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View Poll Results: Who deserves to play LSU in the BS BCS Title game?
Alabama, rematch, they're probably the best team 21 31.82%
Oklahoma State has earned it 29 43.94%
Blow up the whole BcS system and install a legit playoff like all other football has! 16 24.24%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-05-2011, 11:08 AM    (permalink
jrdrylie
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Originally Posted by JHL6719 View Post
When Baylor, Oklahoma St., and Kansas St. are carrying the conference, the Big-12 is WEAK as WATER.

Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas A&M are the 3 bellcows and are all pitiful.

Iowa St.'s 6 wins are against Northern Iowa, Iowa, Texas Tech, Kansas, UCONN, and Oklahoma St.

The SEC is still the strongest conference even when the rest of the conference is slightly down. Hell, 3 of the top 6 teams in the country are in the SAME DIVISION within the SEC.

They've beaten the Pac-10 champ, Big-East Champ, and ACC champ all in blowouts.

Find a clue man, seriously.
I don't care if their bell cows are sucking. Once again, who was good in previous years has no bearing on this season. FSU used to be the bell cow in the ACC, they suck now. UCLA used to be great. They suck now. It doesn't mean the conference is bad. It just means times have changed.

But like I said. If the SEC dominates in the bowl season, I will gladly come in here and bow at the feet of the almighty SEC.
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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FACT: The SEC proposed a +1 playoff in 2008.

FACT: The Big-12 wanted no part of it.



I've yet to hear a damn thing that makes Oklahoma St. a superior team to Alabama.

Time is running out...
Fair, but that's not really the question at hand, thus irrelevant. The question is why does Alabama deserve to go the NC game more than OSU? You haven't provided any facts other than "they are obviously one of the two best teams." Others have provided facts that support their claims.
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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Fair, but that's not really the question at hand, thus irrelevant. The question is why does Alabama deserve to go the NC game more than OSU? You haven't provided any facts other than "they are obviously one of the two best teams." Others have provided facts that support their claims.

I provided plenty of facts. I've compared Bama's best win vs. Okie Light's best win. Bama's was better. I've compared Bama's loss to LSU to Okie Light's loss to Iowa St. They're not comparable at all.

I've compared their OOC schedules. Bama's is better, with a better point differential.

I don't buy the argument that Okie Light's schedule was stronger than Bama's. Alabama was a missed field goal away from beating the #1 team in the country. They outplayed the #1 team in the country, as close as it was.

Arkansas scored 42 points on Texas A&M. Oklahoma St. scored 30 on Texas A&M. Bama blew out Arkansas.

I mean there's tons of "facts" out there.... but if you're not interested in them then you're just not interested. If you don't buy that Alabama is one of the two best teams in the country, then you just don't buy it.

But it ain't because of lack of facts.


I've yet to see a fact that supports Oklahoma St. as one of the two best teams in the country.

The burden of proof isn't on me anyway, Bama is in the title game because of the system that everyone else wanted to play by, including the Big-12...
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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I like how people are saying "I'll admit the SEC is the best conference when X happens" as if that is in doubt, hahha.
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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The "outplayed the best team in the country" is arguable. Alabama outplayed LSU in the first half, LSU outplayed Alabama in the 2nd half and overtime. Go back and look at the drive charts.

The major argument here is that Bama had their shot at LSU at Bryant-Denny and didn't get it done. Period. Why not have LSU face a team they have never played before instead of a rematch with a team that has already lost to LSU?

