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Old 11-28-2011, 02:18 AM    (permalink
whatadai
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Default Elite/Game Changing 2012 Prospects

Are there any guys like that are eligible and will likely enter the 2012 draft?

Yes, I know Luck is one so you don't need to mention him here. I'm also not talking about guys who have high floors and low ceilings. More just in terms of ridiculously high ceilings, guys that could take the league by storm in the first year or take 3-4 years to turn into an amazingly dominant player.

And what's the chance of the guy having an Aaron Curry career? I remember seeing Aaron Curry get a lot of "elite" hype and so far he's been mediocre with a few flashes, not dominant like advertised. Yes, I know he's still very young and he's shown more flashes in Oakland and could actually become as advertised.

Just doesn't seem to me like there's many "elite" prospects in this draft...maybe just Luck and Kalil?
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:43 AM    (permalink
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RBs - Trent Richardson/David Wilson/Lamar Miller. There are several really good RB prospects.

Teo and Keuchly are elite ILB prospects IMO, even if Keuchly has less than ideal measurables. His sixth sense instincts make up for an alleged lack of pure footspeed and quickness.

There are elite prospects at corner and safety, but another poster will have to make that list.

Are there elite interior Dlineman and edge rushers?? There are some guys with elite tools but who aren't really elite prospects IMO.

Lots of good WR prospects but there's no AJ Green or Julio Jones.

Elite sometimes means 'hyped'. Patrick Peterson was an elite prospect with rare tools for the position, but there will cover corners who come out of this draft who are flat out better playing man up on WRs than a guy like PP.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:36 AM    (permalink
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Right now, I'd would say there are 3 'elite' prospects in this draft in Luck, Kalil and Richardson. Claiborne would be the only other guy with a chance at cracking that list. Of course this is subject to change. If anything I would probably narrow that list down.
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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There are elite prospects at corner and safety, but another poster will have to make that list.
mmmm I don't know about that, not a great safety class this year.

Elite guys in this draft would probably be:

Luck and Richardson are the only guys that could probably come in "as is" and be good/starters in the league and thats how I like to judge my elite players.

Kalil will need to add weight and such but he is also on that fringe.
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Old 11-28-2011, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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Luck, Richardson, Mo Claiborne, Blackmon, DeCastro, and Kuechly right now if you ask me.
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Old 11-28-2011, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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If Richardson is an elite prospect than Kalil is an elite prospect. Kalil is a better player than Richardson and will continue to be in the NFL as well.
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Michael Floyd could easily be a game changer and be that No.1 WR who could go onto have a Dwayne Bowe esque breakout season.
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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If Richardson is an elite prospect than Kalil is an elite prospect. Kalil is a better player than Richardson and will continue to be in the NFL as well.
I'm not disagreeing with you... but I find it hard to really compare them as players at different positions. I'm assuming your saying Kalil is a better OT prospect than Richardson is as a RB prospect, correct me if I'm wrong.

I think that Richardson will step in day one to a team and be an impact guy.

I was merely referring to that fact that Kalil has some things to do before he is ready to do so, he needs to put on weight (IMO) etc.

Kalil will undoubtedly be a huge upgrade for whoever gets him.

The fact is neither of them are Jake Long/Joe Thomas or AP/DMC type prospects.

The only truly Elite prospect in this draft is Luck
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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I would say: Luck, Kalil, Barkley, Richardson, and Claiborne. DeCastro almost makes it for me, but I can't quite put him on that list due to the lack of value of his position.
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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I don't know, I just cant bring myself to place that "Elite" tag on 4-5 guys in a single draft...
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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I'm very strict with my elite tag. To me the only guys I'll label elite are guys who I would be ok with making a Julio Jones/Eli Manning type trade for. Somebody that I am confident will be amongst the top 5 players at their position within 3 years. I can only give Luck that tag at the moment, and I'll have to wait to see how Richardson tests at the combine and performs in the bowl game before I'm willing to give him that tag.

