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Old 12-11-2011, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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DeCastro is the sexiest of sexy picks for the Titans.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Scott: Do you just hate the Seahawks or something? You always always seem to give us the "Well, the good players at X position are gone, but the Seahawks have a need and a lot of people think player Y could go in the first, so the Seahawks take him." I mean, do just have that low of an opinion of our front office, or do you just not care what happens in the Pacific NW and want to save the more exciting picks in the mock for teams you like better?
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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Because this is the Gabbert thread, doesn't anybody else remember that the consensus on him when he declared last year was "he should have gone back to school for another year"?

Why can't we just count this as a sort of "redshirt year" and just wait to see if he actually can play? It's not like this "no offseason" thing is really all that easy on the rookie signal callers.
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I have RGIII ahead of Barkley personally, but I'd take either in the top 10 if I needed a QB. Both are better prospects coming out than Gabbert was (as is Landry Jones)

I'm curious why you think RGIII would need an abnormal amount of development, however. He has a ton of experience in college and is a very accurate passer. People are mistaken if they think he just gets by on freaky athletic ability.
I think he has all of the tools, I never said he needed an abnormal amount of development but there will inevitably be growing pains with the switch. Again, this is nothing against him.

I just happen to think any young QB would struggle with that team so why not improve the team before throwing another QB to the wolves? It's not like they have a shot at Luck and will be missing out on an insane opportunity if they went anther direction
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Scott: Do you just hate the Seahawks or something? You always always seem to give us the "Well, the good players at X position are gone, but the Seahawks have a need and a lot of people think player Y could go in the first, so the Seahawks take him." I mean, do just have that low of an opinion of our front office, or do you just not care what happens in the Pacific NW and want to save the more exciting picks in the mock for teams you like better?
I have a hard time respecting the opinions of people who thought Tavaris Jackson was a starting quarterback in the National Football League. I am only half kidding. :o)
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
Because this is the Gabbert thread, doesn't anybody else remember that the consensus on him when he declared last year was "he should have gone back to school for another year"?

Why can't we just count this as a sort of "redshirt year" and just wait to see if he actually can play? It's not like this "no offseason" thing is really all that easy on the rookie signal callers.
It was a pretty big surprise. It happened shortly after Luck announced he was going back to Stanford, so the word was Gabbert saw that opportunity and seized it.
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:10 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I would be seeing ghosts in the pocket too if I had one of the worst offensive lines in the league and undoubtedly the worst wide receiver corps. So let's see, a rookie from a spread college system is unexpectedly thrust into action a year before he was supposed to be with no protection and no weapons to throw to. Oh, and they fire his coach halfway through the season too. And you wonder why the kid is struggling. Talk about Bad QB Handling 101.
No argument about the wide receivers, but that bit about the offensive line is unequivocally false. This is classic case of the quarterback making the o-line look worse than they are in pass protection.

Throw a QB in there who keeps his eye level downfield instead of looking at the rush, and you'll see the sack numbers drop.

And, as many have said, these are issues that were evident in his college tape. This is an ingrained playing style for him that goes back years; it will be incredibly difficult to break those habits.
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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I don't understand this and it always frustrates me ...

Scott, in your last mock, you gave the Bills (in the early 20s at the time) Riley Reiff. Now, at #13, you give the Bills Riley Reiff. Shouldn't moving up 10 picks change the player? This always frustrates me ... has Reiff's stock gone up as well since your last mock, if he's worth #13 how did he last till the early 20's in the last mock?

I don't hate the pick, I just get frustrated when a team is given the same player in every mock no matter where they are picking. I remember two years ago you gave the Bills Bryan Bulaga no matter where they were projected to pick, from the mid 20's all the way up to #9 (we started off 5-1 that year and collapsed, very similar to this year).

