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Old 08-07-2011, 10:31 AM    (permalink
pocketaces
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Lets hear it!! What is everybodys predictions for 2011?

I say we go 10-6 and make the playoffs

I say we have a top 10 Offense and top 15 Defense

I say we are top 5 in sacks

I say Dez and Miles combine for 20+ TDs

I say Choice is traded/cut before week 1

I say we pickup another Olineman despite what Jerry says

Romo will be comeback player of the year

Ware will be named Defensive MVP

Bennett will finally reach his potential

We will beat the Iggles (at least once)

Your turn...
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Old 08-08-2011, 08:44 AM    (permalink
leroyisgod
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Lets hear it!! What is everybodys predictions for 2011?

I say we go 10-6 and make the playoffs

I say we have a top 10 Offense and top 15 Defense

I say we are top 5 in sacks

I say Dez and Miles combine for 20+ TDs

I say Choice is traded/cut before week 1

I say we pickup another Olineman despite what Jerry says

Romo will be comeback player of the year

Ware will be named Defensive MVP

Bennett will finally reach his potential

We will beat the Iggles (at least once)

Your turn...
I like your positivity. I'll wait to give any predictions until after a few preseason games.
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Old 08-08-2011, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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11-5 at best...9-7 at worst....The team is just too up and down year to year for me to even try to gauge win's and losses. I think they're humbled, and hungry...

Top 5 Offense for sure, as long as Romo stays healthy I think the offense can play with anyone. I know this sounds crazy, but I think it'll be a record breaking offense. Much like the year TO and Romo went crazy, JG's first year right?

Dez with 1200+ yards and 10 TD's.
Austin with 1000 or so yards and 8-10 TD's.
Witten with 700 and 6 TD's.

Defense has issues early in the season and comes into its own around Thanksgiving. Top 15...maybe...depends on how healthy Newman is. I think Scandrick plays well for a game or two in his place though.

Felix will finally live up to expectations...1500+ total yards....shows that breakneck speed again, behind a more mobile line.

Ware will be Ware, 10+ sacks.

Ratliff & Lee will have the biggest impact under Rob Ryan....probowl seasons.
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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with slightly less overall team talent, a mediocre defense, no depth on our offensive line, and better coaching i imagine a mediocre Dallas team with a 9-7 record and we just barely miss the last wild card spot due to tiebreakers with the Chicago Bears. We lose twice to the eagles, once to the giants, jets, patriots, and surprisingly to the Lions and Buccaneers. The offense will score, but The secondary is going to struggle all year giving up big plays though the defense will also generate more turnovers than last years unit.

Sean Lee has a break out season as does Martellus Bennett, but Anthony Spencer is back to his average ways.

In the offseason, Dallas decides not to resign Spencer and ends up losing Martellus Bennett in free agency when they are unable to pay up and guarantee a starting spot over Witten. Dallas drafts 18 and they decide to use most of the draft rebuilding the defense as they are unable to bring in much talent through FA due to their salary cap situation.

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Old 08-09-2011, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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Tashard Choice won't be a cowboy by the time the regular season comes around. Not that bold of a prediction but I don't think non-cowboy fans realize he's the 4th best RB on our roster.
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Old 08-09-2011, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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Lonyae hasn't proved jack crap. I'm not jumping on the bandwagon based off a few practice sessions. How can we even say Demarco is better than Choice? I swear the Cowboys hype machine ALWAYS sways people's opinions into crazy directions.

I mean Sam Young was so awesome last year and I heard guys saying he was the swing tackle of the future. LOL. He was putrid at ND and by drafting him the Cowboys showed how stupid bad their ability to grade OL is. This is the team that drafted Robert Brewster in the 3rd round. Oh boy. They even fooled me in thinking he might turn out to be half way decent. Fool me once, shame on you.... fool me twice, thrice, 4x, 5x... shame on me!!!

Oh and back to Choice... We don't have another RB on the roster that plays with half his heart. ...and the return we'd get back in a trade would be borderline pitiful because teams don't invest highly in RBs these days.

Last edited by D-Unit : 08-09-2011 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:02 AM    (permalink
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Lonyae hasn't proved jack crap. I'm not jumping on the bandwagon based off a few practice sessions. How can we even say Demarco is better than Choice? I swear the Cowboys hype machine ALWAYS sways people's opinions into crazy directions.

