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View Poll Results: Who's gonna be the best of these QB's when all is said and done?
Josh Freeman, Bucs 59 15.05%
Matthew Stafford, Lions 126 32.14%
Sam Bradford, Rams 76 19.39%
Mark Sanchez, Jets 19 4.85%
Joe Flacco, Ravens 33 8.42%
Matt Ryan, Falcons 79 20.15%
Voters: 392. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-04-2012, 04:34 PM    (permalink
Job Reborn
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Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
Peyton Manning threw 23 INTs in his 3rd year as a pro, just saying.
That was his 4th year, and his worst non-rookie season. I'm also pretty sure he didn't play the same "game manager" type game as Sanchez.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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You know, I'm getting pretty tired of Peyton's interception numbers being used to excuse every bad young QB.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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K, John Elway,Favre,Aikman Marino and countless other great QB's threw 20 INTs.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Complex View Post
K, John Elway,Favre,Aikman Marino and countless other great QB's threw 20 INTs.
And what does that have to do with any of these quarterbacks? If you want to make a legitimate and detailed comparison do so, but just bringing up interception totals is meaningless. Freeman, Sanchez, and even Bradford have little in common with those players.

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Old 01-04-2012, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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So who's arguing what here?

Is someone still making a case here for Sanchez or Flacco being a possible answer here?
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
So who's arguing what here?

Is someone still making a case here for Sanchez or Flacco being a possible answer here?
how do you have time to respond to a post when you're too busy making threads?

I kid. I kid.

Last edited by soybean : 01-04-2012 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Kris Jenkins[/quote
“Mark wants to be a leader but there’s a difference between wanting it and taking it,” Jenkins said. “He’s always trying to be a crowd pleaser. He’s always trying to be nice. He wants to be a leader but he won’t take it.”
Another Tom Condon hype job. I guess charisma only goes so far.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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“Mark wants to be a leader but there’s a difference between wanting it and taking it,” Jenkins said. “He’s always trying to be a crowd pleaser. He’s always trying to be nice. He wants to be a leader but he won’t take it.”
Another Tom Condon hype job. I guess charisma only goes so far.[/quote]
I would not listen to anything Jenkins says because he is one of those guys who may hold it against Sanchez for not taking the 09/10 Jets to a SB.

Damien Woody or LT saying something means more. They were more so around the team than Jenkins who was on the IR more than the team itself.
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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That was his 4th year, and his worst non-rookie season. I'm also pretty sure he didn't play the same "game manager" type game as Sanchez.
lol context on the internets...hilarious...
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-07-2012, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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Stafford and Ryan get their chances this weekend to step up to the big boys plate.... Flacco next weekend.

I like Matt Ryan's chances at New York, but isn't Ryan 0-2 so far in post-season? He loses this one, it starts to get very interesting for Matty Ice.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Pressure building on Ryan, Falcons

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/pos...ure-to-falcons
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“Not that much,’’ Ryan said. “I think the past doesn’t really make a difference. We had opportunities; we didn’t take advantage of those. What matters is we put ourselves in this position again and we have an opportunity to move forward. So I don’t worry about it too much. I kind of just focus on trying to prepare and play well this week and doing everything we can to take advantage of the opportunity that we have.”
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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If it weren't for his record and the fact that he's in the AFC championship game I think Flacco would and deservedly so be as criticized as Sanchez.

Their numbers are similar. Flacco has one more year under his belt. And Flacco arguably is more propped up by his team than Sanchez.

Now this isn't me defending Sanchez it's me saying Flacco is just as bad.

ps. Also I'd understand the frustration of the veteran players if Flacco doesn't win them a superbowl because he is by far the Ravens weakest link.
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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ps. Also I'd understand the frustration of the veteran players if Flacco doesn't win them a superbowl because he is by far the Ravens weakest link.
I think some of the players should appreciate that he has helped them get this far. I mean, Flacco isn't great, but he's not bad. I'd say he's decent, and without him the Ravens might not have made the playoffs four years in a row. If anything those players should be mad at Cam Cameron for always having the offense pass the ball.
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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If Stafford had a defense he'd still be playing right now. His 1 playoff game was a better performance then any of these guys have done in the playoffs.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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If it weren't for his record and the fact that he's in the AFC championship game I think Flacco would and deservedly so be as criticized as Sanchez.

Their numbers are similar. Flacco has one more year under his belt. And Flacco arguably is more propped up by his team than Sanchez.

Now this isn't me defending Sanchez it's me saying Flacco is just as bad.

ps. Also I'd understand the frustration of the veteran players if Flacco doesn't win them a superbowl because he is by far the Ravens weakest link.
Flacco is better than Sanchez and to suggest otherwise is laughable.

Not only is he statistically better but he's consistently put in similar situations (because they both have terrible coordinators) but Flacco comes through. He's performed in the playoffs, something Sanchez can only aspire to and doesn't need to be managed. The book is open for him to leave his mark on the game and he's trusted.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
Flacco is better than Sanchez and to suggest otherwise is laughable.