Here's the resume for both Oklahoma State and Alabama with the BCS rankings next to each team (Georgia Southern isn't listed since they're not an FBS school)

Oklahoma State
Beat #8 Kansas State
Beat #12 Baylor
Beat #15 Oklahoma
Beat #24 Texas
Beat #26 Missouri
Beat #29 Texas A&M
Lost to #31 Iowa State
Beat #40 Tulsa
Beat #45 Texas Tech
Beat #63 UL-Lafayette
Beat #71 Arizona
Beat #76 Kansas
Average is 37

Alabama
Lost #1 LSU
Beat #6 Arkansas
Beat #22 Penn State
Beat #25 Auburn
Beat #42 Mississippi State
Beat #43 Florida
Beat #48 Vanderbilt
Beat #56 Tennessee
Beat #92 North Texas
Beat #95 Ole Miss
Beat #96 Kent State
Average is 48
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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The "outplayed the best team in the country" is arguable. Alabama outplayed LSU in the first half, LSU outplayed Alabama in the 2nd half and overtime. Go back and look at the drive charts.

The major argument here is that Bama had their shot at LSU at Bryant-Denny and didn't get it done. Period. Why not have LSU face a team they have never played before instead of a rematch with a team that has already lost to LSU?

I was there, I don't need to look at the drive charts. But the game turned on a controversial play that resulted in an INT for LSU, and a series of missed field goals. I would agree that LSU outplayed Bama in the 2nd half and in OT. Hell, our offense went backwards in OT when we had 3 points on the board for all intents and purposes.

The answer to your question is simple. The national championship game isn't about having LSU play somebody they haven't played yet.... 110 teams qualify for that. It's about the two best teams playing for a national championship, and Oklahoma St. isn't one of the two best teams in the country.

That's as clear and straight to the point as I can possibly put it.


The bottom line is that both Alabama and Oklahoma St. both lost the right to complain if they ended up being left out when they lost. They had to rely on the system to sort it out, personally I believe it got it right... again.

That's not homer talk either, that's real talk.
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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diabsoule, don't bother with those BCS rankings. I have been hammering them for the last 24 hours with no results.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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I hope LSU kills Alabama and its a blowout.
And I hate this whole "Big 12 doesn't play defense".
Offenses in the Big 12 are outstanding, and they rely on rhythm and timing. You take a month off, and yeah they are going to be off.
I mean heck wasn't Florida averaging a **** ton of points in 2008? Oklahoma's "No Defense" held Florida in check.

I think Oklahoma State would be a good matchup with LSU. I'd like to see that more than a rematch of Alabama and LSU.


Oklahoma actually used to play defense when Bob Stoops first got there, and had Mike as his coordinator. Defense was Oklahoma's identity, and he won national titles because of it.

Oklahoma started to make losing in BCS games a habit when Mike left, and Bob started to change the identity of his team into a finesse offense.

The Sooners actually still played decent defense the year they played Florida for the national title. They were 19th in scoring D... 17th in rushing D....60th in passing D... and 26th in total D... and it's why they made it to the national championship game.



1993: Alabama - 34
Miami - 13 (Had the Heisman Trophy winner at QB)


2003: LSU - 21
Oklahoma - 14 (Had the Heisman Trophy winner at QB)



2006: Alabama - 13
Texas Tech - 10


2006: Florida - 41
Ohio St. - 14 (Heisman Trophy winner at QB)


2007: LSU - 38
Ohio St. - 24


2008: Florida - 24
Oklahoma - 14 (Had a Heisman Trophy winner at QB)


2009: Alabama - 37
Texas - 21


2010: Auburn - 22
Oregon - 19




Every single one of these teams that lost felt their offenses were "special".
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Uhhh when did OSU play Clemson lol
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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The "outplayed the best team in the country" is arguable. Alabama outplayed LSU in the first half, LSU outplayed Alabama in the 2nd half and overtime. Go back and look at the drive charts.

The major argument here is that Bama had their shot at LSU at Bryant-Denny and didn't get it done. Period. Why not have LSU face a team they have never played before instead of a rematch with a team that has already lost to LSU?