I mean Sam Young was so awesome last year and I heard guys saying he was the swing tackle of the future. LOL. He was putrid at ND and by drafting him the Cowboys showed how stupid bad their ability to grade OL is. This is the team that drafted Robert Brewster in the 3rd round. Oh boy. They even fooled me in thinking he might turn out to be half way decent. Fool me once, shame on you.... fool me twice, thrice, 4x, 5x... shame on me!!!

Oh and back to Choice... We don't have another RB on the roster that plays with half his heart. ...and the return we'd get back in a trade would be borderline pitiful because teams don't invest highly in RBs these days.
Heart means nothing when you don't fit the style of play. Choice CANNOT pass protect. It's the reason he doesn't see the field with Garrett. So because he has a ton of heart we should keep him despite having every intention of letting him ride the pine because of his refusal/inability to learn how to pass protect?

*sigh* The Choice love is completely driven by the 'Cowboys hype machine' as well...he had what 2 games where he showed potential? He doesn't fit Garrett's offense and completely lacks the mental capacity to develop into the scheme (as proven by his continued problems in pass protection).

But on topic...

*Alex Albright will beat out Brandon Williams for a roster spot.

*Holley will be shown the door after one of our young guns break out in preseason (Lyle Leong or Raymond Radway)

*Dallas will move forward with Buehler/or a vet kicker and not a new young guy (Forbath/Bailey)

*Dallas will earn one of the wild-cards this season.

Last edited by Trogdor : 08-10-2011 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Heart means nothing when you don't fit the style of play. Choice CANNOT pass protect. It's the reason he doesn't see the field with Garrett. So because he has a ton of heart we should keep him despite having every intention of letting him ride the pine because of his refusal/inability to learn how to pass protect?

*sigh* The Choice love is completely driven by the 'Cowboys hype machine' as well...he had what 2 games where he showed potential? He doesn't fit Garrett's offense and completely lacks the mental capacity to develop into the scheme (as proven by his continued problems in pass protection).

But on topic...

*Alex Albright will beat out Brandon Williams for a roster spot.

*Holley will be shown the door after one of our young guns break out in preseason (Lyle Leong or Raymond Radway)

*Dallas will move forward with Buehler/or a vet kicker and not a new young guy (Forbath/Bailey)

*Dallas will earn one of the wild-cards this season.
Refusal...Inability to learn how to pass block??? What is that? Your incorrect opinion spun as fact?

Choice has in fact gotten better in pass blocking than when he first came here. Last season he only gave up 2 QB pressures. Drastic improvement.

Let me quote some facts (this is from Bloggingtheboys.com):

Quote:
To qualify for PFF's top 15 or bottom 15 list, running backs are required to have stayed in to block at least 60 times in 2010. Neither Marion Barber nor Tashard Choice qualify for the list, as they have 49 and 43 pass protection snaps respectively. But we can still calculate their PBE with the following formula:

Pass Blocking Efficiency = (Sacks + (0.75 * Hits) + (0.75 * Hurries)) / Pass Protection Snaps * 100

Marion Barber gave up five pressures, including two sacks, on his 49 pass blocking snaps, resulting in a less than stellar 8.67 PBE. That number would rank Barber the seventh worst RB on PFF's bottom 15 list.

Tashard Choice allowed only two pressures on his pass blocking snaps for a PBE of 3.49, which would be good enough for 11th on PFF's top 15 list.
Last year, Garrett once again severely underused Choice. When he finally got touches in that game at Indy, Choice had over 100 yards and a TD as our team pulled out a tough win.

I'll tell you why I think that Choice doesn't get reps. Between Garrett not wanting to run in the first place... Garrett is more interested in flash over substance. The idea that Felix will rip off a 25 yard run has him brainwashed. I can't see any other reason. Felix was the main back every game and only had one 100 yard game...oh and btw, 1 TD all year. Choice had a 100 yard game and in the next game only got 7 touches. lol. It simply spells favoritism over merrit to me.

Heart means nothing when you don't fit the style of play??? Huh? Now that's just ridiculous talk. Give me a guy with heart and guts who puts it on the line... AND PROVES that when you give him a chance that he is successful....

I adjust the game plan for that guy. That's what good coaches do. Shoot, Choice has even proven to be a good receiver at the position. Your overzealous attempt to bash him as a pass protector is unwarranted and based off false claims. If you think he's only had 2 good games in his career, then I think you're a casual fan who doesn't pay close enough attention... you can't just base your opinion off the latest Cowboys Fan Club Media Guide ya know.

