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Old 10-05-2011, 08:47 PM    (permalink
Brown Leader
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sounds like the Browns front office/coach is trying to force Hillis out of Cleveland or gain leverage on him in contract negotiaitons.. They are phasing him out of the offense for the less talented Hardesty and spreading rumors that he missed last weeks game because of his contract situation..ignoring the fact that he lost 10-2 lbs. Pretty pathetic stuff and a bad way to treat their best offensive player.
Browns don't want to pay Hillis for what he did in 2010. At this point they probably want to see what his role will be in the new offense before they give him a big contract. As far as the game against the Titans-I figure they felt Hardesty is more explosive and since they were down big, he was more apt to make a big play than Hillis. And "less talented" ? ...that's debatable. Less experienced for sure.

So Hillis' agent has come out and said he advised him not to play...so much for spreading rumors. Idk why it's such an issue anyways-a few players random thoughts become a media frenzy-smh. Hillis is great and needs to stay in Clev but he's not the team's best offensive player.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:01 AM    (permalink
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*crickets*
I'm not buying Shurmur's "getting to know the players" thing. It's the same GM who knows who the playmakers are. How could you evaluate the team before this season and come up with anything but, I need to get the ball to Hillis and Cribbs?
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Old 10-12-2011, 04:19 AM    (permalink
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*crickets*
I'm not buying Shurmur's "getting to know the players" thing. It's the same GM who knows who the playmakers are. How could you evaluate the team before this season and come up with anything but, I need to get the ball to Hillis and Cribbs?
I know this sentiment appears to have gained some traction in Ohio, but I'm not prepared to throw Shurmur under the bus just yet. Granted, the offense has been tough to watch so far and that's his side of the ball. That said, I think this is more a problem of perception than reality and I don't want to overreact to the situation. On a per-game basis, Hillis is getting more touches this season than he did in 2010 under Mangini. And, mind you, this is a guy that burned out down the stretch last year after being saddled with a season-long, strenuous workload. On top of that, he was only a week or so removed from battling a viral infection and found himself a victim of falling behind early against the Titans. When examining all of those factors in conjunction, I have little problem with Hillis' role in the offense at this point.

The underlying force at work here is Hillis' contract situation, even generating some attention in my parts of the woods. Two things are clear to me though. One, it's clear that Hillis wants to be paid. And two, it's clear there's a gulf with the potential to get contentious separating the parties involved. Likely, Hillis wants to be paid like an upper echelon back. Frankly, he's not worth that kind of money. Let some other team overpay for his services if that's the case. How does his contract affect his current status? Simple. If the Browns front office and coaching staff have reasonable doubts that Hillis won't be returning to Cleveland next season, it makes it imperative to evaluate Montario Hardesty accordingly and gauge exactly what he brings to the table for your football team. Personally, I don't think the drop-off is significantly severe, but the injury history worries me moving forward.

I wouldn't mind getting the ball in Cribbs' hands more because he is our best option to take a short pass the distance, but he's still a gadget player to me. As far as I'm concerned, the experiment at wide out is over. He's not a starting caliber receiver. He certainly has a spot in specialized packages and he's dangerous when he gets the rock in space, but he's better suited deeper on the depth chart long-term. Like I said though, since this offense seems reliant on short throws, I wouldn't be opposed to increasing his usage. Which brings me to...

Colt McCoy. From what I've seen, I haven't been impressed. Color me a skeptic or pessimist or whatever, but I'm souring on him more and more. Yes, he's made some strides and improved a little as a passer since first entering the league. And, sure, he doesn't have the best supporting cast to work with. But I don't like what I've seen from him through the first block of games. I don't know if it's a lack of confidence in his arm or unfamiliarity with the offense or the reads that the system itself dictates, but this offense is vertically challenged in the worst way. In today's NFL, offenses need at least pose a vertical threat to stretch the field. The Browns don't. With athleticism and speed trending upward on the other side of the ball, it's much harder to move the chains by attacking defenses horizontally. Offenses that successfully accomplish it often have years of continuity and veteran execution on their side. The Browns have neither of those things. Yet this is a dink-and-dunk offense. Now, I'm not saying that McCoy should be run out of town this week or even the next. He should play out the rest of the season and get plenty of snaps on tape for evaluation purposes. What I am saying though is that McCoy hasn't shown me enough to warrant seriously considering alternatives in 2012.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:15 AM    (permalink
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It also baffles me that the Browns don't get Evan Moore involved more in the offense. He is a good offensive weapon and could be used in several ways.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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I know this sentiment appears to have gained some traction in Ohio, but I'm not prepared to throw Shurmur under the bus just yet. Granted, the offense has been tough to watch so far and that's his side of the ball. That said, I think this is more a problem of perception than reality and I don't want to overreact to the situation. On a per-game basis, Hillis is getting more touches this season than he did in 2010 under Mangini. And, mind you, this is a guy that burned out down the stretch last year after being saddled with a season-long, strenuous workload. On top of that, he was only a week or so removed from battling a viral infection and found himself a victim of falling behind early against the Titans. When examining all of those factors in conjunction, I have little problem with Hillis' role in the offense at this point.

The underlying force at work here is Hillis' contract situation, even generating some attention in my parts of the woods. Two things are clear to me though. One, it's clear that Hillis wants to be paid. And two, it's clear there's a gulf with the potential to get contentious separating the parties involved. Likely, Hillis wants to be paid like an upper echelon back. Frankly, he's not worth that kind of money. Let some other team overpay for his services if that's the case. How does his contract affect his current status? Simple. If the Browns front office and coaching staff have reasonable doubts that Hillis won't be returning to Cleveland next season, it makes it imperative to evaluate Montario Hardesty accordingly and gauge exactly what he brings to the table for your football team. Personally, I don't think the drop-off is significantly severe, but the injury history worries me moving forward.

I wouldn't mind getting the ball in Cribbs' hands more because he is our best option to take a short pass the distance, but he's still a gadget player to me. As far as I'm concerned, the experiment at wide out is over. He's not a starting caliber receiver. He certainly has a spot in specialized packages and he's dangerous when he gets the rock in space, but he's better suited deeper on the depth chart long-term. Like I said though, since this offense seems reliant on short throws, I wouldn't be opposed to increasing his usage. Which brings me to...

