New England Patriots Discussion

[FlyingElvis]

Good riddance to Albert Haynesworth. My only regret is that he ever had the chance to wear a Patriots uniform.

[2 Live Crew]

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

Good riddance to Albert Haynesworth. My only regret is that he ever had the chance to wear a Patriots uniform.

LOL, I guess I had good timing asking how he was doing yesterday. I thought it was a dumb move at the time for anyone to give up a draft pick for him

[BradysKnee]

So we cut Haynesworth. I get it from a financial point of view, but he was playing well I thought.

[cmarq83]

I think you guys are crazy saying we should trade Welker for a 1st. Welker IMO is one of the 4 untouchables on this team (Brady, Welker, Gronkowski, Wilfork). How is this team going to make its turnaround if they cut the one guy who shows up week in and week out? Look at lasts nights game, or the Buffalo game, or Superbowl XLII. He may not be the best WR in the game, but he's the best at what he does and within the confines of the Patriots offense that is extremely important. Plus, how does the WR situation get better without him? I'd take my chances with him and a guy like Braylon Edwards vs. spending more money on V-Jax and trying to get Edelman to replace Welker's production.

They need to sign Welker to a 5 year deal with releasable years at the end.

In terms of Haynesworth all I can say is another one bites the dust. Here I was thinking this defense would have depth this year, but half a season after training camp TBC, Sanders, Meriweather, Bodden, Dowling, Haynesworth, Wright, Warren, and Pryor are all done and the defense is starting to look extremely thin. Luckily, street free agents can probably play just as well as the guys were starting so there is always that.

[FlyingElvis]

^ I concur. At least with Welker we know we have a stud and teams have to worry about him and our TEs. Without him we have TEs getting neutralized and questions about his replacement.

Originally Posted by BradysKnee

So we cut Haynesworth. I get it from a financial point of view, but he was playing well I thought.

He wasn't really playing. I rarely saw him on the field and that is not because we have studs in front of him. The guy has zero heart and even less in the work ethic department.

IDK, somebody who knows where to look can find the % of snaps. I'd be surprised if he was north of 20%.

[ElectricEye]

The Haynesworth cut had nothing to do with what he offered the team or could do on the football field. We all saw flashes of him playing well; but that's it, only in flashes. Apparently Pepper Johnson was getting on him for not giving effort on the Brandon Jacob's play and we got that ugly scene. Funny, because BB was on the radio lying about the nature of it less than 24 hours before this came down. But yeah. The guy can't stay on the field and apparently it's because he just doesn't give a ****. Get him out. It's the right move. The only problem is that it was probably the wrong move to even bring him in, in hindsight. Especially to count on him being a crucial piece of this defense(not sure BB thinks we were, but we were. This defense isn't going to do anything without him). Just another black eye on Belichick the personnel guy. I really, really, REALLY think it's time to get someone in here who can put together a roster. Belichick might be the best chef in the league....but he's buying day old and off brand ingredients, to the point where even he can't rise above it.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by BradysKnee

I think some moves that we gotta make this offseason:

Cut Matt Light -- Draft late round depth (Saves $3,500,000)
Cut Chad Ochocinco -- (Saves approx 1 mil)
Cut Deion Branch -- (I think he might be a FA anyway)

Extend Wes Welker -- 3-4 year deal.
Do not resign guys like Light, Branch etc.

Make a play for one of these FAs:

WR: Reggie Wayne, Marques Colston, Steve Johnson, Vincent Jackson
DE: Cliff Avril,
Make a big play towards: Laron Landry, Michael Griffin, Tyvon Branch
LB: Stephen Tulloch woul be a nice fit.
Maybe sign a guy like Jeff Saturday, Matt Birk

Trade up for an impact defender like Courtney Upshaw.
Use the other 1st for a Safety or another pass rusher depending on FA.
Trade down the 2nd to get us some later round picks back.

I want no part of Reggie Wayne. To me he is the definition of a guy who just quit on his team when the season went downhill.

Colston would be the perfect guy for our offense. We don't need a deep threat necessarily, just a big guy outside who can beat single man coverage.

I'd love any of those safeties but I'd be surprised if they hit the market.

As for the two OCs, I'm not sure either is an upgrade over Koppen at this point and would prefer to get a young guy for the future.

[Nalej]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I want no part of Reggie Wayne. To me he is the definition of a guy who just quit on his team when the season went downhill.

Colston would be the perfect guy for our offense. We don't need a deep threat necessarily, just a big guy outside who can beat single man coverage.

I'd love any of those safeties but I'd be surprised if they hit the market.