Felix Jones is just way too overrated for my liking around these parts. IMO, the only thing he's proven is that he's a good change of pace back, who needs fresh legs to keep his burst. Oh and he's a good kick returner too.

I have yet to see Miller in a real pro game situation, so I'm holding off on my opinion of him. I saw him at Fresno, and he never dropped my jaws before...but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Choice is simply the scapegoat of an excited fanbase who's jumped on the latest and greatest bandwagon of the RB (Miller) who's currently getting a ton of reps in practice and doing well against a defense that is trying not to injure him.
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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Refusal...Inability to learn how to pass block??? What is that? Your incorrect opinion spun as fact?

Choice has in fact gotten better in pass blocking than when he first came here. Last season he only gave up 2 QB pressures. Drastic improvement.

Let me quote some facts (this is from Bloggingtheboys.com):



Last year, Garrett once again severely underused Choice. When he finally got touches in that game at Indy, Choice had over 100 yards and a TD as our team pulled out a tough win.

I'll tell you why I think that Choice doesn't get reps. Between Garrett not wanting to run in the first place... Garrett is more interested in flash over substance. The idea that Felix will rip off a 25 yard run has him brainwashed. I can't see any other reason. Felix was the main back every game and only had one 100 yard game...oh and btw, 1 TD all year. Choice had a 100 yard game and in the next game only got 7 touches. lol. It simply spells favoritism over merrit to me.

Heart means nothing when you don't fit the style of play??? Huh? Now that's just ridiculous talk. Give me a guy with heart and guts who puts it on the line... AND PROVES that when you give him a chance that he is successful....

I adjust the game plan for that guy. That's what good coaches do. Shoot, Choice has even proven to be a good receiver at the position. Your overzealous attempt to bash him as a pass protector is unwarranted and based off false claims. If you think he's only had 2 good games in his career, then I think you're a casual fan who doesn't pay close enough attention... you can't just base your opinion off the latest Cowboys Fan Club Media Guide ya know.

Felix Jones is just way too overrated for my liking around these parts. IMO, the only thing he's proven is that he's a good change of pace back, who needs fresh legs to keep his burst. Oh and he's a good kick returner too.

I have yet to see Miller in a real pro game situation, so I'm holding off on my opinion of him. I saw him at Fresno, and he never dropped my jaws before...but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Choice is simply the scapegoat of an excited fanbase who's jumped on the latest and greatest bandwagon of the RB (Miller) who's currently getting a ton of reps in practice and doing well against a defense that is trying not to injure him.
I personally like Choice and feel he'd be a good compliment to Jones. Each has their own style of running. I feel the 2 of them combined is a top 8 tandem in the league, if not better.
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Old 08-10-2011, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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I personally like Choice and feel he'd be a good compliment to Jones. Each has their own style of running. I feel the 2 of them combined is a top 8 tandem in the league, if not better.
Choice is our best North-South runner until Miller proves otherwise... but right now, Miller is still the guy I consider the one trying to earn a spot higher than the practice squad.

My predictions:

- John Phillips is going to have a breakout season. Martellus Bennett will leave us scratching our heads once again.

- Gurode will have a year like Olin Kruetz did last season. ...and share the same fate.

- By end of year, Demarco Murray will make people question whether Felix Jones our best trade bait.

- Rob Ryan is the real MVP of the team.

- Josh Brent is going to have a huge season and solidify himself as a core player on this defense for years to come.

- Victor Butler becomes a bigger star than Anthony Spencer.

- Mike Jenkins is the comeback player of the year.

- Newman is a shell of himself.

- Elam earns a new contract. Sensy does not.

Final Record: 9-7, miss playoffs.
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Old 08-10-2011, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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Refusal...Inability to learn how to pass block??? What is that? Your incorrect opinion spun as fact?

Choice has in fact gotten better in pass blocking than when he first came here. Last season he only gave up 2 QB pressures. Drastic improvement.

Let me quote some facts (this is from Bloggingtheboys.com):



Last year, Garrett once again severely underused Choice. When he finally got touches in that game at Indy, Choice had over 100 yards and a TD as our team pulled out a tough win.

I'll tell you why I think that Choice doesn't get reps. Between Garrett not wanting to run in the first place... Garrett is more interested in flash over substance. The idea that Felix will rip off a 25 yard run has him brainwashed. I can't see any other reason. Felix was the main back every game and only had one 100 yard game...oh and btw, 1 TD all year. Choice had a 100 yard game and in the next game only got 7 touches. lol. It simply spells favoritism over merrit to me.

