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Old 08-14-2011, 12:08 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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I should add that add expansion moves are obviously greed moves, but in this case I think the negatives outweigh the potential revenue source.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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If the SEC expands to 16 teams, it won't even be fun to talk about who the best conference is anymore. The SEC will have the clear quality and quantity advantage over everyone. Just another example of college football slowly being ruined.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Kansas seems like a viable option for the Big 10. Makes a nice travel partner with Nebraska, member of the AAU, solid basketball/football program. Are the Jayhawks a potential candidate for the Big 10?
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Just another example of college football slowly being ruined.
College football is more popular now than it has ever been.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Kansas seems like a viable option for the Big 10. Makes a nice travel partner with Nebraska, member of the AAU, solid basketball/football program. Are the Jayhawks a potential candidate for the Big 10?
Kansas' football program is far from solid.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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Kansas' football program is far from solid.
Ok, I will change that to on par with Minny, Purdue, and Indiana.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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2) Adding Texas A&M won't necessarily expand the recruiting in Texas for the other SEC teams. You'd play one game every two years in College Station, which isn't really all that close to Dallas or Houston anyway. I can't imagine too many players that are hell bent on staying in Texas having that make much of a difference at all, especially when UT is still the big dog.

good post. however, it will really help recruiting in texas. Texas is all about the Big 12 and Big 12 football. Yes, teams will come every two years to college station. However, there will be much more exposure to SEC football in these areas from a TV standpoint, and many players will watch the SEC growing up, allowing this conference to be on an even playing field when they decide. Texas will always be king of the hill, but putting the SEC in Texas is HUGE. kids will now have to weigh more options, such as playing at prestigious Texas vs. playing in the best conference in America. Those teams that are already known in Texas in the SEC (UF, Alabama, Auburn) will be the first teams these kids look at cuz they already know about them from before, and now will get EVEN more looks cuz they will be able to turn on the television and watch them more often. I know im a bit redundant, but recruiting will drastically change imo
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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The SEC is already all over the TV. Is there really an exposure problem there?

If a kid is interested in staying in Texas, he's going to choose one of the five (possibly now six) BCS choices he has there, not go to South Carolina just because Texas A&M is now in the SEC. It makes no sense.

If, on the other hand, a kid is interested in making it in the NFL, he likely would have been very interested in teams like Alabama and LSU either way, and would have had PLENTY of opportunities to watch them on TV with or without the SEC physically being in the state of Texas.
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by devinhester=R.O.Y 2006 View Post
Ok, I will change that to on par with Minny, Purdue, and Indiana.
All-time football records:

Minnesota- .574
Purdue- .538
Kansas- .505


Also, if the Big Ten had to do it over again, I'm not entirely sure they would add Purdue or Indiana. I'm biased with Minnesota, but we're the only D1 school in our state, bring a huge media market, and have a lot of solid programs. If Notre Dame ever joins the Big Ten, that would be three teams in the state of Indiana, which is absurd.

If it wasn't for the public relations hit they would take, I'm sure the Big Ten would be glad to drop either Purdue or Indiana for Notre Dame.
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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College football is more popular now than it has ever been.
There's also more humans on the planet and in this country than there's ever been, more people watching TV and more access to colllege football in general than there's ever been.

Besides, my opinion on college football being ruined doesn't have anything to do with popularity.
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Besides, my opinion on college football being ruined doesn't have anything to do with popularity.
Honestly, why in the world do you think anyone would care what your personal opinion about college football is? I don't personally care for fly fishing, but I don't make posts about that.
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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I agree completely with you, bf51, about SEC expansion. Adding A&M doesn't bring anything to the SEC table that isn't already there except a new media market in Houston. Adding Oklahoma, even if it means adding Oklahoma State, would add more weigh to the positive category but even then how successful would OU be going against LSU, Alabama, Auburn, and Arkansas every year instead of Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor, etc...

An SEC schedule makes the road to the national championship harder for any team added to the SEC which one reason why Texas, OU and the rest of the Big XII are trying to make the conference work.

And about Notre Dame... I can understand why the Big Ten would want to bring them into the conference due to the prestige that university has but it really does nothing for recruiting or extending the conferences footprint. I can completely understand bringing in Missouri, Kansas, Maryland, and either Virginia, North Carolina, or Rutgers but Notre Dame doesn't offer much outside of enhancing the conferences reputation and revenue.
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Notre Dame doesn't offer much outside of enhancing the conferences reputation and revenue.
That kind of answers your own question. Reputation and Revenue. Also, they are a national team, with fans all over the place. Hence the NBC contract.
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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That kind of answers your own question. Reputation and Revenue. Also, they are a national team, with fans all over the place. Hence the NBC contract.
Understand that but to have 3 teams in the same state is overkill, ya know?
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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Don't kid yourself, Texas isn't interested in the SEC because academically the SEC is Vanderbilt and a bunch of glorified community colleges.