In the past 5 or so years I've only considered Calvin Johnson, Suh, Berry, Miller, Chris Long, Michael Crabtree (don't ask), and Joe Thomas as truly elite prospects.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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The fact is neither of them are Jake Long/Joe Thomas or AP/DMC type prospects.
They don't have to be elite in the NFL in their first year. It could take some time to get to a Jake Long/Joe Thomas level. What I'm asking is...is there that possibility for that player to even get to that level in 2-3 years in the league?
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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I'm very strict with my elite tag. To me the only guys I'll label elite are guys who I would be ok with making a Julio Jones/Eli Manning type trade for. Somebody that I am confident will be amongst the top 5 players at their position within 3 years. I can only give Luck that tag at the moment, and I'll have to wait to see how Richardson tests at the combine and performs in the bowl game before I'm willing to give him that tag.
That's how I define my elite tag too. What I'm asking is instead of looking at how they probably will produce in their rookie year, are there any players that could be top 5 or near top 5 at their position by the end of their 3rd year?
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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That's how I define my elite tag too. What I'm asking is instead of looking at how they probably will produce in their rookie year, are there any players that could be top 5 or near top 5 at their position by the end of their 3rd year?
Kalil would be the one I'd bank on for that.
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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I still stand strong in my stance that Trent Richardson is OVERRATED! Its easy to run when the first person that ever touches you is the 2nd and sometimes 3rd level with the best OL in college football (two first round picks at the very least, Warmack is a high second and Valachos is a 2nd to 4th rounder). You see when the OL isn't blowing guys off the ball and establishing a new line of scrimmage 3-5 yards past the original line, he's had bad games, especially vs. LSU and Tennessee. He should play each one of his O lineman a share of his draft stock. He'll be no better than Willis McGahee in the NFL, book it...
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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They don't have to be elite in the NFL in their first year. It could take some time to get to a Jake Long/Joe Thomas level. What I'm asking is...is there that possibility for that player to even get to that level in 2-3 years in the league?
Right but that could be any number of prospects in any round for any # of reasons, there is a chance a UDFA could be top 5 at their position in three years, doesn't make them and elite prospect coming out
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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You guys are tossing the term "elite" around like it's nothing. Kalil isn't even a Jake Long/Joe Thomas level prospect, he's the closest that's come along since but he's not.

This guy is looking for basically a Cam Newton type, not an "elite prospect" but a prospect with "elite" potential at the next level. That proved to be Cam Newton last year, forget top-5 at his position by the end of his 3rd year because he'll be there at the start of his 2nd.

This year, other than Luck, Richardson has the highest potential to eventually become a dominant, every-down player. There should be a team or two in that 6-10 range that can use a lead back and they shouldn't hesitate.

Outside of that, we'll see where Morris Claiborne ends up at the end of the process, but if anything he'll be right on the outside looking in. I don't think AJ Green was considered "elite" by most (or "a Calvin Johnson type-prospect at WR" as most would put it), and he's probably got a higher ceiling than most of the guys in this draft.

In grading prospects, there's still a slight difference between a 5-star guy and one that is "elite".
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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Claiborne and Luck for me are it.
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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Whats your Definition of an Elite Prospect? Mines would be a Play that is going to be a True Super Star in the NFL a can't miss prospect and a guy that has a Zero Bust Potential. I think Andrew Luck and Trent Richardson fits that Definition.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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When I say elite I'm talking about players I think will be elite NFL players. If you think there are only two elite players in this class, fine. If you think there are 10 thats OK too. Instead of saying why there should only be one or two players in this class and defining elite, actually watch the players play and determine what isn't elite about the top level prospects in this draft.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
When I say elite I'm talking about players I think will be elite NFL players. If you think there are only two elite players in this class, fine. If you think there are 10 thats OK too. Instead of saying why there should only be one or two players in this class and defining elite, actually watch the players play and determine what isn't elite about the top level prospects in this draft.
I think Blackmon, Kalil, Claiborne will all be Really good Pro Bowl players but I just don't think if I could say that will be Elite Players right now. Blackmon's Size and College Offense scares me a bit but I think all three I just said will be Elite Prospects but I am just not 100% with that right now.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:27 AM    (permalink
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When it comes to game changers, I think of guys you have to gameplan around. For the purposes of this thread, I'm not including quarterbacks.
Blackmon, Richardson, Quinton Coples, Vinny Curry, Dre Kirkpatrick, Michael Floyd, Morris Claiborne and maybe LaMichael James are all in there. I'm not really sure how many of those guys should be considered elite though. I think they are the best in this draft.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:58 AM    (permalink
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Trent Richardson for sure. Maybe Matt Barkley.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:59 AM    (permalink
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What does "game changing" really mean? I'm not sure some positions shouldn't be disqualified from the discussion. Take RBs for example. Many of the top RBs play for bad teams. The top 2 rushers in the league right now play for teams that are a combined 7-15.
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:03 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
What does "game changing" really mean? I'm not sure some positions shouldn't be disqualified from the discussion. Take RBs for example. Many of the top RBs play for bad teams. The top 2 rushers in the league right now play for teams that are a combined 7-15.
You could play this game with any position but QB.
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