Heart means nothing when you don't fit the style of play??? Huh? Now that's just ridiculous talk. Give me a guy with heart and guts who puts it on the line... AND PROVES that when you give him a chance that he is successful....

I adjust the game plan for that guy. That's what good coaches do. Shoot, Choice has even proven to be a good receiver at the position. Your overzealous attempt to bash him as a pass protector is unwarranted and based off false claims. If you think he's only had 2 good games in his career, then I think you're a casual fan who doesn't pay close enough attention... you can't just base your opinion off the latest Cowboys Fan Club Media Guide ya know.

Felix Jones is just way too overrated for my liking around these parts. IMO, the only thing he's proven is that he's a good change of pace back, who needs fresh legs to keep his burst. Oh and he's a good kick returner too.

I have yet to see Miller in a real pro game situation, so I'm holding off on my opinion of him. I saw him at Fresno, and he never dropped my jaws before...but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Choice is simply the scapegoat of an excited fanbase who's jumped on the latest and greatest bandwagon of the RB (Miller) who's currently getting a ton of reps in practice and doing well against a defense that is trying not to injure him.
First off using a super small sample size and then comparing it across the NFL is hardly a strong measure. Over 3 years he's one of the worst. Is he still strong enough in pass protection to start or even be on the field during passing downs? No.

Another fun stat: Tashard Choice has the lowest broken tackle rate of all backs. The FO game charters saw him break only two tackles on 83 touches (66 carries and 17 catches) for a league low 2.4% broken tackle rate.

Same article. Hardly a 'strong' north-south running if he can't even break a tackle. I call things as I see them rather than see them through rose tinted glasses. My opinion isn't based off the fan club circuit either. Miller was having an impact on the PS last season and merited a call up to the main squad. He's looked well from ALL accounts aside from those who feel Choice is somehow worthy of being an NFL starter.

Full picture of Choice isn't one of someone underrated... it's overrated. Proves he's worth the carries? That was a nice extra yard he fought for on a game changing fumble as time expired.
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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First off using a super small sample size and then comparing it across the NFL is hardly a strong measure. Over 3 years he's one of the worst. Is he still strong enough in pass protection to start or even be on the field during passing downs? No.

Another fun stat: Tashard Choice has the lowest broken tackle rate of all backs. The FO game charters saw him break only two tackles on 83 touches (66 carries and 17 catches) for a league low 2.4% broken tackle rate.

Same article. Hardly a 'strong' north-south running if he can't even break a tackle. I call things as I see them rather than see them through rose tinted glasses. My opinion isn't based off the fan club circuit either. Miller was having an impact on the PS last season and merited a call up to the main squad. He's looked well from ALL accounts aside from those who feel Choice is somehow worthy of being an NFL starter.

Full picture of Choice isn't one of someone underrated... it's overrated. Proves he's worth the carries? That was a nice extra yard he fought for on a game changing fumble as time expired.
Your entire opinion of Miller is based off what he's doing in practice. NUFCED.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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Your entire opinion of Miller is based off what he's doing in practice. NUFCED.
And your argument is based on 2 games over the course of a career... Lets grade Tony Romo on a two game selection to display his horrid abilities. We should release him:

13/29 127 yards 1 TD - 3 INT 29.6 Passer Rating
13/36 214 yards 0 TD - 3 INT 22.2 Passer Rating

Looking at these game lines how is he even in the NFL anymore ^_^

But back to your misplaced point. My argument was NOT pro-Miller. It was ANTI-Choice. I said he isn't a fit for the offense and IMHO isn't talented enough to warrant consideration as a starter for the Cowboys. Instead of focusing on the point I was making about Choice you decided to attack the view that I base my opinions off the media circus, practices, and scrimmages...

Big picture on Choice. He STILL isn't able to pass protect, he CAN'T break tackles (funny considering he's supposed to be a 'north-south' back, he doesn't have the trust of the head coach, even before factoring there may/may not be potential sitting behind him warrants taking any trade offers that may fall into our laps. To be completely honest I'm curious how you attack opinions of others claiming it is based on the media/practices (even when totally off-base) when you are only factoring Choice's rare few solid performances and ignoring his inadequate qualities.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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Shaun Chapas will make the team and play a pivotal role in the success of the running game.

The season starts with four RB's on the 53 man roster. Miller will make the team based on special teams play and potential. Choice makes the team based upon inj concerns to Murray and Felix.

If Kosier starts at right guard Tyron will have a 2010 Doug Free like season.... if Holland starts at right guard Smith looks like a bust.

