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Old 12-19-2011, 06:24 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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Originally Posted by descendency View Post
Except lots of QBs didn't play in pro-style offenses, didn't **** the bed every time someone grazes their jersey in the pocket, and didn't fail to produce in a passer friendly offense in college.

This guy is doing exactly what he did at Missouri: suck.
With other positions, I can understand thinking a player will be better in the NFL than he is in college, but you just don't draft scared-looking QBs and expect that to improve in the NFL through...what, coaching? The whole problem is that his nerves are overriding his (presumably) rational thought processes.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:31 AM    (permalink
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With other positions, I can understand thinking a player will be better in the NFL than he is in college, but you just don't draft scared-looking QBs and expect that to improve in the NFL through...what, coaching? The whole problem is that his nerves are overriding his (presumably) rational thought processes.
Actually the "rational thought processes" are to avoid contact with large men who have the intentions of harming you. So what you're looking for is the opposite. Override rational thought processes by standing there and not fleeing. I think Gabbert can do that fine. There is a fine line between bravery and stupidity. About half the league's Qbs are out of action, and the rest of them hobbling around like prematurely old men (Roethlisberger tonight). The guy isn't even 30 years old and he looks 60. So, I'll go with Gabbert being overly cautious and gradually working his way to calm in the pocket rather than the other way round. Once his protection improves, and once his receivers improve, he will be fine.

His numbers are about average for a rookie Qb starter over the past 10 years. Average is 55% compl rate, 11 Tds, 13 Int, 66 passer rating. Gabbert is at 51%, 11 Tds, 10 Int, 66 passer rating. Next week he becomes the youngest quarterback ever to make his 13th start, I believe. He has been second youngest to Bledsoe awhile, but Bledsoe only made 12 rookie starts. BTW, Drew completed 49% of his passes and had a 65 passer rating as a rookie, slightly worse than Gabbert at the moment.

In the Thursday game, the team had 27 players on IR, and were playing their third game in 11 days, at the home of a hot playoff bound team. Most of their receivers were on other teams practice squads or sitting at home just a couple of weeks ago. Chastin West, Taylor Price, Colin Cloherty. The guys who have been around, Lewis and Dillard, were the worst offender on the field. Glaring drops, and bobbling a ball into an interception. That is the way it has been all year for Gabbert. Ask any Jag fan who has watched the games.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:45 AM    (permalink
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Actually the "rational thought processes" are to avoid contact with large men who have the intentions of harming you. So what you're looking for is the opposite.
Nope. The rational thought process would be to understand that hanging in the pocket and ignoring the rush is the more effective way to win the game. Welcome back, 'Natch.

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There is a fine line between bravery and stupidity. About half the league's Qbs are out of action, and the rest of them hobbling around like prematurely old men (Roethlisberger tonight). The guy isn't even 30 years old and he looks 60. So, I'll go with Gabbert being overly cautious and gradually working his way to calm in the pocket rather than the other way round. Once his protection improves, and once his receivers improve, he will be fine.
I'm sure that'll fly with Jacksonville fans. We LOVE you Blaine! Just don't get hurt out there! It's so dangewous.

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His numbers are about average for a rookie Qb starter over the past 10 years. Average is 55% compl rate, 11 Tds, 13 Int, 66 passer rating. Gabbert is at 51%, 11 Tds, 10 Int, 66 passer rating. Next week he becomes the youngest quarterback ever to make his 13th start, I believe. He has been second youngest to Bledsoe awhile, but Bledsoe only made 12 rookie starts. BTW, Drew completed 49% of his passes and had a 65 passer rating as a rookie, slightly worse than Gabbert at the moment.
Averages smaverages. He blows. And enough of the age BS. It's about playing experience, not length of time removed from exiting his mother's vagina.

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In the Thursday game, the team had 27 players on IR,
But not ol' Blaine, THANK GOD, because he knows how dangerous football is and takes every precaution to avoid contact.

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and were playing their third game in 11 days, at the home of a hot playoff bound team. Most of their receivers were on other teams practice squads or sitting at home just a couple of weeks ago. Chastin West, Taylor Price, Colin Cloherty. The guys who have been around, Lewis and Dillard, were the worst offender on the field. Glaring drops, and bobbling a ball into an interception. That is the way it has been all year for Gabbert. Ask any Jag fan who has watched the games.
And so Gabbert's just like, "Why try? I'm just going to try not to get hit. They're just going to drop it if I throw it to them, so I might as well just fall down. Or run for the sideline."
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:30 AM    (permalink
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Actually the "rational thought processes" are to avoid contact with large men who have the intentions of harming you. So what you're looking for is the opposite. Override rational thought processes by standing there and not fleeing. I think Gabbert can do that fine. There is a fine line between bravery and stupidity. About half the league's Qbs are out of action, and the rest of them hobbling around like prematurely old men (Roethlisberger tonight). The guy isn't even 30 years old and he looks 60. So, I'll go with Gabbert being overly cautious and gradually working his way to calm in the pocket rather than the other way round. Once his protection improves, and once his receivers improve, he will be fine.

