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Old 09-25-2011, 08:04 PM    (permalink
hawkeye123
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Originally Posted by Ness View Post
No. I'm saying that if you feel you can upgrade a position at any point in time, you upgrade it. If Andrew Luck is sitting there for the 49ers to take him, are you telling me you don't take him because Kaepernick hasn't seen the field yet or has barely played?
All i'm saying is let's at least wait to see how the rest of the season rolls before we start declaring where we need upgrades at. Quarterback hasn't been one of those areas, so far.
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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Or people are just content with mediocrity period. Yes we have two wins in the NFC West and we're in 1st place. So astonishing. Dang I bet you excited when we were 3-1 in 2009, or 2-1 in 2008, or 2-1 in 2007.
Difference Kurt Warner, Matt Hasselbeck, and Bulger were in the division at the time. We are coming off a year were 7 wins got a team into the playoffs and a Travis Jackson led team beat the Cardinals.

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Alex has been a game manager. Start talking when he is putting up 30 points a game like we thought he would be doing when we drafted him, and not squeezing out wins against terrible teams.
Progress. Rome wasn't built in the day......unless your a delusional 49ers fan stuck in the 80s/90s.



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Kaepernick is not a franchise quarterback until he actually produces. No one is. And digging up a press article implies nothing, nor does it push your point. San Francisco went after Jim Drunkenmiller at one point. Doesn't mean he was a franchise quarterback because he was taken early. I guess the Panthers should have passed on Cam Newton because they "had" a franchise quarterback in place in Jimmy Clausen, who they took in the second round the previous year. If you feel like you can upgrade any position, you upgrade it.
I really have no idea where to begin. First off it wasn't "press article" but was from the site Rotoworld. Using the system it shows how much the 49ers have invested in Colin. You make the point Clausen/Newton dilemma the Panthers went through this season. Not surprisingly you completely missed my earlier post (IN THIS THREAD)
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Only way SF drafts a QB is if they get pick 1
Hey look I'm like Bill Simmons with the re-quoting of myself.
But it took special circumstances (like having the number 1 pick) and a whole new coaching staff for Carolina to give up on Clausen.



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Bottom line is that they've actually done something with their careers after being in the NFL for seven seasons. And when you have guys like Ryan, Stafford, Flacco, Rodgers, Freeman, and Newton producing in their first or second seasons as starters it's a little hard to be patient. Especially when you've been stuck with the same guy for seven years. Yeah seven years is really being impatient. And I don't think it's just me wishing we had those guys. I'm sure the majority of the 49ers fanbase would rather have any of those three I mentioned. Because they are simply better quarterbacks bottom line.
I'm not surprised you missed my point again, you are the Damon Bruce of this message board. My point was directed at your opinon of Kaepernick not Alex Smith. You want to give up on Kaepernick before he even plays a down and I was giving you examples of how long it took for those QBs to become consistent starters.
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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Anyone else notice a pass receiving fullback wearing our colours today?
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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Anyone else notice a pass receiving fullback wearing our colours today?
Anyone else notice that we had a fullback making blocks that weren't only behind the line of scrimmage?
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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We could have dumped Norris for Caulcrick last year and upgraded the blocking. Love the guy, but a body only has so many collisions in it before it just isn't effective play after play. Hope we took a big step in solving the position today with a westcoast type fullback.
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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Anyone else notice that we had a fullback making blocks that weren't only behind the line of scrimmage?
Anyone else notice that he was GINGER?

From Barrows twitter feed:
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Rookie FB Bruce Miller had four catches for 25 yards today. Veteran FB Moran Norris had four catches for 20 yards ALL OF LAST SEASON.
Aside from the fumble, nice debut from Miller.
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Old 09-25-2011, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Any quarterback can make a drive like that in that kind of game against that kind of team. I'm talking Jon Kitna, Billy Volek, etc. Smith completed enough of his passes to make big plays over the field, and like I said earlier they let him pass a bunch in the first half. Dude just didn't get it done. When the passing game actually starts dominating and Smith throws for 300 yards, 4 touchdowns, in a rout of a team, then I'll have faith. But one game against a terrible Bengals team that the 49ers happened to win in which they could have easily lost doesn't give me any confidence. If the 49ers were playing the Packers, Saints, or Giants they would have gotten their asses kicked and Alex Smith would not have had a "great game".

Like I also said, wake me up when we have a Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, or Phillip Rivers. Someone that can actually dominate a game and not just be a game manager with a high percentage of completions while never throwing for more than 300 yards. This is not worth the number one overall pick that Alex was picked for.

You can use all the excuses you want, but at the end of the day it's just excuses. Receivers dropping passes, coordinators, etc. The actual good quarterbacks in this league offset those things because they make big plays and make them often. It's not just limiting your mistakes either, it's making big plays and having big games period. It's really that simple.