Here's the resume for both Oklahoma State and Alabama with the BCS rankings next to each team (Georgia Southern isn't listed since they're not an FBS school)

Oklahoma State
Beat #8 Kansas State
Beat #12 Baylor
Beat #15 Clemson
Beat #24 Texas
Beat #26 Missouri
Beat #29 Texas A&M
Lost to #31 Iowa State
Beat #40 Tulsa
Beat #45 Texas Tech
Beat #63 UL-Lafayette
Beat #71 Arizona
Beat #76 Kansas
Average is 37

Alabama
Lost #1 LSU
Beat #6 Arkansas
Beat #22 Penn State
Beat #25 Auburn
Beat #42 Mississippi State
Beat #43 Florida
Beat #48 Vanderbilt
Beat #56 Tennessee
Beat #92 North Texas
Beat #95 Ole Miss
Beat #96 Kent State
Average is 48

Okie Light didn't play Clemson.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Uhhh when did OSU play Clemson lol
I accidentally wrote Clemson instead of Oklahoma. That's been fixed.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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I was there, I don't need to look at the drive charts. But the game turned on a controversial play that resulted in an INT for LSU, and a series of missed field goals. I would agree that LSU outplayed Bama in the 2nd half and in OT. Hell, our offense went backwards in OT when we had 3 points on the board for all intents and purposes.

The answer to your question is simple. The national championship game isn't about having LSU play somebody they haven't played yet.... 110 teams qualify for that. It's about the two best teams playing for a national championship, and Oklahoma St. isn't one of the two best teams in the country.

That's as clear and straight to the point as I can possibly put it.


The bottom line is that both Alabama and Oklahoma St. both lost the right to complain if they ended up being left out when they lost. They had to rely on the system to sort it out, personally I believe it got it right... again.

That's not homer talk either, that's real talk.
It would have been a controversial call from an Alabama's fan viewpoint but it was clear that Reid intercepted the ball. The replay showed it.

Of course you're saying that the extremely flawed BCS got it right because you're an Alabama fan.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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John Chavis started playing a soft Cover-2 on defense due to being up 3 scores. They were letting WV complete all those underneath throws.

Hell, it took throwing it 65 times to get those yards.

What's going to happen when you throw it time and time again against LSU's defense is exactly what you saw with Oregon and WV... turnovers.

You will not beat LSU throwing it 40+ times. You're playing right into exactly what they want you to do. It's no coincidence that both those games were blowouts.

You've got to be balanced in order to beat LSU or Bama. The problem is that the Big-12/WVU/etc... can't match up at the line of scrimmage in order to be balanced against that caliber of defense.

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that Okie Light can't score 30 points on LSU... literally.
They let WVU score 3 tds and get within 6? The kick return was part of the plan?

Turnovers and ST made that a blow out. Obviously LSU are a much better team but it doesn't take away from WVU having a very effective offense. Its not like those points were scored in garbage time.

Alabama is a 1.5 point dog. If you swapped out their offense with OSU or WVU they wouldn't be.

Offenses don't have to be balanced to be effective. In fact to beat a team with much more talent, it is often optimal to have an unbalanced O and really specialize in passing or running.

SEC teams win because they have more talent on Dline, no more, no less. Its not because of balanced offenses. The long layoff really hurts offensive teams also.

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Old 12-05-2011, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Who they played? Come on. look at the quality of play from both Oklahoma State and Alabama. No way in hell they are similar.

Bama would smash Oklahoma State in the mouth. Oklahoma State would not have ran through the SEC like they did in the Big 12. Gurantee they would have had atleast 2 losses if they played in that conference.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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It would have been a controversial call from an Alabama's fan viewpoint but it was clear that Reid intercepted the ball. The replay showed it.

Of course you're saying that the extremely flawed BCS got it right because you're an Alabama fan.

If Alabama had lost to Vanderbilt or Florida, a 6-6 team, a 27 point underdog... I wouldn't feel like the BCS got it right.

I just don't see how Alabama isn't one of the two best teams in the country. I know they are.

If I didn't think they were, I'd say it.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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They let WVU score 3 tds and get within 6? The kick return was part of the plan?

Turnovers and ST made that a blow out. Obviously LSU are a much better team but it doesn't take away from WVU having a very effective offense. Its not like those points were scored in garbage time.