His numbers are about average for a rookie Qb starter over the past 10 years. Average is 55% compl rate, 11 Tds, 13 Int, 66 passer rating. Gabbert is at 51%, 11 Tds, 10 Int, 66 passer rating. Next week he becomes the youngest quarterback ever to make his 13th start, I believe. He has been second youngest to Bledsoe awhile, but Bledsoe only made 12 rookie starts. BTW, Drew completed 49% of his passes and had a 65 passer rating as a rookie, slightly worse than Gabbert at the moment.

In the Thursday game, the team had 27 players on IR, and were playing their third game in 11 days, at the home of a hot playoff bound team. Most of their receivers were on other teams practice squads or sitting at home just a couple of weeks ago. Chastin West, Taylor Price, Colin Cloherty. The guys who have been around, Lewis and Dillard, were the worst offender on the field. Glaring drops, and bobbling a ball into an interception. That is the way it has been all year for Gabbert. Ask any Jag fan who has watched the games.
Oh stop with this BS defending your creepy man-crush. I've watched every game as they happened and watched them all again on DVR just to see what I may've missed and Gabbert has been a bag of hot garbage. I've seen the drops and the lapses in protection, BUT, I've also seen Gabbert violently crapping his pants with a perfectly clean pocket and running into a damn sack instead of going through his goddamn progressions or stepping up into the pocket, getting rid of the ball, and throwing passes to wide open receivers either at their ankles or 5 feet over their heads.

I said over and over again that I wanted Locker back before the Draft, and so far, Blaine's done nothing to change my mind at all.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:55 AM    (permalink
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Actually the "rational thought processes" are to avoid contact with large men who have the intentions of harming you. So what you're looking for is the opposite. Override rational thought processes by standing there and not fleeing. I think Gabbert can do that fine. There is a fine line between bravery and stupidity. About half the league's Qbs are out of action, and the rest of them hobbling around like prematurely old men (Roethlisberger tonight). The guy isn't even 30 years old and he looks 60. So, I'll go with Gabbert being overly cautious and gradually working his way to calm in the pocket rather than the other way round. Once his protection improves, and once his receivers improve, he will be fine.
No. Just no.

That might be the ďrational thought processĒ of some quarterbacks, but I guarantee it isnít the kind of thought process found in perennial Pro Bowlers and proven winners. When the defense blitzes, it means the offense has a mismatch somewhere on the field, meaning the quarterback might have to nut up and eat a good hit for the team in order to make a throw and move the chains. Look at the elite quarterbacks in the NFL. All of them are willing to stand in the pocket and get rocked if it advances the offense. All of them. Itís a part of the position. Plus, I can almost guarantee you that his teammates, especially those on the defensive side of the ball, lose respect for him when he shrinks in the shadow of a defender for fear of contact. Football players are a breed that prides themselves on toughness. Theyíre not about to follow someone who they feel doesnít have it.

And it isnít like Gabbert is just struggling to adapt to the speed of the NFL. Part of the problem is that he never showed a semblance of pocket presence at Missouri. If he had college tape of him deftly manipulating the pocket, I would be more inclined to dismiss his current issues as rookie growing pains. But Gabbert doesnít. He even panicked in the face of pressure in the Big XII. I mean, weíre talking about a quarterback here with a history of creating pressure that isnít there. Even though elite signal-callers are willing to take that hit for the team, it doesnít often come to that because theyíre adept at operating under duress. Gabbert isnít. He freezes in the pocket when he reads blitz and melts at the slightest inclination of heat.

Also, his supporting cast is a two-way street. Sure, Jacksonvilleís offense isnít the most talented group ever assembled. That much is certainly obvious. But Gabbert isnít doing much to make them better either. I donít care what kind of offensive line a team trots out there, if a quarterback canít work in a muddied pocket, a unit with five All-Pros wouldnít suffice. Maintaining a clean pocket is an impossibly difficult task. Given enough time, pass rushers will overwhelm offensive linemen and put the quarterback on the ground. Itís a cold, hard fact in the NFL. No matter how poor his protection has been, Gabbert doesnít help things by fidgeting and holding onto the ball. He needs to go through his progressions faster and his internal clock needs to speed up. One second, two seconds, boom. At that point, a decision needs to be made, whether itís hitting a check-down option or sending the ball into the second row of the stands. Along those lines, Gabbert waits for his receivers to gain separation. Heís looking for collegiate windows still and throwing to stationary targets. In the NFL, quarterbacks need to grow accustomed to tighter windows and throwing with anticipation.

