Joe Paterno fired

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by Grizzlegom

Just a little context, this all came out originally in 1998. As someone who has been following Penn State for a LONG time, the story came out in 98 and the police looked into an incident back then and he was promptly cleared of all charges. In no way am I defending the actions of anyone involved but JoePa did everything he was supposed to do, including forcing Sandusky into retirement. I fully believe Curley and the VP of Finance should be fired but there's no reason that this should affect JoePa's legacy, nor should it force him into retirement (many around the program felt this was his final year regardless of this incident so don't assume that if he retires it was because of this). As soon as he had any suspicions, he reported it to his superior and removed the coach from his coaching staff, how can you put any blame on him? Because he didn't report anything to the police who were already investigating Sandusky? C'mon man.

If JoePa called the cops, this would have been over long ago.

Sandusky was forced out because they couldn't prove anything but it was highly suspicious.

JoePa could have had the guy banned from campus at the very least.

[Grizzlegom]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown

If JoePa called the cops, this would have been over long ago.

Sandusky was forced out because they couldn't prove anything but it was highly suspicious.

JoePa could have had the guy banned from campus at the very least.

The police performed a full investigation and found nothing to charge him with. How is that Joe Paterno's fault? In addition, agreed it was suspicious but aren't you innocent until proven guilty in this country? Hard to ban someone who is cleared of all charges (unless your name is Roger Goodell).

[descendency]

The part that bothers me is that Penn State didn't seem to try to stop him from bringing children to campus after they learned about the allegations.

[WCH]

Originally Posted by Grizzlegom

The police performed a full investigation and found nothing to charge him with. How is that Joe Paterno's fault? In addition, agreed it was suspicious but aren't you innocent until proven guilty in this country? Hard to ban someone who is cleared of all charges (unless your name is Roger Goodell).

It seems that nobody notified the police later, in 2002, when McQueary witnessed a boy being raped in a shower.

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by Grizzlegom

The police performed a full investigation and found nothing to charge him with. How is that Joe Paterno's fault? In addition, agreed it was suspicious but aren't you innocent until proven guilty in this country? Hard to ban someone who is cleared of all charges (unless your name is Roger Goodell).

In 98 the local cops (the guys under JoePa's control) cleared Sandusky to the point that a coach of 32 years, and the heir apparent to be head coach, was forced out. That should tell you enough that the guy was probably found by those investigators and the school to be pretty damn guilty but maybe to the point where they couldn't prove it.

So in that case, any decent human would ban the former superstar coach that was forced out for the incidents from campus.

[Trogdor]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown

If JoePa called the cops, this would have been over long ago.

Sandusky was forced out because they couldn't prove anything but it was highly suspicious.

JoePa could have had the guy banned from campus at the very least.

So the fact the police failed in their investigation means it's JoePa's fault. JoePa all of a sudden is in charge of all Penn State University grounds? News to me. Take the blatant OSU hatred for PSU and direct your anger towards those who have earned it. JoePa reported SUSPICION to the AD and was 100% compliant with all investigations.

I hate everyone involved more than you can possibly imagine so don't try and act like my vision is clouded. I am simply applying the information available and using logic as opposed to piling on when it's possible.

You acted just as irrationally in the sweatvest-gate thread(s) defending a coach who actually WAS found to be guilty of something.

[Trogdor]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown

In 98 the local cops (the guys under JoePa's control) cleared Sandusky to the point that a coach of 32 years, and the heir apparent to be head coach, was forced out. That should tell you enough that the guy was probably found by those investigators and the school to be pretty damn guilty but maybe to the point where they couldn't prove it.

So in that case, any decent human would ban the former superstar coach that was forced out for the incidents from campus.

LMAO. So now it's JoePa's responsibility to make sure the police are working efficiently. You are looking like a troll good sir.

[Grizzlegom]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown

In 98 the local cops (the guys under JoePa's control) cleared Sandusky to the point that a coach of 32 years, and the heir apparent to be head coach, was forced out. That should tell you enough that the guy was probably found by those investigators and the school to be pretty damn guilty but maybe to the point where they couldn't prove it.

So in that case, any decent human would ban the former superstar coach that was forced out for the incidents from campus.

