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Old 09-19-2011, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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You are also blaming everyone but Cassel and refuse to see any of his flaws.
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Old 09-19-2011, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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Cassels biggest problem is he isn't progressing anymore, last year was good, but he never did it against qulity defenses, this year you can still see his problems. He still doesn't understand the pocket, he never steps up into it to throw, he doesn't lead his receivers, the ball is usually behind them, too high, too low, he under throws A LOT of them, I don't know how many times I've counted where Bowe is running downfield, and has to stop and come back to the ball when it should hit him in stride. He also still has BIG problem going through his progressions, as everyone knows he usually pick one receiver(Bowe) and locks on to him and tries to force it to him, or eventually dump it off to a RB, FB or TE in the flat that goes no where, or secret option #3, run around for awhile and eventually get sacked.

At this point, Cassel is what he is, a top back up QB, thats it, he shouldn't be starting mulptiple seasons in a row, or it means your team is in trouble, he definitley has the leadership, and passion, and you can tell he wants to be great, but he just isn't.
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Old 09-19-2011, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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I also just wanted to state I don't think this season is all on Cassel, but I do feel a big part of it is him, our defense can't hold the other team when they have to keep coming back out onto the field and the other team has the ball within their own 30.
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Old 09-19-2011, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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You are also blaming everyone but Cassel and refuse to see any of his flaws.
He tends to hold onto the ball too long at times, and isn't the most consistently accurate QB. Those are his flaws. Holding onto the ball is a bit of a product of his first instinct of protecting it.

There's not much to blame on Cassel, though. His receivers don't get open because they're not good enough, they don't make up for any minor mistakes Cassel makes with his throws, the offense isn't designed to get them open, and the only player he can rely on to make a play on a ball is Bowe - who seems to have regressed again.

I'll put some of this on Pioli because he should have done more to get a lot more talent in the receiving and TE positions. I'm not going to bother hammering Bowe over the interception that was his fault because **** happens and it was a tough ball. I could get on Urban over the ball he should have gone up and caught, but he just isn't that talented. The rest of the onus is on Haley for doing a terrible job managing his coaching staff. In his defense, he brought in Zorn (great move) after he'd already crowned Muir... But he shouldn't have worried about undermining Muir by giving Zorn playcalling duties and more control over the offense.
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Old 09-19-2011, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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Even though I am a Raiders fan, I do feel bad for your guys. Losing 2 young promising players to ACL injuries that were self inflicted is horrible to see. It will be interesting to see though if you guys do end up with a top 5 pick. Luck/Barkley should be in play because Cassel just hasn't looked that good
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Old 09-19-2011, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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Whether you want to believe it or not, Cassel is our problem offensively. I'm not saying that the playcalling has been great, but at the end of the day you have to go out there and execute and Cassel can't do that.

If I ever saw Cassel go through his progressions and hit his second read I think I'd die of shock.

Either way, we're not going to win anything substantial with Cassel as the QB going forward, so we need to either a) draft Luck (or another QB) early in this draft or b) move up to secure one of them.

Haley is probably done in KC, but I hope to hell Pioli hires a coach with some swagger, and not "one of this guys" from NE. They're failures as head coaches. We need someone legit, and it isn't McDaniels or Mangini.
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Old 09-19-2011, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderNation View Post
Even though I am a Raiders fan, I do feel bad for your guys. Losing 2 young promising players to ACL injuries that were self inflicted is horrible to see. It will be interesting to see though if you guys do end up with a top 5 pick. Luck/Barkley should be in play because Cassel just hasn't looked that good
I like you, even though you're a Raiders fan, so thank you for the love. And yeah, if we're picking top 5 there will be a new QB in Kansas City. I can't envision a scenario where we'd pass on Luck or Barkley (or hell, maybe even Landry Jones) if they're available.

Here is to hoping we're #1 overall pick bad so we can secure Luck!
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Old 09-19-2011, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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I don't get throwing Cassel under the bus like that when the talent at receiver hasn't changed much since 2009. 99% of Chiefs fans are letting their emotions run wild and losing objectivity. I want to see what they do with Baldwin in the picture. This was supposed to be an explosive offense, but got derailed by Baldwin's injury and Moeaki's injury. Losing Jamaal Charles sucks because he's always a threat when he touches the ball and defenses have to account for him, but the Chiefs are still pretty strong at RB.

Heck, I'll even stop being so harsh towards the offensive coaching until we see what they do with Baldwin back.