When the Bills don't win another game this year (more than likely) and we end up picking #7, are we still going to be projected to take Reiff?
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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not a fan of zeitler in round one at all....give me mike adams there
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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I like the choice of a WR for the Houston Texans but not the player he will not test out good because he isn't in shape and is slow. I think that Kendall Wright makes more since or maybe even Tommy Streeter who is going to blow it out during his workout with his size & speed will be unmatched.
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Bills need to draft all D again. Bell just got back to playing after getting hurt a while ago and he is always hurt it seems like. We have our future RT in Harrison our 4th R pick last yr. We need pass rush or if RGIII is there we will be all over him imo.
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Old 12-12-2011, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by essential View Post
I don't understand this and it always frustrates me ...

Scott, in your last mock, you gave the Bills (in the early 20s at the time) Riley Reiff. Now, at #13, you give the Bills Riley Reiff. Shouldn't moving up 10 picks change the player? This always frustrates me ... has Reiff's stock gone up as well since your last mock, if he's worth #13 how did he last till the early 20's in the last mock?

I don't hate the pick, I just get frustrated when a team is given the same player in every mock no matter where they are picking. I remember two years ago you gave the Bills Bryan Bulaga no matter where they were projected to pick, from the mid 20's all the way up to #9 (we started off 5-1 that year and collapsed, very similar to this year).

When the Bills don't win another game this year (more than likely) and we end up picking #7, are we still going to be projected to take Reiff?
Reiff has moved up a bit as well, still fits.
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Old 12-12-2011, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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**** everything about Landry Jones. In a draft where I'm enamored with the top three QBs, of course the Seahawks will win enough games to be out of range for all of them.

The case against mocking Jones to Seattle: They didn't 'reach' for a QB last year, and by all accounts, Jones has not looked like a first round pick this season. The Hawks could have said, 'we need a QB - no ifs ands or buts' and taken Dalton (who they actually liked), but they decided against it. In other words, they aren't going to take a QB unless they really believe in him, despite the fact that it looks like they are only ONE quarterback away from being real contenders. And at this point, why would anyone think they'd believe in Jones?

It's possible they will like him, but I don't see Carroll making a panic move and taking Jones just because he's the top rated passer left on Mel's board in the middle of round one. I trust the scouting will have a better read on the player, and realize that he's not who they should give the keys to the franchise to. Maybe I'm wrong, and they will. Which would suck.

DE like Ingram or Mercilus might be the pick instead. Maybe CB Jonathan Banks of Mississippi State.
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Believe me, I knew having Burfict in the Top 10 was going to be a controversial projection. I am sure we will talk about it extensively on the podcast on Tuesday, but here is a quick synopsis on my feelings.

Burfict is a potentially elite talent at the inside linebacker position. More talented than Rolando McClain (#8 overall in 2010) and probably the best since Patrick Willis. Is he immature? Yes. Does he need to be coached up and learn to control his emotions? Absolutely. However, as I've said all along I would rather have to pull the reins because a guy is too aggressive than the other way around. It's not like Burfict is necessarily a bad person, he just let's his emotions get out of control. Ndamukong Suh might be the dirtiest player in the league and I am pretty sure every team in the league would love to have him on their roster. The other factor is that at this point in the process I can't really speak to Burfict's character. I know what I've seen on film, but I haven't talked to him or anyone who has. If once Burfict has some interviews with teams and I start getting bad reports about his character then I will probably start factoring that into the equation more but at this point I have no reason to believe there are any issues serious enough to torpedo his grade.

As I mentioned in the analysis of the mock, I fully understand Burfict is a reach as sixth overall. However, I legitimately think he is a top ten talent who has a shot to go in the top dozen picks to fifteen picks or so. Also, what would be a better fit for the Eagles?
Unless a LB runs a 4.4 like Willis most of the time he is not worth a top pick. I just can't help but think about Aaron Curry and how everyone loved him and he busted, hard. If Burfict is the exception to this rule he is going to have a make a real strong argument for it.

If the Eagles are dead set on drafting a LB they are much better off trading down, especially if a team wanted RGII there, and getting Kuechly or Teo.
Even if they can't trade down I still think they would be better off taking a pair of LBs in rds 2 and 3. Mid rd LBs have historically played well, Trotter was drafted in the 3rd rd.
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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I have RGIII ahead of Barkley personally, but I'd take either in the top 10 if I needed a QB. Both are better prospects coming out than Gabbert was (as is Landry Jones)

I'm curious why you think RGIII would need an abnormal amount of development, however. He has a ton of experience in college and is a very accurate passer. People are mistaken if they think he just gets by on freaky athletic ability.
Landry Jones is not better than Gabbert. He has the same issues, plus other issues, and far less physical tools and raw talent.