Now the police are corrupt. Cool story bro.

I just find it a little ridiculous that the grand jury felt JoePa did everything he was supposed to do and puts no blame on him or anything yet you continue to attack him like he did something wrong. I'm clearly biased in his favor but its pretty clear you are equally as biased against him.

[JoeJoeBrown]

You psu homers are priceless.

[FUNBUNCHER]

What else was Paterno supposed to do?? Hire his own private investigator and watch Sandusky under 24 hour surveillance once he was fired???

I wish Paterno had done more, instead of doing only what was required. What disgusts me about this situation is that in 30 years that Sandusky was under his hire, my gut tells me there have been 'stories' and rumors about Sandusky that never left the PSU program.

[Grizzlegom]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown

You psu homers are priceless.

As priceless as you Ohio State homers.

[WCH]

If McQueary had immediately called the police when he witnessed the rape, they may have been able to catch Sandusky in the area with the boy. If they couldn't, they could have likely found video footage of him entering/leaving the building with the boy during the hours that McQueary claimed. There would have been physical evidence proving that sexual misconduct had taken place.

I don't have much of an opinion on Paterno at this point, but McQueary really screwed up that night. Mistakes happen, but to witness the rape of a child and not immediately notify police is pretty bad.

[Smooth Criminal]

Like I said earlier, while getting group as an OSU homer I guess, Paternity was not criminally responsible for anything, but knowing what he knew I don't think he performed all his moral obligations.

According to everything out there, he knew about both the incident in 98 and 02. Knowing about both of them, I think he had a duty to do anything in his power to make sure this man never even saw a kid again. To me, he performed his legal duty, but he really didn't do everything he could have.

[ElectricEye]

I think both Paterno and the Graduate Assistant were wrong. The people higher up even more so...but when you witness an absolutely heinous crime like that, you don't treat it like some sort of procedural thing. What's the athletic director going to do that you can't? You notify the authorities RIGHT away. That's more on Mike McQueary than anyone else...but the fact it was over a week and a half later before any action was taken when you saw someone close to the university anally violating a ten year old child really makes me question the humanity of almost everyone involved. Someone should have had the guts to do the right thing.

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

I think both Paterno and the Graduate Assistant were wrong. The people higher up even more so...but when you witness an absolutely heinous crime like that, you don't treat it like some sort of procedural thing. What's the athletic director going to do that you can't? You notify the authorities RIGHT away. That's more on Mike McQueary than anyone else...but the fact it was over a week and a half later before any action was taken when you saw someone close to the university anally violating a ten year old child really makes me question the humanity of almost everyone involved. Someone should have had the guts to do the right thing.

Exactly. I don't know how one can try to defend any of these people.

Also if you don't think JoePa has a hell of a lot of influence on the cops griz you are being naive. Tiny town. Big school. Huge legend. If he wants something he gets it. He has gotten so many players out of legal trouble by saying that he'd take care of their punishment that there is a high probability that he could help one of his friends out.

Regardless, I hope Sandusky is put through a lot of pain and that psu pushes the whole rotten football and ad regime out soon.

[FUNBUNCHER]

No cop covers up allegations made by a HC of child molestation/rape by one of his assistants.

You've gone from criticizing Paterno to slandering him.

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

No cop covers up allegations made by a HC of child molestation/rape by one of his assistants.

You've gone from criticizing Paterno to slandering him.

Slander? No. Trogdor wanted a straw man so I gave it to him.

[BRAVEHEART]

[Grizzlegom]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown

Exactly. I don't know how one can try to defend any of these people.

Also if you don't think JoePa has a hell of a lot of influence on the cops griz you are being naive. Tiny town. Big school. Huge legend. If he wants something he gets it. He has gotten so many players out of legal trouble by saying that he'd take care of their punishment that there is a high probability that he could help one of his friends out.

Regardless, I hope Sandusky is put through a lot of pain and that psu pushes the whole rotten football and ad regime out soon.