Colt McCoy. From what I've seen, I haven't been impressed. Color me a skeptic or pessimist or whatever, but I'm souring on him more and more. Yes, he's made some strides and improved a little as a passer since first entering the league. And, sure, he doesn't have the best supporting cast to work with. But I don't like what I've seen from him through the first block of games. I don't know if it's a lack of confidence in his arm or unfamiliarity with the offense or the reads that the system itself dictates, but this offense is vertically challenged in the worst way. In today's NFL, offenses need at least pose a vertical threat to stretch the field. The Browns don't. With athleticism and speed trending upward on the other side of the ball, it's much harder to move the chains by attacking defenses horizontally. Offenses that successfully accomplish it often have years of continuity and veteran execution on their side. The Browns have neither of those things. Yet this is a dink-and-dunk offense. Now, I'm not saying that McCoy should be run out of town this week or even the next. He should play out the rest of the season and get plenty of snaps on tape for evaluation purposes. What I am saying though is that McCoy hasn't shown me enough to warrant seriously considering alternatives in 2012.
We're actually from the same neck of woods-CT. I'm not quite ready to give up on the dream of Cribbs becoming a starting WR in the mold of T.J. Houshmanzadeh or Hines Ward, guys who worked their way up from ST to become solid receivers, however unlikely it is. It really would be interesting though to see what Cribbs might look like with a truly good QB at the helm.

Going forward it'll be interesting to see just how committed Shurmur is to the run. If he prefers an Andy Reid style offense there might not be a need for two starting caliber 3 down RBs. I'd prefer a run heavy, Gruden style WCO, in which Hillis and Hardesty would be ideal but I'm doubtful that's the identity Shurmur is going for.

Completely agree on McCoy. Although I will say, he's missed on a few deeper throws that, if completed, would make his play and that of the overall offense look a whole lot better. But, still, I'm already taking a hard look at the 2012 QB prospects.
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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I have no problem with the HC. When you hire a new HC, a house cleaning takes place as he replaces those who don't fit his system.
The fact is if you remove the rose coloured glasses, this team lacks impact players on both sides of the ball with a mediocre talent base at best, and we aren't going to be competitive until we find REAL impact players in the draft.
Unfortunately with Baltimore and Pittsburgh in our Division, we are years away from being truly competitive. We have settled into a franchise that will draft top 10 but never top 5 and that means we will never get a shot at the "Luck's" of this world. We are going to need an awful lot of luck at the draft table to find the necessary impact players to take us to the next level and I'm not sold on the idea that our owner has the patience needed to build a winner correctly and will panic again and bring in a new management team 2 or 3 years down the road and start all over.
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Old 10-13-2011, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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I think Pittsburgh is on the downswing to be honest. I would not be surprised to see the Bengals and Browns both split the series with them this year. The Browns and Bengals both have youth on their side. The next few years the Steelers will be losing their defensive core - Hampton, Keisel, Smith, Polamalu, Clark, Ike Taylor, Farrior and James Harrison are all in their early to mid 30s. Ben is a very underrated QB imo, without him they are a .500 team at best. That offensive line is a wreck.

Cleveland has done a pretty good job in the past few drafts. They need a big play WR - luckily the next draft is deep in this position, an impact 4-3 DE, O-line help - Right tackle and Guard and depending on McCoy's development a QB.
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Old 10-14-2011, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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We're actually from the same neck of woods-CT. I'm not quite ready to give up on the dream of Cribbs becoming a starting WR in the mold of T.J. Houshmanzadeh or Hines Ward, guys who worked their way up from ST to become solid receivers, however unlikely it is. It really would be interesting though to see what Cribbs might look like with a truly good QB at the helm.
Nice to know I'm not the only Browns fan around here, haha.

To your point, I think Cribbs should be viewed as a weapon first and foremost. He's a jack-of-all-trades and our best big play threat to boot. With how much this offense revolves around underneath stuff and mesh concepts, I wouldn't mind Cribbs getting more targets this year. But he's still way too inconsistent for my liking on the perimeter and I don't trust him enough to pencil him in as our long-term split-end, flanker, or slot. And, by the way, I absolutely love him in that role as a fourth wide out and full-time special teams demon. He brings a lot to the table for an offense and football team. But at this point his ceiling is a debate of plausible versus possible.

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Going forward it'll be interesting to see just how committed Shurmur is to the run. If he prefers an Andy Reid style offense there might not be a need for two starting caliber 3 down RBs. I'd prefer a run heavy, Gruden style WCO, in which Hillis and Hardesty would be ideal but I'm doubtful that's the identity Shurmur is going for.
I'm interested to see how his scheme unfolds as well. Shurmur used the tools available to him as offensive coordinator of the Rams. In 2009, Steven Jackson had 324 rushing attempts, which was third most in the NFL. In 2010, Steven Jackson followed that up with 330 rushing attempts, which was second most in the NFL. So Shurmur's body of work certainly suggests that he isn't opposed to a run-heavy offense. Whether his play-calling in St. Louis was influenced by Spagnuolo's philosophies remains to be seen though.

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Completely agree on McCoy. Although I will say, he's missed on a few deeper throws that, if completed, would make his play and that of the overall offense look a whole lot better. But, still, I'm already taking a hard look at the 2012 QB prospects.
His deep ball is a long-standing source of doubt though. I've gotten in numerous arguments so far about McCoy as the future of this organization. Quite frankly, I wasn't expecting him to light the world on fire in 2011. Far from it. All I was expecting was some tangible improvement in a few areas and he hasn't delivered those results. For being heralded as an accurate passer, I've been disappointed with him in that regard even in the short-to-intermediate ranges. He's leaving balls at his receiver's feet far too often. And, for being touted as a cerebral quarterback, he looks awfully uncomfortable and uncertain in the pocket.

McCoy's shortcomings are especially troubling if Shurmur does intend on implementing a pass-first system. I was never ready to buy into Colt as a guy that could put a pro team on his shoulders and carry an aerial attack. But, if he was surrounded with a plethora of talent on offense and backed with a strong defense, I thought he had a legitimate shot at being a reliable caretaker; however, if Shurmur intends to make him the identity of the offense, I think it's putting Colt in a precarious position. A struggling young passer without much help offensively in an environment notoriously ill-suited for passing games? Oh boy...

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I have no problem with the HC. When you hire a new HC, a house cleaning takes place as he replaces those who don't fit his system.
Hillis isn't an issue of fit. Hillis is a permeable back. He can carve out a spot in all types of offenses, including any variant of the West Coast system. He's a bruiser with plus athleticism and surprising softness in the passing game. I'd be mildly shocked if Hillis' role in this offense was related to anything other than his contract situation.

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The fact is if you remove the rose coloured glasses, this team lacks impact players on both sides of the ball with a mediocre talent base at best, and we aren't going to be competitive until we find REAL impact players in the draft.
Who argues otherwise? In reality, the Browns have four guys that I would feel comfortable calling impact players. Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Joe Haden, and Josh Cribbs as a special unit ace. Then they have a few players that are very solid contributors. Peyton Hillis, D'Qwell Jackson, Ahtyba Rubin, etc. I think Greg Little and Phil Taylor have fair potential to become impact players from what we've seen so far. But I really don't think anyone is arguing the Browns as contenders as currently constructed. The need for a talent infusion or two is quite obvious.