I agree with most of the ready of your post, though.

RG3 would need more development time because he's black. There...saved everyone the trouble.
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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I love Dontari Poe. He is a stud with a good understanding of football. Just not a frakishly big guy. Has some nuances that usually take guys years to develop like a swim move, ability to bull and read while disengaging. He could make that front line so much better opening things up inside for the ILBs to make unobstructed tackles.

The biggest thing with Dontari is that he can play three downs, he is a pretty good pass rusher for his size so he would not just be relegated to a 2 down type.

I ont see any ILB's or linemen available at the time so I go with best player that fits an immediate need, POE fits the bill

A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I agree. I'd prefer the Chiefs move up and get one of the top rated QBs. But I don't see this team doing that. NT is a serious issue. I know we drafted Jerrell Powe last season but he's only suited up once all season so far. They've instead opted to suit up Ammon Gordon (who has shown well at times) but who is a journeyman at best. So I have serious questions as to Jerrell Powe's long term prospect.

I really think our defense is a dominating NT away from pretty much being solid all around.

However, if we do go with Dontari Poe in the first round, Foles and an offensive tackle like Datko better be targets in the next two rounds. The first 3 rounds of my Chiefs mock right now are:

1. Poe
2. Foles
3. Datko
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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I have a hard time respecting the opinions of people who thought Tavaris Jackson was a starting quarterback in the National Football League. I am only half kidding. :o)
I won't lie and pretend this wasn't still in the back of my mind as I made my previous post. I do, however, think there's a difference in taking a flyer on a relatively low-priced vet who might (...doesn't) have have some upside and a history with your new, highly-priced FA wideout rather than reaching for a QB in the draft. We really needed a QB, but there just weren't a lot of options last year, and frankly, I'm glad we didn't reach for someone or overpay for Kolb.

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The case against mocking Jones to Seattle: They didn't 'reach' for a QB last year, and by all accounts, Jones has not looked like a first round pick this season. The Hawks could have said, 'we need a QB - no ifs ands or buts' and taken Dalton (who they actually liked), but they decided against it. In other words, they aren't going to take a QB unless they really believe in him, despite the fact that it looks like they are only ONE quarterback away from being real contenders. And at this point, why would anyone think they'd believe in Jones?

It's possible they will like him, but I don't see Carroll making a panic move and taking Jones just because he's the top rated passer left on Mel's board in the middle of round one. I trust the scouting will have a better read on the player, and realize that he's not who they should give the keys to the franchise to. Maybe I'm wrong, and they will. Which would suck.

DE like Ingram or Mercilus might be the pick instead. Maybe CB Jonathan Banks of Mississippi State.
Bold=my sentiment exactly. And I'm also thinking defense if there's not a QB they really like in their first spot. Might not make sense intuitively, since we've been a better defensive team than offensive team, but Ingram's a guy who's caught my attention a little bit. Not quite sure he's a legitimate first-rounder, but is a guy who seems like he might fit Carroll's schemes pretty well and make some plays. I'm definitely a BPA guy at heart, though. We still need some speed on our offense, too, but there'll be chances to address that in rounds 2 and 3. What do Seahawks fans think of drafting Jeff Demps? Normally I'm not one to draft based on a 40 time, but our offense has been so dull and slow for awhile, I'm pretty close to just thinking, "to hell with it," rolling the dice, and taking the guy who runs a 4.2 on the second day. For everyone trying to compare LaMichael James to Darren Sproles, I think Jeff Demps fits that role better. Built thicker and runs faster than James.

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Old 12-12-2011, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Landry Jones is not better than Gabbert. He has the same issues, plus other issues, and far less physical tools and raw talent.

I agree with most of the ready of your post, though.

