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Old 01-05-2012, 12:08 PM    (permalink
FootballGod
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Default Bacarri Rambo, S, Georgia

If Bacarri Rambo declares for the draft what round are we looking at? 2-3? I am really high on this kid and I think I would have to put him 2nd behind only Mark Barron in the safety ranks. What does everyone think about Rambo? I want his jersey just for the Rambo name plate!!!
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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I'd like to see him end up with the Bengals if he does go pro. I think he can be a success in the NFL. From what little I know he seems to have all the skills of a quality safety. He may never be an all time great but very servicable.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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His stock is on the rise, may be a potential late 2nd/3rd type prospect. Idk if he declares though...
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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His stock is on the rise, may be a potential late 2nd/3rd type prospect. Idk if he declares though...
That's ridiculous. The only strong safety to even hold a candle to him is Barron, and Rambo has far more potential than Barron ever will. He got a draft grade from the advisory board that said 3rd round. Whatever. This kid hits the combine and he's gonna blow everyone up. And his video speaks for itself. He's productive, fearless, smart, and has limitless potential. Someone always takes the mantle of first round safety...and I think this kid could do it.

He demolishes anyone that tries to catch a ball near him and he's a safety that can ACTUALLY catch. He should ignore that advisory letter and declare. He'll be drafted in the top 30.
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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That's ridiculous. The only strong safety to even hold a candle to him is Barron, and Rambo has far more potential than Barron ever will. He got a draft grade from the advisory board that said 3rd round. Whatever. This kid hits the combine and he's gonna blow everyone up. And his video speaks for itself. He's productive, fearless, smart, and has limitless potential. Someone always takes the mantle of first round safety...and I think this kid could do it.

He demolishes anyone that tries to catch a ball near him and he's a safety that can ACTUALLY catch. He should ignore that advisory letter and declare. He'll be drafted in the top 30.
The problem isn't ability, it's the position he plays. Strong Safety, especially now with the new rookie wage scale, is not a position that really fits a first round value very often. Elite FS can fit into the first for sure, but only room for elites now.

So, you shouldn't get so upset with a 3rd round grade on a very good strong safety. He's not elite, I mean I like what I saw of him, but given the position he plays, and his lack of elite status at this point, puts him into the late second early 3rd for me, and I think that grade is fair.
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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The problem isn't ability, it's the position he plays. Strong Safety, especially now with the new rookie wage scale, is not a position that really fits a first round value very often. Elite FS can fit into the first for sure, but only room for elites now.

So, you shouldn't get so upset with a 3rd round grade on a very good strong safety. He's not elite, I mean I like what I saw of him, but given the position he plays, and his lack of elite status at this point, puts him into the late second early 3rd for me, and I think that grade is fair.
That would be fine by me because the Bengals have a huge need at SS and I don't want to spend a first round pick on one. I would take Rambo at the end of round 2 in a heart beat.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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That would be fine by me because the Bengals have a huge need at SS and I don't want to spend a first round pick on one. I would take Rambo at the end of round 2 in a heart beat.
I would take him in Atlanta as well and see if we can move William Moore over to FS in our scheme anyway.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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The problem isn't ability, it's the position he plays. Strong Safety, especially now with the new rookie wage scale, is not a position that really fits a first round value very often. Elite FS can fit into the first for sure, but only room for elites now.

So, you shouldn't get so upset with a 3rd round grade on a very good strong safety. He's not elite, I mean I like what I saw of him, but given the position he plays, and his lack of elite status at this point, puts him into the late second early 3rd for me, and I think that grade is fair.
I guess my point is, its just a difference of opinion. I think he's elite. Somewhere between Quintin Mikell and Troy P.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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I guess my point is, its just a difference of opinion. I think he's elite. Somewhere between Quintin Mikell and Troy P.
Wow, that's high praise. I guess the point I'm making is that it's not that egregious for him to be a late 2nd early 3rd guy based on his position and his lack of actual production this point.

Talent and potential is a major issue with the draft. Sort of like I've heard about coaches telling players that their potential is going to get them fired. There's a reason guys like Victor Cruz and Marques Colston go undrafted. I don't know why, but it's still an inexact science =)
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Wow, that's high praise. I guess the point I'm making is that it's not that egregious for him to be a late 2nd early 3rd guy based on his position and his lack of actual production this point.