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His numbers are about average for a rookie Qb starter over the past 10 years. Average is 55% compl rate, 11 Tds, 13 Int, 66 passer rating. Gabbert is at 51%, 11 Tds, 10 Int, 66 passer rating. Next week he becomes the youngest quarterback ever to make his 13th start, I believe. He has been second youngest to Bledsoe awhile, but Bledsoe only made 12 rookie starts. BTW, Drew completed 49% of his passes and had a 65 passer rating as a rookie, slightly worse than Gabbert at the moment.
Iíve heard this defense used for Gabbert (and Tebow, for that matter) before. Citing historic examples of comparable statistics from rookie campaigns. Thereís a reason it falls short though. Statistics donít transcend eras in football. Passers like John Elway, Troy Aikman, and Drew Bledsoe entered the league before the crackdown on illegal contact, defensive holding, and the strict enforcing of pass interference rules. The modern NFL is nauseatingly friendly to passing games nowadays. And Gabbert has only managed to match their era-capped production. Not exceed it.

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In the Thursday game, the team had 27 players on IR, and were playing their third game in 11 days, at the home of a hot playoff bound team. Most of their receivers were on other teams practice squads or sitting at home just a couple of weeks ago. Chastin West, Taylor Price, Colin Cloherty. The guys who have been around, Lewis and Dillard, were the worst offender on the field. Glaring drops, and bobbling a ball into an interception. That is the way it has been all year for Gabbert. Ask any Jag fan who has watched the games.
Iím not a Jaguars fan, but Iíve still seen quite a bit of Gabbert. What I see when I evaluate his game is a practice quarterback. Put him in shorts and run him through passing drills and heíll look good. Put him in a simulated environment and heíll look good. Put him in a perfect pocket with a receiver that consistently wins his individual match-up and heíll look good. But put him in the phone booth of a crowded pocket with a receiver that wonít dominate his individual match-up and heíll flounder.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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I am a Jags fan and watched most snaps this year. Gabbert really didnt stand a chance this year. He was supposed to sit and watch but due to Garrard injury/cut he was forced into the starting role. he's definatley not ready for the NFL and it shows. His pocket presence is really off but that can be fixed. The WR are just bad and getting worse as the year goes on due to injuries. The O-Line play has been spotty so he really doesnt have much time anyway. He gets rushed on most of his drop backs, which is a big reason for him feeling preasure that just isnt there. Add the fact that his pro bowl TE developed a bad case of the drops.

When he does have time and does step up in the pocket you can see his NFL caliber arm. He just needs a few playmakers around him to help him out besides MJD. Right now he's playing not to make a mistake and just needs to let loose and let the game come to him. All that being said I am a little concerned he might not bounce back from being thrown in to early.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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I cannot believe that so much time is spent on Gabbert. Rating a rookie QB in his 1st season is just a complete waste of time. many, many QB's have entered the NFL and taken 3 years to emerge and went on to have great careers. Many QB's enter the league today as juniors and are pretty raw in their fundamentals and need a lot of seasoning to put their game together.

Gabbert is the youngest QB in the NFL and anybody who expected him to blossom as a rookie just doesn't understand football.
Gabbert may flop or he may succeed but we won't know that for a couple of more seasons.

What separated Gabbert from Locker, Ponder and Dalton, they were all senior QB's when they entered the NFL, Gabbert is a junior and a very young one at that, I doubt Jacksonville will give up on him after this season. When you draft a junior QB, sometimes you have to take your lumps till he adjusts to pro ball and learns his trade.

I guess all the QB predictors who failed miserably with Newton, need something to hang their hat on and Gabbert seems like a good candidate, but in 2 more seasons they may end up with just more egg on their face.
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Old 12-20-2011, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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I cannot believe that so much time is spent on Gabbert. Rating a rookie QB in his 1st season is just a complete waste of time. many, many QB's have entered the NFL and taken 3 years to emerge and went on to have great careers. Many QB's enter the league today as juniors and are pretty raw in their fundamentals and need a lot of seasoning to put their game together.

Gabbert is the youngest QB in the NFL and anybody who expected him to blossom as a rookie just doesn't understand football.
Gabbert may flop or he may succeed but we won't know that for a couple of more seasons.