Hopefully they can make a game of it against San Diego. They have a couple things going for them in that they got to see SD's offense against New England's defense, which has changed, but still shares a lot of the philosophies with what the Chiefs do on that side of the ball. On offense, I'm interested to see what Haley does to change the direction. I want to see them spread SD's defense out with all their ****** receivers and try to make something happen. Line Bowe up inside and take advantage of his size and the mismatch he creates up the middle of the field to open things up underneath in the flats for Breaston and McCluster.
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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At the end of the day I don't trust Cassel to win a game for the Chiefs it's that simple. He can mange a game and at times not lose it for them but he can't put the team on his shoulder and win.

It's nothing against him personally. I think he is a great guy and teammate and it dam sure isn't a lack of effort it just is what it is.

Great QB's make players around them better.

Brady,Brees and Rodgers lose weapons all the time and don't miss a freaking beat.

Maybe I'm expecting to much from Cassel but if the Chiefs ever want to be more then middle of the pack they need a elite QB.
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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That's just it.. Cassel can't win games. If we have a lead he can not lose them, but he's never going to win us a game.

He will never be elite no matter what he does, that's just who he is. He's above average with a very good team around him, and he's below average on a struggling team. Right now we're the latter.

To make serious strides in this league we need to draft and develop our own QB. That is how it works. Look at the teams that are constantly reaching the playoffs and contending for titles.. they either have the best defense of all time or they have a QB that they've developed themselves.

Until we do that we're going to be in the lower half of the league.
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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I would also like to add I'm in no way giving Haley a pass either he is just as much to blame as Cassel.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Haley is gone after this year if the rumored rift between him and Pioli is true. I just hope Pioli has more sense in his head than to hire Mangini or McDaniels to run this franchise.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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I find it hard to believe you think the WRs are so bad that more blame falls on them then Cassel, look at the past receivers we have had, Trent Green had Eddie Kennison, TG and that was it, Cassel has way more weapons, you'd think he could figure out how to use them, Green and Cassel I think aren't to different talent wise, but Green actually improved and figured things out.
Like has been said and I think most people will agree, Cassel just isn't elite, and in this league you need an elite QB if you want to be consistent, he is a GREAT back up, and its not lack of effort or leadership or anything like that, he just has limited talent.
At this point, I kinda want us to get another Top 5 pick, and finish the rebuilding process with our own Manning, Brady, Brees, its the only position over the last how many years we've never really invested a top pick in.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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Trent Green was working in a system he was familiar with from St. Louis that was run by Al Saunders and Dick Vermeil that created a lot more opportunities for the ****** receivers they had outside of Kennison and Tony. Also, Johnnie Morton's no slouch and Priest Holmes/Larry Johnson are a **** load more useful out of the backfield than what the Chiefs have right now (well, maybe they should use what they have better?).

So Green had 2 solid receivers, one amazing te, and a runningback who was great out of the backfield. Not very comparable to Cassel having...Dwayne Bowe. Green also was operating behind one of the best offensive lines in the history of football, but I like the Chiefs' current OL...so we'll leave that one alone.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Trent Green was working in a system he was familiar with from St. Louis that was run by Al Saunders and Dick Vermeil that created a lot more opportunities for the ****** receivers they had outside of Kennison and Tony. Also, Johnnie Morton's no slouch and Priest Holmes/Larry Johnson are a **** load more useful out of the backfield than what the Chiefs have right now (well, maybe they should use what they have better?).
In Det maybe. Dude was down right awful in KC.

Also Jamaal and Dexter are a million times better in the passing game than Larry Johnson ever was.
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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At the end of the day I don't trust Cassel to win a game for the Chiefs it's that simple. He can mange a game and at times not lose it for them but he can't put the team on his shoulder and win.

It's nothing against him personally. I think he is a great guy and teammate and it dam sure isn't a lack of effort it just is what it is.

Great QB's make players around them better.

Brady,Brees and Rodgers lose weapons all the time and don't miss a freaking beat.

Maybe I'm expecting to much from Cassel but if the Chiefs ever want to be more then middle of the pack they need a elite QB.
THIS!!! 'you must spread some reputation around before giving it to Splat again' this is the only thing that matters, ELITE QBs win SB Rings. Cassel is a serviceable guy that would be good depth, but he is nowhere near elite. I want a ******* SB Title in my life time. lets go get a QB that'll get us 1!
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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THIS!!! 'you must spread some reputation around before giving it to Splat again' this is the only thing that matters, ELITE QBs win SB Rings. Cassel is a serviceable guy that would be good depth, but he is nowhere near elite. I want a ******* SB Title in my life time. lets go get a QB that'll get us 1!
With the way we're playing I don't think having a high pick is going to be the problem.. I just hope Pioli is smart enough to pull the trigger with the opportunity staring him in the face.