Talent and potential is a major issue with the draft. Sort of like I've heard about coaches telling players that their potential is going to get them fired. There's a reason guys like Victor Cruz and Marques Colston go undrafted. I don't know why, but it's still an inexact science =)
Very true. Isn't the safety position becoming more important in the league with the heightened emphasis on the passing game? I mean, look what happens to defenses when Troy Polamalu is out with injury. Look what happened to the Eagles defense when they sent Dawkins packing. The Colts after Sanders became injury prone.

I would make it a point as a GM to make sure there's at least one dynamic safety on the field at one or the other positions. Its the "X factor" to an offensive coordinator. If coaches and GMs haven't figured that out yet, they need to.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Very true. Isn't the safety position becoming more important in the league with the heightened emphasis on the passing game? I mean, look what happens to defenses when Troy Polamalu is out with injury. Look what happened to the Eagles defense when they sent Dawkins packing. The Colts after Sanders became injury prone.

I would make it a point as a GM to make sure there's at least one dynamic safety on the field at one or the other positions. Its the "X factor" to an offensive coordinator. If coaches and GMs haven't figured that out yet, they need to.
In my opinion yes, I want an Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu back there, but the real engine behind Polamalu is Ryan Clark saving his bacon consistently. I'm not bashing the guy, just saying. But yes, I would think it is, and I've thought that the Safety is the difference between a good and elite defense to be perfectly honest. Look at Denver, when they got Dawkins they went from meh to wow, and that was Dawkins way past his prime.

Look at Arizona, same deal, no way that defense is anything without Wilson back there.

But it seems that the league doesn't feel that way. It's only the guys who can really be playmakers back there, most recently it was Michael Huff who was drafted too high, and it just didn't work. Sort of like Taylor Mays, there aren't that many of those elite Safetys out there, that's what makes them valuable.

If you believe that Rambo is one of those guys, then you can take him early if you want, heck it happens every single year. I remember back when Ko Simpson was supposed to be some big deal coming out, that he was going to be a top 15 pick, slid down the draft boards, William Moore was supposed to be a top 15 pick then slid down boards throughout an injury plagued senior campaign. Same thing with a guy like Pat Watkins for example that went from a 2nd round pick for sure, to not getting selected til the 5th round and couldn't even get on the field on a poor Cowboy defense.

I think there's a reason a lot of these guys slide, and it's not always because they can't play, it's partially because it's hard to invest in a position like Saftey which historically isn't as physically demanding as the Corner position, or maybe finding that elite pass rush prospect, something like that. When I say it's not as physically demanding I don't mean that it's an easy position to play, but relative to corner, and the rare skillset you need to be a truly successful corner vs being a truly successful safety it's pretty big spread.

You can have a decent Safety who can protect that last line of defense just by taking good angles, but an average corner gets abused in the NFL. Sure, everyone wants Troy or Ed back there, but everyone wants Nnamdi and Jared Allen more.

Personally I want an elite safety and everyone else does too, but most schemes are built inside out or outside in, and very few can be built back to front, cause no matter how elite your cover guys are, they can't get the QB on the ground and end a play. Plus they can only cover for so long, there's only so much you can do, especially in today's version of the NFL.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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In my opinion yes, I want an Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu back there, but the real engine behind Polamalu is Ryan Clark saving his bacon consistently. I'm not bashing the guy, just saying. But yes, I would think it is, and I've thought that the Safety is the difference between a good and elite defense to be perfectly honest. Look at Denver, when they got Dawkins they went from meh to wow, and that was Dawkins way past his prime.

Look at Arizona, same deal, no way that defense is anything without Wilson back there.

But it seems that the league doesn't feel that way. It's only the guys who can really be playmakers back there, most recently it was Michael Huff who was drafted too high, and it just didn't work. Sort of like Taylor Mays, there aren't that many of those elite Safetys out there, that's what makes them valuable.

If you believe that Rambo is one of those guys, then you can take him early if you want, heck it happens every single year. I remember back when Ko Simpson was supposed to be some big deal coming out, that he was going to be a top 15 pick, slid down the draft boards, William Moore was supposed to be a top 15 pick then slid down boards throughout an injury plagued senior campaign. Same thing with a guy like Pat Watkins for example that went from a 2nd round pick for sure, to not getting selected til the 5th round and couldn't even get on the field on a poor Cowboy defense.