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Unfortunately with Baltimore and Pittsburgh in our Division, we are years away from being truly competitive. We have settled into a franchise that will draft top 10 but never top 5 and that means we will never get a shot at the "Luck's" of this world. We are going to need an awful lot of luck at the draft table to find the necessary impact players to take us to the next level and I'm not sold on the idea that our owner has the patience needed to build a winner correctly and will panic again and bring in a new management team 2 or 3 years down the road and start all over.
Teams do not need a slew of top five picks to become competitive. It's popular to say on a draft site, but it's simply not true. You can find talented players and important pieces all over the draft. The only position your argument has its merits at is quarterback. But it isn't impossible to find a promising signal-caller unless you're drafting first overall. Not to mention, the Browns have the ammunition to make a move for a big-time quarterback prospect if it's deemed necessary next April.

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I think Pittsburgh is on the downswing to be honest. I would not be surprised to see the Bengals and Browns both split the series with them this year. The Browns and Bengals both have youth on their side. The next few years the Steelers will be losing their defensive core - Hampton, Keisel, Smith, Polamalu, Clark, Ike Taylor, Farrior and James Harrison are all in their early to mid 30s. Ben is a very underrated QB imo, without him they are a .500 team at best. That offensive line is a wreck.
I couldn't agree more on Big Ben. His style of play isn't easy to watch, but it's incredibly effective. Even when their defensive core completely falls apart outside of Timmons and Woodley, I think Ben's underrated ability keeps them very relevant within the division. But you're right. It's not like the Steelers are an unsurpassable road block. The same can be said for the Ravens.

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Cleveland has done a pretty good job in the past few drafts. They need a big play WR - luckily the next draft is deep in this position, an impact 4-3 DE, O-line help - Right tackle and Guard and depending on McCoy's development a QB.
That's a spot-on assessment of Cleveland's needs more or less. If Colt doesn't improve, quarterback is a first-round priority. So is a game-changing receiver and a stud pass rusher. Right tackle and guard are mid-round values to me. Personally, I would like the Browns to add some athleticism next to D'Qwell Jackson at linebacker. The second level of this defense is woefully unathletic. Free safety is probably a need too, I'm just not sure how dire yet.
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Old 10-16-2011, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Nice to know I'm not the only Browns fan around here, haha.

To your point, I think Cribbs should be viewed as a weapon first and foremost. He's a jack-of-all-trades and our best big play threat to boot. With how much this offense revolves around underneath stuff and mesh concepts, I wouldn't mind Cribbs getting more targets this year. But he's still way too inconsistent for my liking on the perimeter and I don't trust him enough to pencil him in as our long-term split-end, flanker, or slot. And, by the way, I absolutely love him in that role as a fourth wide out and full-time special teams demon. He brings a lot to the table for an offense and football team. But at this point his ceiling is a debate of plausible versus possible.



I'm interested to see how his scheme unfolds as well. Shurmur used the tools available to him as offensive coordinator of the Rams. In 2009, Steven Jackson had 324 rushing attempts, which was third most in the NFL. In 2010, Steven Jackson followed that up with 330 rushing attempts, which was second most in the NFL. So Shurmur's body of work certainly suggests that he isn't opposed to a run-heavy offense. Whether his play-calling in St. Louis was influenced by Spagnuolo's philosophies remains to be seen though.



His deep ball is a long-standing source of doubt though. I've gotten in numerous arguments so far about McCoy as the future of this organization. Quite frankly, I wasn't expecting him to light the world on fire in 2011. Far from it. All I was expecting was some tangible improvement in a few areas and he hasn't delivered those results. For being heralded as an accurate passer, I've been disappointed with him in that regard even in the short-to-intermediate ranges. He's leaving balls at his receiver's feet far too often. And, for being touted as a cerebral quarterback, he looks awfully uncomfortable and uncertain in the pocket.

McCoy's shortcomings are especially troubling if Shurmur does intend on implementing a pass-first system. I was never ready to buy into Colt as a guy that could put a pro team on his shoulders and carry an aerial attack. But, if he was surrounded with a plethora of talent on offense and backed with a strong defense, I thought he had a legitimate shot at being a reliable caretaker; however, if Shurmur intends to make him the identity of the offense, I think it's putting Colt in a precarious position. A struggling young passer without much help offensively in an environment notoriously ill-suited for passing games? Oh boy...



Hillis isn't an issue of fit. Hillis is a permeable back. He can carve out a spot in all types of offenses, including any variant of the West Coast system. He's a bruiser with plus athleticism and surprising softness in the passing game. I'd be mildly shocked if Hillis' role in this offense was related to anything other than his contract situation.



Who argues otherwise? In reality, the Browns have four guys that I would feel comfortable calling impact players. Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Joe Haden, and Josh Cribbs as a special unit ace. Then they have a few players that are very solid contributors. Peyton Hillis, D'Qwell Jackson, Ahtyba Rubin, etc. I think Greg Little and Phil Taylor have fair potential to become impact players from what we've seen so far. But I really don't think anyone is arguing the Browns as contenders as currently constructed. The need for a talent infusion or two is quite obvious.

Quote:
Personally, I'd leave Mack out of the equation, OC is a secondary position on a pro football team, a position that almost all teams fill with a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Thomas is certainly an impact player and Haden is close but they were expected to be since they were both top 10 picks. Cribbs is a very nice player but like Hester isn't really an every down player.
My philosophy is simple, learned over 50 years of watching pro sports teams build themselves into champions, 'you finish last to get the top end talent to finish first', constantly finishing in the middle keeps you there for years.
Sure, it is easy to say, top 10 talent especially top 5 talent won't make you a champion but you put a solid NFL GM in charge of a team and he will use those picks to produce a solid contender.
Yeah, we can all point out players who became impact players from being drafted later in round 1 and even the lower rounds but it is a very tough challenge to find them and very few teams can rebuild using later picks.
Look at NE, a team that develops talent very well but drafts later in round 1, they have the 32nd ranked defense with only one impact player on that side of the ball, Mayo, who by the way is the only high draft pick on their defense. So if we continue to totally waste our high round 1 picks by trading back, it is a sure fire recipe for mediocrity, and with an owner who cannot stay the course and tends to panic quickly, no GM is ever going to get the time with him, to use a slow method of development.
I'd say our future is currently bleak, it is going to take a real miracle to right this sinking ship.

Teams do not need a slew of top five picks to become competitive. It's popular to say on a draft site, but it's simply not true. You can find talented players and important pieces all over the draft. The only position your argument has its merits at is quarterback. But it isn't impossible to find a promising signal-caller unless you're drafting first overall. Not to mention, the Browns have the ammunition to make a move for a big-time quarterback prospect if it's deemed necessary next April.