Not only is he statistically better ...
Actually statistically they were virtually identical this past season.

Sanchez: 3,474 yards, 26 TDs, 18 ints, 56.7 completion pct. 78.2 QB rating

Flacco: 3,610 yards 20 TDs, 12 ints, 57.6 completion pct. 80.9 QB rating

Sanchez also 6 rushing TDs while Flacco only had 1.

I don't think Sanchez is better than Flacco, but I do think Flacco sucks.


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Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
He's performed in the playoffs, something Sanchez can only aspire to and doesn't need to be managed.
Also, Mark Sanchez has been unquestionably better than Flacco in the playoffs, it's not even close really.

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Old 01-18-2012, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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Flacco is better than Sanchez and to suggest otherwise is laughable.

Not only is he statistically better but he's consistently put in similar situations (because they both have terrible coordinators) but Flacco comes through. He's performed in the playoffs, something Sanchez can only aspire to and doesn't need to be managed. The book is open for him to leave his mark on the game and he's trusted.
all you have said is a bunch of fluff though. there's no tangible evidence to support your claim.

Let's look at last post season, both qbs faced Pittsburgh Defense. Let's consider everything outside of the qbs equal.

Sanchez against Pittsburgh: 20/33 233 60.6% 7.06 avg. 2tds 0 ints
Flacco against Pittsburgh: 16/30 125 53.3% 4.17 avg. 1td 0 ints

Flacco is being lifted by his amazing defense, awesome running game.

People are being blinded because Flacco has an amazing arm.

Again, I'm not defending Sanchez but saying that Joe Flacco is at least on par with him if not maybe a LITTLE better.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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Flacco does suck... With the amount of 150-170 yard games this guy puts up, with his offense; it's amazing he doesn't get criticized more in the media. Finally, after a few years of no improvement, people are taking notice. He does have good games every once in a while, but so has Joe Webb, Sanchez, and most any other QB given enough starts (excluding Whitehurst or Palko).

I do think Sanchez sucks as well and if I had to take one of these guys, I guess I'll take Flacco because he's got a year more experience, but both these teams need to be looking for a new QB.

Matt Ryan is Matt Ryan; Good-great game manager, but I don't think he's got enough consistancy or is good enough to be warranted as a "Franchise" guy, or top 10 QB in the league. He can continue to improve though, and I would be less surprised if he proves me wrong than most other QBs.

Freeman and Bradford are both in intersting positions. After last year, everyone was on Freeman's nuts. I still wasn't sold; and am even less sold this year. Jury's still out on him, but I don't see him being a top 7-10 QB in the league either.

Bradford, only his second year; but arguable is more injury prone than Stafford, I would argue. You don't know if his shoulder can hold up for more than a year straight, but with Fisher, you can't count the kid out yet.

I think it's safe to say Sanchez is a bust/backup-to-journeyman, and that Flacco is considered around the same. I still think Flacco has better physical attributes (except accuracy), but Sanchez is a year younger (I think), at least experience wise.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Stafford is the only star QB (already is imo), while Freeman and Ryan the only other QB who remains on his team in 3-5 years. I think Freeman can reach Matt Ryan's plateua fairly easily, but I don't see either of them developing into a top 10 QB

Rodgers, Brees, Stafford, Brady, Healthy Manning, Romo, Healthy Vick, Newton, Eli Manning, Phil Rivers, Big Ben. That's my top 10-11 depending on health of Manning. I would also accept Schaub right with them or next in line. Cutler behind him, especially if Tice (new OC) gives him time and protection.

I think all the top QBs except Gabbert (bust imo) have a chance to develop into a top 10 guy, but by the looks of it, it will take some strong play. A lot of good QB play going on the in the league right now. (there's always been bad/terrible play)
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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Flacco sucks, I'm sorry but the guy sucks. Sanchez get so much hate and rightfully so, but the fact that Flacco gets a pass is very comical. Blindsite saying Sanchez hasnt performed in the playoffs, how do you figure? If you ask a lot of people they would say he played his better games in the playoffs as compared to the regular season. The guy made it to 2 AFC championship games in his first 2 years. You dont do that by mistake.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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Flacco has won a bunch of playoff games so the whole wins thing isn't really a differentiator. Though Sanchez has played well in a couple of playoff games and Flacco has sucked in pretty much every postseason game except for KC last year.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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Flacco puts up absolute clunkers out of nowhere more than any "franchise" QB I've ever seen.

LOL @ Sam Bradford.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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I am a Jet fan. I like Sanchez. I'm biased. But he's a good enough player that to call him a bad player is stupid. Calling him a backup is stupid. This is why.