I think there's a reason a lot of these guys slide, and it's not always because they can't play, it's partially because it's hard to invest in a position like Saftey which historically isn't as physically demanding as the Corner position, or maybe finding that elite pass rush prospect, something like that. When I say it's not as physically demanding I don't mean that it's an easy position to play, but relative to corner, and the rare skillset you need to be a truly successful corner vs being a truly successful safety it's pretty big spread.

You can have a decent Safety who can protect that last line of defense just by taking good angles, but an average corner gets abused in the NFL. Sure, everyone wants Troy or Ed back there, but everyone wants Nnamdi and Jared Allen more.

Personally I want an elite safety and everyone else does too, but most schemes are built inside out or outside in, and very few can be built back to front, cause no matter how elite your cover guys are, they can't get the QB on the ground and end a play. Plus they can only cover for so long, there's only so much you can do, especially in today's version of the NFL.
I think you make a good point. And yeah, maybe I'm hopping on the Rambo bandwagon before the combine. I just feel if you're a team (picking at the end of the first round), you already have a solid core "inside out" and "outside in"...why not strengthen the secondary with a guy that can make OCs crap their pants? I get your point. And I get the league also doesn't see it my way. I just think if you have the opportunity to strengthen an already strong defense, and that guy is on your board, why not?

Eric Berry, when healthy, for example. If the Steelers, Packers, Baltimore or San Fran view him as worthy, he may very well be taken at the end of the first round.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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Rambo is the kind of prospect that is a perfect 2nd round draft pick that should start for a number of years. He has been productive in the sec with enough size and speed. He is a playmaker with no major red flags or issues and I think he will end up going pro.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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I think you make a good point. And yeah, maybe I'm hopping on the Rambo bandwagon before the combine. I just feel if you're a team (picking at the end of the first round), you already have a solid core "inside out" and "outside in"...why not strengthen the secondary with a guy that can make OCs crap their pants? I get your point. And I get the league also doesn't see it my way. I just think if you have the opportunity to strengthen an already strong defense, and that guy is on your board, why not?

Eric Berry, when healthy, for example. If the Steelers, Packers, Baltimore or San Fran view him as worthy, he may very well be taken at the end of the first round.
Completely agree, but when you get the rare elite one, you see how high a guy like Eric Berry gets picked. That's part of the problem, if Rambo is elite, then heck ya someone is going to snag him and get a nice value because of the position he plays and it being undervalued in the NFL.

I agree with you though, I want that elite safety on my team.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Rambo is the kind of prospect that is a perfect 2nd round draft pick that should start for a number of years. He has been productive in the sec with enough size and speed. He is a playmaker with no major red flags or issues and I think he will end up going to the Bengals.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Couldnt agree more
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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If he kicks ass at the combine, I wouldnt hate him with our 2nd 1st rounder.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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I love this time of year when the previously-underrated guys start coming out of the woodwork. Until this week I didn't know much about Bacarri Rambo or Fletcher Cox. Can't wait to see who pops up on my personal radar next.

As it is, Rambo seems like a good fit for the Colts at 2:1. We've needed a Bob Sanders replacement for a long time.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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He would be terrible for you.
Let it go.
Next.

(I made a Rambo thread like 2-3 weeks ago, y'all late to the party)
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Old 01-06-2012, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bengals78 View Post
Couldnt agree more
The bengals do like picking players from UGA so thats possible. Hows Clint Boling doing?
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Old 01-06-2012, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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He needs to get stronger.
The potential is there for sure. He just lacks the strength at the point of attack right now.

I wouldnt pass on DeCastro/Glenn because of him, but I certainly wouldnt spend a late pick on another guard.
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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Here's what I don't get. No one eligable, to my recollection, put up numbers comparable like Rambo did this year. I just don't see what he thinks a senior year would do for him. Its obvious he's a talent and a beast. Might as well just come out this year and get paid.