Alabama is a 1.5 point dog. If you swapped out their offense with OSU or WVU they wouldn't be.

Offenses don't have to be balanced to be effective. In fact to beat a team with much more talent, it is often optimal to have an unbalanced O and really specialize in passing or running.

SEC teams win because they have more talent on Dline, no more, no less. Its not because of balanced offenses.

Wrong. Balanced offenses are what seperates the elite SEC teams from the good SEC teams. They all have talented defensive lines, but it's the ability to pound the rock between the tackles with stud running backs that seperates them. You can't pick up those ugly, nasty, hard nosed 3-4 yard runs that you absolutely must do in the SEC in order to win with Chris Rainey's, Jeff Demps, and Jeff Scott.... no matter how talented your defensive line is.


Alabama is a 1.5 dog because they have the best defense in the country, and one of the best college football has seen in decades.

If you swap out Bama's defense for Oklahoma St.'s or WVU's, they're a 10+ point dog.... just like Vegas said Oklahoma St. would've been against LSU or Bama.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Wrong. Balanced offenses are what seperates the elite SEC teams from the good SEC teams. They all have talented defensive lines, but it's the ability to pound the rock between the tackles with stud running backs that seperates them. You can't pick up those ugly, nasty, hard nosed 3-4 yard runs that you absolutely must do in the SEC in order to win with Chris Rainey's, Jeff Demps, and Jeff Scott.... no matter how talented your defensive line is.


Alabama is a 1.5 dog because they have the best defense in the country, and one of the best college football has seen in decades.

If you swap out Bama's defense for Oklahoma St.'s or WVU's, they're a 10+ point dog.... just like Vegas said Oklahoma St. would've been against LSU or Bama.
If u give alabama osu's D, they are 30 pt dogs. their offense is bad.

The idea that running between the tackles for hard nosed yards is important is so behind the times that even the NFL is past that bs. Let's look at a hypothetical situation.

Do you think Alabama/LSU would be better or worse with Oregon's offense this year?

btw..i'm not saying that balanced offenses are bad..but it isn't the thing that makes an offense good.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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If u give alabama osu's D, they are 30 pt dogs. their offense is bad.

The idea that running between the tackles for hard nosed yards is important is so behind the times that even the NFL is past that bs. Let's look at a hypothetical situation.

Do you think Alabama/LSU would be better or worse with Oregon's offense this year?

How the hell do you think LSU and Alabama are winning? Do you even watch college football?

They're doing it by playing smothering defense and a grinding ground game, and physically whipping teams on both sides of the ball until they've had enough. Mix in with a little play action passing for big plays here and there.

If you can't play dominant defense, and run the ball between the tackles and grind it out in the SEC, you're not going to compete for anything other than a trip to .com bowl somewhere.

You've bought into a myth my friend.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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How the hell do you think LSU and Alabama are winning? Do you even watch college football?

They're doing it by playing smothering defense and a grinding ground game, and physically whipping teams on both sides of the ball until they've had enough. Mix in with a little play action passing for big plays here and there.

If you can't play dominant defense, and run the ball between the tackles and grind it out in the SEC, you're not going to compete for anything other than a trip to .com bowl somewhere.

You've bought into a myth my friend.
I believe they have the edge on D and specifically Dline. You didn't answer the question.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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Anybody think there is a way to improve the voting? The computers are supposed to be unbiased, but the people in charge of the computer polls refuse to disclose their formulas. And last year, they found a mistake in the math of the only computer ranking system that is public.

The coaches poll would seem like it would be accurate. I mean these guys should be knowledgeable about good football. But coaches don't have time to watch these games. Their entire Saturday is spent preparing the team, coaching the game, addressing the media, and then going to sleep. Half of them just get some graduate assistant or secretary to fill the thing out.

The Harris Poll is obviously idiotic. One voter had Oklahoma State 6th and Houston, a team with no good wins and a blowout loss on their home turf on the last game of the season, 5th. We can't allow jackasses like this determine who plays for a championship.

