwayne Casey had more to do with the Mavs D then Rick and people respecting the Mavs D. Which is why Casey is now coach of the Raptors.
Carlisle's reputation is on a completely different level than it was a few years ago while I have no issue attributing that to Casey's influence it doesn't change what it's done for Carlisle. I think Mike D being open to a defensive assistant and Carlisle's experience provide us with a good example of how a guy who just isn't a good teacher of defense can still do a great job coaching a great defensive team under the right conditions. I believe in Mike and love the way he wants his teams to play, unfortunately he's had a lot of ******** players and ****** defenders. I wish I knew who that missing piece is to be Mike's Casey, but we still need more defenders before then and need to keep building our team. I'm getting excited to see Shumpert's impact since I think him and Dougie could be absolutely brutal attacking opposing back courts on D and having players who'll play good defense is one of the big piece that fell into place for Carlisle.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-26-2011, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Carlisle's reputation is on a completely different level than it was a few years ago while I have no issue attributing that to Casey's influence it doesn't change what it's done for Carlisle. I think Mike D being open to a defensive assistant and Carlisle's experience provide us with a good example of how a guy who just isn't a good teacher of defense can still do a great job coaching a great defensive team under the right conditions. I believe in Mike and love the way he wants his teams to play, unfortunately he's had a lot of ******** players and ****** defenders. I wish I knew who that missing piece is to be Mike's Casey, but we still need more defenders before then and need to keep building our team. I'm getting excited to see Shumpert's impact since I think him and Dougie could be absolutely brutal attacking opposing back courts on D and having players who'll play good defense is one of the big piece that fell into place for Carlisle.
Ya Carlisle's rep is now better then it was when he first got hired that usually is what happens when you have winning seasons and then you add a title to it.

Ya you need defenders otherwise it doesn't matter who you have running the D. You are not telling me anything I don't know there. If Mike and management can find a guy weather its Lawrence Frank or who ever they need to get rid of Herb Williams. Mike can coach O and let someone else focus on the D.

As much as I like Douglas I think moving Douglas is the next step you have to take to improve this team. Trade Douglas, Balkman and Walker for Ramon Sessions and Samardo Samuels is the move I want to see made it gives us a good backup PG and another center which we need. A center who is athletic and plays D
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Old 06-26-2011, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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Ya Carlisle's rep is now better then it was when he first got hired that usually is what happens when you have winning seasons and then you add a title to it.

Ya you need defenders otherwise it doesn't matter who you have running the D. You are not telling me anything I don't know there. If Mike and management can find a guy weather its Lawrence Frank or who ever they need to get rid of Herb Williams. Mike can coach O and let someone else focus on the D.

As much as I like Douglas I think moving Douglas is the next step you have to take to improve this team. Trade Douglas, Balkman and Walker for Ramon Sessions and Samardo Samuels is the move I want to see made it gives us a good backup PG and another center which we need. A center who is athletic and plays D
I'm with on you're first two points but I wouldn't trade Dougie for Sessions, at least not until the new CBA makes it impossible for us to get a 3rd max cat. Next summer is the next time we'll have any cap space to play with, so for now we need to stay as flexible as we can and hope the CBA lets us make as big of a splash as we can. From there we can start taking on long term contracts for role players to round out the team, but this year we can't go out acquire long term contracts.

I still think we need a Center to pair with Turiaf, Harrelson and Jordan in our Center by committee, but I'm comfortable with our back court. Billups, Dougie, Shumpert and Fields is a good group to go with Melo and Stat in the front court. We'll be weak at center again this season, but our perimeter D should be better and our o shouldn't sputter like it did last postseason when Amar'e went down. Next year we get to make a big splash and hopefully at that point we'll be true contenders or at least just some tweaks away from contending. Right now we're still to young around our big 3.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-26-2011, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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I'm with on you're first two points but I wouldn't trade Dougie for Sessions, at least not until the new CBA makes it impossible for us to get a 3rd max cat. Next summer is the next time we'll have any cap space to play with, so for now we need to stay as flexible as we can and hope the CBA lets us make as big of a splash as we can. From there we can start taking on long term contracts for role players to round out the team, but this year we can't go out acquire long term contracts.

I still think we need a Center to pair with Turiaf, Harrelson and Jordan in our Center by committee, but I'm comfortable with our back court. Billups, Dougie, Shumpert and Fields is a good group to go with Melo and Stat in the front court. We'll be weak at center again this season, but our perimeter D should be better and our o shouldn't sputter like it did last postseason when Amar'e went down. Next year we get to make a big splash and hopefully at that point we'll be true contenders or at least just some tweaks away from contending. Right now we're still to young around our big 3.
I easily would trade Dougie for Sessions. I am not worried about Sessions contract cause even with the 2012 plan you can still move Sessions after he improves his value under D'antoni. Just look at what happened recently with Felton. Felton's value got pumped enough for us to be able to make the Melo deal. I think the same can be done with Sessions.