As for the two OCs, I'm not sure either is an upgrade over Koppen at this point and would prefer to get a young guy for the future.

Word for word, my thoughts.

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

IDK, somebody who knows where to look can find the % of snaps. I'd be surprised if he was north of 20%.

Per ESPN Boston, he was on the field for 133 of 561 snaps on the season. That's 23.7% of the plays. I'm guessing that's 561 snaps he could have played in (not including the two games he missed)

[descendency]

Supposedly the last words Bill Belichick said to Albert Haynesworth was "Do you know who Wally Pipp was?"

/badjoke

[Matthew Jones]

The Patriots have a lengthy list of upcoming free agents. Looks like there could be some major turnover at the end of the season. I've bolded the players I'd try to re-sign.

QB Brian Hoyer

RB Kevin Faulk

RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis

WR Deion Branch

WR Matthew Slater

WR Wes Welker

C Dan Connolly

C Dan Koppen

C Ryan Wendell

DT Kyle Love

DE Mark Anderson

DE Andre Carter

DE Shaun Ellis

LB Gary Guyton

LB Rob Ninkovich

On top of those guys, there are a few players who might be cut or retire:

WR Chad Ochocinco

OT Matt Light

DT Mike Wright

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by RavenOfProphecy

The Patriots have a lengthy list of upcoming free agents. Looks like there could be some major turnover at the end of the season. I've bolded the players I'd try to re-sign.

QB Brian Hoyer

RB Kevin Faulk

RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis

WR Deion Branch

WR Matthew Slater

WR Wes Welker

C Dan Connolly

C Dan Koppen

C Ryan Wendell

DT Kyle Love

DE Mark Anderson

DE Andre Carter

DE Shaun Ellis

LB Gary Guyton

LB Rob Ninkovich

On top of those guys, there are a few players who might be cut or retire:

WR Chad Ochocinco

OT Matt Light

DT Mike Wright

I would definitely try to resign Hoyer. What he has shown in preseason and other action means that some team would give up a pick for him. Even if it is only a mid rounder it would still be worth doing IMO.

[Razor]

I think Hoyer is a RFA, right? So if we tender him at, let's say, a second rounder I'll be happy with that. If Schaub can warrant to seconds, Hoyer should warrant at least a third.

[Blackluck]

So, the Jets. Does it matter, or is the season being written off?

I'm a horrible football prognosticator, so I'm not going to predict the outcome ... but, if the Pats win, they probably go on to win the division. I still can't see how they overcome the dearth of talent in the secondary in the playoffs, unless they get lucky and play in bad weather. Even if by some miracle they make a run, any of the NFC contenders will shred this team in the Superbowl (I consider GB, NO, Atlanta, SF as the NFC SB caliber teams. For the AFC, Steelers, Ravens, Texans. Not sold on the Jets, and they're one injury away (Mangold) from being ... let's say, not good.)

If we lose, it's a three team race for the two* wild card berths: Pats, Bills, and Bengals. I see the Bills fading. The Bengals have four games against the Steelers and Ravens. I have no idea if the Bengals are legit yet.

Regardless of how much I don't want to be a 'fair weather' fan, this Pats team to me feels like it simply does not have enough talent to get it done. Now, the Texans turned around their defense in a hurry as last year they were woeful. One would think we can do the same, although history does give caution if we draft as we have been. However, BB has shown in the past he's willing to gamble and make the necessary changes (e.g. Moss, Welker trades). I think we still have a shot at another SB run in the next four-five years. I just don't think it will be this year

*This should be one, as the Steelers will get the other.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by Blackluck

So, the Jets. Does it matter, or is the season being written off?

I'm a horrible football prognosticator, so I'm not going to predict the outcome ... but, if the Pats win, they probably go on to win the division. I still can't see how they overcome the dearth of talent in the secondary in the playoffs, unless they get lucky and play in bad weather. Even if by some miracle they make a run, any of the NFC contenders will shred this team in the Superbowl (I consider GB, NO, Atlanta, SF as the NFC SB caliber teams. For the AFC, Steelers, Ravens, Texans. Not sold on the Jets, and they're one injury away (Mangold) from being ... let's say, not good.)

If we lose, it's a three team race for the two wild card berths: Pats, Bills, and Bengals. I see the Bills fading. The Bengals have four games against the Steelers and Ravens. I have no idea if the Bengals are legit yet.