Quote:
Here I completely disagree, see above, I repeat, you finish last to get the talent to finish first through the draft. Sure, for years, Cincy, Buffalo, and even Arizona had high picks every year but they were all low income teams with very small scouting departments who lacked the funds to hire the top people to make their draft picks.
Detroit under Matt Millen is a perfect example of a horrible GM hired by a weak owner, who destroyed his team with high picks, but suddenly the owner gets lucky and finds a GM who got the job done with high picks and the Lions will only get better and be a top team for years.

I couldn't agree more on Big Ben. His style of play isn't easy to watch, but it's incredibly effective. Even when their defensive core completely falls apart outside of Timmons and Woodley, I think Ben's underrated ability keeps them very relevant within the division. But you're right. It's not like the Steelers are an unsurpassable road block. The same can be said for the Ravens.



That's a spot-on assessment of Cleveland's needs more or less. If Colt doesn't improve, quarterback is a first-round priority. So is a game-changing receiver and a stud pass rusher. Right tackle and guard are mid-round values to me. Personally, I would like the Browns to add some athleticism next to D'Qwell Jackson at linebacker. The second level of this defense is woefully unathletic. Free safety is probably a need too, I'm just not sure how dire yet.
First and foremost, we must get a franchise QB, without a stud at this position, you are not a contender, period.
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Old 10-16-2011, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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So is Hillis pretty much done in Cleveland? After all the lip service from Shurmur looks like they are going with Hardesty anyways.
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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Yup. Madden curse exists through coaching decisions now not just injury. Cleveland: Innovation for curses. ****
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Old 10-18-2011, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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seems like they suck at running the ball no matter who they put in there. I guess losing both of the starting OGs from last year and replacing them both with in all essence two rookies will do that.

I really don't get the whole not play hillis and until sunday hardly play evan moore (which was replaced with play watson a lot less). seems like we're taking our best playmakers off the field too much.

Our offense last year was Hillis and Watson. We need to get Hillis, Watson, and Cribbs the ball a LOT more if we're gonna do anything on offense. The west coast system is supposed to be about short passes with the backs and tight ends heavily involved. It seems like Colt's completion pct. is really low in part b/c we throw it downfield to our below average WRs too much.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:19 AM    (permalink
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Personally, I'd leave Mack out of the equation, OC is a secondary position on a pro football team, a position that almost all teams fill with a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Thomas is certainly an impact player and Haden is close but they were expected to be since they were both top 10 picks. Cribbs is a very nice player but like Hester isn't really an every down player.
Center is the second most important position on the offensive line. They’re responsible for making all of the line calls and keeping the quarterback clean. Alex Mack is one of the best in the NFL. He absolutely qualifies as an impact player.

As far as Cribbs goes, it doesn’t matter that he isn’t an every-down player. On special teams, he has an indelible impact on the course of a game. That makes him an impact player. He’s a fearsome weapon to have in the battle of field position. Consistently winning that battle is critical in the NFL.

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My philosophy is simple, learned over 50 years of watching pro sports teams build themselves into champions, 'you finish last to get the top end talent to finish first', constantly finishing in the middle keeps you there for years. Sure, it is easy to say, top 10 talent especially top 5 talent won't make you a champion but you put a solid NFL GM in charge of a team and he will use those picks to produce a solid contender.
I understand the basic premise behind the draft. But, again, that’s simply not true. See below.

2009 NFL Draft


Top 10 Pro Bowlers: None.

2009 NFL Draft Pro Bowlers: 1(13) Brian Orakpo, 1(15) Brian Cushing, 1(21) Alex Mack, 1(22) Percy Harvin, 1(26) Clay Matthews, 2(42) Jairus Byrd, 3(84) Mike Wallace, 5(140) Johnny Knox.

Notable Contributors: 1(17) Josh Freeman, 1(19) Jeremy Maclin, 1(20) Brandon Pettigrew, 1(29) Hakeem Nicks, 1(30) Kenny Britt, 1(31) Beanie Wells, 2(35) James Laurinaitis, 2(53) LeSean McCoy, 2(55) William Moore, 2(58) Sebastian Vollmer, 3(65) Shonn Greene, 3(76) DeAndre Levy, 4(107) Mike Thomas, 4(108) Brian Hartline, 4(110) Victor Butler, 4(127) Austin Collie, 6(203) Jason McCourty, 7(232) Julian Edelman, 7(240) LaRod Stephens-Howling, 7(250) Rashad Jennings.

Undrafted Free Agents: Arian Foster (Pro Bowler), Jacob Lacey, Jamaal Westerman, Michael Bennett.

2008 NFL Draft


Top 10 Pro Bowlers: 1(1) Jake Long, 1(3) Matt Ryan, 1(10) Jarod Mayo.

2008 NFL Draft Pro Bowlers: 1(12) Ryan Clady, 1(16) Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, 1(24) Chris Johnson, 1(25) Mike Jenkins, 2(49) DeSean Jackson, 2(55) Ray Rice, 3(73) Jamaal Charles, 5(164) Carl Nicks.

Notable Contributors: 1(13) Jonathan Stewart, 1(18) Joe Flacco, 1(20) Aqib Talib, 1(22) Felix Jones, 1(23) Rashard Mendenhall, 2(35) Brandon Flowers, 2(36) Jordy Nelson, 2(44) Matt Forte, 2(50) Calais Campbell, 2(54) Jason Jones, 3(91) Jermichael Finley, 3(92) Cliff Avril, 3(95) Mario Manningham, 4(122) Tashard Choice, 4(135) Josh Sitton, 5(139) Ryan Torain, 5(149) Tim Hightower, 6(190) Ahtyba Rubin, 6(205) Pierre Garcon, 7(224) Steve Johnson, 7(227) Peyton Hillis.

Undrafted Free Agents: Dan Carpenter (Pro Bowler), Clifton Smith (Pro Bowler), Danny Amendola, Davone Bess, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Gary Guyton, Jameel McClain, Mike Tolbert, Danny Woodhead.

2007 NFL Draft


Top 10 Pro Bowlers: 1(2) Calvin Johnson, 1(3) Joe Thomas, 1(7) Adrian Peterson.

2007 NFL Draft Pro Bowlers: (11) Patrick Willis, 1(12) Marshawn Lynch, 1(14) Darrelle Revis, 1(19) Michael Griffin, 1(23) Dwayne Bowe, 1(24) Brandon Meriweather, 1(25) Jon Beason, 2(38) Zach Miller, 2(45) Sidney Rice, 2(46) LaMarr Woodley, 2(51) Steve Smith, 2(59) Ryan Kalil, 4(116) Zak DeOssie, 4(137) LeRon McClain, 6(178) Nick Folk.