Tackles: 55
TFL: 1
Sacks: 0
Ints: 8
PD: 8

Compared to Mark Barron (Top ranked SS - 1st/2nd rounder)
Tackles: 64
TFL: 4
Sacks: 0
Ints: 2
PD: 5

I just don't get it. Bacarri is a much better athlete than Barron is. Barron's a great in the box safety, but I wouldn't trust him to cover my niece. Rambo is the best of both, the numbers prove it, AND he's younger. *headshake*
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bengals78 View Post
He needs to get stronger.
The potential is there for sure. He just lacks the strength at the point of attack right now.

I wouldnt pass on DeCastro/Glenn because of him, but I certainly wouldnt spend a late pick on another guard.
Depends on type of guard it is in my opinion. Boling looks like he has the potential to possibly start at LG which is the more finesse, pulling guard guy on the offense. We've always wanted a big tough road grader type RG and Boling will never be that guy.

Otis Hudson seems to be the developmental RG and Boling the devy LG.
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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In my opinion yes, I want an Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu back there, but the real engine behind Polamalu is Ryan Clark saving his bacon consistently. I'm not bashing the guy, just saying. But yes, I would think it is, and I've thought that the Safety is the difference between a good and elite defense to be perfectly honest. Look at Denver, when they got Dawkins they went from meh to wow, and that was Dawkins way past his prime.

Look at Arizona, same deal, no way that defense is anything without Wilson back there.

But it seems that the league doesn't feel that way. It's only the guys who can really be playmakers back there, most recently it was Michael Huff who was drafted too high, and it just didn't work. Sort of like Taylor Mays, there aren't that many of those elite Safetys out there, that's what makes them valuable.

If you believe that Rambo is one of those guys, then you can take him early if you want, heck it happens every single year. I remember back when Ko Simpson was supposed to be some big deal coming out, that he was going to be a top 15 pick, slid down the draft boards, William Moore was supposed to be a top 15 pick then slid down boards throughout an injury plagued senior campaign. Same thing with a guy like Pat Watkins for example that went from a 2nd round pick for sure, to not getting selected til the 5th round and couldn't even get on the field on a poor Cowboy defense.

I think there's a reason a lot of these guys slide, and it's not always because they can't play, it's partially because it's hard to invest in a position like Saftey which historically isn't as physically demanding as the Corner position, or maybe finding that elite pass rush prospect, something like that. When I say it's not as physically demanding I don't mean that it's an easy position to play, but relative to corner, and the rare skillset you need to be a truly successful corner vs being a truly successful safety it's pretty big spread.

You can have a decent Safety who can protect that last line of defense just by taking good angles, but an average corner gets abused in the NFL. Sure, everyone wants Troy or Ed back there, but everyone wants Nnamdi and Jared Allen more.

Personally I want an elite safety and everyone else does too, but most schemes are built inside out or outside in, and very few can be built back to front, cause no matter how elite your cover guys are, they can't get the QB on the ground and end a play. Plus they can only cover for so long, there's only so much you can do, especially in today's version of the NFL.

Good post with some interesting points. Personally, I agree with you that a big-time safety has huge value for a defense. I think a lot of teams realize that.

My opinion though is that safety is different from a lot of other defensive positions in the draft due to the skills required to excel at the position. You look at DE, DT, CB, etc. and those positions all require elite athleticism. You have to be big and fast on the D line. You have to be extremely fast and have incredible change of direction and hip turn to be an elite CB. However, to be an elite Safety, it seems like the most important things are intangibles. Anticipation. Ability to diagnose the play quickly. Intelligence to understand the scheme, etc. So its not like you just look at a guy who is a physical freak (Taylor Mays or Brandon Merriweather for example) and know for sure he'll be a great NFL safety.

So its just a real gamble because you never know whose game as a college safety will translate to the NFL and the physical attributes are a bit less important than most other positions on defense. Whereas every team can look at Patrick Peterson and know he's going to be a beast at CB. It's a lot harder to identify a guy like Kam Chancellor or Eric Weddle and if you look at the top young safeties in the game, they weren't all necessarily early draft guys with off the charts physical attributes.

Hopefully that argument makes sense....

As for Rambo specifically, I don't know if he has "it" or not. The fact that he made a lot of big plays in college though is a great indicator and in my opinion the one thing that has to be taken into huge account by drafters. Rambo seems to fit in that mold of Ed Reed where he just always seemed to be in the right place at the right time in college. He would be pretty high on my board if I was the Bengals for that 2nd 1st round pick, especially if I could get a #2 CB in free agency before the draft.
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