The Jets scored 377 pts this year. That's 14th best in the NFL, 3rd in the division. They Jets allowed 363 pts this year, thats 20th in the NFL, 3rd in the division. By all means they are not a superstar team. There is nothing superstar about their defense. There is nothing superstar about their offense. They have aging players and holes on both sides of the field. Mark Sanchez had a lot of turnovers. Because of that, this team didn't go as far as it could have. But this team got as far as it did because of Sanchez, not because of the defense, not because of coaching, not because of anything else. This team didn't succeed in spite of sanchez, they succeed BECAUSE of him.

He is tied for 6th in the NFL in total touchdowns. Touchdowns are touchdowns. That's elite company. He's got as many rushing touchdowns as his running back. Sanchez wasn't the problem for the offense, he WAS the offense. The problem was Sanchez isn't elite. He was drafted high first round, his coach is boisterous, he plays in New York, and they're expected to contend for the super bowl. This is in part because of his play in the past. He was a quarterback on a team that went to two AFC champ games. This year he was expected to be a game manager but was anything but. He had to do more. He did. If sanchez didn't step up and score touchdowns, this team doesn't get 8 wins. They went as far as they did because of him, of his play, not because of the defense, not because of the run game, nor anything else.

If you want to label him a bust because all top 10 picks are supposed to be elite players, Peyton Manning type players.. fine. Sanchez isn't there. But quarterbacks don't win super bowls, teams win super bowls. He's good enough to build around and thats all that matters.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stl705 View Post
Flacco does suck... With the amount of 150-170 yard games this guy puts up, with his offense; it's amazing he doesn't get criticized more in the media. Finally, after a few years of no improvement, people are taking notice. He does have good games every once in a while, but so has Joe Webb, Sanchez, and most any other QB given enough starts (excluding Whitehurst or Palko).

I do think Sanchez sucks as well and if I had to take one of these guys, I guess I'll take Flacco because he's got a year more experience, but both these teams need to be looking for a new QB.

Matt Ryan is Matt Ryan; Good-great game manager, but I don't think he's got enough consistancy or is good enough to be warranted as a "Franchise" guy, or top 10 QB in the league. He can continue to improve though, and I would be less surprised if he proves me wrong than most other QBs.

Freeman and Bradford are both in intersting positions. After last year, everyone was on Freeman's nuts. I still wasn't sold; and am even less sold this year. Jury's still out on him, but I don't see him being a top 7-10 QB in the league either.

Bradford, only his second year; but arguable is more injury prone than Stafford, I would argue. You don't know if his shoulder can hold up for more than a year straight, but with Fisher, you can't count the kid out yet.

I think it's safe to say Sanchez is a bust/backup-to-journeyman, and that Flacco is considered around the same. I still think Flacco has better physical attributes (except accuracy), but Sanchez is a year younger (I think), at least experience wise.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Stafford is the only star QB (already is imo), while Freeman and Ryan the only other QB who remains on his team in 3-5 years. I think Freeman can reach Matt Ryan's plateua fairly easily, but I don't see either of them developing into a top 10 QB

Rodgers, Brees, Stafford, Brady, Healthy Manning, Romo, Healthy Vick, Newton, Eli Manning, Phil Rivers, Big Ben. That's my top 10-11 depending on health of Manning. I would also accept Schaub right with them or next in line. Cutler behind him, especially if Tice (new OC) gives him time and protection.

I think all the top QBs except Gabbert (bust imo) have a chance to develop into a top 10 guy, but by the looks of it, it will take some strong play. A lot of good QB play going on the in the league right now. (there's always been bad/terrible play)
What has Jeff Fisher done to develop a Franchise QB? He's a defensive minded head coach. That makes no sense.

I also hope he isn't in control because the WRs he gets for Bradford could be the same garbage he attempted to surround Vince Young with as well.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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I know there is a lot of homers when it comes to Freeman and I will admit to be one of them.

After a poor year, I still think it'd be foolish for any team to give up on him though and call him a bust.

Things against Freeman:
- He stared down his targets (Mainly Mike Williams and Kellen Winslow) a bit too much.
- Forced too many balls into tight coverage when WRs weren't open.
- Did not use his strength, meaning extending the play and using his feet. That was huge for him in 2010.

Freeman's defense:
- WRs were hardly ever open
- Offensive Staff was down right awful.
- DROPS! I can't tell you how many balls went through Winslows, Benn's and Williams hands and right into the defenders.
- Predictability on offense. Whenever Blount was in, Bucs ran the ball. He came out, Bucs threw it. ALso, several players of opposing defenses said the routes and formations were so predictable, they knew what was coming.

Again, not saying he's a top 10 QB, but I still think a full offseason with a reputable offensive staff and more help, Freeman can re-gain his 2010 form. His work ethic, smarts, and physical tools are everything you look for in a Franchise QB.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Greg Cosell was sticking up for Flacco today saying no wonder he doesnt have success with the 1960s offense and WRs who cant get open. Cam seriously needs to get out of here, Harbaugh is managing his young QB as bad as possible it is just sad.
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