Notable Contributors: 1(15) Lawrence Timmons, 1(18) Leon Hall, 1(29) Ben Grubbs, 2(34) Paul Posluszny, 2(36) Kevin Kolb, 2(37) Eric Weddle, 2(39) Justin Blalock, 2(47) David Harris, 3(68) Quincy Black, 3(78) James Jones, 3(79) Mike Sims-Walker, 3(83) Charles Johnson, 3(85) Brandon Mebane, 3(86) Marshal Yanda, 4(100) Michael Bush, 4(106) Tanard Jackson, 4(108) Paul Soliai, 4(115) LeRoy Harris, 4(122) Doug Free, 4(125) Jermon Bushrod, 4(126) DaShon Goldson, 4(136) Clint Session, 5(153) Kevin Boss, 5(162) Brent Celek, 5(172) Legedu Naane, 6(192) Desmond Bishop, 6(193) Mason Crosby, 7(250) Ahmad Bradshaw.

Undrafted Free Agents: Eric Weems (Pro Bowler), Pierre Thomas, Lyle Sendlein, Stephon Heyer, Melvin Bullitt, Mike DeVito.

2006 NFL Draft


Top 10 Pro Bowlers: 1(1) Mario Williams, 1(3) Vince Young, 1(4) D’Brickashaw Ferguson, 1(5) Vernon Davis, 1(7) Michael Huff.

2006 NFL Draft Pro Bowlers: 1(11) Jay Cutler, 1(12) Haloti Ngata, 1(19) Antonio Cromartie, 1(20) Tamba Hali, 1(23) Davin Joseph, 1(27) DeAngelo Williams, 1(28) Mercedes Lewis, 1(29) Nick Mangold, 1(30) Joseph Addai, 2(33) DeMeco Ryans, 2(43) Roman Harper, 2(50) Marcus McNeil, 2(52) Greg Jennings, 2(57) Devin Hester, 2(60) Maurice Jones-Drew, 4(98) Owen Daniels, 4(108) Jahri Evans, 4(117) Leon Washington, 4(118) Stephen Gostkowski, 4(119) Brandon Marshall, 4(126) Elvis Dumervil, 5(134) Kyle Williams, 6(207) Antoine Bethea, 7(215) Cortland Finnegan.

Notable Contributors: 1(17) Chad Greenway, 1(24) Jonathan Joseph, 1(25) Santonio Holmes, 2(34) D’Qwell Jackson, 4(103) Brad Smith, 4(116) Stephen Tulloch, 4(124) Barry Cofield, 4(127) Ray Edwards, 5(145) Jerome Harrison, 5(146) Dawan Landry, 6(180) Lawrence Vickers, 7(252) Marques Colston.

Undrafted Free Agents: Miles Austin (Pro Bowler), Tramon Williams (Pro Bowler), Brent Grimes (Pro Bowler), Donald Penn (Pro Bowler), Montell Owens (Pro Bowler).

2005 NFL Draft


Top 10 Pro Bowlers: 1(2) Ronnie Brown, 1(3) Braylon Edwards, 1(8) Antrel Rolle.

2005 NFL Draft Pro Bowlers: 1(11) DeMarcus Ware, 1(12) Shawne Merriman, 1(13) Jamaal Brown, 1(24) Aaron Rodgers, 1(27) Roddy White, 1(30) Heath Miller, 1(32) Logan Mankins, 2(41) Michael Roos, 2(45) Lofa Tatupu, 2(51) Nick Collins, 2(57) Justin Miller, 2(61) Vincent Jackson, 3(65) Frank Gore, 3(74) Justin Tuck, 4(109) Marion Barber III, 4(114) Jerome Mathis, 5(146) Trent Cole, 6(213) Derek Anderson, 7(224) Jay Ratliff, 7(230) Matt Cassel.

Notable Contributors: 1(14) Thomas Davis, 1(20) Marcus Spears, 2(36) Barrett Ruud, 2(43) Corey Webster, 2(59) Jonathan Babineaux, 3(66) O.J. Atogwe, 3(78) Kirk Morrison, 4(106) Kyle Orton, 4(115) Brandon Jacobs, 4(123) Kerry Rhodes, 4(130) Darren Sproles, 4(132) Chris Canty, 5(160) Michael Boley, 7(250) Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Undrafted Free Agents: Cameron Wake (Pro Bowler), Josh Cribbs (Pro Bowler), Leonard Weaver (Pro Bowler), Robbie Gould (Pro Bowler), Heath Farwell (Pro Bowler), John Denney (Pro Bowler), Ryan Grant, Lance Moore, Nate Washington, Jim Leonhard, James Butler.

2004 NFL Draft


Top 10 Pro Bowlers: 1(1) Eli Manning, 1(3) Larry Fitzgerald, 1(4) Philip Rivers, 1(5) Sean Taylor, 1(6) Kellen Winslow, 1(7) Roy Williams, 1(8) DeAngelo Hall.

2004 NFL Draft Pro Bowlers: 1(11) Ben Roethlisberger, 1(12) Jonathan Vilma, 1(14) Tommie Harris, 1(16) Shawn Andrews, 1(18) Will Smith, 1(21) Vince Wilfork, 1(24) Steven Jackson, 1(27) Jason Babin, 2(34) Chris Snee, 2(44) Bob Sanders, 2(55) Greg Jones, 3(64) Darnell Dockett, 3(65) Nate Kaeding, 3(66) Nick Hardwick, 3(71) Randy Starks, 3(81) Chris Cooley, 3(90) Matt Schaub, 4(98) Shaun Phillips, 4(110) Nathan Vasher, 4(126) Jared Allen, 5(154) Michael Turner, 6(188) Andy Lee.

Notable Contributors: 1(28) Chris Gamble, 2(33) Karlos Dansby, 2(35) Igor Olshansky, 2(47) Tank Johnson, 2(50) Devery Henderson, 3(75) Max Starks, 3(77) Bernard Berrian, 3(94) Travelle Wharton, 4(108) Jerricho Cotchery, 5(135) Antonio Smith, 7(216) Patrick Clayton.

Undrafted Free Agents: Wes Welker (Pro Bowler), Jason Peters (Pro Bowler), Vonta Leach (Pro Bowler), Willie Parker (Pro Bowler), Mat McBriar (Pro Bowler), Jon Condo (Pro Bowler), Ryan Lilja, Malcom Floyd.

2003 NFL Draft


Top 10 Pro Bowlers: 1(1) Carson Palmer, 1(3) Andre Johnson, 1(5) Terrance Newman, 1(8) Jordan Gross, 1(9) Kevin Williams, 1(10) Terrell Suggs.