Now we just have to win only 1 or 2 games this year, and endure another awful season for the future of this club.
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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Well considering that the Chiefs SoS will be ridiculously high this year, one win max is probably what it'll take to secure Luck. The Seahawks and Colts seem very determined to out suck us for Luck.

Word seems to be floating around that Pioli is ready to give up on Cassel too, so I think Luck is a done deal if they get the chance.

E: Side note. How hard would it be to request a namechange to Suck4Luck?
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:09 AM    (permalink
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I am a little bothered that we are sitting on a ton of cap room right now but our roster has no depth. Wether that is on Pioli or Hunt I have no idea, but it's an embarrasment how thin our roster is with all of the money we have on the table. I don't believe that free agency is the answer to building a roster, but I do think we are way to conservative. I'm afraid Hunt got his new stadium and is keeping payroll low to maximize profits. It's almost looking like the Royals model but in a league that has more parity through schedules and a salary cap. Either way I guess we should hope we get the top pick, but I can't bring myself into hoping for my team to lose.
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:25 AM    (permalink
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With the way we're playing I don't think having a high pick is going to be the problem.. I just hope Pioli is smart enough to pull the trigger with the opportunity staring him in the face.

Now we just have to win only 1 or 2 games this year, and endure another awful season for the future of this club.
it used to be that drafting a QB early cost a fortune and if you guesses incorrectly, you set the franchise back for years. with the new rookie wage scale, it should be easier to pull the trigger on a top QB. it won't cost an arm and a leg (just an arm now) and it shouldn't be that difficult to over come in the long run. you would think that only the time invested would be lost. no long term effects of a bust rookie QB
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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The Chiefs are weak on the lines, that's the simple answer. Couple that with losing 3 of the teams most valuable skill players and you have a recipe for disaster. If the Chiefs are in a position to draft Andrew Luck they must do so. Cassel is a competent starting quarterback and I think if you give him time and weapons he can lead you to a Super Bowl, but Andrew Luck is possibly the best quarterback to come out in the last decade.

The loss of Moeaki and Charles is devastating to the Chiefs offense though. They both brought an ability to open things up for the offense, and without them I don't see how the Chiefs move the ball consistently, at all. Not without a better offensive line.
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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Exactly, and this year we'll have an opportunity to get a good QB prospect in Luck OR Barkley (if we're not first overall bad). Obviously I'd prefer Luck, but Barkley is not a bad consolation prize.
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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I am a little bothered that we are sitting on a ton of cap room right now but our roster has no depth. Wether that is on Pioli or Hunt I have no idea, but it's an embarrasment how thin our roster is with all of the money we have on the table. I don't believe that free agency is the answer to building a roster, but I do think we are way to conservative. I'm afraid Hunt got his new stadium and is keeping payroll low to maximize profits. It's almost looking like the Royals model but in a league that has more parity through schedules and a salary cap. Either way I guess we should hope we get the top pick, but I can't bring myself into hoping for my team to lose.
Cap room really doesn't have much to do with it. If there's no one worth putting money into, they're smart to keep it and sign their own guys. They don't have the lockerroom built up to just bring in a bunch of free agents and rely on their players to get the FAs up to speed and on board with what they're doing.

The issue with the depth this year has a lot to do with the lock out. I guess you can blame Clark Hunt for that if you choose. This is a team that needed to bring in a ton of UDFAs to minicamp and OTAs and get them acclimated to their system. With the lock out, that was impossible.

There were guys they tried to bring in, but those players chose to go elsewhere. James Sanders would have been a huge pick up. Ty Warren could have been a nice addition (luckily, they didn't get him as he's injured again)... They went out and got Gaither, Gregg, Breaston, and Siler which addressed a few big needs that remained after the draft. They just lack depth at 3 positions that have become really important in the NFL: WR, TE, and CB.
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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The hail-mary play at the half, I think it was, where he scrambled around aimlessly forever, only to get sacked and not even get the pass off...that's who Cassel is. Don't mean to pile on but it hurt to watch that play. Just snooping around the board. Thinking about a mock and just curious what the talk was.

I do think the SD game will be closer than the first two but wondering if Cassel will even finish the game-anyone else think Palko might get an opportunity?

Also, it looked like Charles tried to stop while stepping on the 1st down marker-curious if anyone else saw that and just speculating if that instability when he planted might have blew the knee? Thoughts....?
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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I saw the Charles play and I knew the second it happened that he was out for the year with a torn ACL. It just looked like it.

As for Cassel, that is who he is. He holds onto the ball for way too long and makes suspect decisions when he has it. He has a chance to be an above average QB but the team around him needs to be very good.

If you're doing a mock it's hard not to have the Chiefs at #1 overall after two weeks. Give us Luck. We need to start over at that position.
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