Sessions is a much better PG then Douglas and we need someone who can actually come off the bench and run a pick and roll something that Toney still is struggling with.

Also you got a center to add to the committee with Samardo Samuels. I think it is the best deal to make for us right now and it doesn't have a huge negative affect that they can not be moved either during the deadline or before FA.

Our perimeter D is still going to be blehhh especially with Billups.
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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Because Jared Jeffries, Ronny Turiaf, Iman Shumpert and Raja Bell are such offensive dynamo's? Yeah, mike won't play guys who disrupt our own offense, but all a defender needs to do to satisfy mike is not chuck up stupid shots, not try too do too much and pass the ball to someone who's not offensively useless. He's a smart coach, he knows how he wants to play, and given who our stars are it's not a bad call, but the people who ***** about him not caring about D are stupid, he does, he's just not as adept at coaching it as he is offense. Then again that'll probably change once he wins his first ring because Rick Carlisle's defenses where a joke with Detroit just 7 years ago and now he's getting credit as one of the best coaches in the league.
Getting some defensive specialists on the team and coaching defense are 2 completely different things. Everyone who has been around D'Antoni has always stated that he needs a defensive assistant to coach defense bc he doesn't coach it.

Kerr had to force him to coach defense in practices bc he never did. Just watch the Knicks play d and you can see how painfully obvious it is that they don't practice defense. They don't even bump guys to the basket. It's a clear lane every time followed by Stat or Turiaf just trying to swat it at the hoop. Now one clogs any lanes, no help defense, no switches, nothing. Guys don't even box out for rebounds. It's sad.

Fundamentals on defense are severely lacking on our team. And D'Antoni is absolutely to blame for that.
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Old 10-21-2011, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/stor...ew-york-knicks

It has begun. Oh wait, no it hasn't. Bc we won't have a season. Darn.
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Old 10-21-2011, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Even when the NBA comes back I doubt the CBA will work in our favor.
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Old 10-21-2011, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Yeah the new CBA won't be in our favor. Dan Gilbert is making sure of it.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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It's that time of year!

After sleeping on it, I've gotten over the whole CP3 thing. Yes, signing Chandler hurts our chances of landing CP3 or Deron, both of whom seem to be long shots at this point anyway, but it does make our front court pretty bad ass.

As long as Stat and Melo are also on board with a stronger commitment to defense, our front court could be one of the best if not the best in the league.

And if we can use the wrinkle in the new CBA to sign Felton in the offseason, we could be set. Yes, Felton isn't CP3 or Deron, but he's a damn good consolation prize.

Having a real center + Felton could wind up being a much better fit than just CP3 or Deron.

That 58 million dollar price tag is killing me though. That's too much money for a Center who can't score and is often injured.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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Chandler is exactly what I wanted, as I've said before. I want my super stars to be SF and PF (we have that) a defense and rebounding center (hi Chandler), a sharpshooter at the 2 and a pass first and defense PG.

We have the hard parts done, I'm feeling good for the first time in years.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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Chandler is exactly what I wanted, as I've said before. I want my super stars to be SF and PF (we have that) a defense and rebounding center (hi Chandler), a sharpshooter at the 2 and a pass first and defense PG.

We have the hard parts done, I'm feeling good for the first time in years.
I prefer 1 front court star and 1 back court star. Having both in the front court is a log jam.

I LOVE Stat though, and I don't want to let him go. He's the guy that started this whole thing.

I really think this will all come down to if we can lure Felton back here. The guy is a backup PG in Denver, he doesn't want to be there. If we can restructure enough to get him back next year, maybe even trade for him (I know that's unrealistic though), then we'll be set.

Bc Felton is a very underrated PG. He's not a star, but he's one notch below that. Hopefully Fields worked on his jumpshot this offseason too.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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I prefer 1 front court star and 1 back court star. Having both in the front court is a log jam.

I LOVE Stat though, and I don't want to let him go. He's the guy that started this whole thing.

I really think this will all come down to if we can lure Felton back here. The guy is a backup PG in Denver, he doesn't want to be there. If we can restructure enough to get him back next year, maybe even trade for him (I know that's unrealistic though), then we'll be set.