2003 NFL Draft Pro Bowlers: 1(11) Marcus Trufant, 1(16) Troy Polamalu, 1(21) Jeff Faine, 1(23) Willis McGahee, 1(24) Dallas Clark, 1(27) Larry Johnson, 1(31) Nnamdi Asomugha, 2(37) Jon Stinchcomb, 2(39) Rashean Mathis, 2(40) E.J. Henderson, 2(42) Ken Hamlin, 2(54) Anquan Boldin, 2(56) Osi Umenyiora, 3(68) Lance Briggs, 3(69) Jason Witten, 4(111) Terrance McGee, 4(120) Asante Samuel, 4(124) Brandon Lloyd, 4(134) Ovie Mugheli, 5(138) Robert Mathis, 5(142) Ryan Pontbriand, 5(160) David Diehl, 5(164) Dan Koppen, 6(188) Hanik Milligan, 6(198) Cato June, 6(211) David Tyree, 6(213) Yeremiah Bell.

Notable Contributors: 1(13) Ty Warren, 1(18) Calvin Pace, 1(29) Nick Barnett, 2(33) Eric Steinbach, 2(35) Charles Tillman, 3(74) Kevin Curtis, 3(81) Derrick Dockery, 4(109) Jarrett Johnson, 5(146) Aubrayo Franklin, 5(149) Mike Scrifes, 5(173) Tony Pashos, 6(195) Antonio Garay, 7(239) Tully Banta-Cain, 7(251) Scott Shanle, 7(255) Kevin Walter.

Undrafted Free Agents: Antonio Gates (Pro Bowler), Tony Romo (Pro Bowler), Kris Dielman (Pro Bowler), Quinten Mikell (Pro Bowler), Brendan Ayanbadejo (Pro Bowler), Jon Dorenbos (Pro Bowler), Kassim Osgood (Pro Bowler), Fred Jackson, Cullen Jenkins, Gary Brackett, Earnest Graham.

2002 NFL Draft


Top 10 Pro Bowlers: 1(2) Julius Peppers, 1(7) Bryant McKinnie, 1(8) Roy Williams, 1(9) John Henderson.

2002 NFL Draft Pro Bowlers: 1(11) Dwight Freeney, 1(14) Jeremy Shockey, 1(15) Albert Haynesworth, 1(20) Javon Walker, 1(24) Ed Reed, 1(26) Lito Sheppard, 2(37) Andre Gurode, 2(44) LeCharles Bentley, 2(51) Clinton Portis, 2(58) Michael Lewis, 3(91) Brian Westbrook, 3(94) Chris Hope, 4(108) David Garrard, 5(154) Jonathan Goodwin, 5(156) Aaron Kampman, 7(242) Brett Keisel.

Notable Contributors: 1(25) Charles Grant, 1(29) Marc Colombo, 1(30) Kendall Simmons, 2(50) Chester Pitts, 2(53) Langston Walker, 2(59) Sheldon Brown, 2(62) Antwan Randle El, 2(63) Antonio Bryant, 2(65) Deion Branch, 3(71) Ben Leber, 3(73) Will Witherspoon, 3(89) Akin Ayodele, 4(104) Alex Brown, 4(128) Larry Foote, 5(143) Scott Fujita, 5(146) Rocky Bernard, 5(147) Kenyon Coleman, 6(207) Chester Taylor, 7(244) Kevin Shaffer, 7 (248) Kyle Kosier.

Undrafted Free Agents: James Harrison (Pro Bowler), Bart Scott (Pro Bowler), Ryan Nece (Pro Bowler), Ryan Clark, Ma’ake Kemoeatu, Brandon Moore.

2001 NFL Draft

Top 10 Pro Bowlers: 1(1) Michael Vick, 1(2) Leonard Davis, 1(4) Justin Smith, 1(5) LaDainian Tomlinson, 1(6) Richard Seymour, 1(9) Koren Robinson.

2001 NFL Draft Pro Bowlers: 1(11) Dan Morgan, 1(13) Marcus Stroud, 1(16) Santana Moss, 1(17) Steve Hutchinson, 1(19) Casey Hampton, 1(21) Nate Clements, 1(23) Deuce McAllister, 1(27) Michael Bennett, 1(30) Reggie Wayne, 1(31) Todd Heap, 2(32) Drew Brees, 2(34) Kyle Vanden Bosch, 2(35) Alge Crumpler, 2(36) Chad Johnson, 2(39) Kendrell Bell, 2(44) Kris Jenkins, 2(46) Aaron Schobel, 2(48) Matt Light, 2(52) Chris Chambers, 2(58) Travis Henry, 2(61) Shaun Rogers, 3(63) Derrick Burgess, 3(64) Adrian Wilson, 3(74) Steve Smith, 4(100) Rudi Johnson, 5(140) Alex Bannister, 6(204) T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

Notable Contributors: 1(18) Jeff Backus, 1(29) Ryan Pickett, 2(50) Dominic Riola, 2(62) Gary Baxter, 3(79) Kareem McKinzie, 3(95) Jonas Jennings, 4(97) Anthony Henry, 4(128) Floyd Womack.

Undrafted Free Agents: Rob Bironas (Pro Bowler), Antonio Pierce (Pro Bowler), Shayne Graham (Pro Bowler), Dominic Rhodes, Rich Seubert.

2000 NFL Draft

Top 10 Pro Bowlers: 1(2) LaVar Arrington, 1(3) Chris Samuels, 1(5) Jamal Lewis, 1(6) Corey Simon, 1(7) Thomas Jones, 1(9) Brian Urlacher.

2000 NFL Draft Pro Bowlers: 1(12) Shaun Ellis, 1(13) John Abraham, 1(14) Bubba Franks, 1(15) Deltha O’Neal, 1(16) Julian Peterson, 1(19) Shaun Alexander, 1(30) Keith Bulluck, 2(38) Marvel Smith, 2(39) Mike Brown, 2(40) Ian Gold, 2(44) Chad Clifton, 2(59) Marcus Washington, 3(78) Laveranues Coles, 5(142) Shane Lechler, 5(149) Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, 5(153) Dante Hall, 6(168) Marc Bulger, 6(169) Neil Rackers, 6(186) Adalius Thomas, 6(199) Tom Brady, 7(230) Brian Jennings.

Notable Contributors: 1(18) Chad Pennington, 2(33) Darren Howard, 2(55) Fred Robbins, 3(80) Darrell Jackson, 3(81) Reuben Droughns, 4(96) Terrelle Smith, 6(177) Dhani Jones, 6(196) Robaire Smith, 7(224) Mark Tauscher.

Undrafted Free Agents: Adewale Ogunleye (Pro Bowler), Brian Water (Pro Bowler), Shaun O’Hara (Pro Bowler), Hank Fraley, James Hall.