The AP is best because it is just a bunch of people paid to watch football. They know their stuff and have the most time available to dedicate to actually watching the game. But unfortunately they decided not to take part in the BCS anymore.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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I believe they have the edge on D and specifically Dline. You didn't answer the question.

They'd be worse. You can't play with the best team in the country (LSU) with Oregon's offense and Oregon's defense.

You can't play with LSU with WVU's offense and WVU's defense.

You can't play with LSU with Okie Light's offense and Okie Light's 107th ranked defense.

However, Bama can play with LSU with Bama's defense and Bama's offense.


I'll take the dominant defense over the high flying finesse offense every. single. time.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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They'd be worse. You can't play with the best team in the country (LSU) with Oregon's offense and Oregon's defense.

You can't play with LSU with WVU's offense and WVU's defense.

You can't play with LSU with Okie Light's offense and Okie Light's 107th ranked defense.

However, Bama can play with LSU with Bama's defense and Bama's offense.


I'll take the dominant defense over the high flying finesse offense every. single. time.

I think you misunderstand the question. Would u rather have Oregon's offense with Bama/ LSU's defense? Not swapping the whole team.

This is a hypothetical question.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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Anybody think there is a way to improve the voting? The computers are supposed to be unbiased, but the people in charge of the computer polls refuse to disclose their formulas. And last year, they found a mistake in the math of the only computer ranking system that is public.

The coaches poll would seem like it would be accurate. I mean these guys should be knowledgeable about good football. But coaches don't have time to watch these games. Their entire Saturday is spent preparing the team, coaching the game, addressing the media, and then going to sleep. Half of them just get some graduate assistant or secretary to fill the thing out.

The Harris Poll is obviously idiotic. One voter had Oklahoma State 6th and Houston, a team with no good wins and a blowout loss on their home turf on the last game of the season, 5th. We can't allow jackasses like this determine who plays for a championship.

The AP is best because it is just a bunch of people paid to watch football. They know their stuff and have the most time available to dedicate to actually watching the game. But unfortunately they decided not to take part in the BCS anymore.

There is no perfect system, if there was they'd already have it in place.

We've already had the AP poll decide and be a factor in who's playing for a championship... people weren't happy with that either.

They wanted to eliminate some of the bias involved with the human element... and face it, you're going to have bias involved with the human element no matter if it's the AP poll, coaches poll, Harris poll, or any other poll where humans are voting.

The computers were put in place to take out some the human element, and factor in more raw data (SOS, etc.). I thought Rece Davis made a great point last night when he talked about how they're looking to fix things retroactively within the BCS.

You have a unique set of circumstances this year where the two best teams in the country just happen to be in the same division within the same conference.

If you're not buying LSU and Alabama as the two best teams in the country this year, I have no idea how they're ever going to come up with something that helps you determine who the two best teams are in the future.

This year is as clear cut as it's been as to who the two best teams are.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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I think you misunderstand the question. Would u rather have Oregon's offense with Bama/ LSU's defense? Not swapping the whole team.

This is a hypothetical question.

No, I've watched Bama win too many national championships with a power running game and a game manager at quarterback. I've watched them do it against the best offenses college football had to offer.

The last two national championships Bama has won (2009 and 1992) the quarterback didn't pass for over 50 yards in either. Dominant defense and dominant running game stole the show, and brought home the hardware.
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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More complaining about polls. How the hell do 51 Harris voters out of 115 and 36 coaches out of 59 vote Virginia Tech over Clemson. Do they not know that Clemson beat them twice by a combined 61-13? Compare that to the AP where only 10 of the 60 voters put Virgina Tech over Clemson.

We can argue about who the number two team is. We can argue about whether or not Oklahoma State could play with LSU. But you can't argue about if Clemson or Virgina Tech is better. If we learned just one thing this season, it is that Clemson is better than Virginia Tech. There is absolutely no justification to vote Virginia Tech over Clemson.
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