Funny how you blame Gore instead of the offensive line for not being explosive, but blame the offensive line for Alex Smith not having a better game.

All in all it doesn't matter. I'm already looking forward to Landry Jones or Matt Barkley under center next year. This is Smith's last year thank goodness.
you seem to be downplaying how important pass protecting is to a passing game

i'm honestly beginning to think you don't watch the games.

but when it comes to the draft, im with you. we're winning our way out of the luck sweepstakes. i think if the good signal caller is there this draft, we NEED to take him.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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you seem to be downplaying how important pass protecting is to a passing game

i'm honestly beginning to think you don't watch the games.

but when it comes to the draft, im with you. we're winning our way out of the luck sweepstakes. i think if the good signal caller is there this draft, we NEED to take him.
There are quarterbacks that can still dominate even if they get sacked a bunch. Just ask the 2009 Packers.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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Sometimes it seems like most niner fans don't watch other games. You rarely see a QB in this league play well withotu pass protection..I'd say Rodgers is the biggest exception, he has a quick release and a great scheme, and great feel in the pocket. But you'll see guys like Brady and Vick and Rivers struggle mightily without protection...the NFL is just very difficult if people don't do their freaking job. Alex has terrible feel in the pocket, and a very long release, but if he has time he's been pretty accurate.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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Difference Kurt Warner, Matt Hasselbeck, and Bulger were in the division at the time. We are coming off a year were 7 wins got a team into the playoffs and a Travis Jackson led team beat the Cardinals.
Terrible justification. Bulger hasn't been a legitimate starting quarterback since 2006, and the Rams haven't won eight games since that year. Hasselbeck and the Seahawks haven't been that good since 2007. The Cardinals I will give you, but really they benefited from the three other teams in their division playing terrible. Winning the crown in this division isn't that much to be proud of.


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Progress. Rome wasn't built in the day......unless your a delusional 49ers fan stuck in the 80s/90s.
Falcons and Ravens and Buccaneers say hi. Yes, the 49ers have really made progress since 2002.

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I really have no idea where to begin. First off it wasn't "press article" but was from the site Rotoworld. Using the system it shows how much the 49ers have invested in Colin. You make the point Clausen/Newton dilemma the Panthers went through this season. Not surprisingly you completely missed my earlier post (IN THIS THREAD)
Press, media it doesn't matter. The point still stands. Digging up some article or tidbit that says how much the 49ers reached for Kaepernick (where a lot of quarterbacks were reaches in that draft due to the lockout) doesn't say he is a sure franchise quarterback of the future. The Newton/Clausen scenario pretty much trumps this. If you feel like you can upgrade your position and have a prospect that can help you out, you take him. Period. If the 49ers had a shot at Andrew Luck, they don't take him because Kaepernick hasn't played a down/they "invested" a second round pick in him?

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I'm not surprised you missed my point again, you are the Damon Bruce of this message board. My point was directed at your opinon of Kaepernick not Alex Smith. You want to give up on Kaepernick before he even plays a down and I was giving you examples of how long it took for those QBs to become consistent starters.
Oh please, stop with the "you missed my point" card. That's the biggest cop-out, instead of actually explaining what you meant again in a response. Even if you want to say you're talking about Kaepernick, the point still stands about Smith, who I was talking about in the first place before I even started talking to you.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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Sometimes it seems like most niner fans don't watch other games. You rarely see a QB in this league play well withotu pass protection..I'd say Rodgers is the biggest exception, he has a quick release and a great scheme, and great feel in the pocket. But you'll see guys like Brady and Vick and Rivers struggle mightily without protection...the NFL is just very difficult if people don't do their freaking job. Alex has terrible feel in the pocket, and a very long release, but if he has time he's been pretty accurate.
In years past we've had offensive line groups that haven't played this bad, yet Alex still hasn't capitalized on his opportunities.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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Oh and just for the record, I'm not writing off Kaepernick for sure, as he hasn't played in the regular season yet (although he looked awful in the preseason), but I am saying that just because he was taken early in the first round doesn't mean the 49ers can't and/or shouldn't think about upgrading QB at season's end.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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Kaep struggling in the preseason was expected considering the lockout and since he's been in the shotgun his entire life till now.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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Oh and just for the record, I'm not writing off Kaepernick for sure, as he hasn't played in the regular season yet (although he looked awful in the preseason), but I am saying that just because he was taken early in the first round doesn't mean the 49ers can't and/or shouldn't think about upgrading QB at season's end.
I agree. However, having the chance at drafting another 1st round QB shouldn't necessarily be the focus, either. It's all dependent upon evaluation of the players in question.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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doesn't say he is a sure franchise quarterback of the future.
What says Luck, Landry, Barkley, etc are franchise QBs???