For the record, that's forty-three Pro Bowlers coming from the top ten, one hundred eighty-eight Pro Bowlers from the remainder of the draft, and thirty-seven Pro Bowlers signed as undrafted free agents. Like I said, you can find legitimate talent outside the top ten.

Now, the Pro Bowl isn't an impeccable measuring stick of productivity, but it's a reasonable indicator of success and gives us a baseline way to judge the talent spersed throughout the draft.

As you can see, the success rate of top ten picks is nowhere near 100%. In fact, it probably hovers right around 50%. Every guy drafted high isn’t going to hit. And, to your last point, if you put a competent general manager in charge of a team, he will use whatever picks he has to produce a contender. Be they top five or fifth-round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Yeah, we can all point out players who became impact players from being drafted later in round 1 and even the lower rounds but it is a very tough challenge to find them and very few teams can rebuild using later picks. Look at NE, a team that develops talent very well but drafts later in round 1, they have the 32nd ranked defense with only one impact player on that side of the ball, Mayo, who by the way is the only high draft pick on their defense. So if we continue to totally waste our high round 1 picks by trading back, it is a sure fire recipe for mediocrity, and with an owner who cannot stay the course and tends to panic quickly, no GM is ever going to get the time with him, to use a slow method of development.
Mayo isn’t even New England’s best defensive playmaker. That honor belongs to Vince Wilfork. Who, by the way, wasn’t a top ten pick. And no one is arguing that it isn’t harder to find playmakers deeper in the draft. That’s an obvious point. But the best front offices and franchises make a habit out of unearthing diamonds in the rough. Stockpiling high picks isn’t the key to building a team and contending on a yearly basis. Having smart decision-makers in your war room is the key.

How exactly did we “totally waste” our first-rounder by trading back this year? Let me pose you a question. In football, the ultimate team sport, would you rather have Julio Jones or Nick Fairley OR would you rather have Phil Taylor AND Greg Little. Personally, I’d rather have the latter. The early returns on both those picks look pretty promising, too.

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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Here I completely disagree, see above, I repeat, you finish last to get the talent to finish first through the draft. Sure, for years, Cincy, Buffalo, and even Arizona had high picks every year but they were all low income teams with very small scouting departments who lacked the funds to hire the top people to make their draft picks.
And, I repeat, that’s just not true. See above. It goes without saying that low-income teams with scouting departments in shambles aren’t going to find sustainable success anywhere in the draft; however, the top people do consistently find success at every level of the draft. In the top ten, in the early rounds, in the mid rounds, and in the late rounds. The draft process is a fraught with pitfalls, sure, but the best of the best maximize every selection. Overall team depth is an important component of competing in the NFL. Injuries happen in a sport as physical as football. Teams that find themselves thin at essential positions rely on staying healthy for an entire season. The odds of that happening though are pretty slim. That’s why the most successful front offices value all of their picks, not just the highest ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Here I completely disagree, see above, I repeat, you finish last to get the talent to finish first through the draft. Sure, for years, Cincy, Buffalo, and even Arizona had high picks every year but they were all low income teams with very small scouting departments who lacked the funds to hire the top people to make their draft picks.
Once again, the Lions are not the be-all, end-all model. There was a fair amount of luck involved in their ascendance. Two of the best prospects of the past decade fell right into their laps in Stafford and Suh. Those are the only high picks under Mayhew that are contributing for them right now. Not every team can count on being so blessed.

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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
First and foremost, we must get a franchise QB, without a stud at this position, you are not a contender, period.
Agreed.
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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FRANTZ' RANTS: Cribbs' talent being wasted
This, this and more this.
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Old 10-20-2011, 08:03 AM    (permalink
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Good article on Cribbs. I have to agree, the WCO is predicated on the short/medium range passing game. Cribbs has the ability to break tackles and put up good YAC numbers. Part of me thinks Shurmur is a little overmatched so far. He seems pretty pass happy with this offense.
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Old 10-24-2011, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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Since moving to FL 2 years ago, I don't get to see many Brown's games, so I'll defer to you guys on how we are playing, but from what I hear on the radio and see in highlights, I'm starting to get worried about Colt.

I was taking a wait-and-see approach this year, as he is still young and needs reps to get accustomed to NFL speed, but he just doesn't seem to taking steps anymore. If I could see tangible evidence of improvement week-over-week, I'd be more willing to be patient, but it just doesn't seem to be clicking for him.

I think the most troubling thing to me is his lack of accuracy, when that is supposed to be his major strength. If he's not accurate, he doesn't have anything and we need to move on next year. I hope he can find himself again, because I like Colt and think he has all the tools to win in this league if he can regain his accuracy and confidence. I find the arm strength arguments overblown.

We seem to need a lot of help on this side of the ball. I don't know if the running game should be blamed on the passing game not stretching the field, the OL not opening holes, or the RB's not being as good as I thought, but something needs to be done. I think we need a RT, possibly another WR (depending on how Little develops as a starter), and maybe a QB (I hope not).

Mostly I think we lack speed/explosiveness.

On the plus-side, the defense is really impressing me. I'm trying to take it with a grain of salt seeing as we've not played any explosive offenses, but currently we have the 4th ranked defense in terms of yards/game. We are getting much more pressure on the QB than last year (without Marcus Benard) and Joe Haden is obviously turning (has already turned) into a stud, shutdown type CB.

We are so young right now that I think we have a chance to be really good on defense for a long time. What do you guys think? Maybe another OLB, probably a Sam to replace Fujita, and a CB opposite Haden. Possibly a FS as well, I'm not sure how Usama Young has looked.
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Old 10-24-2011, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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His arm strength argument isn't overblown. It's weak as ****. I gave it the benefit of the doubt prior to the season; however, when you watch him try to throw 15+ yards it looks like a punt. A ******* punt. He holds onto the ball for too long too when receivers create separation for a second.

He is making no progress whatsoever, as a matter of fact, he gets worse on a week to week basis. And you're also correct about his inaccuracy. He's having trouble hitting ******* 5 yard crossing routes. Little is our best receiver sadly, a 2nd round pick that hadn't played football in a year. It's a fact we need help at receiver, not an opinion.

And also, the right side of our line sucks Lauvao is ineffective from what I can see and Pashos is.. well, I don't know, average at best? We need some roadgraders. It doesn't matter if we have 2 pro bowlers, they can't block 5 defenders.

Hardesty looked fine this week running against one of the best run defenses in the league, i know his YPC was **** this week but if you watched jesus christ did he fight for his yards. He and Hillis could be pretty effective if used properly. BUT WAIT, I forgot, safeties against us can play 8 yards off the line of scrimmage for run support because Colt can't ******* throw 20 yards downfield.