Bennett will show flashes of greatness and then will be traded accordingly.

Abe Elam will prove to be the best signing of the offseason.

Igor will be demoted to bottom of the DE rotation.

If healthy, Newman is going to have a comeback season, not as a lock down corner but as a rover... Ryan is going to line him up all over and disguise coverages including some looks at FS.

Phil Costa will push Gurode for his job.

Brent will spit NT 50-50 with Ratliff.. Jay sees time at both end positions and under takle in nickle situations bumping his sack total to 10+.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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And your argument is based on 2 games over the course of a career... Lets grade Tony Romo on a two game selection to display his horrid abilities. We should release him:

13/29 127 yards 1 TD - 3 INT 29.6 Passer Rating
13/36 214 yards 0 TD - 3 INT 22.2 Passer Rating

Looking at these game lines how is he even in the NFL anymore ^_^

But back to your misplaced point. My argument was NOT pro-Miller. It was ANTI-Choice. I said he isn't a fit for the offense and IMHO isn't talented enough to warrant consideration as a starter for the Cowboys. Instead of focusing on the point I was making about Choice you decided to attack the view that I base my opinions off the media circus, practices, and scrimmages...

Big picture on Choice. He STILL isn't able to pass protect, he CAN'T break tackles (funny considering he's supposed to be a 'north-south' back, he doesn't have the trust of the head coach, even before factoring there may/may not be potential sitting behind him warrants taking any trade offers that may fall into our laps. To be completely honest I'm curious how you attack opinions of others claiming it is based on the media/practices (even when totally off-base) when you are only factoring Choice's rare few solid performances and ignoring his inadequate qualities.
The fact that you keep saying Choice has only had 2 good games in his career is baffling to me. Quite frankly, I don't think you know what you're talking about. He has shown improvement in pass protection. I don't know what's debatable about that. You that upset with his 2 QB pressures from last year? What? Do you remember them or something? lol.
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Old 08-11-2011, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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The fact that you keep saying Choice has only had 2 good games in his career is baffling to me. Quite frankly, I don't think you know what you're talking about. He has shown improvement in pass protection. I don't know what's debatable about that. You that upset with his 2 QB pressures from last year? What? Do you remember them or something? lol.
Not going to even bother D-Unit. Your opinions are obviously facts not to be discussed. You haven't presented anything aside from one empty statistic along with a couple insults and a couple changing of topics. I'm not sure I'm the one who doesn't understand what is being discussed :) BTW you still haven't touched the fact he's one of the worst in the NFL at breaking tackles despite you calling him a 'north-south' runner.

I'll drop it because it's obvious you didn't want a discussion you simply wanted to attack anyone with a viewpoint other than yours :P
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Old 08-11-2011, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Not going to even bother D-Unit. Your opinions are obviously facts not to be discussed. You haven't presented anything aside from one empty statistic along with a couple insults and a couple changing of topics. I'm not sure I'm the one who doesn't understand what is being discussed :) BTW you still haven't touched the fact he's one of the worst in the NFL at breaking tackles despite you calling him a 'north-south' runner.

I'll drop it because it's obvious you didn't want a discussion you simply wanted to attack anyone with a viewpoint other than yours :P
OK, I went back to take a second look at our conversation and I can see how you might've thought I was changing the subject by quoting your post and then going on to talk about Miller. I can see that you were never a part of the Lonyae Miller conversation. You were only talking about Choice. But you have to understand that I first started talking about Choice and Miller, and then you responded to me. So my frame of mind was always about Choice vs Miller. I didn't pick up that you weren't all about Miller. So if it seemed like I was talking about something irrelevant to our conversation, then that is my reasoning.

That said... I'd argue you did the same thing when you started talking about Tony Romo.

If we're just talking about Pro-Choice, Anti-Choice, then these are the points being made:

Choice's skills as a pass protector.
- Yea, I definitely agree that he's had issues with that in the past. He was clueless entering the league. Where we disagree on is that, I think he's shown improvement, where you don't think he has at all. When I showed proof of his improvement, you counter that by saying, ya but his first 2 years were bad (which is irrelevant since we're not talking about the past, but rather signs of improvement) and you also point out how small a sampling that it was.