There is no shortage of strange cases in Penn State's history of players having an easy time from the cops from the 70s and 80s but there hasn't been anything like that since the mid-80s and if these allegations and the police investigation went back to those times, I actually would be open to the possibility/argument that members in the administration had sway with law enforcement but fact is, there's no evidence to support that claim in the last 20 years. In fact, since Kerry Collins' drunken escapades in the early 90s, university and State College police have been extremely harsh on players, with Paterno having a quick finger to suspend anyone prematurely, even throwing a few players off the team outright even though they were later cleared of charges or plead to misdemeanors (Chris Baker, Austin Scott, and Phil Taylor immediately come to mind). Its a far cry to make the jump from things like public drunkenness to child molestation.

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by Grizzlegom

There is no shortage of strange cases in Penn State's history of players having an easy time from the cops from the 70s and 80s but there hasn't been anything like that since the mid-80s and if these allegations and the police investigation went back to those times, I actually would be open to the possibility/argument that members in the administration had sway with law enforcement but fact is, there's no evidence to support that claim in the last 20 years. In fact, since Kerry Collins' drunken escapades in the early 90s, university and State College police have been extremely harsh on players, with Paterno having a quick finger to suspend anyone prematurely, even throwing a few players off the team outright even though they were later cleared of charges or plead to misdemeanors (Chris Baker, Austin Scott, and Phil Taylor immediately come to mind). Its a far cry to make the jump from things like public drunkenness to child molestation.

Well stated and I am forced to withdraw my straw man.

I used to like JoePa and I think this has just shocked me a bit. I overreact when shocked I guess.

[slightlyaraiderfan]

People had information to put this sick bastard in jail, they failed and he was free to mess with more kids lives....pathetic.

[ElectricEye]

Originally Posted by slightlyaraiderfan

People had information to put this sick bastard in jail, they failed and he was free to mess with more kids lives....pathetic.

That's basically what it boils down to. Any other stance on this, with all due respect, is ******* absurd.

[WCH]

Originally Posted by slightlyaraiderfan

People had information to put this sick bastard in jail, they failed and he was free to mess with more kids lives....pathetic.

Quoted for truth.

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by slightlyaraiderfan

People had information to put this sick bastard in jail, they failed and he was free to mess with more kids lives....pathetic.

Succint and to the point.

[JoeJoeBrown]

Take this fwiw. A post on the Victor's board (UM board).
JoePa's neighbor growing up.

I was born and grew up in State College--lived there until I left for college at U of M. Mom, dad and both sisters are PSU grads--I'm the black sheep. In about 1965, as I was leaving for Ann Arbor, JoePa moved into the house directly across the street. My younger sister babysat for his family and was a HS classmate of Tim Curley at State College High. Last Fall, she and her son--who was considering attending PSU--sat in Curley's suite for a home football game. Mike McCreary is also an alum of State High.

These are good people--who just did the wrong thing. It's very hard to understand how it all happened but it did.

You can say a lot about JoePa--nepotism, arrogant, stayed way too long, etc. but the fact is he coached at a very high level for a long, long time and did it without the slightest hint of a scandal. And I doubt there has ever been another football coach who gave $5M to his school's library.

There is a lot of this story yet to come out. There are a lot of other young boys involved. Some big squeezes in SC will be pulled in as someone gave a Cadillac Escalade to the mom of one of the boys who was molested to keep him quiet--the boy wrecked the car. The Second Mile, a charity with a ton of good works that Sandusky founded, is going to be pulled in and investigated.

In 1998, a year before he left, PSU knew that this was going on. I'm told his pay was cut in half to force him out--this to a guy who was probably more responsible than anyone else for PSU's tremendous defenses and success on the field--but he wouldn't quit.

So the next year they forced him out. Joe attended his retirement dinner and spoke for less than a minute--for a guy who had been his key assistant forever.

There is just no way JoePa didn't know. As did Graham Spanier, and a whole lot of others.

But Sandusky was allowed to keep an office at PSU and had keys to many of the sports facilities. Why? Absolutely unbelievable.

I think they just wanted him to go away and hopefully stop abusing kids. But that's not the way this stuff works.

BTW, JoePa is still at PSU as he raises a ton of money annually from the older alums--they love the guy. And PSU wants to be in their wills. Supposedly, Joe has made it very clear that he stops campaigning for $ the minute he is no longer the head coach. And he wants a secure position for his son JayPa and knows he is gone the minute Joe leaves.