Regardless of how much I don't want to be a 'fair weather' fan, this Pats team to me feels like it simply does not have enough talent to get it done. Now, the Texans turned around their defense in a hurry as last year they were woeful. One would think we can do the same, although history does give caution if we draft as we have been. However, BB has shown in the past he's willing to gamble and make the necessary changes (e.g. Moss, Welker trades). I think we still have a shot at another SB run in the next four-five years. I just don't think it will be this year

Look I know the last two weeks have been bad but I really don't see why all the hate is coming all of a sudden.

In the AFC as you mentioned we have

Baltimore-People seem to be forgetting that this year Joe Flacco has statistically been one of the worst QBs in the NFL. Cam Cameron is also a horrible play caller. Plus the Ravens secondary isn't as good as people think after Ed Reed.

Pittsburgh-Sure they handled us a few weeks ago but we have a good record against them. Likewise their secondary after Polamalu isn't great and their running game is non existent.

Houston-Never been to the playoffs before, how will they handle the pressure?

NYJ-We'll know more after Sunday but the same issue with Flacco in Baltimore applies with Sanchez in NYJ. Do they have a good enough offense to stop the Pats. Remember, pretty much the same defense last year gave up 45 points in NE.

Oakland/KC/SD-Not worried in the slightest about any of these teams.

[Nalej]

The hate was there before hand though. Our D sucks. Plain and simple.
I'll keep routing for my team but honestly, I see another one and done when he get into the playoffs.

[FlyingElvis]

Yeah, hate is probably a strong word for it. I know this team can compete with any team in the AFC. But the realist in me can't ignore that our offense can sputter on its own and can be stopped by the right teams / pressure / schemes and our D is just terrible. That's a lethal combination - especially in January.

Can we get hot and make a run? Absolutely. But I won't ignore the fact that our team has all the ingredients required in the recipe for disaster.

[Blackluck]

I didn't mean to sound like a hater :( Mostly just trying to remain objective, and maybe ratchet back my own expectations.

To slant things in a different direction here's an excellent read: Bill (still) knows defense

[descendency]

I like one of the last lines of that piece, "The football just doesn't always bounce his way." I get that feeling when watching the games on Tuesday or Wednesday. A couple of key plays just seem to go against NE every game.

I don't care what the numbers say, the Patriots D is much improved over the last few weeks. If the offense was playing where it needed to be, this would be a Super Bowl caliber team (well, Green Bay is in another world right now...).

[Blackluck]

With all the focus on the defense (my own included) it's sometimes easy to forget that turnovers have killed us, yet the games have remained close.

I agree on Green Bay. I think that team has a decent shot at 19-0, if that is they don't get ahead of themselves. Rodgers is other worldly good.

[ElectricEye]

I've gone into extensive detail about what I think we're doing wrong personnel wise both in this thread and in other venues....so I won't do it here. But I will say this; I really don't think this team has it. Not as it's presently constituted anyway. Can things change? Maybe. You would like to see the team respond to the adversity and go on a run....but you can't project or predict those kinds of things with any kind of authority or accuracy.

I'm not willing to blame it on luck or "a few key plays going the wrong way" either. Good teams make their own luck and have those plays go their way. Until we're able to get better players, I see more losses like the past two.

[FlyingElvis]

Brady playing like **** has a lot to do with the turnover differential. But unlucky bounces are a far cry from the true issue of our D. Glaring lack of talent has a tendency to ensure bounces don't go your way.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by descendency

I like one of the last lines of that piece, "The football just doesn't always bounce his way." I get that feeling when watching the games on Tuesday or Wednesday. A couple of key plays just seem to go against NE every game.

I don't care what the numbers say, the Patriots D is much improved over the last few weeks. If the offense was playing where it needed to be, this would be a Super Bowl caliber team (well, Green Bay is in another world right now...).

Eh...Green Bay have a pretty atrocious defense at the minute which is being overlooked by most people.

My point in regards to the teams left and getting on a run is, it is possible for this to happen. Odds are against it but it is possible. Even if the defense gets slightly better we have the horses on offense to swing things in our favour.

[Jvig43]

This week is a biggie for us. I don't think anyone here was rooting against our team, but it's frustrating seeing issues weve all been bitching about for a couple years now persisting because we refuse to address them.

[ElectricEye]

...I'm not sure we win tonight. We need to, but I think we all thought we would split the series with the Jets again. Talk all you want about how we'll have to play well with our backs against the wall, but the Jets know what this. They can effectively put us out(or damage us badly, at least) with a win and they're playing really well right now anyway. This might as well be a playoff game.

[Razor]

I actually had a dream in which we won the game tonight 32-3. Now, I don't actually think that we'll win with that score, but now I feel a little better about this game. J-E-T-S! Suck! Suck! Suck!