We have no speed, no deep threat, our offense scares no one. And yeah, trust me, I get that Colt hasn't even started a full season but jesus ******* christ his completion percentage is laughable for a WCO qb.

You're right with our defensive needs to: 2nd cb, coverage FS is a def need. Usama is nothing. We do need some speed at outside linebacker also. Perhaps a more effective replacement for Mitchell even though he has been okay. Not bad.
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fear the elf View Post
Since moving to FL 2 years ago, I don't get to see many Brown's games, so I'll defer to you guys on how we are playing, but from what I hear on the radio and see in highlights, I'm starting to get worried about Colt.

I was taking a wait-and-see approach this year, as he is still young and needs reps to get accustomed to NFL speed, but he just doesn't seem to taking steps anymore. If I could see tangible evidence of improvement week-over-week, I'd be more willing to be patient, but it just doesn't seem to be clicking for him.

I think the most troubling thing to me is his lack of accuracy, when that is supposed to be his major strength. If he's not accurate, he doesn't have anything and we need to move on next year. I hope he can find himself again, because I like Colt and think he has all the tools to win in this league if he can regain his accuracy and confidence. I find the arm strength arguments overblown.

We seem to need a lot of help on this side of the ball. I don't know if the running game should be blamed on the passing game not stretching the field, the OL not opening holes, or the RB's not being as good as I thought, but something needs to be done. I think we need a RT, possibly another WR (depending on how Little develops as a starter), and maybe a QB (I hope not).

Mostly I think we lack speed/explosiveness.

On the plus-side, the defense is really impressing me. I'm trying to take it with a grain of salt seeing as we've not played any explosive offenses, but currently we have the 4th ranked defense in terms of yards/game. We are getting much more pressure on the QB than last year (without Marcus Benard) and Joe Haden is obviously turning (has already turned) into a stud, shutdown type CB.

We are so young right now that I think we have a chance to be really good on defense for a long time. What do you guys think? Maybe another OLB, probably a Sam to replace Fujita, and a CB opposite Haden. Possibly a FS as well, I'm not sure how Usama Young has looked.
The worries regarding Colt are pretty much spot-on. Now, I wasn't expecting Colt to come out and light the world on fire this year, but I was expecting measurable improvement. Just clear signs of progress. Asking any sophomore for mastery of their position is unreasonable, especially one as complex as quarterback. Understandably, Colt is still working through a steep learning curve. That said, I haven't seen any indicators that would suggest he's a long-term answer at quarterback aside from his intangibles and work ethic. And, suffice it to say, those two qualities can only carry you so far at such a demanding position. Eventually you need to show people you belong on the field.

A bloc of Browns fans have argued that it's impossible to get a fair assessment of Colt because he lacks talent around him. While that's a valid point, I don't consider it so simple. Colt can still control certain things. Certain things that he isn't currently doing. For example, his accuracy and ball placement have regressed. With his limitations in arm strength, he doesn't have much room for error in those departments. If he can't be an accurate passer in the short-to-intermediate range, his shot at succeeding is slim to none. Also, our wide receiver corps is getting hammered, and a lot of the criticism is justifiable, but Colt isn't helping them out. The best quarterbacks in the NFL make their receivers better. They throw with anticipation. They throw their guys open. Colt isn't doing either of those things. He's jittering in the pocket waiting for them to do all the work and gain separation. Separation is a different concept in the NFL from college. In college, when you hear about separation, it's often a receiver breaking completely free of his man and leaving his quarterback an easy throw. In pro ball, the windows are a lot tighter, so quarterbacks need to make more and more stick throws. Right now, Colt hasn't shown the capability to do that. If he doesn't improve, and I'm growing skeptical he does, then he needs to be replaced.

Regarding our other needs, on the offensive side of the ball, I think we need to makeover the right side of the offensive line with a couple maulers. A dynamic playmaker on the perimeter is a necessity, even though I'm optimistic concerning Greg Little's prospectus. Maybe add a shiftier runner to the stable to compliment our current backs. Defensively, our biggest need is an impact pass rusher. The young linemen have played well, but I don't think either defensive end profiles as a true difference-maker and stockpiling pass rushers is a smart strategy. I think we need to put at least another athletic, run-and-hit linebacker next to D'Qwell. I'm curiously watching Skrine's development. He has all the tools to be a legitimate starting cornerback in this league. If the free safety play doesn't pick up, that's also a need. Overall, we need to improve team athleticism and explosiveness. We were the most unathletic team in the NFL under Mangini. That needs to change. Obviously, all of those needs aren't going to be crossed off in a single off-season, but there's plenty of shopping to do for Browns management.
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:59 PM    (permalink
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3. The Browns continue to stink against the AFC North.
Since the AFC North was created during realignment in 2002, the Browns own a 14-42 record against the division. Worse yet, the Browns started off with a 7-11 record from 2002-2004. Therefore, the Browns are 7-31 since 2005 against the AFC North, with three wins of those wins coming in 2007. If the Browns get swept by the Baltimore Ravens and Pittsburgh Steelers, as they already were by the Bengals, the Browns will average one win per season against the division since 2005.
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:57 AM    (permalink
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Hey guys, Cowboys fan here. I guess Rob liked your secondary coach from when they worked together and he's been brought to Dallas. Is Henderson any good? Thanks.
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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Probably better than Campo. Helped develop Revis and Haden. Our secondary help up decently this year without much beyond Joe Haden-guess he's taken some credit for that.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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Henderson is a big get for Dallas. Gonna be sad to see him go. People in the know really thought he was a great DB coach.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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Thanks for the input guys. I saw you guys were 2nd against the past this year, but the two years prior to that it was 18 and 28th I believe. Any reason for the jump in production?

As a Cowboys fan I find it pretty funny and disturbing that the year after Rob Ryan leaves your passing defense was great, but with him it wasn't...
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:53 AM    (permalink
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Thanks for the input guys. I saw you guys were 2nd against the past this year, but the two years prior to that it was 18 and 28th I believe. Any reason for the jump in production?

As a Cowboys fan I find it pretty funny and disturbing that the year after Rob Ryan leaves your passing defense was great, but with him it wasn't...
Because why would you pass when you're playing the 30th ranked run defense?
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Old 01-12-2012, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Because why would you pass when you're playing the 30th ranked run defense?
That's definitely got a lot to do with it but it should be pointed out that we were essentially just as bad at defending the run in '09 and '10, so some improvement definitely took place this year; just not sure how much...


Year :: Rk :: Att :: Att/G :: Yards :: Avg :: TD
2011 :: 30 :: 534 :: 33.4 :: 2,359 :: 4.4 :: 12
2010 :: 27 :: 505 :: 31.6 :: 2,070 :: 4.1 :: 7
2009 :: 28 :: 506 :: 31.6 :: 2,314 :: 4.6 :: 15
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