You're using your personal opinion of a player who has yet to play a regular season snap(Luck) to disparage the potential ability of a player who has yet to play a regular season snap (Kaepernick).

Your opinion of what type of QB they become has zero affect on Harbaugh and/or Baalke's opinion of the same.
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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What says Luck, Landry, Barkley, etc are franchise QBs???

You're using your personal opinion of a player who has yet to play a regular season snap(Luck) to disparage the potential ability of a player who has yet to play a regular season snap (Kaepernick).

Your opinion of what type of QB they become has zero affect on Harbaugh and/or Baalke's opinion of the same.
Are you saying Luck isn't a franchise QB? He's the most certain QB to come out of college since arguably Peyton Manning. Barkley and Luck, I personally rate a little higher from what I've seen. And who is to say that all three of those guys aren't?

And anyone's opinion on anything having to do with the 49ers will have zero effect on what Harbaugh/Baalke does. That goes without saying obviously.

Let me ask you, if Luck is right there and the 49ers have a shot do you take him yes or no?
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:04 AM    (permalink
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Kaep struggling in the preseason was expected considering the lockout and since he's been in the shotgun his entire life till now.
Meh, so was Newton. I did expect him to struggle though more or less. Maybe not to that extent, but I did expect him to struggle. Again, I'm just saying he looked awful in the preseason, which is what happened regardless of the circumstances.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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In years past we've had offensive line groups that haven't played this bad, yet Alex still hasn't capitalized on his opportunities.
yeah we've had. same **** different guys is all
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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Are you saying Luck isn't a franchise QB? He's the most certain QB to come out of college since arguably Peyton Manning. Barkley and Luck, I personally rate a little higher from what I've seen. And who is to say that all three of those guys aren't?
There have been countless perceived "franchise QBs" who've entered the draft and been disappointing.

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Let me ask you, if Luck is right there and the 49ers have a shot do you take him yes or no?
I would take Luck... but the 49ers will not be in any position to select that highly. I'd trade for Tom Brady, which is almost as likely to happen as the 49ers being in position to select Luck... but we can hope.

I'm not as sold on Barkley and Jones.

I don't just throw out [insert highly-ranked player's name here]'s name and say he has more of a chance to be a good QB than Kaepernick... at least not this soon.

I'm on record from last year as saying who my fav QB prospects are... Unfortunately one is 5'10" and the other is almost 28 years old.
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:13 AM    (permalink
phlysac
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In years past we've had offensive line groups that haven't played this bad, yet Alex still hasn't capitalized on his opportunities.
Post 2006... what lines have performed well, though?
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:14 AM    (permalink
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yeah we've had. same **** different guys is all
2006 wasn't that bad. Some of the other years we had guys under center that were so terrible it made our offensive line look worse. Like Trent Dilfer or Chris Weinke. This happens with some franchises. Look at Atlanta or New Orleans. When Matt Ryan was drafted their sack total went down immensely from the previous year when Chris Redman was throwing the rock. Same thing with Aarron Brooks to Drew Brees. And both of those teams kept practically the same offensive linemen from one year to the next.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:14 AM    (permalink
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The 06 offensive line is the best one they have had since the 02 playoff team fun to watch.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:18 AM    (permalink
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There have been countless perceived "franchise QBs" who've entered the draft and been disappointing.
But there have been touted as highly as Andrew Luck has been. Really, who was the last one? I'd say Carson Palmer maybe. Before that, Peyton Manning.

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I would take Luck... but the 49ers will not be in any position to select that highly. I'd trade for Tom Brady, which is almost as likely to happen as the 49ers being in position to select Luck... but we can hope.

I'm not as sold on Barkley and Jones.

I don't just throw out [insert highly-ranked player's name here]'s name and say he has more of a chance to be a good QB than Kaepernick... at least not this soon.

I'm on record from last year as saying who my fav QB prospects are... Unfortunately one is 5'10" and the other is almost 28 years old.
Well you never know. Alex Smith could get a season ending injury against Philadelphia next week. That would really make things look worse than they already are and the 49ers could be in position. I'm just asking you if you would take him, not if you would take him, but this or that. So your answer is yes then. You would take Luck if the 49ers had a shot, and Kaepernick's presence on the roster wouldn't effect your decision. Gotcha. Thank you.
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:27 AM    (permalink
phlysac
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But there have been touted as highly as Andrew Luck has been. Really, who was the last one? I'd say Carson Palmer maybe. Before that, Peyton Manning.
But that's the thing... Many considered Ryan Leaf a can't miss QBOTF, too.

It's easier to look back and say, nah, Leaf wasn't that good or JaMarcus Russell was overrated.... I won't necessarily disagree. My point is that some believed they were sure-fire "Franchise QBs"
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