Choice as a North-South runner.
- OK, my point is not about him being one of the best N-S runners in the league. Just that out of the guys we have on the roster now, that he's the best we have (that is proven). So you're point that he doesn't break enough tackles to be a good N-S runner has to be taken in consideration in comparative sakes against the other RBs that we have. ...and since we have no data on Murray and Miller against live NFL bullets, then we're talking about Choice vs Jones. IMO, he's better at hitting the holes and going N-S, than Felix. If you want to counter that, then I'm willing to hear you out to see if you can change my mind.

- I'd also like to point out that your stat on his tackles broken... well, just like you wanted to discredit my proof on him improving as a pass blocker because of a small sampling size... Is it fair to then use that same logic here? That the sampling size is too small?

- Additionally, being a N-S runner is not just about breaking tackles. He's not a push the pile type of power runner. If that's your definition of it, then yeah, I think we're talking apples and oranges. Because that stat on breaking tackles is not the tell all, end all that defines a N-S runner in my opinion at least. The thing that makes Choice such a solid N-S runner is his vision through the hole. He has a good way of following his blockers, finding the gaps in the middle of traffic and hitting them quickly. He's moves with an inate ability to see and move with surety and determination. His running IQ is extremely high. He seems to understand the plays, where his blockers need to be, where the defense is and where he needs to be. I credit that to his experience at Georgia Tech where they ran the ball so much. ...which conversely hurt him in his pass blocking skills coming out.


Choice being a bad fit for Garrett's offense
- This is more a knock on Garrett than it is Choice, imo. I think good coaches can adapt to the strengths of their players. I think good coaches can coach up their players to better fit their philosophies too. What I've seen of Garrett is neither. Just simple avoidance is his decision.
- Because Choice does display ability to get the job done when his number is called and he does play with a lot of heart. It's been hard for him to sit and watch, but for the most part he's done things the right way by not being a lockerroom distraction and constant complainer.
- I know you brought up his fumble, but I don't think that's fair to let that define him as a player.

...and lastly, I don't know why you're taking this so personal. It's not like we have a history of doing this kind of dance together. It might seem like an attack that I question whether you have seen Choice play enough... but I can't understand it any other way if you think he's only had 2 good games in a Cowboys jersey. *shrugs*
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Old 08-11-2011, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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OK, I went back to take a second look at our conversation and I can see how you might've thought I was changing the subject by quoting your post and then going on to talk about Miller. I can see that you were never a part of the Lonyae Miller conversation. You were only talking about Choice. But you have to understand that I first started talking about Choice and Miller, and then you responded to me. So my frame of mind was always about Choice vs Miller. I didn't pick up that you weren't all about Miller. So if it seemed like I was talking about something irrelevant to our conversation, then that is my reasoning.

That said... I'd argue you did the same thing when you started talking about Tony Romo.

If we're just talking about Pro-Choice, Anti-Choice, then these are the points being made:

Choice's skills as a pass protector.
- Yea, I definitely agree that he's had issues with that in the past. He was clueless entering the league. Where we disagree on is that, I think he's shown improvement, where you don't think he has at all. When I showed proof of his improvement, you counter that by saying, ya but his first 2 years were bad (which is irrelevant since we're not talking about the past, but rather signs of improvement) and you also point out how small a sampling that it was.


Choice as a North-South runner.
- OK, my point is not about him being one of the best N-S runners in the league. Just that out of the guys we have on the roster now, that he's the best we have (that is proven). So you're point that he doesn't break enough tackles to be a good N-S runner has to be taken in consideration in comparative sakes against the other RBs that we have. ...and since we have no data on Murray and Miller against live NFL bullets, then we're talking about Choice vs Jones. IMO, he's better at hitting the holes and going N-S, than Felix. If you want to counter that, then I'm willing to hear you out to see if you can change my mind.

- I'd also like to point out that your stat on his tackles broken... well, just like you wanted to discredit my proof on him improving as a pass blocker because of a small sampling size... Is it fair to then use that same logic here? That the sampling size is too small?

- Additionally, being a N-S runner is not just about breaking tackles. He's not a push the pile type of power runner. If that's your definition of it, then yeah, I think we're talking apples and oranges. Because that stat on breaking tackles is not the tell all, end all that defines a N-S runner in my opinion at least. The thing that makes Choice such a solid N-S runner is his vision through the hole. He has a good way of following his blockers, finding the gaps in the middle of traffic and hitting them quickly. He's moves with an inate ability to see and move with surety and determination. His running IQ is extremely high. He seems to understand the plays, where his blockers need to be, where the defense is and where he needs to be. I credit that to his experience at Georgia Tech where they ran the ball so much. ...which conversely hurt him in his pass blocking skills coming out.


