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Old 12-26-2011, 04:50 PM    (permalink
TimmG6376
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"The best defense is a good offense"; this is the story of the 2011 Green Bay Packers. They can be run on but in all but one game this season the offense has put up enough points to take the opposition out of their gameplan.

I agree that it is unrealistic to expect someone to come out of nowhere (So'oto/Lattimore) to rescue the pass rush at this point. I liked that they got snaps, as to me that shows that Capers is getting fed up with the play he's getting out of Walden/Zombo. Perhaps this will mean they'll finally address this position in the offseason.

I severely underestimated the importance of Ryan Pickett. The DL wasn't great before, but these last two games without him have been atrocious. We need him for his run D and to help limit Raji's snaps.

I was supportive of the Hawk extension at the time but again I have to agree that it is looking like last season was more an aberration than him turning the corner. Francois/Smith should be pushing him for snaps, but I doubt the coaches will do it.

This is the result of relying on UDFA or street FAs at OLB and putting all the DE eggs in the Neal basket. Who knows if he was healthy maybe it is a different story, but the depth behind him was obviously misjudged. Waiting until the 7th round to draft a defensive lineman and completely ignoring OLB has proven to be a mistake.
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Old 12-26-2011, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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Did we give Hawk more money than Cullen Jenkins got?

Would this team be better defensively with Cullen than Hawk?
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Old 12-26-2011, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Man some of you guys are so hung up on the 'what ifs'

What if we didn't pay Hawk? So we'd keep Barnett who had been injury prone the last few seasons he was here?

What if we kept Jenkins? There's no denying his talent but again, his lengthy injury history and age made him a risky sign.

What about Kampman? Brandon Jackson?

Its a calculated risk of how guys will perform and you have to take the good with the bad.

In all honestly I think we actually do have a talented defense, but they just aren't playing up to their capabilities and aren't being put in position to succeed. We know they're our biggest liability but we knew that weeks ago - and we're 14-1.
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Old 12-26-2011, 08:14 PM    (permalink
J-Mike88
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Originally Posted by cvv84 View Post
I think we actually do have a talented defense, but they just aren't playing up to their capabilities and aren't being put in position to succeed.
Eric Walden
Frank Zombo
Vic So'oto
Jarius Wynn
CJ Wilson
Howard Green
Charlie Peprah

These guys are all important guys on this defense, and none of them are more than just "guys". They aren't talented... any team could have had any of them if they wanted them.

It's no wonder why you blame Capers for everything if you consider this defense talented.

There's Matthews and Woodson.
Tramon has been burnt a lot this year.
Raji is talented, but only with a good guy next to him like Jenkins.
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Old 12-26-2011, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Eric Walden
Frank Zombo
Vic So'oto
Jarius Wynn
CJ Wilson
Howard Green
Charlie Peprah

These guys are all important guys on this defense, and none of them are more than just "guys". They aren't talented... any team could have had any of them if they wanted them.

It's no wonder why you blame Capers for everything if you consider this defense talented.

There's Matthews and Woodson.
Tramon has been burnt a lot this year.
Raji is talented, but only with a good guy next to him like Jenkins.
You couldn't be more wrong - yet again.

Zombo and So'oto have rarely played this year. Both were depth to begin the year. Zombo was depth from last year.

Wynn is a situational guy. Wilson hasn't built on his solid season from a year ago.

Green again is a rotational guy while Peprah was thrust into action due to injuries.

Fact is guys like Pickett, Raji, Matthews, Hawk, Tramon, and Shields weren't/have not played up to the level that they were playing last season and we aren't running the same blitz packages either.
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:00 AM    (permalink
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Yep. The talent is there as evidenced by the amount of turnovers they force. This isn't like the Pats D that has little to nothing on the defensive side, the Packers actually have some top tier players in Woodson/Tramon/Raji/Clay Matthews etc

problem is quite a few of these guys just aren't having the same seasons they had last year. Wynn/Wilson haven't improved last year to next...in fact they regressed. Neal has been doing next to nothing but since he's missed all year and has admitted that his knee still hurts him I guess you can say that he isn't 100% and likely wont' be at all the rest of this season

Bishop is good at ILB, can't cover worth a damn but is stout vs the run. Seriously need another legit DE and OLB. Walden/So'oto/Lattimore/Zombo/Brad Jones....none of these guys are the answer. I mean, up front you have Pickett and Raji. Raji takes on double teams so he doesn't generate as much pressure and pickett obviously isn't going to bring any pressure. That leaves Wynn/Wilson/Neal as the main guys up front to get to the QB and they have failed horribly at it.
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Old 12-27-2011, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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Interesting that Zombo was a healthy scratch vs the Bears. I think they are trying to get So'oto and Lattimore some live action just in case they are forced into the lineup in the playoffs. I expect we'll see them get a lot of snaps in the Lions game.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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There is talent. The secondary is actually very talented despite their ranking. Obviously Clay is an All Pro.

The deficiencies are really at DL and OLB (excluding Clay).

Only Raji and Pickett are starter quality. Green, Wilson, Wynn are guys that should be rotating in to give the starters a breather not in the starting lineup on a regular basis. Jury is still out on Neal.

Same with Walden, Zombo, and Jones. All should be backups not starters. I'll give So'oto and Lattimore a break as they are rookies and not much outside of special teams contributions should be expected of them on a SB defending roster. The coaches obviously expected a step forward from either Walden or Zombo and haven't gotten it. Maybe you can blame injuries for Zombo's disappearance, but as I just mentioned he was a healthy scratch against Chicago in a game they needed to win to secure home field advantage.
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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If Lattimore and So'oto work hard this offseason and improve, I expect Zombo/Jones/Walden to be gone. Of those 3 maybe Zombo gets another chance, but I highly doubt it. I'm guessing OLB will be addressed in rounds 1-3 in the draft. I also think it might be addressed more than once. I guess only time will tell, but right now opposite Matthews Zombo/Jones/Walden are all disappointing.
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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If Lattimore and So'oto work hard this offseason and improve, I expect Zombo/Jones/Walden to be gone. Of those 3 maybe Zombo gets another chance, but I highly doubt it. I'm guessing OLB will be addressed in rounds 1-3 in the draft. I also think it might be addressed more than once. I guess only time will tell, but right now opposite Matthews Zombo/Jones/Walden are all disappointing.
I don't think all three will be gone. McCarthy values LBs and TEs for special teams. Depending on the draft one or two of those guys will probably be back. If I had to guess I'd say Zombo and Jones. Something in my gut is telling me they are losing faith in Walden. They keep pulling him in an attempt to light a fire under his ass and he isn't responding.
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