Bc Felton is a very underrated PG. He's not a star, but he's one notch below that. Hopefully Fields worked on his jumpshot this offseason too.
I didn't know this thread existed....I will be a regular around these parts. I think Chandler is just what we needed and the contract isn't bad at all. Injury concerns are there, but those aside, I thought he would get close to $70 million over 4 from someone.

Chandler, at the very least, will make Amare a more effective defender. Melo is just down to effort, so thats more of a team culture thing, but Chandler protecting the ring and holding down the paint allows Amare to play a rover, Polomalu, kinda role hunting down blocks and making athletic plays. Amare is never going to be a great defender, but he can make great defensive plays......Chandler allows him to do more of this.

We do need a PG, but between Felton and Nash, I think we get one. If it's Nash, we let Shumpert log some decent minutes to help mitigate the impact of his awful defense. Shumpert is going to be a fantastic defender.

At the 2, I like Fields more as a bench player to provide instant energy, hustle plays, and rebounding. We need a sharpshooter there, no doubt. This will take care of itself though, if the NY Knicks are trotting out Nash/Felton-???-Melo--Amare--Chandler, ring hunting vets will be willing to play for less.

I really like the direction this team is going.

P.S. I love STAT, but if trading him meant getting Chris Paul or Deron Williams or Dwight, I absolutely do it. It seems that that option is totally off the table now, but in the event that the issue re-arrises: Paul is just flat out better than STAT and both have injury concerns. Deron is at least as good and doesn't have the same injury worries. D12 is just the man, no player I would rather have in the entire NBA. It sucks that he started everything in NY, but you just gotta pull the trigger there.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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I like the Chandler signing as well. As someone mentioned above, he's a true rebounding and defensive center which is exactly what we need.

And I would love if we could bring Felton back.
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Old 12-09-2011, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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For 58 million though? That's the part that's killing me. I think this is a good move only if we can grab Felton.

I don't want Nash. Old and doesn't play defense.
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Old 12-09-2011, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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For 58 million though? That's the part that's killing me. I think this is a good move only if we can grab Felton.

I don't want Nash. Old and doesn't play defense.
58 is not that terrible. It really isn't. The guy was the 2nd most important player on a NBA Finals winning team. Only reason you question the dollars is injury concerns. I have those concerns, but sometimes you have to make that leap of faith. Any less money and we don't get him. Centers are ******* valuable, more valuable than any other position by far.

I don't love Bill Simmons, but this puts the importance of having a center in perspective: "remember, no team has won a title without a solid center since the '98 Bulls (and they had some guy named Michael). The past 12 champs had David Robinson, Shaq (three straight Laker titles), Robinson (and really, Duncan), Ben Wallace, Duncan again, Shaq (Miami), Duncan a third time, Kendrick Perkins, Pau Gasol/Andrew Bynum (twice) and Chandler (with Brendan Haywood). "
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Old 12-09-2011, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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58 is not that terrible. It really isn't. The guy was the 2nd most important player on a NBA Finals winning team. Only reason you question the dollars is injury concerns. I have those concerns, but sometimes you have to make that leap of faith. Any less money and we don't get him. Centers are ******* valuable, more valuable than any other position by far.

I don't love Bill Simmons, but this puts the importance of having a center in perspective: "remember, no team has won a title without a solid center since the '98 Bulls (and they had some guy named Michael). The past 12 champs had David Robinson, Shaq (three straight Laker titles), Robinson (and really, Duncan), Ben Wallace, Duncan again, Shaq (Miami), Duncan a third time, Kendrick Perkins, Pau Gasol/Andrew Bynum (twice) and Chandler (with Brendan Haywood). "
Aren't you worried about the whole "overachieve your contract year then turn the switch off" syndrome?

That scares me.
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Old 12-09-2011, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Aren't you worried about the whole "overachieve your contract year then turn the switch off" syndrome?

That scares me.
I'm only worried about injuries. Here's why: Knicks will be contenders (we won't win a title, but still). Ty won't switch off on a competitive team because he is one of the most competitive guys in the league and will want to go for another title. If the Nets (or another non-contender) signed him, they would still be very meh and I could see him switching off maybe. Not worried about it here though.

EDIT: I could be dead wrong here, but I have never watched Ty play and thought, "this guy is gonna mail it in when he gets paid." I do think that when I watch Marc Gasol, however. Ty is just too much of a leader.
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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We did overpay him about 4 or 5 million per year. He is also does have a history of under performing after getting a big contract in Chicago. Hopefully he plays up to his deal cause as it has been said by millions on paper he fills a huge need.

I am worried though. Cause we have no PG and not the greatest depth behind Chandler if his toe ends up being a problem again.
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