What separated Gabbert from Locker, Ponder and Dalton, they were all senior QB's when they entered the NFL, Gabbert is a junior and a very young one at that, I doubt Jacksonville will give up on him after this season. When you draft a junior QB, sometimes you have to take your lumps till he adjusts to pro ball and learns his trade.

I guess all the QB predictors who failed miserably with Newton, need something to hang their hat on and Gabbert seems like a good candidate, but in 2 more seasons they may end up with just more egg on their face.
Because people who really saw him play in college saw right through his draft stock's meteoric rise once Andrew Luck decided to go back to school. He got pumped up because people were scared of putting Newton as their #1 quarterback. There's always that one QB prospect that teams fall in love with and kinda jumps out of nowhere (the JP Losmans and Jason Campbells), but they usually settle into the lower end of round one. However the **** people were thinking this was the best QB in this class...I'll never, ever understand.

I think it was EE who said in another thread...other than a strong arm, Gabbert has a check in every "bad QB" tendency and is the perfect "bad QB" prospect. Erratic accuracy, terrible fundamentals and footwork, plays scared, perceives pressure, is unable to work a pocket, and, overall, displays little to no feel for the "craft" part of playing quarterback. He's got a first rounder's skillset but plays like an UDFA.

As I said during the pre-draft process....if this guy is scared of Big XII defenses, how the **** is he going to react once NFL defenders are breathing down his neck? Well, we now have our answer, and it's not pretty. I'll make a not so bold prediction that his predecessor, Chase Daniels, will have a longer NFL career than Gabbert.

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Old 12-20-2011, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Gabbert doesn't like to get hit. Everyone knew that coming in. If it wasn't the case he probably would have been the first player off the board. But all of the prospects from the last draft had weaknesses. Newton is flat out bizarre, emotionally, and that price will have to be paid at some point. Locker isn't the brightest bulb on the tree, and his accuracy is poor. Ponder is full of himself, and leaves himself open to injury. Gabbert hates mistakes and plays overly cautiously to avoid them. I think it becomes a question of which flaw among the players seems least debilitating over the long haul, and the most likely to be dealt with satisfactorily.

What you guys call "scared" is common sense behavior in every other situation, pretty much. Live to fight another day if the odds are stacked against you. At the start of the season, Blaine wasn't showing much tendency to bail out early. That came with the drops and the sacks. He and Sam Bradford have the highest ratio for sacks per pass attempt in the league. Pretty much all of Gabbert's pass plays lately have been on third down. MJD gets at least a couple of cracks at getting the first down, then Blaine is put in an obvious passing situation with the worst set of receivers in memory, and a shaky O line.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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Gabbert is responsible for many of those sacks, for not recognizing the speed of the pressure coming at him, or his inability to slide in the pocket.

Sometimes yes pass rushers are on top of him at the top of his drop. But too often he's holding the ball too long.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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Gabbert is responsible for many of those sacks, for not recognizing the speed of the pressure coming at him, or his inability to slide in the pocket.

Sometimes yes pass rushers are on top of him at the top of his drop. But too often he's holding the ball too long.
I'm not trying to say Gabbert is perfect, just pointing out some reasons why he looks bad. Watching the game last night you saw two quarterbacks who take opposite approaches to achieve success. Roethlisberger stands in there until the last possible moment, and sometimes beyond, waiting for something to open up down the field. Alex Smith is more of a safety first guy. Quick short passes, taking what the defense gives him. Both styles work if the other pieces are in place.

Smith started out like crap in the league. He was young like Gabbert, but much worse in his rookie season. One Td (on the final game of the season) 11 Int. Passer rating of 40 (Aaron Rodgers had a passer rating of 39 the same year as a rookie, but hardly played). Alex was also the first overall draft pick, so his failures were magnified. In the right situation, as he appears to be now, he is more than adequate as an NFL QB.

Roethlisberger started out great guns, but the beating has taken it's toll.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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Gabbert is responsible for many of those sacks, for not recognizing the speed of the pressure coming at him, or his inability to slide in the pocket.

Sometimes yes pass rushers are on top of him at the top of his drop. But too often he's holding the ball too long.
The sack against Suggs was literally one of the worst things I've ever seen. Monroe is rushing him up the field and Blaine literally just cowers and drifts into the sack.



I'm sorry, but when you do **** like that, I have no hope for you. And these plays happen every...single...game.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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Here, despite having a perfectly clean pocket to step into, he scrambles to the right....right into a Lamarr Woodley sack.



This ball dies at a wide open Marcedes Lewis' feet because Blaine is too big of a ***** to step into his ******* throws.