Choice being a bad fit for Garrett's offense
- This is more a knock on Garrett than it is Choice, imo. I think good coaches can adapt to the strengths of their players. I think good coaches can coach up their players to better fit their philosophies too. What I've seen of Garrett is neither. Just simple avoidance is his decision.
- Because Choice does display ability to get the job done when his number is called and he does play with a lot of heart. It's been hard for him to sit and watch, but for the most part he's done things the right way by not being a lockerroom distraction and constant complainer.
- I know you brought up his fumble, but I don't think that's fair to let that define him as a player.

...and lastly, I don't know why you're taking this so personal. It's not like we have a history of doing this kind of dance together. It might seem like an attack that I question whether you have seen Choice play enough... but I can't understand it any other way if you think he's only had 2 good games in a Cowboys jersey. *shrugs*
YES! That was what I was hoping for from the start. This kind of banter helps everyone involved and leads to more stimulating discussion :D The Romo discussion was extreme hyperbole trying to reel the discussion back from irrelevant-land.


Pass protection I do concede he has improved HOWEVER he is nowhere near the level that would make me comfortable having him block for Romo on a blitz. In our offense he use versatile backs they have to be able to not only run, but catch and block as well. Choice was atrocious when he entered the league and hasn't shown the type of learning that would be expected of a high-IQ player (in that he still isn't fully capable of pass protection despite working with a consistent offense).

My major knock on Choice as a N-S runner is that while he gives it his all on every play he tends to be taken to the turf by a stiff breeze. He has EXCELLENT vision which leads to him finding the hole and hitting it without hesitation (agree with you there). When I'm thinking of a N-S runner I want a guy who hits the hole with a pop and will get you the needed yards even w/o a massive hole. I don't think Choice has that and I 100% with you that we don't have a N/S runner in Felix or Choice. I will say that when Felix hits a hole (he still has that hesitation that is holding him back) there is ALWAYS a chance he will slip the tackle and break a huge gain. With Choice as I mentioned he doesn't break tackles nor does he have the elusive breakaway speed after hitting the hole like Felix.

My point about scheme is that you tailor it based on both your players and your own strengths as a coach. Garrett is pass happy but with this roster it is 100% acceptable considering the weapons he has in place. Our play-action setup has to have enough time to strike the dagger and if the back on the play misses the blitz then Romo ends up watching from the sideline. I don't believe that Choice has made the most of his opportunities (in both a rushing sense as well as a blocking sense) which has led to him riding the pine. While my assertion that he only had 2 good games in his career was obviously unfair my expectations of Choice were much higher after his initial displays in 2008. Choice compared as an equal to Marion in the backfield when given opportunities (this is discounting pass protection) and both looked rather pedestrian in terms of gaining yards at a fair clip. (How much blame does our inept offense line take? - Fair question).

Felt like an attack so I questioned the comments. Nothing more :)
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Old 08-11-2011, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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YES! That was what I was hoping for from the start. This kind of banter helps everyone involved and leads to more stimulating discussion :D The Romo discussion was extreme hyperbole trying to reel the discussion back from irrelevant-land.


Pass protection I do concede he has improved HOWEVER he is nowhere near the level that would make me comfortable having him block for Romo on a blitz. In our offense he use versatile backs they have to be able to not only run, but catch and block as well. Choice was atrocious when he entered the league and hasn't shown the type of learning that would be expected of a high-IQ player (in that he still isn't fully capable of pass protection despite working with a consistent offense).

My major knock on Choice as a N-S runner is that while he gives it his all on every play he tends to be taken to the turf by a stiff breeze. He has EXCELLENT vision which leads to him finding the hole and hitting it without hesitation (agree with you there). When I'm thinking of a N-S runner I want a guy who hits the hole with a pop and will get you the needed yards even w/o a massive hole. I don't think Choice has that and I 100% with you that we don't have a N/S runner in Felix or Choice. I will say that when Felix hits a hole (he still has that hesitation that is holding him back) there is ALWAYS a chance he will slip the tackle and break a huge gain. With Choice as I mentioned he doesn't break tackles nor does he have the elusive breakaway speed after hitting the hole like Felix.