And yes, three teams in Indiana is overkill. A true cut-throat move would be to ditch Purdue, which is the weakest university on many levels in the Big Ten. Won't happen, however.
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Don't kid yourself, Texas isn't interested in the SEC because academically the SEC is Vanderbilt and a bunch of glorified community colleges.

And yes, three teams in Indiana is overkill. A true cut-throat move would be to ditch Purdue, which is the weakest university on many levels in the Big Ten. Won't happen, however.
Something that could happen is that Texas takes a stab at being independent but eventually winds up in the Pac12 with TCU, Baylor, and BYU.

I could see that playing out if Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State go to the SEC.
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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SEC has passed on A&M

Statement from Dr. Bernie Machen, Chair, Southeastern Conference Presidents and Chancellors:

“The SEC Presidents and Chancellors met today and reaffirmed our satisfaction with the present 12 institutional alignment. We recognize, however, that future conditions may make it advantageous to expand the number of institutions in the league. We discussed criteria and process associated with expansion. No action was taken with respect to any institution including Texas A&M.”
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, why in the world do you think anyone would care what your personal opinion about college football is? I don't personally care for fly fishing, but I don't make posts about that.
I don't care what you like and I don't care if you like my posts. Don't like it? Tough. :)

College football is being slowly ruined.
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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SEC has passed on A&M

Statement from Dr. Bernie Machen, Chair, Southeastern Conference Presidents and Chancellors:

“The SEC Presidents and Chancellors met today and reaffirmed our satisfaction with the present 12 institutional alignment. We recognize, however, that future conditions may make it advantageous to expand the number of institutions in the league. We discussed criteria and process associated with expansion. No action was taken with respect to any institution including Texas A&M.”
It's not over. Likely a legal move by the SEC. Something called "tortious interference". This is because A&M hasn't even applied yet. If the SEC approved before A&M even applied, that opens the SEC up to a whole legal can of worms.

You can't lead the cart before the horse.

So it might not happen, but it means little at this point, just more of an SEC CYA.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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I decided to figure out what the divisions would look like if the Big Ten were to add Notre Dame, Boston College, Rutgers, and Kansas. The reasoning behind adding those schools is as follows:

- Notre Dame is obvious. Top football/basketball program that carries tremendous national prestige. Located in the heart of Big Ten country and they already possess built in rivalries with Michigan, Michigan State, and Purdue along with infrequent rivalries with Northwestern and Penn State.

- Boston College was brought in to help increase the footprint of the Big Ten by expanding into the Northeast. BC helps bring in the Boston market for the Big Ten Network and they're one of Notre Dame's biggest rivals. Invited BC helps make the decision for Notre Dame to join easier since the two schools just extended their rivalry by another 10 years starting in 2010.

- Rutgers was so the Big Ten Network can gain access to the much coveted NYC market. While I doubt that Rutgers alone can pull in the NYC market, having teams like Ohio State, Penn State, Notre Dame, Nebraska, and Michigan play Rutgers yearly or every other year will help capture at least the NJ television market. Rutgers being an AAU school maintains the academic requirement of the Big Ten.

- Kansas is another AAU school and while the Kansas market isn't entirely huge, they do boost the Big Ten's presence in basketball as KU is one of the best programs in the country. The Jayhawks also make a logical travel partner with Nebraska.

I stayed within the Big Ten guidelines for division layouts by taking into consideration the important rivalries in the conference while also maintaining competitive balance. Geography was a minor consideration as it was when the Big Ten created their current divisions. After many hours of work I came out with the end result.

All Big Ten rivalries were maintained except for the Governor's Victory Bell between Minnesota and Penn State. I found it to be acceptable since it's currently an irregular crossover game in the current division format.

Below is a list of the divisions with the conference winning percentage for each team beside it and the final division overall winning percentage at the bottom. The percentages were taken from 1993 (the year Penn State joined) to 2010. For Kansas I used 1996 as the starting date since that is when they began Big 12 conference play.

Legends
Michigan .674
Notre Dame .610
Wisconsin .608
Iowa .524
Michigan State .490
Purdue .462
Minnesota .319
Indiana .236
.490

Leaders
Ohio State .788
Nebraska .669
Penn State .625
Boston College .538
Northwestern .431
Illinois .344
Kansas .300
Rutgers .238
.491

The permanent crossover rivalries are as follows:
Ohio State/Michigan, Boston College/Notre Dame, Purdue/Illinois, Michigan State/Penn State, Iowa/Nebraska, Kansas/Minnesota, Northwestern/Wisconsin, and Rutgers/Indiana.

For the most part, each division is provided with a logical travel partner: Rutgers/Boston College, Kansas/Nebraska, Illinois/Northwestern, Purdue/Indiana, Michigan/Michigan State, Iowa/Wisconsin.

The first four rivalries are obvious Big Ten rivalries that must be maintained. Iowa/Nebraska has the makings of a great crossover rivalry. The final three were based on conference winning percentages to provide the best competitive games.

Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina could all be substituted for Rutgers and the division formats would work just the same. The only that would change is the winning percentages for the Leaders division as it would increase since all three teams have a significantly better winning percentage than the Scarlet Knights.

The reasoning behind not inviting Maryland was in part due to their loyalty to the ACC. As a founding member of that conference in 1953, they consider themselves rivals with Duke, North Carolina, Wake Forest, North Carolina State, and Clemson - the other founding members of the ACC. However, if Florida State and Virginia Tech were both to leave for the SEC then the Terrapins could change their tune. As I consider Maryland and Virginia the next in line or perhaps even in front of Rutgers if expansion were to take place. It all depends on how valued the NYC market is by the Big Ten.
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Old 08-28-2011, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...-texasam-big12

A&M expected to leave Big XII
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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They were talking about who could replace A&M in the Big 12 on the radio yesterday. Said BYU, Pitt, and two other schools I can't remember, I think on was Arkansas.

I live in Pittsburgh so they were focusing on the possible move for Pitt of course. Most fans seem to be against it but the money would be better for Pitt in short term, so it would probably happen. Might be scared of a potential collapse of the Big 12, but given an opportunity to get out of the worst BCS conference, probably worse than MWC this year as well, I would think Pitt would jump at the chance.

As to A&M, I havn't decided how I feel about more expansion to 16 teams. If the SEC pulls it off, its only a matter of time before the Big 10 and Pac 12 try to as well. As excited as I was to add Nebraska, and I'd love to get Notre Dame as well, the other options being mentioned for the Big Ten to add only seem to weaken the conference from a football sense. If the SEC is actually adding teams like A&M, FSU, and VT, the Big Ten can't try to respond to that by adding teams like Rutgers and Kansas and think they're even close to the same level.

I'd love to see the Big 10 get to 16, but not simply by adding any team that makes money. I'd much rather try to get some quality football programs. Notre Dame is a no brainer, I like BC as well. Outside of that theres not much. Texas would be incredible to get, especially if they come with Oklahoma.
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal View Post
They were talking about who could replace A&M in the Big 12 on the radio yesterday. Said BYU, Pitt, and two other schools I can't remember, I think on was Arkansas.

I live in Pittsburgh so they were focusing on the possible move for Pitt of course. Most fans seem to be against it but the money would be better for Pitt in short term, so it would probably happen. Might be scared of a potential collapse of the Big 12, but given an opportunity to get out of the worst BCS conference, probably worse than MWC this year as well, I would think Pitt would jump at the chance.

As to A&M, I havn't decided how I feel about more expansion to 16 teams. If the SEC pulls it off, its only a matter of time before the Big 10 and Pac 12 try to as well. As excited as I was to add Nebraska, and I'd love to get Notre Dame as well, the other options being mentioned for the Big Ten to add only seem to weaken the conference from a football sense. If the SEC is actually adding teams like A&M, FSU, and VT, the Big Ten can't try to respond to that by adding teams like Rutgers and Kansas and think they're even close to the same level.

I'd love to see the Big 10 get to 16, but not simply by adding any team that makes money. I'd much rather try to get some quality football programs. Notre Dame is a no brainer, I like BC as well. Outside of that theres not much. Texas would be incredible to get, especially if they come with Oklahoma.
Notre Dame is at the top of the list for the Big XII. And FSU is not going to the SEC anytime soon.
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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The more this plays out, the more I think there will be six 16-team conferences and then two 12 team conferences. Here is how they might work out. New teams in italics.

SEC: East- Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, West Virginia, LSU West- Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Arkansas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

ACC: Coastal- Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, UCF, Louisville Atlantic- Florida State, Clemson, North Carolina State, Wake Forest, Maryland, Boston College, USF, Syracuse

Big 10: Leaders- Illinois, Indiana, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue, Wisconsin, Missouri, Notre Dame Legends- Minnesota, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Pittsburgh, Oklahoma

PAC 16: South- Arizona, Arizona State, USC, UCLA, Colorado, Utah, TCU, Texas North- Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State, Cal, Stanford, Boise State, BYU

MWC: East- Colorado State, Air Force, Baylor, Houston, SMU, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State West- Hawaii, Fresno State, New Mexico, San Diego State, UNLV, San Diego State, Nevada, Wyoming

C-USA: East- East Carolina, Marshall, Memphis, Southern Miss, UAB, Connecticut, Rutgers, Temple West- Rice, Tulane, Tulsa, UTEP Cincinnati, Toledo, Nothern Illinois, Miami (OH)

I think the Big 12 and WAC disband. The Big East disbands as a football conference but stay a conference in other sports. This lines up perfectly for a playoff. It could be 8 teams, with the winner of each conference getting a spot. Or it could be 16 teams with every conference winner getting a spot and then 8 at large bids. We get rid of the BCS, have a playoff, and every team, no matter how small, would then have a chance to win a championship.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 

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Old 08-30-2011, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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The Big Ten won't add Oklahoma. They care about academics.
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