RG3 would need more development time because he's black. There...saved everyone the trouble.
I've always been really low on Gabbert. If we were to combine both this years' class and last years' class I'd probably rank them:

1) Luck (#1 pick)
2) Newton (top 3 pick)
3) RGIII (top 10 pick)
4) Barkley (top 10 pick)
5) Jones (late 1st)
6) Gabbert (late 1st/early 2nd)
7) Dalton (late 1st/early 2nd)
8) Ponder (early 2nd)
9) Kirk Cousins (2nd/3rd)
10) Kaepernick (3rd)
11) Nick Folk (3rd)
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand this and it always frustrates me ...

Scott, in your last mock, you gave the Bills (in the early 20s at the time) Riley Reiff. Now, at #13, you give the Bills Riley Reiff. Shouldn't moving up 10 picks change the player? This always frustrates me ... has Reiff's stock gone up as well since your last mock, if he's worth #13 how did he last till the early 20's in the last mock?

I don't hate the pick, I just get frustrated when a team is given the same player in every mock no matter where they are picking. I remember two years ago you gave the Bills Bryan Bulaga no matter where they were projected to pick, from the mid 20's all the way up to #9 (we started off 5-1 that year and collapsed, very similar to this year).

When the Bills don't win another game this year (more than likely) and we end up picking #7, are we still going to be projected to take Reiff?
Reiff had a terrific season and has indeed moved up draft boards. In fact, Reiff has leap-frogged Jonathan Martin in the eyes of many. Top 10 isn't even out of the question. It's merely a coincidence that Reiff's stock and the Bills spot in the draft order have ascended together.
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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They didn't 'reach' for a QB last year... The Hawks could have said, 'we need a QB - no ifs ands or buts' and taken Dalton (who they actually liked), but they decided against it.
And how did that work out? :o)
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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What hurts Gabbert is even when he does have time, he plays rushed and frantic and he looked the EXACT same at Mizzou.

He may never improve in that aspect of the game, feeling confident in the pocket, but I just can't see a GM dumping a top 10 pick after his rookie year.
I agree, the team will stick with Gabbert for at least 2 more seasons before giving him the hook if he doesn't improve significantly.
Rookies develop at different rates, it took Eli 4 seasons to break out and Alex Smith even longer.
Not saying Gabbert will break through but he is going to get a long chance to come through. probably at least 3 years including this season.
The team that drafted him is really starting from scratch, so it should come as no surprise that he will develop really slowly.
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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Unless a LB runs a 4.4 like Willis most of the time he is not worth a top pick. I just can't help but think about Aaron Curry and how everyone loved him and he busted, hard. If Burfict is the exception to this rule he is going to have a make a real strong argument for it.

If the Eagles are dead set on drafting a LB they are much better off trading down, especially if a team wanted RGII there, and getting Kuechly or Teo.
Even if they can't trade down I still think they would be better off taking a pair of LBs in rds 2 and 3. Mid rd LBs have historically played well, Trotter was drafted in the 3rd rd.
Curry and Burfict aren't even close to the same prospects...

Cury was supposedly one of the safest picks in the draft and was a 4-3 OLB, Burfict is extremely talented but also has an extremely high ceiling as well as a chance to bust and is more of a 3-4 ILB type.

Also: T'eo is going back to school meaning there is less of a chance of getting one later so this will indefinitely push the other two's stock up as a team trading back or failing to trade up may miss out.

Finally... while you aren't wrong about the mid round backers, your also not right... players from all rounds of the draft at all positions have a chance to turn out... naming one guy does not prove your point...

Traditionally ILB are not valued as high picks and ones can be found later in the draft for a cheaper cost, however this does not mean you should pass on a top talent if he is available.
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:33 AM    (permalink
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I guess I like the Vikings pick. Christ, I wish we had five first round picks just so we could use all of them on a brand new offensive line.
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:48 AM    (permalink
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Still overrating Poe, I see. Any team that drafts him before the third round won't see a starter before his third year. Kid is raw and has a LOT of work to do.
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:50 AM    (permalink
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That is the PERFECT Phins pick! Nice job Scott! Love me some RGIII.
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