My point about scheme is that you tailor it based on both your players and your own strengths as a coach. Garrett is pass happy but with this roster it is 100% acceptable considering the weapons he has in place. Our play-action setup has to have enough time to strike the dagger and if the back on the play misses the blitz then Romo ends up watching from the sideline. I don't believe that Choice has made the most of his opportunities (in both a rushing sense as well as a blocking sense) which has led to him riding the pine. While my assertion that he only had 2 good games in his career was obviously unfair my expectations of Choice were much higher after his initial displays in 2008. Choice compared as an equal to Marion in the backfield when given opportunities (this is discounting pass protection) and both looked rather pedestrian in terms of gaining yards at a fair clip. (How much blame does our inept offense line take? - Fair question).

Felt like an attack so I questioned the comments. Nothing more :)
Good post. We don't have to agree and that's not my intent. You made good points, and we'll have to agree to disagree. I certainly don't think he's without weakness, but I do think he's being unfairly judged.

But seriously... your point about our OL. I really wish we had a dominant group. Happy and relieved that we've got our bookends of the future. I think both have Pro Powl potential. High hopes for Arkin too. The good thing too is that filling in the inside doesn't require 1st round picks! I'd like to see us address C next year. That will be a key position that I'll have fun watching. ... the bad thing is that with the youth of the group, there will be growing pains. I predict much more success for us next year than this year.

That's why I think my prediction of 9-7 is highly optimisitc.
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Old 08-11-2011, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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YES! That was what I was hoping for from the start. This kind of banter helps everyone involved and leads to more stimulating discussion :D The Romo discussion was extreme hyperbole trying to reel the discussion back from irrelevant-land.


Pass protection I do concede he has improved HOWEVER he is nowhere near the level that would make me comfortable having him block for Romo on a blitz. In our offense he use versatile backs they have to be able to not only run, but catch and block as well. Choice was atrocious when he entered the league and hasn't shown the type of learning that would be expected of a high-IQ player (in that he still isn't fully capable of pass protection despite working with a consistent offense).

My major knock on Choice as a N-S runner is that while he gives it his all on every play he tends to be taken to the turf by a stiff breeze. He has EXCELLENT vision which leads to him finding the hole and hitting it without hesitation (agree with you there). When I'm thinking of a N-S runner I want a guy who hits the hole with a pop and will get you the needed yards even w/o a massive hole. I don't think Choice has that and I 100% with you that we don't have a N/S runner in Felix or Choice. I will say that when Felix hits a hole (he still has that hesitation that is holding him back) there is ALWAYS a chance he will slip the tackle and break a huge gain. With Choice as I mentioned he doesn't break tackles nor does he have the elusive breakaway speed after hitting the hole like Felix.

My point about scheme is that you tailor it based on both your players and your own strengths as a coach. Garrett is pass happy but with this roster it is 100% acceptable considering the weapons he has in place. Our play-action setup has to have enough time to strike the dagger and if the back on the play misses the blitz then Romo ends up watching from the sideline. I don't believe that Choice has made the most of his opportunities (in both a rushing sense as well as a blocking sense) which has led to him riding the pine. While my assertion that he only had 2 good games in his career was obviously unfair my expectations of Choice were much higher after his initial displays in 2008. Choice compared as an equal to Marion in the backfield when given opportunities (this is discounting pass protection) and both looked rather pedestrian in terms of gaining yards at a fair clip. (How much blame does our inept offense line take? - Fair question).

Felt like an attack so I questioned the comments. Nothing more :)
All of this talk of pass protection has just made me remember a very valid point... What is Chris Gronkowski still doing on the team.. he single handedly blew his pass protection assignment that lead to Romo's early vacation.
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Old 08-11-2011, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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Good post. We don't have to agree and that's not my intent. You made good points, and we'll have to agree to disagree. I certainly don't think he's without weakness, but I do think he's being unfairly judged.

But seriously... your point about our OL. I really wish we had a dominant group. Happy and relieved that we've got our bookends of the future. I think both have Pro Powl potential. High hopes for Arkin too. The good thing too is that filling in the inside doesn't require 1st round picks! I'd like to see us address C next year. That will be a key position that I'll have fun watching. ... the bad thing is that with the youth of the group, there will be growing pains. I predict much more success for us next year than this year.

That's why I think my prediction of 9-7 is highly optimisitc.
Sounds good. Our oline has been horrid :/ I love our oline prospects as well. I think Arkin may end up starting this year I'm not sure it's for the best though. I dislike that we are pinning our hopes on a rookie and Holland but unless a nice guard falls to waivers I'm not sure I like FAs anymore lol. Waters may be the best available but eh meh.

I hope we do target some C/Gs next year and I do think we're a year away from 'bigger' success. I think we'll sneak into the playoffs though this year.
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