MLB Discussion Thread - Page 877

ATLDirtyBirds · 01-10-2012, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent

Bagwell and Biggio need to go in at the same time

As long as they can take Mr. Raines with them. His exclusion from the Hall is just laughable at this point.

Jughead10 · 01-10-2012, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLDirtyBirds

As long as they can take Mr. Raines with them. His exclusion from the Hall is just laughable at this point.

What's your argument for him?

Brodeur · 01-10-2012, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

What's your argument for him?

One of the greatest leadoff hitters of all time, 808 SBs, career .385 OBP, etc. I don't see how an overrated guy like Gwynn can get in just because he got a lot of hits, but Raines can't.

Jughead10 · 01-10-2012, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

One of the greatest leadoff hitters of all time, 808 SBs, career .385 OBP, etc. I don't see how an overrated guy like Gwynn can get in just because he got a lot of hits, but Raines can't.

Cause Tony Gwynn actually had a better OBP and hit like crazy. Had some gold gloves too. I just don't seem the slam dunk candidacy for Raines, that people always complain about. Raines numbers look better than they were. No one who ever watched the two play thought Raines was a better player.

Wootylicous · 01-10-2012, 04:25 PM

.385 OBP for Raines and .388 OBP for Gwynn...

Brodeur · 01-10-2012, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

Cause Tony Gwynn actually had a better OBP and hit like crazy. Had some gold gloves too. I just don't seem the slam dunk candidacy for Raines, that people always complain about. Raines numbers look better than they were. No one who ever watched the two play thought Raines was a better player.

Raines numbers look better than they were? I don't think that's possible.

Jughead10 · 01-10-2012, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooty Magic!

.385 OBP for Raines and .388 OBP for Gwynn...

But Gywnn hit for a higher average. OBP being equal the big difference in BA is a lot. A walk isn't always as good as a hit. Gwynn also won a few gold gloves.

Giantsfan1080 · 01-10-2012, 05:15 PM

WTF this was supposed to be Selig's last year and now he's getting an extension!!!!

yodapoop · 01-10-2012, 05:45 PM

I like that one!

DeepThreat · 01-10-2012, 06:39 PM

Little late here, but apparently C.J. is a ******* idiot when it comes to baseball. A career .295/.371/.444 shortstop who was elite defensively isn't worthy of the Hall of Fame? He played 19 seasons and average 15 HR and 28 SB a year. In his prime, Larkin routinely had OBPs around .400 and won the MVP in his second best year.

yo123 · 01-10-2012, 06:43 PM

Derek Jeter career OPS- .832
Barry Larkin career OPS- .815

Larkin blows him away defensively. I don't think anyone is questioning that Derek Jeter is a HOF'er, why are we questioning Larkin?

CJSchneider · 01-10-2012, 06:44 PM

Deep, I'd invite you to kiss my ass, but I'll pass out of fear that you may take me up on it and enjoy it. Larkin is getting in more because he was clean during the "roid - rage" era than his offensive abilities. Again, it's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Real Good for 19 years.

yo123 · 01-10-2012, 06:46 PM

You haven't even given a reason that he doesn't belong other than you thought he was really good and I don't even know why that's supposed to be a reason.

CJSchneider · 01-10-2012, 06:55 PM

Show me a category that he led the league in consistently for even a short period. His 95 MVP was theft from the likes of Bichette, Maddux or Piazza. He wasn't even the most offensively productive guy on his team (Reggie Sanders and Ron Gant). Was he the most offensively productive player at his position at a time when there wasn't a big push for big physical SS's, sure. was he great defensively, yes. In my opinion, does he belong in the Hall of Fame, no. 3 years ago half the writers agreed with me. The lack of candidates with a healthy moral fiber surely helped his approval percentage jump 30% in those 3 years.

Brodeur · 01-10-2012, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJSchneider

Show me a category that he led the league in consistently for even a short period. His 95 MVP was theft from the likes of Bichette, Maddux or Piazza. He wasn't even the most offensively productive guy on his team (Reggie Sanders and Ron Gant). Was he the most offensively productive player at his position at a time when there wasn't a big push for big physical SS's, sure. was he great defensively, yes. In my opinion, does he belong in the Hall of Fame, no. 3 years ago half the writers agreed with me. The lack of candidates with a healthy moral fiber surely helped his approval percentage jump 30% in those 3 years.

Bonds deserved it that year, but mentioning Bichette in that stadium when he had no idea what a walk was is just stupid. Larkin was the best SS in the NL for the 90s, and was an unheralded great player on that team. He was a hell of a lot better than Andre Dawson at least.

CJSchneider · 01-10-2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Bonds deserved it that year, but mentioning Bichette in that stadium when he had no idea what a walk was is just stupid. Larkin was the best SS in the NL for the 90s, and was an unheralded great player on that team. He was a hell of a lot better than Andre Dawson at least.

Maddux deserved it the most. Again, Dawson is another name in that pool that I personally am not 100% sure should be there. Hey, I mean, I will make money off of Larkin going in the Hall in regards to my memorabilia collection, but that doesn't mean he 100% belongs there.

Brodeur · 01-10-2012, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJSchneider

Maddux deserved it the most. Again, Dawson is another name in that pool that I personally am not 100% sure should be there. Hey, I mean, I will make money off of Larkin going in the Hall in regards to my memorabilia collection, but that doesn't mean he 100% belongs there.

Eh probably, I'd argue Bonds too but it could have gone either way. Larkin is better than so many shortstops in the hall, and he was an elite shortstop for the 90s in the NL which wasn't filled with the ridiculousness of the AL at the time.

Giantsfan1080 · 01-10-2012, 07:24 PM

I understand where CJ is coming from. He has higher standards for the HOF than us, that's all. Honestly when you think of Larkin he doesn't scream HOF'er like others do.

Jughead10 · 01-10-2012, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodeur

Eh probably, I'd argue Bonds too but it could have gone either way. Larkin is better than so many shortstops in the hall, and he was an elite shortstop for the 90s in the NL which wasn't filled with the ridiculousness of the AL at the time.

So we're going to reward him because SS was weak in the NL?

49erNation85 · 01-10-2012, 10:06 PM

Not sure if any one cares but Seattle Mariners singed Aaron Heilman

fenikz · 01-10-2012, 10:10 PM

Lol good luck I hope it's a minor league deal

Brodeur · 01-10-2012, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jughead10

So we're going to reward him because SS was weak in the NL?

I see you addressed the Jeter/Larkin comparison on the last page Jug.

Hines · 01-10-2012, 11:18 PM

Ryan Madson to the Reds.

Pat Sims 90 · 01-10-2012, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hines

Ryan Madson to the Reds.

Thank god i did not want to see Cordero back. Now if they could just find a OF.

comahan · 01-10-2012, 11:40 PM

A challenge to folks:

If the HOF was limited to 100 players maximum, with every new member meaning that someone has to be replaced, who would your 100 be?

Im making a list right now, and will be including active players and those not yet eligible who I believe should be in. It'll take a while, but anyone else interested in doing this? I think itd be interesting to look at.