I have no words.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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I have no words.
You have lots of words. If you examine every bit of film, there is no problem finding errors in any player. Different players do different things well, and different things poorly. Gabbert's weaknesses are well documented. Still he has managed to start 12 games this year, against the odds. His numbers are right on the average for rookie starters over the past ten years. With two games remaining. He has a better passer rating than any quarterback in the history of the league who started as a 21 year old.

Consider the situation around him. No real training camp, worst receiving corps in the league from the get go. No chance to work with the player who was supposed to be his safety valve, M. Lewis (missed all of pre season rehabbing), feuding coaches, G.M. cutting corners knowing the team was being sold, inordinate number of injuries, two different QB coaches already, (the current one being lame duck), sale of team, two coaches fired and not replaced (Del Rio, Cox), revolving door of wide receiver tryouts, current focus on getting Drew-Jones rushing title and All Pro status at all cost.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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You have lots of words. If you examine every bit of film, there is no problem finding errors in any player. Different players do different things well, and different things poorly. Gabbert's weaknesses are well documented. Still he has managed to start 12 games this year, against the odds. His numbers are right on the average for rookie starters over the past ten years. With two games remaining. He has a better passer rating than any quarterback in the history of the league who started as a 21 year old.

Consider the situation around him. No real training camp, worst receiving corps in the league from the get go. No chance to work with the player who was supposed to be his safety valve, M. Lewis (missed all of pre season rehabbing), feuding coaches, G.M. cutting corners knowing the team was being sold, inordinate number of injuries, two different QB coaches already, (the current one being lame duck), sale of team, two coaches fired and not replaced (Del Rio, Cox), revolving door of wide receiver tryouts, current focus on getting Drew-Jones rushing title and All Pro status at all cost.
Look, I understand that the problems with Jacksonville's offense are multi-layered and overlapping. Nobody understands that better than me, trust me.

As such, you still have to separate yourself from the narrative and isolate the individual player for evaluation. Is his situation really any worse than, say, Christian Ponder's?
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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oh, you did come back. this should be fun.
Back with the same irrational thinking too. High School break most likely.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Gabbert is solid. He will be fine in the league. Class act.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/a...litary-Parents
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Remember when Andrew Luck was lucky that he didn't declare in the same draft as Gabbert?

Good to see you again natural.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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Remember when Andrew Luck was lucky that he didn't declare in the same draft as Gabbert?

Good to see you again natural.
Well, Gabbert has a full year of NFL experience on Luck (and Griffin). They are all about the same age. Blaine has 7 mil in the bank, and has faced pretty much every obstacle an NFL Qb expects to encounter in his career already. He is just as postive and upbeat as the day he showed up to camp. Not bouncing between over the top celebration and marble mouthed misery like that dope Newton.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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natural, where did you go for 7 months? most trolls vanish but youve returned, many props to you.


im surprised you didnt just high tail it out of here, the pocket here is much worse for you than the ones gabbert keeps running out of. forced, but idc. ha
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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natural, where did you go for 7 months? most trolls vanish but youve returned, many props to you.


im surprised you didnt just high tail it out of here, the pocket here is much worse for you than the ones gabbert keeps running out of. forced, but idc. ha
As I recall back then, I was the only guy on the board defending Tim Tebow, and the only one who thought 2011 was a great draft class for QBs. How those arguments turning out? :)
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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I have no words.
I'm not sure what you're trying to argue in this one. Stepping up puts Lawrence Sidbury, who's clearly beaten his blocker to the inside, literally right in his face.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure what you're trying to argue in this one. Stepping up puts Lawrence Sidbury, who's clearly beaten his blocker to the inside, literally right in his face.
Eye level/staring at the rush/folding in the pocket.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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On Gabbert in the Chargers game:

Quote:
Tonight 169 of his 195 yards came on pass attempts of 5 yards or fewer and his longest completion traveled 7 yards in the air.
Let's look at the positives on Gabbert:

- Tall
- Decent Arm

And the negatives:

- No pocket presence
- Eyes on the pass rush at all times
- Inaccurate
- Won't step up in the pocket when there is one
- Afraid of getting hit
- Won't try to go downfield

I've gone out of my way to say it before: This guy is done as an NFL passer in 3 years.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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He put a 50 yard rope in Marcedes Lewis' hands that game, I think. If Lewis didn't run like an offensive tackle he would have taken it another 40. Marcedes mentioned at the press conference that Gabbert throws the hardest ball he has caught. "Cuts through the wind and tails downwards" were his words, when asked why he bobbled so many of Gabbert's passes. Last game he coughed one up that was in his hands for an interception.
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